SCOTUS puts kill shot to NCAA's defense of amateurism with NIL

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golfnut69
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:35 am

John McEnroe reacts to the SCOTUS ruling



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Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:50 am

The SCOTUS left enough confusion in it's ruling regarding "educational related" payments--which means athletes can receive cash fellowships and additional scholarships just as many students do now. Also, who is to say that college athletics isn't "educational related" already (isn't learning to be a better QB or DB educational?)--so any payments could be made under that interpretation. Lastly, Justice Kavanaugh, in his supplemental opinion, basically made it clear that going forward any restrictions on payments, salaries or the like, would be dead on arrival at the SCOTUS. I'm surprised that a new case hasn't already been filed, that will essentially pave the way for full blown salaries--it's just a matter of time. And yes, the football factories are undoubtedly already scheming how to take advantage of both this court ruling and the NIL developments. States are now in the drivers seats as far as what can be paid to athletes--and with LSU in the fold, we can expect the Louisiana politicians to match any other state when it comes to laws that will enable a university to attract athletes.
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HoustonWave
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:53 am

I wish, in all this anti-trust fervor, that somebody would legally challenge the P5 collusion. The high tech industry leaders are under legal and political attack, and now the NCAA has been gelded--why not go after the P5 ruse? We've always wondered about direct legal challenges to the BCS and P5, it doesn't seem that we've ever had a better environment for doing that.
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wave97
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:57 am

greenie78 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:58 am
The NCAA never had a true defense for its intent on amateurism. It was fraudulent especially with the amount of money being made.
+Gagillion
The SCOTUS unleashed this kraken in 1984. Ever since it has been an exercise in circling the wagons.
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:03 am

wave97 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:57 am
greenie78 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:58 am
The NCAA never had a true defense for its intent on amateurism. It was fraudulent especially with the amount of money being made.
+Gagillion
The SCOTUS unleashed this kraken in 1984. Ever since it has been an exercise in circling the wagons.
Very true. This is just the eventual 37 year play out of that 1984 ruling in the OU/Georgia cases. The NCAA leadership could have tried to shore up their control by creating a formal and broad football playoff, to keep schools in line with their rules, but they didn't do that and now they have no cards left to play. There is literally no need for the NCAA any longer--a costly bureaucracy that needs to go.
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winwave
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:10 am

HoustonWave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:50 am
The SCOTUS left enough confusion in it's ruling regarding "educational related" payments--which means athletes can receive cash fellowships and additional scholarships just as many students do now. Also, who is to say that college athletics isn't "educational related" already (isn't learning to be a better QB or DB educational?)--so any payments could be made under that interpretation. Lastly, Justice Kavanaugh, in his supplemental opinion, basically made it clear that going forward any restrictions on payments, salaries or the like, would be dead on arrival at the SCOTUS. I'm surprised that a new case hasn't already been filed, that will essentially pave the way for full blown salaries--it's just a matter of time. And yes, the football factories are undoubtedly already scheming how to take advantage of both this court ruling and the NIL developments. States are now in the drivers seats as far as what can be paid to athletes--and with LSU in the fold, we can expect the Louisiana politicians to match any other state when it comes to laws that will enable a university to attract athletes.
As one of the articles written about the ruling said Kavanaugh was on his own there. The others chose not to go there with him.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
winwave
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:12 am

HoustonWave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:03 am
wave97 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:57 am
greenie78 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:58 am
The NCAA never had a true defense for its intent on amateurism. It was fraudulent especially with the amount of money being made.
+Gagillion
The SCOTUS unleashed this kraken in 1984. Ever since it has been an exercise in circling the wagons.
Very true. This is just the eventual 37 year play out of that 1984 ruling in the OU/Georgia cases. The NCAA leadership could have tried to shore up their control by creating a formal and broad football playoff, to keep schools in line with their rules, but they didn't do that and now they have no cards left to play. There is literally no need for the NCAA any longer--a costly bureaucracy that needs to go.
The NCAA certainly has its flaws but if there is no NCAA then its over for us. The P5's will decide on scholarship limits and the such. They expand to 100 or 120 and that's where the players will go. Be careful what you ask for as you may get it.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:23 am

winwave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:12 am
HoustonWave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:03 am
wave97 wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:57 am

+Gagillion
The SCOTUS unleashed this kraken in 1984. Ever since it has been an exercise in circling the wagons.
Very true. This is just the eventual 37 year play out of that 1984 ruling in the OU/Georgia cases. The NCAA leadership could have tried to shore up their control by creating a formal and broad football playoff, to keep schools in line with their rules, but they didn't do that and now they have no cards left to play. There is literally no need for the NCAA any longer--a costly bureaucracy that needs to go.
The NCAA certainly has its flaws but if there is no NCAA then its over for us. The P5's will decide on scholarship limits and the such. They expand to 100 or 120 and that's where the players will go. Be careful what you ask for as you may get it.
I think many athletes will figure out that its not desirable to be the 120th player to sign with any team. In fact, the NIL developments could help many schools like Tulane, if Tulane wants to take advantage of it. Would a recruit's NIL potential be better as one of the top 3 players at a Tulane vs being the 12th best player at LSU? I still think the private school with the most potential to take advantage of both this court ruling and the NIL change will be SMU-- a lot deep pocketed alums concentrated in the DFW area.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:26 am

winwave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:10 am
HoustonWave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:50 am
The SCOTUS left enough confusion in it's ruling regarding "educational related" payments--which means athletes can receive cash fellowships and additional scholarships just as many students do now. Also, who is to say that college athletics isn't "educational related" already (isn't learning to be a better QB or DB educational?)--so any payments could be made under that interpretation. Lastly, Justice Kavanaugh, in his supplemental opinion, basically made it clear that going forward any restrictions on payments, salaries or the like, would be dead on arrival at the SCOTUS. I'm surprised that a new case hasn't already been filed, that will essentially pave the way for full blown salaries--it's just a matter of time. And yes, the football factories are undoubtedly already scheming how to take advantage of both this court ruling and the NIL developments. States are now in the drivers seats as far as what can be paid to athletes--and with LSU in the fold, we can expect the Louisiana politicians to match any other state when it comes to laws that will enable a university to attract athletes.
As one of the articles written about the ruling said Kavanaugh was on his own there. The others chose not to go there with him.
Perhaps so. But Kavanaugh all but invited the next lawsuit to challenge any restrictions on any payments--so I'm sure we'll get to see how that plays out legally.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
HoustonWave
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:28 am

You have to believe that these developments are going to force a lot of school's to reexamine what they are going to do with athletics--Tulane included. Tulane's past practice of "trying to get by on the cheap" simply isn't going to work much longer--not that it every really worked.
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winwave
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:33 am

HoustonWave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:23 am
winwave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:12 am
HoustonWave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:03 am


Very true. This is just the eventual 37 year play out of that 1984 ruling in the OU/Georgia cases. The NCAA leadership could have tried to shore up their control by creating a formal and broad football playoff, to keep schools in line with their rules, but they didn't do that and now they have no cards left to play. There is literally no need for the NCAA any longer--a costly bureaucracy that needs to go.
The NCAA certainly has its flaws but if there is no NCAA then its over for us. The P5's will decide on scholarship limits and the such. They expand to 100 or 120 and that's where the players will go. Be careful what you ask for as you may get it.
I think many athletes will figure out that its not desirable to be the 120th player to sign with any team. In fact, the NIL developments could help many schools like Tulane, if Tulane wants to take advantage of it. Would a recruit's NIL potential be better as one of the top 3 players at a Tulane vs being the 12th best player at LSU? I still think the private school with the most potential to take advantage of both this court ruling and the NIL change will be SMU-- a lot deep pocketed alums concentrated in the DFW area.
We think like that but 18 year olds don't as has bee clearly proven over time.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
exflash
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:34 am

….So back when I was named NORD outstanding All around athlete…..big bucks could have gotten me more change for recess treats😄
winwave
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:34 am

HoustonWave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:26 am
winwave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:10 am
HoustonWave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:50 am
The SCOTUS left enough confusion in it's ruling regarding "educational related" payments--which means athletes can receive cash fellowships and additional scholarships just as many students do now. Also, who is to say that college athletics isn't "educational related" already (isn't learning to be a better QB or DB educational?)--so any payments could be made under that interpretation. Lastly, Justice Kavanaugh, in his supplemental opinion, basically made it clear that going forward any restrictions on payments, salaries or the like, would be dead on arrival at the SCOTUS. I'm surprised that a new case hasn't already been filed, that will essentially pave the way for full blown salaries--it's just a matter of time. And yes, the football factories are undoubtedly already scheming how to take advantage of both this court ruling and the NIL developments. States are now in the drivers seats as far as what can be paid to athletes--and with LSU in the fold, we can expect the Louisiana politicians to match any other state when it comes to laws that will enable a university to attract athletes.
As one of the articles written about the ruling said Kavanaugh was on his own there. The others chose not to go there with him.
Perhaps so. But Kavanaugh all but invited the next lawsuit to challenge any restrictions on any payments--so I'm sure we'll get to see how that plays out legally.
No doubt as I have already posted of here.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
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tpstulane
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:18 am

HoustonWave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:50 am
The SCOTUS left enough confusion in it's ruling regarding "educational related" payments--which means athletes can receive cash fellowships and additional scholarships just as many students do now. Also, who is to say that college athletics isn't "educational related" already (isn't learning to be a better QB or DB educational?)--so any payments could be made under that interpretation. Lastly, Justice Kavanaugh, in his supplemental opinion, basically made it clear that going forward any restrictions on payments, salaries or the like, would be dead on arrival at the SCOTUS. I'm surprised that a new case hasn't already been filed, that will essentially pave the way for full blown salaries--it's just a matter of time. And yes, the football factories are undoubtedly already scheming how to take advantage of both this court ruling and the NIL developments. States are now in the drivers seats as far as what can be paid to athletes--and with LSU in the fold, we can expect the Louisiana politicians to match any other state when it comes to laws that will enable a university to attract athletes.
You’re exactly correct. You should read Tigerdroppings they are going wild with excitement like they won the lottery. They already pay but now it will be right there for all to see.

https://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/lsu ... /96924508/
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:06 am

Vindication for Will Wade.
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tpstulane
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:54 am

I happened to tune in to WWL radio a little while ago Newell Norman was hosting the topic of paying NCAA athletes he made a comparison that LSU’s special teams coach almost makes as much as the LSU president and of course the head football coach makes way more and so on. Another caller wanted a salary cap for each school. I can see it getting out of hand very quickly.
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:34 pm

And, Kavanaugh's concurrence in the result tells us the Supreme Court will eventually find scholarship athletes are "employees" of their respective universities within the meaning and defining jurisprudence of an employee under the Sherman Antitrust Act - NCAA Athletics is a business and the principle employees of this business are the "scholarship athletes." Game over, or game just beginning?
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:38 pm

Does the IRS play into this?
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:40 pm

Dave breslin wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:38 pm
Does the IRS play into this?
They will. The IRS plays into everything.
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:07 pm

Dave breslin wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:38 pm
Does the IRS play into this?
Generally speaking, any amounts received as fellowships/scholarships, that are used for tuition, books, fees, and expenses directly related to pursing a degree, are tax free. Any such amounts used for travel, administrative support, living expenses, etc are taxable. So most of what an athlete receives (NIL receipts and anything not directly going for tuition, books, fees, etc) should be taxable.
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:10 pm

The shift of funds to players is going to put a dent in the coaches money tree, and it will cut back on the gold-plated locker rooms, weight rooms, and baseball stadiums, etc. Over the years, a substantial part of the P5 revenue windfall should shift to the "buying" of recruits. The end of the golden age for college football coaches--they'll have to settle for a silver age. And that in turn should begin disproportionate revenue sharing within the P5 conferences--the big boys will want a much bigger piece of the pie. It's probably not a coincident that all this is happening just before many of the P5 TV contracts are up for renegotiation--which will probably include some revenue sharing adjustments within P5 conferences--perhaps the AAC as well. A new world in which either you compete or get a really small check. An era of economic relegation.
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winwave
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:31 pm

First off we aren't at the point that they are going to get paid salaries. If we do reach that point the coaches won't take a hit nor will facilities. The fans will see ticket prices skyrocket and mandatory seat donations go way up too.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:32 pm

winwave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:31 pm
First off we aren't at the point that they are going to get paid salaries. If we do reach that point the coaches won't take a hit nor will facilities. The fans will see ticket prices skyrocket and mandatory seat donations go way up too.
No way they can grow revenue as fast as the cost of paying players. It will necessitate a re-allocation of revenue.
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winwave
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Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:43 pm

HoustonWave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:32 pm
winwave wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 7:31 pm
First off we aren't at the point that they are going to get paid salaries. If we do reach that point the coaches won't take a hit nor will facilities. The fans will see ticket prices skyrocket and mandatory seat donations go way up too.
No way they can grow revenue as fast as the cost of paying players. It will necessitate a re-allocation of revenue.
The players won't get paid that much. Let's be honest most aren't worth getting paid.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
DfromCT
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Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:12 am

The Universities that have the ability to raise ticket prices and seat licenses are few and far between. Attendance is struggling across the board and fewer and fewer programs sell out regularly. LSU is a prime example, they've had a tough time selling out since they last expanded Tiger stadium. Even closer to home, Tulane has sold out Yulman once, opening day. We will hopefully repeat that against OU, but that may mean an absolute sea of crimson in our stadium. As has been discussed ad infinitum, there's too much competition for the recreational dollars and too many alternatives for new generations to choose from.
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