SEC vs NCAA

Discuss anything else athletic or non-athletic related that doesn't belong on the main Tulane athletics forum.
HoustonWave
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:33 pm

winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:30 pm
HoustonWave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:19 pm
winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:49 pm
Again not every single recruit is going to be getting deals much less large deals. I think you are overstating how many will get meaningful money out of this.
Go check the ESPN NIL list--many athletes, including G5's are signing contracts and endorsements. Most don't quote a dollar amount yet, but there is a lot of action going on--even non-revenue sports.

They are signing contracts but that doesn't mean they are getting money. Pratt has signed with one.
I strongly suspect they are getting money up front and/or the possibility of money in the future. Why else sign?


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winwave
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:37 pm

They sign with these new companies in the hopes of getting paid. The companies are an intermediary.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
HoustonWave
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:39 pm

winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:30 pm
HoustonWave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:19 pm
winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:49 pm
Again not every single recruit is going to be getting deals much less large deals. I think you are overstating how many will get meaningful money out of this.
Go check the ESPN NIL list--many athletes, including G5's are signing contracts and endorsements. Most don't quote a dollar amount yet, but there is a lot of action going on--even non-revenue sports.

They are signing contracts but that doesn't mean they are getting money. Pratt has signed with one.
Most contracts are signed with the expectation of some future benefit. I suspect each of these athletes expect some remuneration, and maybe a lot for many. Don't measure the rest of the collegiate world using a Tulane yardstick.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
winwave
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:45 pm

HoustonWave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:39 pm
winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:30 pm
HoustonWave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:19 pm


Go check the ESPN NIL list--many athletes, including G5's are signing contracts and endorsements. Most don't quote a dollar amount yet, but there is a lot of action going on--even non-revenue sports.

They are signing contracts but that doesn't mean they are getting money. Pratt has signed with one.
Most contracts are signed with the expectation of some future benefit. I suspect each of these athletes expect some remuneration, and maybe a lot for many. Don't measure the rest of the collegiate world using a Tulane yardstick.
I'm not. i'm explaining what's going on to you. Numerous new companies saw this coming and sprouted up. They aren't paying anything to them . They serve as an intermediary.. We'll see how many actually receive money much less big money.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
HoustonWave
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:49 pm

winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:45 pm
HoustonWave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:39 pm
winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:30 pm



They are signing contracts but that doesn't mean they are getting money. Pratt has signed with one.
Most contracts are signed with the expectation of some future benefit. I suspect each of these athletes expect some remuneration, and maybe a lot for many. Don't measure the rest of the collegiate world using a Tulane yardstick.
I'm not. i'm explaining what's going on to you. Numerous new companies saw this coming and sprouted up. They aren't paying anything to them . They serve as an intermediary.. We'll see how many actually receive money much less big money.
I gotcha. These are the "agents" that are lining up their clients. Ultimately, the involvement of agents will likely increase the amounts spent on what athletes can extract from universities and the NIL deals.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
winwave
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:06 pm

The players are going to find out about taxes and paying a % to these companies. That is even if they get paid at all.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:54 pm

winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 5:06 pm
The players are going to find out about taxes and paying a % to these companies. That is even if they get paid at all.
Basically what NFL rookies find out as well. Death and Taxes unfortunately the downside of life.
winwave
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:01 pm

Yep.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
HoustonWave
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:16 am

There is nothing to keep this madness from slipping down into the high school ranks. If not universities or their alums, agents will dole out some cash just to get high schoolers, and especially their overzealous parents, to sign on a dotted line.
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winwave
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 am

The universities can't make the payments.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
HoustonWave
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:22 am

winwave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 am
The universities can't make the payments.
The SCOTUS said otherwise. The NCAA, and presumably any conference, can’t limit “educational support” payments to the traditional tuition, books, fees, room and board,etc. All a school has to do is write a check and say they are providing “educational support”. Kavanaugh’s supplemental opinion all but invited a lawsuit to make that clear. What keeps any school from setting up a “work/study” arrangement with any athlete—big paycheck. token work.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:42 am

HoustonWave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:22 am
winwave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 am
The universities can't make the payments.
The SCOTUS said otherwise. The NCAA, and presumably any conference, can’t limit “educational support” payments to the traditional tuition, books, fees, room and board,etc. All a school has to do is write a check and say they are providing “educational support”. Kavanaugh’s supplemental opinion all but invited a lawsuit to make that clear. What keeps any school from setting up a “work/study” arrangement with any athlete—big paycheck. token work.
Exactly correct. There is no limit of support otherwise that would be unconstitutional.
winwave
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:11 am

HoustonWave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:22 am
winwave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 am
The universities can't make the payments.
The SCOTUS said otherwise. The NCAA, and presumably any conference, can’t limit “educational support” payments to the traditional tuition, books, fees, room and board,etc. All a school has to do is write a check and say they are providing “educational support”. Kavanaugh’s supplemental opinion all but invited a lawsuit to make that clear. What keeps any school from setting up a “work/study” arrangement with any athlete—big paycheck. token work.
No it didn't. Kavanaugh was the only one saying what he did. Carries no weight. So no they can't write a direct check and call it educational support.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
winwave
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:11 am

Show Me wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:42 am
HoustonWave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:22 am
winwave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:44 am
The universities can't make the payments.
The SCOTUS said otherwise. The NCAA, and presumably any conference, can’t limit “educational support” payments to the traditional tuition, books, fees, room and board,etc. All a school has to do is write a check and say they are providing “educational support”. Kavanaugh’s supplemental opinion all but invited a lawsuit to make that clear. What keeps any school from setting up a “work/study” arrangement with any athlete—big paycheck. token work.
Exactly correct. There is no limit of support otherwise that would be unconstitutional.
There is and ultimately it will be upheld.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:42 am

That’s all good for football but what about the remaining sports like basketball. If the SEC becomes the dominant (even more than now) football power, what happens to national interest in the regular season. Obviously the southeast with follow but what about the remaining geographies? I grew up in the northeast many years ago. I recall penn state, Ohio, and ND regular season games. HS football played on Saturdays. NFL on Sunday’s. Peewee football also on Saturdays. Not sure how it works now. Ice hockey and basketball regularly played Friday nights. For those outside the southeast, what’s the interest for a regular season super sec game? Plus where will the sec find their 3-4 easy (rest up) games if there’s only 40 teams? Not sure the sec other than Kentucky has dominant basketball programs. So not sure how the basket powers react toward basketball scheduling if they are left out of football. ESPN $$ will decide if this moves forward. But shrinking national interest is definitely a consideration for ESPN.
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:52 am

McWave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:42 am
That’s all good for football but what about the remaining sports like basketball. If the SEC becomes the dominant (even more than now) football power, what happens to national interest in the regular season. Obviously the southeast with follow but what about the remaining geographies? I grew up in the northeast many years ago. I recall penn state, Ohio, and ND regular season games. HS football played on Saturdays. NFL on Sunday’s. Peewee football also on Saturdays. Not sure how it works now. Ice hockey and basketball regularly played Friday nights. For those outside the southeast, what’s the interest for a regular season super sec game? Plus where will the sec find their 3-4 easy (rest up) games if there’s only 40 teams? Not sure the sec other than Kentucky has dominant basketball programs. So not sure how the basket powers react toward basketball scheduling if they are left out of football. ESPN $$ will decide if this moves forward. But shrinking national interest is definitely a consideration for ESPN.
Very valid points. If there is a Top 40, much of the country may tire from seeing the same games. There will actually be just as many fan eyeballs on the Next 100.
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HoustonWave
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:56 am

winwave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:11 am
Show Me wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:42 am
HoustonWave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:22 am


The SCOTUS said otherwise. The NCAA, and presumably any conference, can’t limit “educational support” payments to the traditional tuition, books, fees, room and board,etc. All a school has to do is write a check and say they are providing “educational support”. Kavanaugh’s supplemental opinion all but invited a lawsuit to make that clear. What keeps any school from setting up a “work/study” arrangement with any athlete—big paycheck. token work.
Exactly correct. There is no limit of support otherwise that would be unconstitutional.
There is and ultimately it will be upheld.
By whom? Right now, any university can provide any support to a undergrad or grad student--there is no limitation. Some grad students get huge fellowships (direct payments, offices, secretarial support, computers, supplies, etc.) Only the NCAA was serving up the limits, and that has been gutted. If anyone, other than a school using its own limitations, tries to restrict the amount of direct aid, we'll get the lawsuit that Kavanaugh laid the ground work for. I'm betting any such lawsuit will make it clear that only the school itself can impose restrictions on itself.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
winwave
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:41 pm

That's not true. They cannot make direct payments. They can give up to the stipend limits currently in place. The ruling did not make the players employees and say they had to pay them. Remember that would mean every member, including walk-ons, on every team of the school would have to get paid. The schools aren't going there. Yes there will be a suit seeking that and you'll most likely see the court come up with a way around ordering that.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
HoustonWave
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:10 pm

winwave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:41 pm
That's not true. They cannot make direct payments. They can give up to the stipend limits currently in place. The ruling did not make the players employees and say they had to pay them. Remember that would mean every member, including walk-ons, on every team of the school would have to get paid. The schools aren't going there. Yes there will be a suit seeking that and you'll most likely see the court come up with a way around ordering that.
Universities make direct payments to students all the time--scholarships, fellowships, and work/study arrangements. There are no limitations on any of it, other than any limitation that the university may want to apply. And from a tax perspective, some of these payments are no different than any other earned income. It's only the NCAA that has prevented more of this for athletes.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
winwave
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:00 pm

HoustonWave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:10 pm
winwave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:41 pm
That's not true. They cannot make direct payments. They can give up to the stipend limits currently in place. The ruling did not make the players employees and say they had to pay them. Remember that would mean every member, including walk-ons, on every team of the school would have to get paid. The schools aren't going there. Yes there will be a suit seeking that and you'll most likely see the court come up with a way around ordering that.
Universities make direct payments to students all the time--scholarships, fellowships, and work/study arrangements. There are no limitations on any of it, other than any limitation that the university may want to apply. And from a tax perspective, some of these payments are no different than any other earned income. It's only the NCAA that has prevented more of this for athletes.
The NCAA still exist and student athletes can't get the direct cash payments you talk of.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
HoustonWave
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:08 pm

winwave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:00 pm
HoustonWave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:10 pm
winwave wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 1:41 pm
That's not true. They cannot make direct payments. They can give up to the stipend limits currently in place. The ruling did not make the players employees and say they had to pay them. Remember that would mean every member, including walk-ons, on every team of the school would have to get paid. The schools aren't going there. Yes there will be a suit seeking that and you'll most likely see the court come up with a way around ordering that.
Universities make direct payments to students all the time--scholarships, fellowships, and work/study arrangements. There are no limitations on any of it, other than any limitation that the university may want to apply. And from a tax perspective, some of these payments are no different than any other earned income. It's only the NCAA that has prevented more of this for athletes.
The NCAA still exist and student athletes can't get the direct cash payments you talk of.
The SCOTUS ruled otherwise. Specifically ruling that the NCAA has zero authority to limit anything. The NCAA exists in name only at this point—it will hang around as long as possible so Emertt can keep pulling down his $2.9 MM salary as long as possible. But it won’t be long before all of the NCAA bureaucrats are kicked to the curb.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
winwave
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Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:44 pm

That's not what they ruled. The schools can't pay them.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
HoustonWave
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Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:36 pm

You can be sure that many P5 schools will start paying players, and characterizing the payments as "educational related". Teaching an athlete better technique, fitness, training, will all be considered educational. Who is going to stop any school from paying stipends to any athlete? Just like they pay stipends to other students. And who is going to stop a university from giving an athlete a work/study job, paying the athlete whatever the school thinks they are worth? Previously, only NCAA restrictions kept these scenarios from happening, those restrictions are now gone. A school can impose their own restriction, and a conference can impose it's own restrictions (good luck with that), but even the conferences can't act in coordination on any such restrictions. Trust me, schools will be making direct "educational payments" to athletes very soon.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
winwave
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Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:43 pm

No they won’t . These aren’t NFL franchises with Billionaire owner.s.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
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