Who's next if we lose WF and Hall

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winwave
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greenphantom wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:30 pm
winwave wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:17 pm Wasn’t premature then . It was being talked about nationally. This is a fan message board. Of course it was going to be talked about here too.
We’ll have to agree to disagree but the point of people saying that it was premature in early October wasn’t meant to imply that Fritz wouldn’t be a
candidate for other coaching jobs after the season ended. It was meant that he wasn’t a candidate at that time as there weren’t any job vacancies in week 4 and that nothing would happen until after the regular season once the bigger schools started firing their coaches and looking at potential replacements which is where we are at now.
Phantom- it wasn’t about him being a candidate. The point was it was being talked about in the national media and the local media so of course it was going to be discussed on Tulane fan forums. Common sense gives people who follow college football a feel for what jobs will open and who may be in line to get them. The discussion had begun. No two ways about it.


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winwave
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DrBox wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:30 pm
winwave wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:37 am If coaches are going to go it should be the DC and the WR coach. The OL is still a weakness which is why we have put such an emphasis on them in this recruiting class. However while still subpar they weren't as bad this season as they had been. It was Kennedy's first year with the group.
The WR coach needs to move along. Very little development at all in that group. A couple of others should as well.
OL coach did a good job; it was a competent line despite a questionable talent base.

It wasn't just 6-5 (he didn't have the 6th loss until after he got the job) that sent Mack to North Carolina. It was also that he was one of the most touted up and coming coaches in the country prior to coming to Tulane, plus his pedigree as DC at LSU and Oklahoma, and his recruiting. Fritz lacks all of that but he does have a wining pedigree at lower levels which helps his case.
We couldn't dump Scelfo on someone else after his 6-5 nor after his 8-5 and CJ's 7-6. didn't get calls either. But Rick Dickson did give Scelfo a contract extension after that 6-5 season.
No doubt Mack had other things going for him but he still had only been at this level 3 years and only won 6. The perception of Tulane football after all these years is a lot worse. Having said that I don’t see him getting these jobs but I can see that elsewhere they may see what he did here as monumental.
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Speaking of Arkansas, I recall being blown away that they hired Chad Morris after just a 14-22 record at SMU so crazy things can happen.
Bicoastalwave
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I am please with the position Tulane is in (minus how they may adversely effect our recruiting class). We are no longer a dumpster fire or graveyard for coaches. If fritz leaves I feel confident in the candidates available and the ad. If he stays (which I believe he will) I feel good about our progress. Our biggest problem Was offensive play calling- check fixed. Then it was recruiting/jimmies and Joe’s . . . Which Also has Been fixed. I don’t think fritz is going anywhere, and if we do weather the storm with Kansas/KAnsas State/Arkansas/Ole Miss/Missouri Filled Vacancies I feel very good at our ability to hold onto fritz long term if it works out.
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Bicoastalwave wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:26 pm I am please with the position Tulane is in (minus how they may adversely effect our recruiting class). We are no longer a dumpster fire or graveyard for coaches. If fritz leaves I feel confident in the candidates available and the ad. If he stays (which I believe he will) I feel good about our progress. Our biggest problem Was offensive play calling- check fixed. Then it was recruiting/jimmies and Joe’s . . . Which Also has Been fixed. I don’t think fritz is going anywhere, and if we do weather the storm with Kansas/KAnsas State/Arkansas/Ole Miss/Missouri Filled Vacancies I feel very good at our ability to hold onto fritz long term if it works out.

I agree with this. Dannen was able to find someone the caliber of Fritz when it was a far less appealing job 4 years ago. Fritz did a very good (not great) job relative to what he stepped into. If he parlays this into his so called "dream job", then good for him. Just about everyone wins.

IF we have to hire a new coach, my hope is that a renewed emphasis on finding and/or developing the next great quarterback at Tulane will be a top priority.
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puffy wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:10 am
Bicoastalwave wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:26 pm I am please with the position Tulane is in (minus how they may adversely effect our recruiting class). We are no longer a dumpster fire or graveyard for coaches. If fritz leaves I feel confident in the candidates available and the ad. If he stays (which I believe he will) I feel good about our progress. Our biggest problem Was offensive play calling- check fixed. Then it was recruiting/jimmies and Joe’s . . . Which Also has Been fixed. I don’t think fritz is going anywhere, and if we do weather the storm with Kansas/KAnsas State/Arkansas/Ole Miss/Missouri Filled Vacancies I feel very good at our ability to hold onto fritz long term if it works out.

I agree with this. Dannen was able to find someone the caliber of Fritz when it was a far less appealing job 4 years ago. Fritz did a very good (not great) job relative to what he stepped into. If he parlays this into his so called "dream job", then good for him. Just about everyone wins.

IF we have to hire a new coach, my hope is that a renewed emphasis on finding and/or developing the next great quarterback at Tulane will be a top priority.
The issue is that Tulane still appears to be a tough job. If the football program whisperer Fritz topped out at back to back 6-6 seasons in seasons 3 and 4, that doesn't leave a good sense of confidence in the program for the next coach. Further, there won't be a coach with a resume similar to Fritz's interested in coming to Tulane, so Tulane will be in the same position as other programs in the AAC with P5 coordinators generally being the most likely candidates. Tulane could think outside the box and hire an FCS head coach (i.e. ECU or Kansas State) or a non-AAC G5 head coach (i.e. like Fritz), but that may be a tough sell with what Fritz was able to do (6-6 x2) given his resume.
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Aberzombie1892 wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:39 am
puffy wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:10 am
Bicoastalwave wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:26 pm I am please with the position Tulane is in (minus how they may adversely effect our recruiting class). We are no longer a dumpster fire or graveyard for coaches. If fritz leaves I feel confident in the candidates available and the ad. If he stays (which I believe he will) I feel good about our progress. Our biggest problem Was offensive play calling- check fixed. Then it was recruiting/jimmies and Joe’s . . . Which Also has Been fixed. I don’t think fritz is going anywhere, and if we do weather the storm with Kansas/KAnsas State/Arkansas/Ole Miss/Missouri Filled Vacancies I feel very good at our ability to hold onto fritz long term if it works out.

I agree with this. Dannen was able to find someone the caliber of Fritz when it was a far less appealing job 4 years ago. Fritz did a very good (not great) job relative to what he stepped into. If he parlays this into his so called "dream job", then good for him. Just about everyone wins.

IF we have to hire a new coach, my hope is that a renewed emphasis on finding and/or developing the next great quarterback at Tulane will be a top priority.
The issue is that Tulane still appears to be a tough job. If the football program whisperer Fritz topped out at back to back 6-6 seasons in seasons 3 and 4, that doesn't leave a good sense of confidence in the program for the next coach. Further, there won't be a coach with a resume similar to Fritz's interested in coming to Tulane, so Tulane will be in the same position as other programs in the AAC with P5 coordinators generally being the most likely candidates. Tulane could think outside the box and hire an FCS head coach (i.e. ECU or Kansas State) or a non-AAC G5 head coach (i.e. like Fritz), but that may be a tough sell with what Fritz was able to do (6-6 x2) given his resume.
This. Fritz leaving now says "well, i've done all I can do here, on to the next one". That can't inspire much confidence in a future potential hire
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squilz wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:01 pm This. Fritz leaving now says "well, i've done all I can do here, on to the next one". That can't inspire much confidence in a future potential hire
No it doesn't. It screams "I've gotten noticed at Tulane and can double or triple my salary for my last few years of coaching before retirement." Also, the program is in MUCH better shape talent wise than it was 4 years ago. It's a better job than it was when Dannen found Fritz, no doubt.
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It amazes me how many negative people are on this board. I've been a fan for almost 40 years, so I understand the mentality but we have got to at least try to look at the bigger picture...the brighter picture:

1. We have a university president and board who appreciate athletics
2. We have a positive director of athletics who has a vision
3. Although we didn't live up to lofty expectations after starting 5-1, we are still a vastly better program than 4 years ago

Big picture people...if CWF leaves, if we lose recruits, etc....sunny days are still ahead.
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austxwave wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:16 pm It amazes me how many negative people are on this board. I've been a fan for almost 40 years, so I understand the mentality but we have got to at least try to look at the bigger picture...the brighter picture:

1. We have a university president and board who appreciate athletics
2. We have a positive director of athletics who has a vision
3. Although we didn't live up to lofty expectations after starting 5-1, we are still a vastly better program than 4 years ago

Big picture people...if CWF leaves, if we lose recruits, etc....sunny days are still ahead.
+1, Eamon Kelly's "Tulane Model" is no more and unlike under Cowen (Scelfo, 350K; Toledo 450K; CJ 650K), the new president and board is willing to pay a genuine Div. 1 salary for our coach. And, the AAC is a real step up from the "other G5s." If WF does leave, we will promptly hire a quality replacement for him. 8-) 8-) 8-)
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DfromCT wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:07 pm
squilz wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:01 pm This. Fritz leaving now says "well, i've done all I can do here, on to the next one". That can't inspire much confidence in a future potential hire
No it doesn't. It screams "I've gotten noticed at Tulane and can double or triple my salary for my last few years of coaching before retirement." Also, the program is in MUCH better shape talent wise than it was 4 years ago. It's a better job than it was when Dannen found Fritz, no doubt.
It's not an unreasonable interpretation given the context - the context that he's been super successful everywhere within the first few years and he's petered out at 6-6 at Tulane in years 3 and 4. Given his past successes, he is definitively off track at Tulane and it would be difficult for third party to look at the situation and say that is more likely his fault than Tulane's fault.
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Aberzombie1892 wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:40 pm
DfromCT wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:07 pm
squilz wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:01 pm This. Fritz leaving now says "well, i've done all I can do here, on to the next one". That can't inspire much confidence in a future potential hire
No it doesn't. It screams "I've gotten noticed at Tulane and can double or triple my salary for my last few years of coaching before retirement." Also, the program is in MUCH better shape talent wise than it was 4 years ago. It's a better job than it was when Dannen found Fritz, no doubt.
It's not an unreasonable interpretation given the context - the context that he's been super successful everywhere within the first few years and he's petered out at 6-6 at Tulane in years 3 and 4. Given his past successes, he is definitively off track at Tulane and it would be difficult for third party to look at the situation and say that is more likely his fault than Tulane's fault.
I can buy that.

I can also say that "Fritz can only get to 6 wins with his coaching philosophy when he gets to a higher level." Just as Buddy T couldn't win at Tulane, he's been very successful going back to the FCS level. Fritz hasn't shown that he can win consistently at the (arguably) highest G5 level. Why would an AD think he can do so at a P5?

I think Fritz interviewing for P5 jobs is about money, not about thinking he cannot win more than 6 at Tulane.
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DfromCT wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:47 pm
Aberzombie1892 wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:40 pm
DfromCT wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:07 pm
squilz wrote: Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:01 pm This. Fritz leaving now says "well, i've done all I can do here, on to the next one". That can't inspire much confidence in a future potential hire
No it doesn't. It screams "I've gotten noticed at Tulane and can double or triple my salary for my last few years of coaching before retirement." Also, the program is in MUCH better shape talent wise than it was 4 years ago. It's a better job than it was when Dannen found Fritz, no doubt.
It's not an unreasonable interpretation given the context - the context that he's been super successful everywhere within the first few years and he's petered out at 6-6 at Tulane in years 3 and 4. Given his past successes, he is definitively off track at Tulane and it would be difficult for third party to look at the situation and say that is more likely his fault than Tulane's fault.
I can buy that.

I can also say that "Fritz can only get to 6 wins with his coaching philosophy when he gets to a higher level." Just as Buddy T couldn't win at Tulane, he's been very successful going back to the FCS level. Fritz hasn't shown that he can win consistently at the (arguably) highest G5 level. Why would an AD think he can do so at a P5?

I think Fritz interviewing for P5 jobs is about money, not about thinking he cannot win more than 6 at Tulane.
It's got to be. And specifically about the money over the next three years. He'll struggle to win more than six games a year at Mizzou or Arky.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
winwave
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winwave wrote: Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:37 am If coaches are going to go it should be the DC and the WR coach. The OL is still a weakness which is why we have put such an emphasis on them in this recruiting class. However while still subpar they weren't as bad this season as they had been. It was Kennedy's first year with the group.
I should have included the S&C coach in that post. People I trust say there are issues with the program and that even some players are unhappy with it. The only thing I'd point out is the weight room facilities are sub par so hard to tell if that's on him or on how he runs the program.
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I thought s&c coach was highly regarded ? I guess the renovated weight room didn’t do much ?

I think coaches and P5 programs when looking at fritz’s 6-6 Tulane Will say, “Tulane is a challenging place to win . . . Or maybe Its fritz’s d3 & fcs experiance don’t work when playing with the big boys” (and they’ll rub their belly’s and laugh).
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Bicoastalwave
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I just read an article that not a single P5 program has contacted UAB coach Bill Clark. I’m glad ! With Napier likely getting a P5 gig, I would put Bill Clark as my #1 choice to replace Fritz (if he leaves) and Will hall a few spots lower.
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Funny how Napier has become a much hotter commodity than Coach Fritz. Both programs will always be a stepping stone, but Coach Fritz, with his age and offensive philosophy is going to have a tough time every year convincing a P5 to hire him. And again, I stress, he and Will Hall haven't done enough to warrant consideration of a P5 job.
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D- I think everyone agrees they haven't done enough at this point. That doesn't mean that they won't be considered. As I have posted earlier many outside of us diehards see the Tulane job in such a negative light that any progress here can be spun to be so much more than it really is.
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24/7 has WH possible going to FSU to join Norvell
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tpstulane wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:15 am 24/7 has WH possible going to FSU to join Norvell
and by pass Rich Rod...stop the madness !!!...that said if Hall is gone, I have zero issue with that, today his O concept is everywhere...just ask Todd Dodge
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DfromCT
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I really was high on Will Hall the first half of the season, but the second half he showed me nothing. You have to build on your offense, and he did not. The offense was INCREDIBLY predictable, you could call the plays based on formations and motions. It was a hell of a lot better than last year, but stagnated in a very big way.

My bigger concern with the possibility of losing Hall is that he'll take recruits with him. I hope he returns, and puts some twists into the offense. If we run the same plays without any creativity, you can bet USM will know what's coming just as most of us do watching.
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Hall ran one trick play against Houston that brought him notoriety. Other than that he showed me nothing. Our quarterback regressed as the season went along. Hall admitted after the Auburn game that he did a poor job with the play calling and he admitted before the SMU game that he did a poor job using Jalen McClesky all season. At the least, I'll credit Hall for admitting the glaring mistakes he made that were obvious from the untrained football observer like myself.
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So is it safe to say we kept our entire coaching staff intact ?
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JerseyWave wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 3:18 pm Hall ran one trick play against Houston that brought him notoriety. Other than that he showed me nothing. Our quarterback regressed as the season went along. Hall admitted after the Auburn game that he did a poor job with the play calling and he admitted before the SMU game that he did a poor job using Jalen McClesky all season. At the least, I'll credit Hall for admitting the glaring mistakes he made that were obvious from the untrained football observer like myself.
I agree with most of your points. But also have to point out that our offense, though predictable after we'd seen it a few games, was LIGHT YEARS better than what we ran under Ruse. The stats bear that out as well, we increased our scoring and yardage by a wide margin.

I hope to hell we add a few things USM hasn't seen on any of our tapes. I could pretty much call the play based upon formation and motion after the 3rd or 4th game. If I can, you know the players that watch a whole lot more tape (on the opposition) can do so as well.
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