Dickson > Dannen - Change My Mind

[NotJtS]

[golfnut69]

judging by the last two AD's, Rix Yard was a genius

[Show Me]

Dickson got us out of CUSA Dannen getting us back in.
End of Story.

[winwave]

Actually it was SC that got us out through his connections with the UCF President. Both completely sucked as AD's.

[nawlinspete]

Rix Yard ? He oversaw getting us out of the SEC for 'independence .'

[wave97]

judging by the last two AD's, Rix Yard was a genius

Back in the early to mid 1960's there was a plausible argument for becoming an independent in football and joining some regional conference for men's basketball & non-rev sports. Rix Yard had just arrived from Penn where the ivy league was in the process of de-emphasized football by limiting scholarships to financial need.
Tulane benefited from becoming independent. It opened up the schedule & recruiting to a national reach. We started recruiting black athletes in Louisiana, East Texas & Mississippi..
The 1984 Supreme Court ruling NCAA v. Board of Regents of the University of Oklahoma was the swan song for Independent programs who didn't get on their good foot and join a proto P5 conference..
Thank you, again, Dr Cowen. You da man!

[tpstulane]

judging by the last two AD's, Rix Yard was a genius

Back in the early to mid 1960's there was a plausible argument for becoming an independent in football and joining some regional conference for men's basketball & non-rev sports. Rix Yard had just arrived from Penn where the ivy league was in the process of de-emphasized football by limiting scholarships to financial need.
Tulane benefited from becoming independent. It opened up the schedule & recruiting to a national reach. We started recruiting black athletes in Louisiana, East Texas & Mississippi..
The 1984 Supreme Court ruling NCAA v. Board of Regents of the University of Oklahoma was the swan song for Independent programs who didn't get on their good foot and join a proto P5 conference..
Thank you, again, Dr Cowen. You da man!

The thought behind leaving the SEC to go independent was to better compete. The period we’re talking about Tulane had some of its worst seasons at that time. The problem was the scheduling remained in place to play SEC teams for years so we didn’t win going independent for that reason. Of course Dr Yard and President Longnecker had no idea what was going to happen financially in the future. Georgia Tech actually made the move to independence prior but later realized it’s mistake and jumped back into a conference (ACC). Tulane actually had that same opportunity but chose a different path. As far as recruitment of black athletes going independent had no bearing. Many schools besides Tulane had begun to recruit black athletes. It wasn’t because we went independent it was because schools realized it could help them win. I’ll agree that recruitment went nationwide but it hurt us here in Louisiana, Miss and Texas where we were already recruiting some of the best athletes in the South.

[HoustonWave]

judging by the last two AD's, Rix Yard was a genius

Back in the early to mid 1960's there was a plausible argument for becoming an independent in football and joining some regional conference for men's basketball & non-rev sports. Rix Yard had just arrived from Penn where the ivy league was in the process of de-emphasized football by limiting scholarships to financial need.
Tulane benefited from becoming independent. It opened up the schedule & recruiting to a national reach. We started recruiting black athletes in Louisiana, East Texas & Mississippi..
The 1984 Supreme Court ruling NCAA v. Board of Regents of the University of Oklahoma was the swan song for Independent programs who didn't get on their good foot and join a proto P5 conference..
Thank you, again, Dr Cowen. You da man!

The thought behind leaving the SEC to go independent was to better compete. The period we’re talking about Tulane had some of its worst seasons at that time. The problem was the scheduling remained in place to play SEC teams for years so we didn’t win going independent for that reason. Of course Dr Yard and President Longnecker had no idea what was going to happen financially in the future. Georgia Tech actually made the move to independence prior but later realized it’s mistake and jumped back into a conference (ACC). Tulane actually had that same opportunity but chose a different path. As far as recruitment of black athletes going independent had no bearing. Many schools besides Tulane had begun to recruit black athletes. It wasn’t because we went independent it was because schools realized it could help them win. I’ll agree that recruitment went nationwide but it hurt us here in Louisiana, Miss and Texas where we were already recruiting some of the best athletes in the South.

What was the opportunity (similar to GT’s) where Tulane decided to pursue another path?

[tpstulane]

Back in the early to mid 1960's there was a plausible argument for becoming an independent in football and joining some regional conference for men's basketball & non-rev sports. Rix Yard had just arrived from Penn where the ivy league was in the process of de-emphasized football by limiting scholarships to financial need.
Tulane benefited from becoming independent. It opened up the schedule & recruiting to a national reach. We started recruiting black athletes in Louisiana, East Texas & Mississippi..
The 1984 Supreme Court ruling NCAA v. Board of Regents of the University of Oklahoma was the swan song for Independent programs who didn't get on their good foot and join a proto P5 conference..
Thank you, again, Dr Cowen. You da man!

The thought behind leaving the SEC to go independent was to better compete. The period we’re talking about Tulane had some of its worst seasons at that time. The problem was the scheduling remained in place to play SEC teams for years so we didn’t win going independent for that reason. Of course Dr Yard and President Longnecker had no idea what was going to happen financially in the future. Georgia Tech actually made the move to independence prior but later realized it’s mistake and jumped back into a conference (ACC). Tulane actually had that same opportunity but chose a different path. As far as recruitment of black athletes going independent had no bearing. Many schools besides Tulane had begun to recruit black athletes. It wasn’t because we went independent it was because schools realized it could help them win. I’ll agree that recruitment went nationwide but it hurt us here in Louisiana, Miss and Texas where we were already recruiting some of the best athletes in the South.

What was the opportunity (similar to GT’s) where Tulane decided to pursue another path?

We both joined the Metro conference but it wasn’t a FB conference because Florida St wanted a bigger payout. GT wanted to get into a FB conference so they left and joined the ACC. Florida St (later joined the ACC) , South Carolina (later joined the SEC) and a few others in the Metro also left. . Tulane decided to stay in the Metro until it was suspended due to dropping basketball because of the point shaving incident and was later re-instated and stayed until the conference dissolved. Then instead of joining the established ACC we decided to be a charter member and form a new conference (CUSA) and the rest is history. Every step forward we made was followed by two steps backwards. It looks like history is going to continue.
IMO had the other members of the Metro decided to give FSU a bigger share of the FB pot we’d be in a P5 FB conference today. If you look at the early days of the Metro it had outstanding schools in it. As an original member we took the worst possible path going forward. Many those schools are P5 members today or soon to be (Cincinnati)
Cincinnati, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Virginia Tech, and South Carolina – are P5’s. .
Tulane and Memphis are not.

[wavemania]

i remember it as Metro was catering too much to Louisville as they didn't want a football football conference, so that was why GT and FLA St left for the ACC.

[golfnut69]

Back in the 60's when Tulane left the SEC they had a "National Schedule' ND..Stanford, Boston College, Air Force, North Carolina, West Virginia.."come to Tulane and see America, not just the southeast"...and remember, it was only 10 games per year

[HoustonWave]

The thought behind leaving the SEC to go independent was to better compete. The period we’re talking about Tulane had some of its worst seasons at that time. The problem was the scheduling remained in place to play SEC teams for years so we didn’t win going independent for that reason. Of course Dr Yard and President Longnecker had no idea what was going to happen financially in the future. Georgia Tech actually made the move to independence prior but later realized it’s mistake and jumped back into a conference (ACC). Tulane actually had that same opportunity but chose a different path. As far as recruitment of black athletes going independent had no bearing. Many schools besides Tulane had begun to recruit black athletes. It wasn’t because we went independent it was because schools realized it could help them win. I’ll agree that recruitment went nationwide but it hurt us here in Louisiana, Miss and Texas where we were already recruiting some of the best athletes in the South.

What was the opportunity (similar to GT’s) where Tulane decided to pursue another path?

We both joined the Metro conference but it wasn’t a FB conference because Florida St wanted a bigger payout. GT wanted to get into a FB conference so they left and joined the ACC. Florida St (later joined the ACC) , South Carolina (later joined the SEC) and a few others in the Metro also left. . Tulane decided to stay in the Metro until it was suspended due to dropping basketball because of the point shaving incident and was later re-instated and stayed until the conference dissolved. Then instead of joining the established ACC we decided to be a charter member and form a new conference (CUSA) and the rest is history. Every step forward we made was followed by two steps backwards. It looks like history is going to continue.
IMO had the other members of the Metro decided to give FSU a bigger share of the FB pot we’d be in a P5 FB conference today. If you look at the early days of the Metro it had outstanding schools in it. As an original member we took the worst possible path going forward. Many those schools are P5 members today or soon to be (Cincinnati)
Cincinnati, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Virginia Tech, and South Carolina – are P5’s. .
Tulane and Memphis are not.

When you say AAC, do you mean ACC? That Tulane could have joined the ACC after coming off of basketball suspension--and we passed on that for the CUSA??!! That I didn't know. I was aware of the Metro Conference missed opportunities, but didn't know that the we had an option of joining the ACC right after basketball was reinstated. If so, rack that up as another huge Tulane self-inflicted decision.

[tpstulane]

i remember it as Metro was catering too much to Louisville as they didn't want a football football conference, so that was why GT and FLA St left for the ACC.

That’s also true.

[tpstulane]

What was the opportunity (similar to GT’s) where Tulane decided to pursue another path?

We both joined the Metro conference but it wasn’t a FB conference because Florida St wanted a bigger payout. GT wanted to get into a FB conference so they left and joined the AAC. Florida St (later joined the AAC) , South Carolina (later joined the SEC) and a few others in the Metro also left. . Tulane decided to stay in the Metro until it was suspended due to dropping basketball because of the point shaving incident and was later re-instated and stayed until the conference dissolved. Then instead of joining the established AAC we decided to be a charter member and form a new conference (CUSA) and the rest is history. Every step forward we made was followed by two steps backwards. It looks like history is going to continue.
IMO had the other members of the Metro decided to give FSU a bigger share of the FB pot we’d be in a P5 FB conference today. If you look at the early days of the Metro it had outstanding schools in it. As an original member we took the worst possible path going forward. Many those schools are P5 members today or soon to be (Cincinnati)
Cincinnati, Louisville, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Virginia Tech, and South Carolina – are P5’s. .
Tulane and Memphis are not.

When you say AAC, do you mean ACC? That Tulane could have joined the ACC after coming off of basketball suspension--and we passed on that for the CUSA??!! That I didn't know. I was aware of the Metro Conference missed opportunities, but didn't know that the we had an option of joining the ACC right after basketball was reinstated. If so, rack that up as another huge Tulane self-inflicted decision.

Yikes. Yes meant ACC. I’ll fix that. We were offered a spot in the ACC when Sandy Barber was leaving so it never went anywhere.

[DrBox]

Extend Scelfo x2, Toledo, CJ/EP. As lackluster as Dannen is, he hasn't topped that.

[DfromCT]

TPS, I never heard of that offer when Sandy was leaving. That might or might not have involved Dickson, but I cannot imagine it was RD that killed that opportunity. That sounds like an idiotic decision that could only come from one self-proclaimed "Expert on NCAA Athletics" aka Scott Cowen. There were whispered rumors that Tulane was being considered by the ACC, but I never thought there was a fire where that smoke was coming from, certainly never an offer extended. If Cowen really said no to an ACC offer, he's worse than expected.

The comparison between Dickson and Dannen is one I don't want to participate in as both have serious warts.

[Show Me]

Extend Scelfo x2, Toledo, CJ/EP. As lackluster as Dannen is, he hasn't topped that.

If he stays around 15 years he’ll be right there.

[NotJtS]

Boneheaded moves for sure by Dickson, but Troy has literally done nothing. And I would argue that we are worse off now for conference realignment than when Dickson was around.

Also, never trust an AD who looks like he/she hasn't played a day of sports in their lives.

[tpstulane]

TPS, I never heard of that offer when Sandy was leaving. That might or might not have involved Dickson, but I cannot imagine it was RD that killed that opportunity. That sounds like an idiotic decision that could only come from one self-proclaimed "Expert on NCAA Athletics" aka Scott Cowen. There were whispered rumors that Tulane was being considered by the ACC, but I never thought there was a fire where that smoke was coming from, certainly never an offer extended. If Cowen really said no to an ACC offer, he's worse than expected.

The comparison between Dickson and Dannen is one I don't want to participate in as both have serious warts.

People around back then had mentioned that Tulane had an opportunity to join the ACC in Sandy’s last year. Not sure what happened. I think once SC came in and stepped on her toes she looked to leave and didn’t pursue the idea. Back then Tulane had a lot to offer and it was in the infant stage of the BCS. A 12-0 Tulane FB program in the Dome was very attractive.

[winwave]

I never heard that we had an ACC offer at that point. I think if it was a true offer it would have made it into the press which never happened.

[tpstulane]

I never heard that we had an ACC offer at that point. I think if it was a true offer it would have made it into the press which never happened.

Tulane people in the know can confirm.
Ask LVG next time you see him.
Some others around during that period may also able to confirm. Most have moved on or away from here. It’s been mentioned before.

[tpstulane]

i remember it as Metro was catering too much to Louisville as they didn't want a football football conference, so that was why GT and FLA St left for the ACC.

You’re correct. I went back into my dads archives to confirm.
At that time Louisville was all about basketball, they had a better revenue share in basketball and they didn't want to give that deal up by forming a football conf. The other members should have gone forward anyway. I believe Louisville threatened legal action to halt the football conference. At that point members started leaving to set themselves up "football wise". So we can blame Louisville for the demise of the Metro conf. Louisville's strong-arm tactics caused us to lose the mostly FB schools (FSU, GT, USC, and Cincinnati) and added Sun Belt teams mostly MBB (UNCC, VCU, USF) in their place. Tulane should have left at that point. That original conf would have set us up great for a BCS bid and a great schedule that would bring hundreds of 1,000's visitors to Nola during the football season. To this day I can not understand why the city (Landrieu & others) didn’t try to help promote Tulane football. I guess why so many of us look back wistfully to the Metro is that the original core schools had a nice geographic fit, some history and some nice markets (Atlanta for one). The Metro made sense. It wasn't too big, it wasn't too spread out geographically, it had some built in rivalries (us and Ga. Tech, us and USM, Louisville and Memphis, etc), it reached into the Midwest, the South and up the East Coast a bit........it just had a lot going for it. It could have become what the ACC is now. Had we remained in the SEC or Metro it would have been like a Sugar Bowl every home football weekend in the Dome. That was Dave Dixon's vision for Tulane football. Somehow we got way off track and the train has passed us by.

[DaveBrownStreak]

Folks, the answer to all of this is SOOO easy:


Get a Scientist, a kid, a Delorean and Huey Lewis to provide the music and just go back to 1965 and change the decision to get out of the SEC.....just that simple!!

[HoustonWave]

I never heard that we had an ACC offer at that point. I think if it was a true offer it would have made it into the press which never happened.

Tulane people in the know can confirm.
Ask LVG next time you see him.
Some others around during that period may also able to confirm. Most have moved on or away from here. It’s been mentioned before.

I do recall around that time, that one of the asst. athletic directors mentioned to me that they thought that we might get an ACC invite, but that we were still hoping to get a preferred invite back into the SEC, and that there were some discussions underway at the time with the SEC admins. I later heard that it was LSU that absolutely refused to entertain the idea of bringing Tulane back into the SEC. I guess is it was idiot Cowen that blew the chance with the ACC--add all that to our long list of foibles.

[JerseyWave]

Give Barbara Burke some credit, during her brief time at Tulane at the end of Dickson's tenure and the beginning of Dannen she was involved with the hiring of David Pierce, Willie Fritz and Jim Barnes. Dannen has been a major disappointment and needs to be replaced!