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RobertM320
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Tulane is not actually mentioned in the article, but a few things I thought were important:

1. Big East plans to go to 12 teams, so they can add a championship game, meaning increased TV revenue.

2. The current six, including Louisville and West Virginia, agreed to increase the exit fee to $10 million.

3. The Big East plans to add Air Force as a football only member.

It seems that this would mean, if Missouri leaves for the SEC (imminent), and the Big 12 decides to go to twelve teams, there's hardly anyone left except us. The Big East arrangement would effectively take UL, WVU and AF off the table for Big 12 expansion, leaving BYU, Tulane and someone else to fill three spots.

Dominos are falling as we speak.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2011 ... y=nav|head


"That mantra is the only consistent thing that never needs to ever change for the rest of this program’s existence because that is all that matters & as long as that keeps occurring, everything will handle itself" -- Nick Anderson
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msdos
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This could be the most important hire in Tulane history since leaving the SEC.

I'm throwing caution to the wind, and hoping that Cowen gets it right (he can't possibly let RD screw it up again).

I really hope that the timing of Toledo's departure had a lot to do with Mizzou going public that they are seeking the SEC.
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All the more Reason Tulane must make a statement hire. Someone that will get people's attention. Show me the money!
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RobertM320
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JerseyWave wrote:All the more Reason Tulane must make a statement hire. Someone that will get people's attention. Show me the money!
And I think that means, NO Frank Wilson, NO Curtis Johnson, NO J.T. Curtis. PLEASE?
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msdos
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J.T. Curtis?

Seriously?

WHAT?
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Tulane is quiet by nature. However, I do believe that there is smoke and fire there somewhere. We are now all of a sudden behind Cinn, but that's because of our on field performance and the media, not because of the Presidents, AAU, markets, recruiting etc. I just can't see the Big 12 going with 3 teams out east and moving the center of the conference out there, it makes no sense. I honestly believe that it's UL, BYU, Tulane, WVA, then Cinn. All of a sudden BYU is back in the hunt, but I'll believe it when I see it.
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The benefit of Cincy over Tulane is that Louisville and Cincy are rather close proximity which make for good travel partners.

I do agree there is too much upside for Tulane not to be included: proximity to existing conference partners, destination city, AAU, tv market, recruiting, etc...
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I understand about the UL/Cincy, but I just don't think the Big 12 will take all 3 (incl WVA). I can see 2 of the 3, but not all. Of course, this is speculation. They also lost 2 AAU schools (Neb was at the time when they left), and to replace 3 slots with no AAU schools, then have the distinction that the SEC has more AAU schools then Tulane? I just dont' see it. Maybe I'm just an eternal optomist, heck, I'm a Tulane fan, but I just don't see the logic.

The easiest thing to fix is the on field performance.

Markets - University can't fix that
AAU - takes time to develop/hire faculty, have a med school, all the things necessary to get research $
Location - Can't change that
Recruiting Area - Can't change that
On Field - Spend some money, get a good coach, the improved product will sell itself.
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OUG
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Guys, the $10 million ain't gonna to stop UL an WVU from joining the Big 12.

C-USA's exit is $7 million, an that won't stop us. All that stuff is negotiable.

If the Big 12 works things out with BYU, we have no chance. It'll be BYU, UL, WVU.

I can't imagine that BYU and the Big 12 members don't come to an agreement over TV issues.
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I thought one of the BYU issues was playing games and traveling on Sundays.
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OUG
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austxwave wrote:I thought one of the BYU issues was playing games and traveling on Sundays.
Not a deal breaker. BYU has never played on Sundays and never will. Every conference has worked around it in the past for them.

The only issue is tv rights, and BYU's insistence on replaying games on BYUtv within 48 hours of original broadcast. Fox in particular can't really afford to have that happen. They'll work out terms, I think.

Still, as Katz pointed out, BYU saying no is our only shot at membership.
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RobertM320
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OUG wrote:Guys, the $10 million ain't gonna to stop UL an WVU from joining the Big 12.

C-USA's exit is $7 million, an that won't stop us. All that stuff is negotiable.

If the Big 12 works things out with BYU, we have no chance. It'll be BYU, UL, WVU.

I can't imagine that BYU and the Big 12 members don't come to an agreement over TV issues.
But then again, with the Big East going to 12 teams and a championship game, their TV money will be comparable to the Big 12. Why would UL and WVU want to fork up $10M to move to a conference where they'd have to deal with OU and UT every year, and make no more money? And eventually, you know the Big 12 is going to end up being where everyone cuts their own TV deal because of TLN and Soonervision, meaning less from the national networks.

Tulane, on the other hand, stands to see a substantial increase in yearly revenue in exchange for that $7M exit fee, so it would be a no brainer. I don't think the situation with UL and WVU is that clear cut.
"That mantra is the only consistent thing that never needs to ever change for the rest of this program’s existence because that is all that matters & as long as that keeps occurring, everything will handle itself" -- Nick Anderson
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RobertM320 wrote:
OUG wrote:Guys, the $10 million ain't gonna to stop UL an WVU from joining the Big 12.

C-USA's exit is $7 million, an that won't stop us. All that stuff is negotiable.

If the Big 12 works things out with BYU, we have no chance. It'll be BYU, UL, WVU.

I can't imagine that BYU and the Big 12 members don't come to an agreement over TV issues.
But then again, with the Big East going to 12 teams and a championship game, their TV money will be comparable to the Big 12. Why would UL and WVU want to fork up $10M to move to a conference where they'd have to deal with OU and UT every year, and make no more money? And eventually, you know the Big 12 is going to end up being where everyone cuts their own TV deal because of TLN and Soonervision, meaning less from the national networks.


Tulane, on the other hand, stands to see a substantial increase in yearly revenue in exchange for that $7M exit fee, so it would be a no brainer. I don't think the situation with UL and WVU is that clear cut.
The Big East going to 12 is symbolic. As long as there is a basketball/football hybrid there, they are far more stable in the Big 12.

UL and WVU are still very interested in the Big 12 and will go when offered.

We will not be selected as Missouri's replacement. Our hope is them going to 12 teams with us being the 12th along with UL/WVU.
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RobertM320
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I agree we don't get in as Missouri's replacement. However, I'm not 100% convinced that the Big 12 takes WVU over Tulane.
"That mantra is the only consistent thing that never needs to ever change for the rest of this program’s existence because that is all that matters & as long as that keeps occurring, everything will handle itself" -- Nick Anderson
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WVU is not exactly in a destination city. On top of that, I think you would have to look at potential versus historical past and evaluate what value a school could bring. WVU has reached its peak (strong football). They won't be invited to the AAU anytime soon, Morgantown won't become the one of the best tourist destinations, and they won't be building an NFL stadium near their campus. Tulane on the other hand, has all of the intangibles and the potential to be so much more than they have been on the field. The only thing wrong with Tulane is the results on the scoreboards. Our only problem is literally something that can be fixed within 1-2 seasons of success. I would like to see WVU, Cincy, or UL try to get into the AAU within 2 years, or turn their cities into fabulous destinations.
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RobertM320
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Here's a scenario I didn't think about:

Seems the Big 12 may go to 12 teams NOW, and then go for 4 more later. The possibility of adding BYU,UL, and WVU this year, and then

GSwaim BigTime TV/Radio
"@DaBigIke: @GSwaim Who are the replacements? BYU, WVU & UL?" // it's sounding that way tonight, but things sometimes change.
Oct 18
GSwaim BigTime TV/Radio
"@thefoxseakid: @GSwaim when is this goin down?" // Sounds like Thursday or Friday when #Mizzou makes it official...soon thereafter.
Oct 18
GSwaim BigTime TV/Radio
#Big12 likely #BYU and 2 from #BigEast when #Mizzou leaves, then to #USF #UCF and more next round, year from now. #WVU #CardNation #Bearcats
Oct 18
GSwaim BigTime TV/Radio
@CalGTR It's going to be three of the four I mentioned in my column last night. The fourth and more could be added later.
Oct 18
GSwaim BigTime TV/Radio
"@DrDaveKimball: @GSwaim wasnt 10 teams for 2012 what we were thinking all along? and then 12 the next year?" // some schools wanted 12 now.
9 hours ago
GSwaim BigTime TV/Radio
@COUGAREARL Nothing new today, but expect it to happen right around the time we do the show at @ShilohBar on Friday afternoon. #Mizzou #BYU
3 hours ago
GSwaim BigTime TV/Radio
There is a small war going on now between schools who want 10 (UT) and those who want 12 (OU/OSU). #BYU #WVU #CardNation #Bearcats #UH #SMU
1 hour ago

Is it possible they go to 10 for 2012, but announce teams 11 and 12 for 2013. Then eventually go to 16 teams, and we still don't get in? :cry: :evil: I guess at least we'll have some time to improve before they go beyond 12. If they get the teams this guy is talking about, the Big East is DOA.

Note: It seems this guy has a syndicated radio show in Columbia, Mo.

http://gregswaim.com/2011/10/what-now-for-big-12/
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Greg Swaim has no idea what the hell he's talking about. He's been all over the map. I swear, his sources are just continually messing with him.

Let's be honest.... The Big 12 has played its cards pretty close to the vest, not going on record about hardly anything. But they're gonna leak stuff to a radio guy with a blog named Greg Swaim that nobody's ever heard of?

Please.

That said, BYU, WVU, and UL added to the Big 12 seems to be the prevailing CW. And I'd say that's about right. Again, we have a shot if they can't work things with BYU, just like Andy Katz said.

UL and WVU are as good as gone. You guys saying that we offer more than WVU are nuts. They have top 25 programs in both major sports. We had 600 people at our last football game. We draw 1000 in basketball at most. We're a project, they are not.

Academics is a great tie-breaker. But there's no tie here. They are a credible add right now and we are not. Again, let's hope BYU declines.
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OUG wrote:
austxwave wrote:I thought one of the BYU issues was playing games and traveling on Sundays.
Not a deal breaker. BYU has never played on Sundays and never will. Every conference has worked around it in the past for them.
Those would be the WAC and MWC, the 2 conferences that BYU ran. They're a pain in the ass. But Big 12 might be willing to put up with it.
W Va's geography also sucks.
And Lou and W Va are really downgrades re academic institutions for the Big 12.
I'm just hopin

If they go to 12 without us, I hope it doesn't dissuade Rick and Scott and their "commitment."
Last edited by DrBox on Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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OUG wrote:Greg Swaim has no idea what the hell he's talking about. He's been all over the map. I swear, his sources are just continually messing with him.

Let's be honest.... The Big 12 has played its cards pretty close to the vest, not going on record about hardly anything. But they're gonna leak stuff to a radio guy with a blog named Greg Swaim that nobody's ever heard of?

Please.

That said, BYU, WVU, and UL added to the Big 12 seems to be the prevailing CW. And I'd say that's about right. Again, we have a shot if they can't work things with BYU, just like Andy Katz said.

UL and WVU are as good as gone. You guys saying that we offer more than WVU are nuts. They have top 25 programs in both major sports. We had 600 people at our last football game. We draw 1000 in basketball at most. We're a project, they are not.

Academics is a great tie-breaker. But there's no tie here. They are a credible add right now and we are not. Again, let's hope BYU declines.
And that's the point: right now. So, 5 years from now their football and basketball programs go in the tank, and what does the Big 12 have? A money sucking anchor of a university that is of no use to them. Its not placed well logistically for non-revenue sports, it provides no TV market and it doesn't even work as a destination city for the rest of the Big 12 fans. Let the two programs falter, and the Big 12 basically has added a "Marshall".
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Academics has to be more than a "tie breaker" for us to get in anywhere, the way our program sits right now. And I think it is. Because program v. program, we sit behind some of the sunbelt and pretty much all of C-USA. I haven't seen any of the Big 5 take academic basket cases yet.
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RobertM320 wrote:
OUG wrote:Greg Swaim has no idea what the hell he's talking about. He's been all over the map. I swear, his sources are just continually messing with him.

Let's be honest.... The Big 12 has played its cards pretty close to the vest, not going on record about hardly anything. But they're gonna leak stuff to a radio guy with a blog named Greg Swaim that nobody's ever heard of?

Please.

That said, BYU, WVU, and UL added to the Big 12 seems to be the prevailing CW. And I'd say that's about right. Again, we have a shot if they can't work things with BYU, just like Andy Katz said.

UL and WVU are as good as gone. You guys saying that we offer more than WVU are nuts. They have top 25 programs in both major sports. We had 600 people at our last football game. We draw 1000 in basketball at most. We're a project, they are not.

Academics is a great tie-breaker. But there's no tie here. They are a credible add right now and we are not. Again, let's hope BYU declines.
And that's the point: right now. So, 5 years from now their football and basketball programs go in the tank, and what does the Big 12 have? A money sucking anchor of a university that is of no use to them. Its not placed well logistically for non-revenue sports, it provides no TV market and it doesn't even work as a destination city for the rest of the Big 12 fans. Let the two programs falter, and the Big 12 basically has added a "Marshall".
West virginia has been pretty good in both football and basketball for quite some time. There is little downside risk there, athletically.

Do me a favor: compare the athletic budgets of UL, WVU, BYU, and Tulane. Which one does not belong?

I'm not trying to be a Debbie downer. Just saying that we are te only team mentioned under consideration that the Big 12 would have some serious 'splainin' to do on. I stand by Katz' scenario. If they go to 12, and BYU can't work it out, we are a viable (not gauranteed) fall back.
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OUG wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:
OUG wrote:Greg Swaim has no idea what the hell he's talking about. He's been all over the map. I swear, his sources are just continually messing with him.

Let's be honest.... The Big 12 has played its cards pretty close to the vest, not going on record about hardly anything. But they're gonna leak stuff to a radio guy with a blog named Greg Swaim that nobody's ever heard of?

Please.

That said, BYU, WVU, and UL added to the Big 12 seems to be the prevailing CW. And I'd say that's about right. Again, we have a shot if they can't work things with BYU, just like Andy Katz said.

UL and WVU are as good as gone. You guys saying that we offer more than WVU are nuts. They have top 25 programs in both major sports. We had 600 people at our last football game. We draw 1000 in basketball at most. We're a project, they are not.

Academics is a great tie-breaker. But there's no tie here. They are a credible add right now and we are not. Again, let's hope BYU declines.
And that's the point: right now. So, 5 years from now their football and basketball programs go in the tank, and what does the Big 12 have? A money sucking anchor of a university that is of no use to them. Its not placed well logistically for non-revenue sports, it provides no TV market and it doesn't even work as a destination city for the rest of the Big 12 fans. Let the two programs falter, and the Big 12 basically has added a "Marshall".
West virginia has been pretty good in both football and basketball for quite some time. There is little downside risk there, athletically.

Do me a favor: compare the athletic budgets of UL, WVU, BYU, and Tulane. Which one does not belong?

I'm not trying to be a Debbie downer. Just saying that we are te only team mentioned under consideration that the Big 12 would have some serious 'splainin' to do on. I stand by Katz' scenario. If they go to 12, and BYU can't work it out, we are a viable (not gauranteed) fall back.
All the more reason why Dickson cannot be out there talking about a small stadium and doing it "our way". A big splash hire and a loud, public commitment would do wonders.
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RobertM320
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Latest trends on Twitter etc, seem to have WVU taking the lead as the replacement for Missouri when they leave. However, nothing really strong, just how the consensus seem to be running. BYU also.
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Baseball is a big sport in the Big 12. How are all the baseball programs going to feel when BYU won't play Sunday games? What about the Sunday double headers that happen due to Saturday rainouts? Seems like a headache.
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murphwave wrote:Baseball is a big sport in the Big 12. How are all the baseball programs going to feel when BYU won't play Sunday games? What about the Sunday double headers that happen due to Saturday rainouts? Seems like a headache.
Out of curiosity, I went to the BYU Athletics site to see how they handle it currently. It looks like in the past they were in the MWC. Not sure how they handled it. With their football team being ind. right now, they have their other sports scheduled to play in the West Coast Conference with the likes of Pepperdine, Gonzaga, San Diego, etc. It seems the league accomodated them by scheduling all their conference series on Thurs, Fri, Sat, even the ones on the road. It would remain to be seen if the Big 12 would do the same. Can't see Texas, OU and others giving up Sunday afternoon baseball games.
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