SMU to the ACC/PAC-12 discussions

[arkhou02]

We are going to be fine. Keep winning, keep investing, keep fighting, keep busy, keep hope. All of us share these values. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t be supporting this program for the majority of our lives. We don’t give up. Roll Wave!!!

[NOLABigSteve]

We are not stupid like SMU, the millions they are giving to other schools is fools gold. Prostituting is not what Tulane is about. After the death penalty it showed what extent SMU would go to, when all is said and done lets see if SMU comes out clean or if they had some illegal things going on once again. It will come back to burn all three schools in the end watch we will have the last laugh.

Same thing with Colorado and Sanders that is not Tulane or Willie kicking players off the team in some cases without a phone call. Sanders left the majority of the student athletes from Colorado last year to fend for themselves prostituting for a Power 5 Conference. He kicked these student athletes coldly under the bus, Tulane has respect and will continue treating its student athletes with respect and caring. I hope to believe Tulane's way will win in the long term even thought it will take longer. I would have big problems being an SMU or Colorado fan after the way they got where they are. I have been a Tulane fan since the 60's and remain proud of our Greenies, yes they have made mistakes but advancement without pride and respect is no advancement at all, keep winning the right way greenies and Coach Fritz.

Colorado and SMU are both in power conferences. They are both being talked about for being creative, acting outside the box, and going to the extremes to reach their goals.

They are where we wish we were. It's attitude's like yours that has kept us on the outside looking in.

[anEngineer]

Some feel differently, but I would not want Tulane to do what SMU did. There are other ways to get there with a lot less risk.

[HoustonWave]

Some feel differently, but I would not want Tulane to do what SMU did. There are other ways to get there with a lot less risk.

If there are other ways, we sure haven't found any of them. What SMU did was work the problem very hard. And when necessary was able to rally their alums and fans to provide the needed support to make it happen. I can only dream and wish that Tulane could do that.

[golfnut69]

Some feel differently, but I would not want Tulane to do what SMU did. There are other ways to get there with a lot less risk.

If there are other ways, we sure haven't found any of them. What SMU did was work the problem very hard. And when necessary was able to rally their alums and fans to provide the needed support to make it happen. I can only dream and wish that Tulane could do that.

part of Tulanes problems are the NOLA politics, they could give a rats azz less about Tulane...as long as nola can host a decadence festival once a year they are happy

[HoustonWave]

Some feel differently, but I would not want Tulane to do what SMU did. There are other ways to get there with a lot less risk.

If there are other ways, we sure haven't found any of them. What SMU did was work the problem very hard. And when necessary was able to rally their alums and fans to provide the needed support to make it happen. I can only dream and wish that Tulane could do that.

part of Tulanes problems are the NOLA politics, they could give a rats azz less about Tulane...as long as nola can host a decadence festival once a year they are happy

While the attractiveness of NOLA is often highlighted as to why students want to attend Tulane, in the long run, being located in NOLA has become a hinderance for Tulane. Political corruption, lack of political support for Tulane, an economy that has been eroding for 50 years now, never-ending hurricane risks, crime, an inability to keep graduates in NOLA, the list goes on and on.

[HoustonWave]

The challenge with all this is that SMU is more valuable to the ACC than Tulane is (i.e. Dallas, Texas), so the seemingly common assumption in this thread that if Tulane made the same offer as SMU (and has the same facilities as SMU) it would be met with the same acceptance by the ACC may not actually be reflective of reality. Given that the ACC has stopped at an odd number, it seems fairly clear that they aren't looking to expand unless they perceive value (i.e. more than just giving up media payouts) independently from what a program may or may not be willing to give up.

And that "SMU value" was repeatedly defined and explained to ACC reps and officials by their President, AD and Chairman of their BOT, for over a year, in literally dozens of one-on-few meetings. But even then, as the SMU Chairman explained to the 12 mega-donors, "it all comes down to the money". So the task at hand for Tulane or any other G5, is you have to build on personal relationships within the conference you are targeting and lobby your head off--explaining why adding a Tulane would be beneficial, and if all that actual succeeds, you have to be ready to take a financial groin shot to still get the votes you need. Sadly, I have little confidence that Tulane leadership would every approach the effort that SMU leaders have put forth over the past year. SMU wasn't just transparent about their efforts so as to publicly beat their chest-- it was because it would be impossible to do what they did in a "cone of silence".

We are not stupid like SMU, the millions they are giving to other schools is fools gold. Prostituting is not what Tulane is about. After the death penalty it showed what extent SMU would go to, when all is said and done lets see if SMU comes out clean or if they had some illegal things going on once again. It will come back to burn all three schools in the end watch we will have the last laugh.

Same thing with Colorado and Sanders that is not Tulane or Willie kicking players off the team in some cases without a phone call. Sanders left the majority of the student athletes from Colorado last year to fend for themselves prostituting for a Power 5 Conference. He kicked these student athletes coldly under the bus, Tulane has respect and will continue treating its student athletes with respect and caring. I hope to believe Tulane's way will win in the long term even thought it will take longer. I would have big problems being an SMU or Colorado fan after the way they got where they are. I have been a Tulane fan since the 60's and remain proud of our Greenies, yes they have made mistakes but advancement without pride and respect is no advancement at all, keep winning the right way greenies and Coach Fritz.

Hey gb, try to stick to one topic per post--CU Buffs? really? SMU isn't giving up anything that they weren't getting already (ie $30MM per year in media revenue). You can't give up what you've never had.
Additionally, their annual share of the ACC performance pot may well exceed what they have been getting from their AAC media split. Many express concerns that they can't compete with schools that are receiving $30+ MM more per year in media revenue--are we not at a similar and constant disadvantage every time we play a P5 school? Fortunately, we have recently demonstrated that a G5 can compete and win without the additional tens of millions of dollars of revenue that our opponents may be receiving. And if SMU needs some additional financial support to compete in the ACC, their alums have been rallied to provide it. In the end, their approach have put them in The Club--ours hasn't.

[tpstulane]

SMU continues to get national media praise for their bold move to P5
https://theathletic.com/4841547/2023/09 ... ed_article

“We got it done.”

Thirty-five years after SMU football’s “Death Penalty” and 29 years after the Southwest Conference dissolved, SMU will be back in a top-tier conference when it joins the ACC next summer.

“We’re finally back where we belong,” said David B. Miller, SMU’s board chair and a major donor who played basketball at the school (and whose name is on the court).

SMU joined the bloated 18-team WAC, then Conference USA. Then it watched rival TCU win a Rose Bowl and earn a Big 12 invitation. By the time SMU joined the Big East in 2013, the conference had been reformed into the American Athletic Conference and lost its BCS status.

“It felt like purgatory,” Matula said of those two decades.

“They had a strong sales pitch,” ACC commissioner Jim Phillips said. “They were really well organized and strong in their beliefs about SMU. It was done professionally.”

[winwave]

And that "SMU value" was repeatedly defined and explained to ACC reps and officials by their President, AD and Chairman of their BOT, for over a year, in literally dozens of one-on-few meetings. But even then, as the SMU Chairman explained to the 12 mega-donors, "it all comes down to the money". So the task at hand for Tulane or any other G5, is you have to build on personal relationships within the conference you are targeting and lobby your head off--explaining why adding a Tulane would be beneficial, and if all that actual succeeds, you have to be ready to take a financial groin shot to still get the votes you need. Sadly, I have little confidence that Tulane leadership would every approach the effort that SMU leaders have put forth over the past year. SMU wasn't just transparent about their efforts so as to publicly beat their chest-- it was because it would be impossible to do what they did in a "cone of silence".

We are not stupid like SMU, the millions they are giving to other schools is fools gold. Prostituting is not what Tulane is about. After the death penalty it showed what extent SMU would go to, when all is said and done lets see if SMU comes out clean or if they had some illegal things going on once again. It will come back to burn all three schools in the end watch we will have the last laugh.

Same thing with Colorado and Sanders that is not Tulane or Willie kicking players off the team in some cases without a phone call. Sanders left the majority of the student athletes from Colorado last year to fend for themselves prostituting for a Power 5 Conference. He kicked these student athletes coldly under the bus, Tulane has respect and will continue treating its student athletes with respect and caring. I hope to believe Tulane's way will win in the long term even thought it will take longer. I would have big problems being an SMU or Colorado fan after the way they got where they are. I have been a Tulane fan since the 60's and remain proud of our Greenies, yes they have made mistakes but advancement without pride and respect is no advancement at all, keep winning the right way greenies and Coach Fritz.

Hey gb, try to stick to one topic per post--CU Buffs? really? SMU isn't giving up anything that they weren't getting already (ie $30MM per year in media revenue). You can't give up what you've never had.
Additionally, their annual share of the ACC performance pot may well exceed what they have been getting from their AAC media split. Many express concerns that they can't compete with schools that are receiving $30+ MM more per year in media revenue--are we not at a similar and constant disadvantage every time we play a P5 school? Fortunately, we have recently demonstrated that a G5 can compete and win without the additional tens of millions of dollars of revenue that our opponents may be receiving. And if SMU needs some additional financial support to compete in the ACC, their alums have been rallied to provide it. In the end, their approach have put them in The Club--ours hasn't.

Don't forget they are not losing out on that TV revenue. Their pitch was based on donors putting up $300 million over that 9 year period to make up for that revenue.

[Greeniegb]

We are not stupid like SMU, the millions they are giving to other schools is fools gold. Prostituting is not what Tulane is about. After the death penalty it showed what extent SMU would go to, when all is said and done lets see if SMU comes out clean or if they had some illegal things going on once again. It will come back to burn all three schools in the end watch we will have the last laugh.

Same thing with Colorado and Sanders that is not Tulane or Willie kicking players off the team in some cases without a phone call. Sanders left the majority of the student athletes from Colorado last year to fend for themselves prostituting for a Power 5 Conference. He kicked these student athletes coldly under the bus, Tulane has respect and will continue treating its student athletes with respect and caring. I hope to believe Tulane's way will win in the long term even thought it will take longer. I would have big problems being an SMU or Colorado fan after the way they got where they are. I have been a Tulane fan since the 60's and remain proud of our Greenies, yes they have made mistakes but advancement without pride and respect is no advancement at all, keep winning the right way greenies and Coach Fritz.

Colorado and SMU are both in power conferences. They are both being talked about for being creative, acting outside the box, and going to the extremes to reach their goals.

They are where we wish we were. It's attitude's like yours that has kept us on the outside looking in.

Now that is stupid, just like electing a felon as President, sick as society has become. We are dealing with kids going to college. You need to read about the abuse of student athletes at Colorado, Told by 3rd parties they are no longer on the team, not even a decent phone call. Sander's went and hid letting others break the news to these student athletes. Sad part after abusing these student athletes Sanders will be moving on to bigger and better things in the future!!! I don't think alot of us long time Tulane fans want the University or coaches to stoop as low as Sanders did. In the end when recruiting in the future what student athletes or parents could trust a single word that comes out of Sanders mouth.

He didn't get a chance': Why Deion Sanders' roster purge at Colorado has shown no mercy

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2 ... 748835002/

[golfnut69]

We are not stupid like SMU, the millions they are giving to other schools is fools gold. Prostituting is not what Tulane is about. After the death penalty it showed what extent SMU would go to, when all is said and done lets see if SMU comes out clean or if they had some illegal things going on once again. It will come back to burn all three schools in the end watch we will have the last laugh.

Same thing with Colorado and Sanders that is not Tulane or Willie kicking players off the team in some cases without a phone call. Sanders left the majority of the student athletes from Colorado last year to fend for themselves prostituting for a Power 5 Conference. He kicked these student athletes coldly under the bus, Tulane has respect and will continue treating its student athletes with respect and caring. I hope to believe Tulane's way will win in the long term even thought it will take longer. I would have big problems being an SMU or Colorado fan after the way they got where they are. I have been a Tulane fan since the 60's and remain proud of our Greenies, yes they have made mistakes but advancement without pride and respect is no advancement at all, keep winning the right way greenies and Coach Fritz.

Colorado and SMU are both in power conferences. They are both being talked about for being creative, acting outside the box, and going to the extremes to reach their goals.

They are where we wish we were. It's attitude's like yours that has kept us on the outside looking in.

Now that is stupid, just like electing a felon as President, sick as society has become. We are dealing with kids going to college. You need to read about the abuse of student athletes at Colorado, Told by 3rd parties they are no longer on the team, not even a decent phone call. Sander's went and hid letting others break the news to these student athletes. Sad part after abusing these student athletes Sanders will be moving on to bigger and better things in the future!!! I don't think alot of us long time Tulane fans want the University or coaches to stoop as low as Sanders did. In the end when recruiting in the future what student athletes or parents could trust a single word that comes out of Sanders mouth.

He didn't get a chance': Why Deion Sanders' roster purge at Colorado has shown no mercy

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2 ... 748835002/

I am all for felons being elected...at least they know who the criminals are

[DfromCT]

Some feel differently, but I would not want Tulane to do what SMU did. There are other ways to get there with a lot less risk.

If there are other ways, we sure haven't found any of them. What SMU did was work the problem very hard. And when necessary was able to rally their alums and fans to provide the needed support to make it happen. I can only dream and wish that Tulane could do that.

I would want to get there the way SMU did or any other way. We don't do the things needed, SMU did. And it's not our money that's being invested by their alumni to make it happen, nor is it our money that probably now exceeds $1 BILLION that Cowen left on the table, He decided that being a thorn in the side of Big Money Football rather than taking the steps that would have had us in a Pee by the turn of the century was the right thing to do.

As someone said above, it's these ridiculous "we're better than that" attitudes that has Tulane where we are. Our own worst enemy and on the outside looking in!

[golfnut69]

Some feel differently, but I would not want Tulane to do what SMU did. There are other ways to get there with a lot less risk.

If there are other ways, we sure haven't found any of them. What SMU did was work the problem very hard. And when necessary was able to rally their alums and fans to provide the needed support to make it happen. I can only dream and wish that Tulane could do that.

I would want to get there the way SMU did or any other way. We don't do the things needed, SMU did. And it's not our money that's being invested by their alumni to make it happen, nor is it our money that probably now exceeds $1 BILLION that Cowen left on the table by being a thorn in the side of Big Money Football rather than taking the steps that would have had us in a Pee by the turn of the century.

As someone said above, it's these ridiculous "we're better than that" attitudes that has Tulane where we are. Our own worst enemy and on the outside looking in!

" we have seen the enemy, and it is US" !

[HoustonWave]

Some feel differently, but I would not want Tulane to do what SMU did. There are other ways to get there with a lot less risk.

If there are other ways, we sure haven't found any of them. What SMU did was work the problem very hard. And when necessary was able to rally their alums and fans to provide the needed support to make it happen. I can only dream and wish that Tulane could do that.

I would want to get there the way SMU did or any other way. We don't do the things needed, SMU did. And it's not our money that's being invested by their alumni to make it happen, nor is it our money that probably now exceeds $1 BILLION that Cowen left on the table by being a thorn in the side of Big Money Football rather than taking the steps that would have had us in a Pee by the turn of the century.

As someone said above, it's these ridiculous "we're better than that" attitudes that has Tulane where we are. Our own worst enemy and on the outside looking in!

Amen. It has been, and continues to be the Tulane attitude--that we somehow have a different and better way. We don't.

[golfnut69]

If there are other ways, we sure haven't found any of them. What SMU did was work the problem very hard. And when necessary was able to rally their alums and fans to provide the needed support to make it happen. I can only dream and wish that Tulane could do that.

I would want to get there the way SMU did or any other way. We don't do the things needed, SMU did. And it's not our money that's being invested by their alumni to make it happen, nor is it our money that probably now exceeds $1 BILLION that Cowen left on the table by being a thorn in the side of Big Money Football rather than taking the steps that would have had us in a Pee by the turn of the century.

As someone said above, it's these ridiculous "we're better than that" attitudes that has Tulane where we are. Our own worst enemy and on the outside looking in!

Amen. It has been, and continues to be the Tulane attitude--that we somehow have a different and better way. We don't.

with the next round of disaligment, Tulane will ride off into the sunset, I mean Sun Belt, or into that Good Night.....

[HoustonWave]

We are not stupid like SMU, the millions they are giving to other schools is fools gold. Prostituting is not what Tulane is about. After the death penalty it showed what extent SMU would go to, when all is said and done lets see if SMU comes out clean or if they had some illegal things going on once again. It will come back to burn all three schools in the end watch we will have the last laugh.

Same thing with Colorado and Sanders that is not Tulane or Willie kicking players off the team in some cases without a phone call. Sanders left the majority of the student athletes from Colorado last year to fend for themselves prostituting for a Power 5 Conference. He kicked these student athletes coldly under the bus, Tulane has respect and will continue treating its student athletes with respect and caring. I hope to believe Tulane's way will win in the long term even thought it will take longer. I would have big problems being an SMU or Colorado fan after the way they got where they are. I have been a Tulane fan since the 60's and remain proud of our Greenies, yes they have made mistakes but advancement without pride and respect is no advancement at all, keep winning the right way greenies and Coach Fritz.

Hey gb, try to stick to one topic per post--CU Buffs? really? SMU isn't giving up anything that they weren't getting already (ie $30MM per year in media revenue). You can't give up what you've never had.
Additionally, their annual share of the ACC performance pot may well exceed what they have been getting from their AAC media split. Many express concerns that they can't compete with schools that are receiving $30+ MM more per year in media revenue--are we not at a similar and constant disadvantage every time we play a P5 school? Fortunately, we have recently demonstrated that a G5 can compete and win without the additional tens of millions of dollars of revenue that our opponents may be receiving. And if SMU needs some additional financial support to compete in the ACC, their alums have been rallied to provide it. In the end, their approach have put them in The Club--ours hasn't.

Don't forget they are not losing out on that TV revenue. Their pitch was based on donors putting up $300 million over that 9 year period to make up for that revenue.

True. Thanks to their alum support they probably won't be at a financial disadvantage, compared to the other ACC schools. But even if they were at a disadvantage, as Tulane likely would be, it's not an insurmountable obstacle as our 2022 season, and hopefully 2023 season, can demonstrate.

[Wave755]

I just can't help but think sooner rather than later the 3 "Big Boys" who voted "no" to ACC expansion, FSU, Clemson & UNC, are going to "rain of SMU's parade" by bolting for the P2. And, FSU's destruction of LSU on national television last Sunday night will serve to just hasten the departure of the Seminoles. That being said, SMU will then probably be joined in a diminished AAC by Tulane & Rice and for its yes vote SMU will, of course, be let out of its 9 year no media rights payment concession.

[GreenLantern]

I just can't help but think sooner rather than later the 3 "Big Boys" who voted "no" to ACC expansion, FSU, Clemson & UNC, are going to "rain of SMU's parade" by bolting for the P2. And, FSU's destruction of LSU on national television last Sunday night will serve to just hasten the departure of the Seminoles. That being said, SMU will then probably be joined in a diminished AAC by Tulane & Rice and for its yes vote SMU will, of course, be let out of its 9 year no media rights payment concession.

Your scenario would be more amusing if Tulane and Rice were granted admission with no media rights concession given to SMU. We would split a portion of SMU’s voluntary forfeiture for the next 7 years.

[HoustonWave]

I just can't help but think sooner rather than later the 3 "Big Boys" who voted "no" to ACC expansion, FSU, Clemson & UNC, are going to "rain of SMU's parade" by bolting for the P2. And, FSU's destruction of LSU on national television last Sunday night will serve to just hasten the departure of the Seminoles. That being said, SMU will then probably be joined in a diminished AAC by Tulane & Rice and for its yes vote SMU will, of course, be let out of its 9 year no media rights payment concession.

Your scenario would be more amusing if Tulane and Rice were granted admission with no media rights concession given to SMU. We would split a portion of SMU’s voluntary forfeiture for the next 7 years.

Or, we and Rice will be given the same 9-year term, take it or leave it. Rice can certainly make up the difference with their endowment, but can we? But on the other hand, we wouldn't be losing anything that we don't have anyway. Our share of the performance pot would likely equal or exceed our AAC media share. We can only hope for a similar offer.

[HoustonWave]

I just can't help but think sooner rather than later the 3 "Big Boys" who voted "no" to ACC expansion, FSU, Clemson & UNC, are going to "rain of SMU's parade" by bolting for the P2. And, FSU's destruction of LSU on national television last Sunday night will serve to just hasten the departure of the Seminoles. That being said, SMU will then probably be joined in a diminished AAC by Tulane & Rice and for its yes vote SMU will, of course, be let out of its 9 year no media rights payment concession.

You're scenario about FSU, Clemson, UNC and probably a few other ACC schools is quite possible. I suspect that SMU believes that major changes will occur long before their 9-year sacrifice has to actually be fulfilled. As far as Tulane getting an offer, it will probably take more than just forfeiting some ACC media revenue for a few years.

[winwave]

I just can't help but think sooner rather than later the 3 "Big Boys" who voted "no" to ACC expansion, FSU, Clemson & UNC, are going to "rain of SMU's parade" by bolting for the P2. And, FSU's destruction of LSU on national television last Sunday night will serve to just hasten the departure of the Seminoles. That being said, SMU will then probably be joined in a diminished AAC by Tulane & Rice and for its yes vote SMU will, of course, be let out of its 9 year no media rights payment concession.

Two things keeping that from happening- the iron clad GOR they have thru 2036 witht he ACC and the fact that neither the SEC or Big 10 has expressed any interest from them. Cry all they want but they have nowhere to go.

[arkhou02]

We will find a way. Just like we found a miracle last year. Don’t give up on this program.

[Wave755]

I just can't help but think sooner rather than later the 3 "Big Boys" who voted "no" to ACC expansion, FSU, Clemson & UNC, are going to "rain of SMU's parade" by bolting for the P2. And, FSU's destruction of LSU on national television last Sunday night will serve to just hasten the departure of the Seminoles. That being said, SMU will then probably be joined in a diminished AAC by Tulane & Rice and for its yes vote SMU will, of course, be let out of its 9 year no media rights payment concession.

You're scenario about FSU, Clemson, UNC and probably a few other ACC schools is quite possible. I suspect that SMU believes that major changes will occur long before their 9-year sacrifice has to actually be fulfilled. As far as Tulane getting an offer, it will probably take more than just forfeiting some ACC media revenue for a few years.

Without FSU, UNC & Clemson the ACC is just a basketball league.

[golfnut69]

I just can't help but think sooner rather than later the 3 "Big Boys" who voted "no" to ACC expansion, FSU, Clemson & UNC, are going to "rain of SMU's parade" by bolting for the P2. And, FSU's destruction of LSU on national television last Sunday night will serve to just hasten the departure of the Seminoles. That being said, SMU will then probably be joined in a diminished AAC by Tulane & Rice and for its yes vote SMU will, of course, be let out of its 9 year no media rights payment concession.

You're scenario about FSU, Clemson, UNC and probably a few other ACC schools is quite possible. I suspect that SMU believes that major changes will occur long before their 9-year sacrifice has to actually be fulfilled. As far as Tulane getting an offer, it will probably take more than just forfeiting some ACC media revenue for a few years.

Without FSU, UNC & Clemson the ACC is just a basketball league.

without Texas and Oklahoma, at least brand wise, so is the Big12

[tufinal4]

Tulane has a larger endowment than SMU, with several uber wealthy alumni. Our academic campus facilities (not athletics) are much better than SMU; I stayed right across from SMU's campus for the Cotton Bowl and got a first hand current look. These things provide all the evidence you need that can if we want to, you can't deny it.

Winwave is absolutely right, these ACC programs have nowhere to go. The SEC and Big 10 have been clear about not seeing the value (i.e. not being dilutive), where is the evidence they're bluffing. Which ACC program adds more value than their $70-80 million share of revenue from those conferences. Remember, Oregon & Wisconsin had to accept significantly reduced shares to get in. As soon as an ACC program has to do the same, leaving makes no financial sense, especially with the added revenue from 70% of Stanford, Cal & 100% of SMU's TV pot.