Stadium Parking / Shuttling

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wavemania
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One thing that is overlooked is winning consistently. If Tulane continued to at least win 6-7 games/ year in the early 80s, attendance would have kept increasing. It really would be foolish to piss away $$ on a small stadium. Take the money and invest in coaches and an IPF. Then after we hire the right coach and win for a abut 4-5 years straight(esp if we are in the big 12), then let's look at building the stadium. The problem is we have Gilligan and the Skipper running the ship. We won't go anywhere with these two clowns.


jonathanjoseph
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Maybe this will put Rick Dickson's incompetence in perspective:

Big 12 avg attendance: 63K
Tulane avg attendance vs BCS opponents 2002-2011: 41K
Baylor (smallest avg attendance in Big12): 40K
avg CUSA attendance: 28K

Understanding the above, it's difficult to imagine someone seriously proposing a 30K football stadium at the same time as applying to the Big 12. A <30K stadium is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard and how Cowen can allow this kind of incompetence in a highly paid school employee is maddening.

I hope more leaks about this stadium because this needs to be vetted by the community. We cannot let Cowen/Dickson pursue these ridiculous plans under the cover of darkness.
DrBox
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jonathanjoseph wrote:Maybe this will put Rick Dickson's incompetence in perspective:

Big 12 avg attendance: 63K
Tulane avg attendance vs BCS opponents 2002-2011: 41K
Baylor (smallest avg attendance in Big12): 40K
avg CUSA attendance: 28K
Let's be honest about these statistics. The only one that drew over 40 was LSU (I don't think Texas drew 40, but I could be wrong; no one else did). Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, TCU, West Virgina, Texas Tech won't be special draws in New Orleans. None will draw nearly as well as, say, Ole Miss draws in New Orleans, or even Southern Miss. And the first 4 in that list won't be much more than your average C-USA team. (Now I realize that sheerly being in the Big 12 and having a competent football team will put our attendance for pretty much any game to 30K).

OU and Texas will be massive draws. Ok State could be a very good draw.
jonathanjoseph
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DrBox wrote:
jonathanjoseph wrote:Maybe this will put Rick Dickson's incompetence in perspective:

Big 12 avg attendance: 63K
Tulane avg attendance vs BCS opponents 2002-2011: 41K
Baylor (smallest avg attendance in Big12): 40K
avg CUSA attendance: 28K
Let's be honest about these statistics. The only one that drew over 40 was LSU (I don't think Texas drew 40, but I could be wrong; no one else did). Baylor, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, TCU, West Virgina, Texas Tech won't be special draws in New Orleans. None will draw nearly as well as, say, Ole Miss draws in New Orleans, or even Southern Miss. And the first 4 in that list won't be much more than your average C-USA team. (Now I realize that sheerly being in the Big 12 and having a competent football team will put our attendance for pretty much any game to 30K).

OU and Texas will be massive draws. Ok State could be a very good draw.
Texas was 46,678. Ole Miss was 36,389. Miss St was 31K and 33K. And let's keep in mind that Ole Miss and Miss St are 350 miles away and those Tulane teams were non competitive.

And even then, all of those figures assume the local fan base is entirely uninterested in attending Tulane Football. If Tulane were top 25 playing those teams the average would have been closer to 50K but certainly over 40K. It takes this 10 minutes of research to confirm via fact that Dickson's stadium plan is braindead.
sader24
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If Tulane and Ole Miss were both in the Top 25 there would be 50K. Same thing with Miss.St. Are we planning to win or planning to be average?
RWR
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IF we are truly committed and have winning teams who are in the conf. race then there will be a lot of interest in games against the teams some are trying to write off as cusa level interest teams. At that point fans will be coming to see us. Our games are more attractive to those teams fans if they know it will be a competitive game. Fans want to support their team. If they know their team is going to kill us no need for such support. There will be much greater media hype. Think it thru. DON'T THINK SMALL.
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Some great points throughout this thread. Tulane truly is at the "fork in the road". Either we gear up for admission into the Big 12 sometime in the next 2 to 3 years (with strong assurances and input in the near term), or we continue down the path to obscurity in the CUSA or whatever pray tel may follow. With the former, we can either stay in the MSD or build a large OCS/NCS. Everyone agrees that 50K+ would be best, but 40K to 45K would also be sufficient. On the other hand, if we're left in CUSA purgatory 35K will sadly be sufficient. We are indeed at a critical juncture, and the conference affiliation will drive the answer.
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LGD
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I don't think a 30-35k stadium stamps us as small time permanently as long as there are very obvious and easy plans for expansion. That's obviously not my preference though, but a place like Boise was at 30k when they started getting awesome, bumped that up to 32k in 2008, 33.5k in 2009, and there is a multi-phase plan in place to raise the overall capacity to 53k over the next 4-5 years.

I would hope that the expansion plans would be drawn up as part of the original plan for an OCS, but there is precedent for a school starting with a smaller stadium, pouring in money to the program, then aggressively expanding along with your program.
jonathanjoseph
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HoustonWave wrote:Some great points throughout this thread. Tulane truly is at the "fork in the road". Either we gear up for admission into the Big 12 sometime in the next 2 to 3 years (with strong assurances and input in the near term), or we continue down the path to obscurity in the CUSA or whatever pray tel may follow. With the former, we can either stay in the MSD or build a large OCS/NCS. Everyone agrees that 50K+ would be best, but 40K to 45K would also be sufficient. On the other hand, if we're left in CUSA purgatory 35K will sadly be sufficient. We are indeed at a critical juncture, and the conference affiliation will drive the answer.
But Houston, even if you assume that "Plan B" or "continuing down path to CUSA obscurity" then there is no reason to spend $60M on a football stadium. This is not Birmingham some other remote place in the south. This is New Orleans where the fanbase will wear bags over their heads or not show up at all. Continuing down the same path isn't a plan that has a logical successful outcome. Only idiots (read: Cowen/Dickson) think that the status quo is fine as long as you have a home stadium. They think the Tulane Model is brilliant if it weren't for that troublesome Dome.

So again I ask which scenario Dickson has suggested has a realistic chance for success? Seems that the only potentially successful plan was one proposed by the Big 12 and there are indications that Dickson will screw that up.
Last edited by jonathanjoseph on Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jonathanjoseph
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LGD wrote:I don't think a 30-35k stadium stamps us as small time permanently as long as there are very obvious and easy plans for expansion. That's obviously not my preference though, but a place like Boise was at 30k when they started getting awesome, bumped that up to 32k in 2008, 33.5k in 2009, and there is a multi-phase plan in place to raise the overall capacity to 53k over the next 4-5 years.

I would hope that the expansion plans would be drawn up as part of the original plan for an OCS, but there is precedent for a school starting with a smaller stadium, pouring in money to the program, then aggressively expanding along with your program.
Do you know how far Boise, Idaho is from the nearest major urban center? Do you know how little people care about football in Idaho? That's proof that you can sell good football anywhere to anybody. Cowen and Dickson, on the other hand, are happy to spend $60M of your money to make sure we never try. Stand up guys, those two.
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HSV
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Should TU go forward with an OCS that is smaller than Big 12 standards for today (with the ability to expand if invited) vs. staying forever in the dome? I think many people have responded to this question in this thread.

This issue is beyond beating a dead horse by this point. I think the two sides of this issue make compelling arguments and for some people, there will never be any agreement on this issue.

However, I would like to know if this factor came into play, what would be your response to the OCS question given different parameters? Specifically, what if TU does not (nor doesn't believe it ever will) get an invitation to the Big 12 or Big East?

It seems to me that some people are assuming that the various tweets, emails, and one mainstream article written about a month ago by Andy Katz somehow indicate an inevitability of TU joining the Big 12. While I think EVERYONE here would welcome that news and see it as a wonderful opportunity for the return of the program, I think some are more cautious and negative regarding this possibility.

Is this factor a game changer for you? Would you still want to remain in the dome? I know that some will respond by saying that 25K, 30K, 35K would forever indicate that the program is small time. Okay, but if the prospects for the program are to be in a new "alliance" with remnant schools from C-USA and MWC, why stay in that giant building? [USM has gotten Nebraska to play at their 30+K stadium in Hattiesburg]. Hoping that one day down the line that TU will strike lightining in a bottle and join the big guys?

While many don't like to hear it, the game is fundamentally different than it was just 10-15 years ago. College football is bigger now than ever and the gap between the have's and the have not's has been increased due to the size of TV contracts and revenues from large crowds

[BTW, Here is a link to the size of stadiums in the FBS: http://www.collegegridirons.com/comparisons.htm

[and EVERYONE wants to see changes in coaches, recruting budgets, majors etc....let's not get off topic on the dome isn't the problem for winning discussion, when we all agree that it isn't a sole cause of winning/losing nor would a new OCS be a sole cause of winning/losing. We all also agree that winning puts people in the seats and that this program has no one attending now due to a long history of losing]

I think the OCS issue should ultimately decided after we hire a coach and learn more concretely about the realistic chance of TU joining any BCS conference. IF the answer to that question is NOT LIKELY, I would support a smaller stadium (still expandable if warranted later) to enhance the experience for fans and students.

IF on the other hand, TU announces some time in the near future that they are going forward with building a smaller OCS without explaining their reasons (tell us the money advantage from game day revenue, is TU no longer in the Big 12 plans, etc...make a compelling argument) than I would be against it and say it is nothing more than another example of RD's incompetence regarding public relations and perhaps decision making ability. But that is just me and I won't be making the decision.
jonathanjoseph
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HSV wrote:Should TU go forward with an OCS that is smaller than Big 12 standards for today (with the ability to expand if invited) vs. staying forever in the dome? I think many people have responded to this question in this thread.

This issue is beyond beating a dead horse by this point. I think the two sides of this issue make compelling arguments and for some people, there will never be any agreement on this issue.

However, I would like to know if this factor came into play, what would be your response to the OCS question given different parameters? Specifically, what if TU does not (nor doesn't believe it ever will) get an invitation to the Big 12 or Big East?

It seems to me that some people are assuming that the various tweets, emails, and one mainstream article written about a month ago by Andy Katz somehow indicate an inevitability of TU joining the Big 12. While I think EVERYONE here would welcome that news and see it as a wonderful opportunity for the return of the program, I think some are more cautious and negative regarding this possibility.

Is this factor a game changer for you? Would you still want to remain in the dome? I know that some will respond by saying that 25K, 30K, 35K would forever indicate that the program is small time. Okay, but if the prospects for the program are to be in a new "alliance" with remnant schools from C-USA and MWC, why stay in that giant building? [USM has gotten Nebraska to play at their 30+K stadium in Hattiesburg]. Hoping that one day down the line that TU will strike lightining in a bottle and join the big guys?

While many don't like to hear it, the game is fundamentally different than it was just 10-15 years ago. College football is bigger now than ever and the gap between the have's and the have not's has been increased due to the size of TV contracts and revenues from large crowds

[BTW, Here is a link to the size of stadiums in the FBS: http://www.collegegridirons.com/comparisons.htm

[and EVERYONE wants to see changes in coaches, recruting budgets, majors etc....let's not get off topic on the dome isn't the problem for winning discussion, when we all agree that it isn't a sole cause of winning/losing nor would a new OCS be a sole cause of winning/losing. We all also agree that winning puts people in the seats and that this program has no one attending now due to a long history of losing]

I think the OCS issue should ultimately decided after we hire a coach and learn more concretely about the realistic chance of TU joining any BCS conference. IF the answer to that question is NOT LIKELY, I would support a smaller stadium (still expandable if warranted later) to enhance the experience for fans and students.

IF on the other hand, TU announces some time in the near future that they are going forward with building a smaller OCS without explaining their reasons (tell us the money advantage from game day revenue, is TU no longer in the Big 12 plans, etc...make a compelling argument) than I would be against it and say it is nothing more than another example of RD's incompetence regarding public relations and perhaps decision making ability. But that is just me and I won't be making the decision.
HSV,

The horse is not dead as there is broad disagreement on this issue.

Whether or not we get into the Big 12 now is not relevant. The future of college football is relevant. The future of college football will see another 20 years of conference realignment and huge, huge, huge sums of money flowing in as the value for media rights for any "live events" is exploding and a playoff is coming.

To build a stadium that is any less than 40K permanently takes Tulane out of the running for any of the above. It's obscene how myopic Tulane's leadership is that they would consider this.
IM42lane
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WHERE in the h--l are we going to PARK?

I am not trying to burst this bubble, but even if the place only holds 30K, PARKING around and on that old campus will be a big issue. I hope that someone has thought this problem through.


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RobertM320
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IM42lane wrote:WHERE in the h--l are we going to PARK?

I am not trying to burst this bubble, but even if the place only holds 30K, PARKING around and on that old campus will be a big issue. I hope that someone has thought this problem through.



Maybe we can get the city to consider running a streetcar line from downtown to Carrollton via Claiborne Ave?
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http://www.nola.com/movies/index.ssf/20 ... art_1.html
"I've been a Saints fan since Archie Manning was playing at the old (Tulane Stadium) and we used to live on Pine Street," Godfrey said. "We used to sell parking spots in our driveway. "
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msdos
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the obvious thing is to turn the parking lot next to baseball into a parking garage.

a huge parking garage.

fuck, this is going to be a disaster, isn't it?
Wavetime
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What about a basketball arena right there.
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Any reason for not using the fly area of Audubon park. How unique for a horseshoe shape with the open end to the river. Tulane is always a follower instead of a leader, this would solve an image problem and the parking concern. Plus, the tailgating would be better than on campus. We've cooked on the parking lot roof but the park would be more suitable. Has anyone in our athletic department given this a thought?
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Is anyone serious about tu being invited to the b12??? were lucky we don't get asked to leave cusa. Getting d1 players and coaches is the priority before stadiums/conferences etc. Smu,Miami, tcu showed it could be done if there was a knowledgable leadership in place. One that understands how to build excitement as opposed to a personality of a loser. Winning is the only salvation to our problem.
Tulanegraduate
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Yes, they have considered the fly. And, I agree it would be the perfect and very unique venue. I've heard excuses from political to traffic flow issues getting in and out as reasons why it wouldn't work.
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I'm pro fly stadium but the nimby uptown uproar would be huge. I say FUCK EM
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RWR
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The fly is a horrific idea that will never happen. Absolutely terrible ingress and egress. A traffic nightmare. People need to really think things thru before making suggestions like this. It's not for sale and if it was it would drive the cost up dramatically. This is as ridiculous as suggesting we can build it in Audubon Park.

IT'S NOT THE DOME, IT'S THE LOSING.
JDTulane
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RWR wrote:The fly is a horrific idea that will never happen. Absolutely terrible ingress and egress. A traffic nightmare. People need to really think things thru before making suggestions like this. It's not for sale and if it was it would drive the cost up dramatically. This is as ridiculous as suggesting we can build it in Audubon Park.

IT'S NOT THE DOME, IT'S THE LOSING.

So basically if it isn't the dome to you it is a horrific idea and should never be discussed or mentioned. :roll:
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JDTulane wrote:I'm pro fly stadium but the nimby uptown uproar would be huge. I say f**k EM
Haters gonna hate. 8-)
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RWR
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JDTulane wrote:
RWR wrote:The fly is a horrific idea that will never happen. Absolutely terrible ingress and egress. A traffic nightmare. People need to really think things thru before making suggestions like this. It's not for sale and if it was it would drive the cost up dramatically. This is as ridiculous as suggesting we can build it in Audubon Park.

IT'S NOT THE DOME, IT'S THE LOSING.

So basically if it isn't the dome to you it is a horrific idea and should never be discussed or mentioned. :roll:
No. I'm against that idea b/c it has no basis in reality just like a 25,000 seat stadium doesn't. Like everyone here I'm for an OCS if it's done right which entails 50,000 seats to be legit ( can host all our games and won't be used against us in recruiting), provides ample parking, and doesn't try to rape the long time die-hard w/PSL's and high ticket prices. On the other hand your for an OCS no matter how much a detriment it is to the program.
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