Changing the Narrative

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swampnik
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Jaxwave wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:55 am
swampnik wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:51 am
Oh Brother wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:43 pm Correction- Wikipedia beats old age memory- it was 1974, we were 5-0 and ranked 16 th when we lost Foley
[/
From what I remember watching on TV: Tulane started at 5-0, the game was in the Dome on national TV and the crowd was 67,000.
The game was in Atlanta.
The not that game but TU was at home in the Dome at 5-0 in early -mid 70's against a good opponent and the local crowd was 55-67k range.


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DfromCT
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Is our Green Wave better than we were 5 years ago? Absolutely. but so is the competition in the AAC. Has the perception of Tulane football changed? You folks would know better than me if locally it's changed. (I suspect we're getting a bit more respect in Louisiana, but not much.) Nationally, I don't think it has changed. Most folks I talk to about Tulane football still think we're not very good. I can point to back to back bowl seasons and I'll get the eye roll and "yeah, so what 80 teams make a bowl game now, sometimes teams under .500 go!" reply. We don't win the big games, and this coaching staff is still looking for that '"signature win" that has been so elusive. We could beat Tulsa by 30 Thursday night (I'm not making that prediction) and that wouldn't move the needle. We need to win a few games against a name teams that people actually pay attention to. Going 7-4 and winning another nobodycares.com bowl game won't affect national perception. We may have taken a few steps in the right direction, but we're still considered the same old Tulane.
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I'd say you're spot on with regards to the perception issue both locally and nationally. Win these next two plus a Bowl and then come out firing next year and we can start to change that.
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The PEEE 5 cartel did not exist. Entire University systems did not rely on popular entertainment (football), to attract prospective students. Ponderous Title IX regulations did not hamper Athletic Departments.
Tulane started recruiting pre-desegragation black high schools in the early to mid 1960's. We had a leg up on recruiting black football talent that lasted until the early 80's. Reggie Collier wanted to go to Tulane, but Tulane already had Nicky Hall, he didn't want to wait, so he went to USM.
[
Anytime we played a former SEC rival (which was often), or a nationally relevant Clemson, early 80's SMU, Stanford we filled everything but the end zones in the Superdome. In the minds of everybody in Loisiana no one could deny that Tulane was at the very least competitive with LSU.
I am very happy to see Tulane improving, but I hope that you can excuse a few of us old timers, if we are somewhat less than impressed over a victory over an untested Army football team.
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wave97 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:47 am The PEEE 5 cartel did not exist. Entire University systems did not rely on popular entertainment (football), to attract prospective students. Ponderous Title IX regulations did not hamper Athletic Departments.
Tulane started recruiting pre-desegragation black high schools in the early to mid 1960's. We had a leg up on recruiting black football talent that lasted until the early 80's. Reggie Collier wanted to go to Tulane, but Tulane already had Nicky Hall, he didn't want to wait, so he went to USM.
[
Anytime we played a former SEC rival (which was often), or a nationally relevant Clemson, early 80's SMU, Stanford we filled everything but the end zones in the Superdome. In the minds of everybody in Loisiana no one could deny that Tulane was at the very least competitive with LSU.
I am very happy to see Tulane improving, but I hope that you can excuse a few of us old timers, if we are somewhat less than impressed over a victory over an untested Army football team.
Well said, 97.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
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The OP was about breaking embarrassing records of futility amongst other topics. Most recently beating a ranked team for the first time in too long. The record wasnt about beating an overated or underaged ranked opponent - it was simply a ranked opponent.

Additionally - The title of the OP wasn't “the narrative has changed- we have arrived” it was “Changing The Narrative”. We were one of the worst teams in college football for how long ? Momentum and inertia are difficult to reverse. Along those lines to use a tired expression- Rome wasn’t built in a day. Certainly in our case, Rome was actually burning and being pillaged for A LONG TIME. . . It was rubble.

I think we truly underestimate how big having Pratt and a balanced offense is for so many reasons. We couldn’t beat the name teams in our conference with fritz triple offense and run first offense. This is how we take that step forward. This is how we reach the next tier and continue to change the narrative. Locals only give a shit about LSU and the Saints, and until they suck and we do BIG things (beat LSU, beat sec teams) I agree we won’t win over someone without a Tulane connection.

However, I do believe the students not thinking we are a joke (at this point they think we are pretty good/mediocre, correct me if I’m wrong) and come to games and after college will have an interest is also a step in the right direction. No one is saying we have arrived. But taking away the talking points & records of futility that announcers parrot during our games is another step in Changing The Narrative.
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Cross post from Tulsa thread. Very good podcast with Tulsa bloggers and Fear The Wave. Mentions this site a few times, low bar syndrome and some of the topics in this thread. Also some fun Rick Dickson questions (Tulsa’s AD).

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/3 ... 0499021646
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wave97 wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:47 am The PEEE 5 cartel did not exist. Entire University systems did not rely on popular entertainment (football), to attract prospective students. Ponderous Title IX regulations did not hamper Athletic Departments.
Tulane started recruiting pre-desegragation black high schools in the early to mid 1960's. We had a leg up on recruiting black football talent that lasted until the early 80's. Reggie Collier wanted to go to Tulane, but Tulane already had Nicky Hall, he didn't want to wait, so he went to USM.
[
Anytime we played a former SEC rival (which was often), or a nationally relevant Clemson, early 80's SMU, Stanford we filled everything but the end zones in the Superdome. In the minds of everybody in Loisiana no one could deny that Tulane was at the very least competitive with LSU.
I am very happy to see Tulane improving, but I hope that you can excuse a few of us old timers, if we are somewhat less than impressed over a victory over an untested Army football team.
Couldn’t agree more.
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Always find it funny when bloggers come to these sites looking for customers but then get interviewed and knock those very people. As to the firing like everybody but Steve he didn't get the purpose of that thread. As to Hall he is on point as I've said many times he's good at his job. The plays have been there but the execution hasn't. It's getting better due to Pratt taking over and the receivers starting to come on some. As to JP I appreciate his efforts but he's no expert. He's just a fan like the rest of us who just takes the time to blog.
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The Tulsa podcast with JP was an interesting listen. Yes, they both took some shots at posters on the boards, and I think win has it dead on accurate about JP. I never went so far as to call for Fritz's job, but I did and still do question whether or not Fritz can take the program to the next level. I believe he's put us on solid ground, but at year 5, we aren't quite as far along as I would have hoped. I don't think any of us are satisfied that 6-8 wins appears to be the ceiling. That's a big step up as I think our floor is now 4 wins. So we've gone from a 2 win floor to a 4 win floor and from a 4=6 win ceiling to a 6-8 win ceiling. I don't think anyone expects us to compete for the mythical national championship, but we'd rather that the ceiling be 10-11 wins and .500 in conference be a down year.
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DfromCT wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 6:40 am The Tulsa podcast with JP was an interesting listen. Yes, they both took some shots at posters on the boards, and I think win has it dead on accurate about JP. I never went so far as to call for Fritz's job, but I did and still do question whether or not Fritz can take the program to the next level. I believe he's put us on solid ground, but at year 5, we aren't quite as far along as I would have hoped. I don't think any of us are satisfied that 6-8 wins appears to be the ceiling. That's a big step up as I think our floor is now 4 wins. So we've gone from a 2 win floor to a 4 win floor and from a 4=6 win ceiling to a 6-8 win ceiling. I don't think anyone expects us to compete for the mythical national championship, but we'd rather that the ceiling be 10-11 wins and .500 in conference be a down year.
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Just one guys opinion but the writer who covers G5 conferences for the Athletic was asked a question about what 10-14 G5 schools would you like to see form a football conference to compete with P5 conferences and he came up with Cincinnati, UCF, Houston, Memphis, Navy, Boise State, San Diego State, Marshall, Appalachian State, Louisiana, Buffalo, BYU. he cited a record of success, fan bases, resources and facilities/infrastructure as his basis for consideration. He noted that obviously geographically that would never work but it does give you some idea of the perception of the G5 pecking order nationally.
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Like has been said here the perception hasn't changed.
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swampnik wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:24 am
The not that game but TU was at home in the Dome at 5-0 in early -mid 70's against a good opponent and the local crowd was 55-67k range.
That didn't happen, swamp. Dome didn't open until the 1975 season. We started 4-2 and finished 4-7 that year. The next three years were the first three years of Larry Smith, and we went 2-9, 3-8, 4-7. In 1979, we were 9-3, but were 5-2 after 7 games. You could be thinking of the game vs Ole Miss the week prior to the LSU game. There were over 60K there and we beat John Fourcade and the Rebels 49-15. The next week we beat LSU. That was my senior year in school. I remember it vividly, as I was the Hullabaloo sports editor at the time.
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Jaxwave wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:31 am Just one guys opinion but the writer who covers G5 conferences for the Athletic was asked a question about what 10-14 G5 schools would you like to see form a football conference to compete with P5 conferences and he came up with Cincinnati, UCF, Houston, Memphis, Navy, Boise State, San Diego State, Marshall, Appalachian State, Louisiana, Buffalo, BYU. he cited a record of success, fan bases, resources and facilities/infrastructure as his basis for consideration. He noted that obviously geographically that would never work but it does give you some idea of the perception of the G5 pecking order nationally.
Now ya know why he writes for the athletic...out of all listed, there are two to four TV markets worth a krap...outside of the MTN and left coast time zones, no body gives a rats azz about byu,san deigo st, boise st..per Nielsen .the only two big markets are Orlando-18 and Houston-8...memphis-51 and Cincy-38 are large mkts....san diego is 29 Salt Lake 30 boise is 102, but their central / east coast viewership is almost at zero...lafayette 123...buffalo is 52, thanks to the canadians watching... Marshall is not even listed
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I know better then to try people’s minds on an internet message board, especially Tulane fans. But I think what we have seen in these threads recently is rather indicative of why there is lack of growth from the user base & posters here (and on the other board for that matter). I’ll check in and see what the gripes are whenever we win the aac championship (not enough teams in the top 10, not the sec etc). Some people just often default to the negative outlook and are the rain cloud over the proverbial parade. The old expression: “misery loves company”, seems to be rather fitting. Enjoy gentlemen
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Bicoastalwave wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:36 am I know better then to try people’s minds on an internet message board, especially Tulane fans. But I think what we have seen in these threads recently is rather indicative of why there is lack of growth from the user base & posters here (and on the other board for that matter). I’ll check in and see what the gripes are whenever we win the aac championship (not enough teams in the top 10, not the sec etc). Some people just often default to the negative outlook and are the rain cloud over the proverbial parade. The old expression: “misery loves company”, seems to be rather fitting. Enjoy gentlemen

Fake news. We are happy to have beaten Army and be on a three game win streak. These are fan message boards where things are discussed fully. There is no question Army had played a weak schedule. People discussing that are just being honest. If that sucks the joy out for you and a couple of others that's on you. The reason for the lack of growth is we still haven't done anything to stir the fan base up. For those that can't handle honest discussion of Tulane athletics they should just live in their own little fantasy world and not visit fan message boards.
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Just got to listen to the whole show. He starts early with the low bar comment about the Army win but then comes back and says exactly what the fans he criticizes says- that they had played a cream puff schedule. He later says that fans have said it is an abject failure so far under Fritz. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT. Just like other posters he makes things up that fit his agenda. He even goes full Toledo and says it's the fringe talking like that because he talks to a lot of Tulane people. Clearly he confines his circle to only those that tell him what he wants hear. Most of the fan base is concerned at this point that we can only go so far under WF. He later blast Toledo and thus becomes the lunatic fringe. He then says that if we just win 7 that's good considering the conference were in because it's hard to win in the conference. NEWSFLASH- WE HAVE ONLY HAD ONE WINNING CONFERENCE RECORD AND THAT WAS IN A DOWN YEAR FOR THE CONFERENCE MUCH LIKE THIS ONE. Even if we win the next two we can only go .500 this year. So many of those wins t have been racked up against weak OOC opponents.

I was surprised when he was given his own forum here. He's just another poster and should be treated as such.
Last edited by winwave on Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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golfnut69 wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:30 am
Jaxwave wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:31 am Just one guys opinion but the writer who covers G5 conferences for the Athletic was asked a question about what 10-14 G5 schools would you like to see form a football conference to compete with P5 conferences and he came up with Cincinnati, UCF, Houston, Memphis, Navy, Boise State, San Diego State, Marshall, Appalachian State, Louisiana, Buffalo, BYU. he cited a record of success, fan bases, resources and facilities/infrastructure as his basis for consideration. He noted that obviously geographically that would never work but it does give you some idea of the perception of the G5 pecking order nationally.
Now ya know why he writes for the athletic...out of all listed, there are two to four TV markets worth a krap...outside of the MTN and left coast time zones, no body gives a rats azz about byu,san deigo st, boise st..per Nielsen .the only two big markets are Orlando-18 and Houston-8...memphis-51 and Cincy-38 are large mkts....san diego is 29 Salt Lake 30 boise is 102, but their central / east coast viewership is almost at zero...lafayette 123...buffalo is 52, thanks to the canadians watching... Marshall is not even listed
He qualified his picks by saying it was based on football considerations only as they apply to factors mentioned above which do not include TV ratings. Also said could not work geographically.
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Jaxwave wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:24 am
golfnut69 wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:30 am
Jaxwave wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:31 am Just one guys opinion but the writer who covers G5 conferences for the Athletic was asked a question about what 10-14 G5 schools would you like to see form a football conference to compete with P5 conferences and he came up with Cincinnati, UCF, Houston, Memphis, Navy, Boise State, San Diego State, Marshall, Appalachian State, Louisiana, Buffalo, BYU. he cited a record of success, fan bases, resources and facilities/infrastructure as his basis for consideration. He noted that obviously geographically that would never work but it does give you some idea of the perception of the G5 pecking order nationally.
Now ya know why he writes for the athletic...out of all listed, there are two to four TV markets worth a krap...outside of the MTN and left coast time zones, no body gives a rats azz about byu,san deigo st, boise st..per Nielsen .the only two big markets are Orlando-18 and Houston-8...memphis-51 and Cincy-38 are large mkts....san diego is 29 Salt Lake 30 boise is 102, but their central / east coast viewership is almost at zero...lafayette 123...buffalo is 52, thanks to the canadians watching... Marshall is not even listed
He qualified his picks by saying it was based on football considerations only as they apply to factors mentioned above which do not include TV ratings. Also said could not work geographically.
I'm surprised he included Navy but not Army. Army has a pretty decent fan base, NYC TV market, and arguably the best G5 stadium in the country.
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Bicoastalwave wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:36 am I know better then to try people’s minds on an internet message board, especially Tulane fans. But I think what we have seen in these threads recently is rather indicative of why there is lack of growth from the user base & posters here (and on the other board for that matter). I’ll check in and see what the gripes are whenever we win the aac championship (not enough teams in the top 10, not the sec etc). Some people just often default to the negative outlook and are the rain cloud over the proverbial parade. The old expression: “misery loves company”, seems to be rather fitting. Enjoy gentlemen
I think you're being hard on those of us that are realistic. Has the program improved? Absolutely. But some of us want more. And some of us expect more after 5 years. I don't think you'll hear a gripe out of anyone if/when we win the AAC. We haven't, and even in the year we tied for the Western Division lead, we haven't really been close to winning the conference.
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Just catching up here. Guess I need to go listen to this episode...
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Good listen.

I agree with him on a lot of things.
Disagree with him on many things.

There's this consistent mention of the Tulane fringe. And yes, the majority of that "fringe" posts on this board. But let's be real, the Tulane fan base across the board (not this board) is minuscule. So my argument/position would be are we really a "fringe" when in fact we represent close to a majority of the fan base?

Anyway, he's a blogger. And is welcome to post here. I'll support and link up with anyone who actively promotes and talks Tulane athletics. (Campus Connection, Fear The Wave, The Greenbackers, etc). Now I don't necessarily want to hop on a podcast, but would do so if called on. But that's the thing, no one from the "fringe" is ever called on to give their perspective. We are just talked about, never spoken to.

But that's fine. We don't toe the line, We don't sugarcoat. We don't accept average and mediocre. We demand (and are still waiting for) championships. We are the type of fans that other successful schools have. (Our boards are TAME compared to other schools.)

Many fans (even many posters here) don't fully understand the reason this board was created almost 10 years ago. From the leaking of certain information, to organized demonstrations, to purposely worded topics. The administration, the media, the players, the coaches are all watching. They have been for 10 years. Don't let up. And keep pushing for the Tulane team that you want. No one else does.
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Well said Steve. Thanks again for creating site.
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Strong fan bases build strong programs and keep programs going through down years. Yes, the years of deemphasizing athletics hurt and decreased the fan base, yes it is hard to build it back takes time. But with the leadership of Dannen and more emphasis on Athletics we need to speed up the recovery of the fan base if we want to keep moving up the ladder. Recruits and families see and hear the negativity on this and other forums. They see small crowds that should be much bigger. Fans have to be a salesman for their programs and weed through this negativity. Parents want to surround their kids in positivity and its up to the fan base to lead the way. There are quiet internal ways to voice disapproval, calls, emails etc. to the Athletic Department and the University. Being loudmouth or know it all on these forums makes you look good or bad but does not help the program moving forward. We can all voice disproval to the Athletic Dept. in many quiet ways, but we don't need to air our dirty laundry in public. ULL has not always been a winner but their fanbase has always been more solid than ours, lets take note and learn. Bottom line it takes money to hire and keep coaches and build better facilities, But the Athletic Program must see payback soon to keep investing. Long term no one throws good money down a endless hole!!!
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