SEC vs NCAA

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tpstulane
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:29 am

Excellent read here. Goes into multiple areas ripe for change, including splitting off the P5, adding additional scholarships (baseball) and potential changes other areas. Basically the SEC and others feel the NCAA is holding them back.
https://www.si.com/college/2021/07/19/n ... ark-emmert


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winwave
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:54 am

The raising of scholarship limits in football will be really bad for us and others like us. No matter how much sense some think the argument that a player should choose to come here rather than be third string at an SEC school makes he players will still choose the SEC offer.
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golfnut69
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:09 am

winwave wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:54 am
The raising of scholarship limits in football will be really bad for us and others like us. No matter how much sense some think the argument that a player should choose to come here rather than be third string at an SEC school makes he players will still choose the SEC offer.
ya mean we will not be able to give out 100 schollies a year like we did back in the Pittman - Ellender days.......
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tpstulane
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:40 am

winwave wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:54 am
The raising of scholarship limits in football will be really bad for us and others like us. No matter how much sense some think the argument that a player should choose to come here rather than be third string at an SEC school makes he players will still choose the SEC offer.
They mention that with the new transfer rule they may need to. But now kids sitting that want to play will be able to transfer without penalty.


I’m more excited about this:
In the SEC, many administrators believe the conference can afford and should provide every athlete with a full scholarship, eliminating the partial scholarships that exist in many Olympic sports.

NCAA rules prohibit such a move. For many sports, the NCAA designates scholarships to each team to parcel over a certain amount of roster sports. While football gets 85 full scholarships, a sport like baseball gets 11.7 to spread across a roster size of 27. In men’s tennis the number is 4.5 scholarships over a roster size of about 10. Roughly half of the roster is paying tuition. In swimming, men’s teams get 9.9 scholarships over an average roster size of 30—a 3-to-1 tuition-to-scholarship ratio. Men’s soccer and wrestling have 3-to-1 ratios, and women’s soccer is 2-to-1.

The league will have plenty of cash coming its away—both from the new television deal and the revenue from an expanded playoff. Instead of spending excess revenue on coaching salaries, gaudy facilities and administrative bonuses, the league could funnel the money to athletes for educational expenses.

“The thing that amazes me is why we did not give every athlete in this day and time a full scholarship,” says Larry Templeton, a longtime SEC athletic director now in a consultant role with the league. “We missed the boat. We got equivalency sports busting at the seams. College baseball and softball, look at the viewership and excitement, and we’re treating them like second-class citizens.”
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winwave
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:09 am

tpstulane wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:40 am
winwave wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:54 am
The raising of scholarship limits in football will be really bad for us and others like us. No matter how much sense some think the argument that a player should choose to come here rather than be third string at an SEC school makes he players will still choose the SEC offer.
They mention that with the new transfer rule they may need to. But now kids sitting that want to play will be able to transfer without penalty.


I’m more excited about this:
In the SEC, many administrators believe the conference can afford and should provide every athlete with a full scholarship, eliminating the partial scholarships that exist in many Olympic sports.

NCAA rules prohibit such a move. For many sports, the NCAA designates scholarships to each team to parcel over a certain amount of roster sports. While football gets 85 full scholarships, a sport like baseball gets 11.7 to spread across a roster size of 27. In men’s tennis the number is 4.5 scholarships over a roster size of about 10. Roughly half of the roster is paying tuition. In swimming, men’s teams get 9.9 scholarships over an average roster size of 30—a 3-to-1 tuition-to-scholarship ratio. Men’s soccer and wrestling have 3-to-1 ratios, and women’s soccer is 2-to-1.

The league will have plenty of cash coming its away—both from the new television deal and the revenue from an expanded playoff. Instead of spending excess revenue on coaching salaries, gaudy facilities and administrative bonuses, the league could funnel the money to athletes for educational expenses.

“The thing that amazes me is why we did not give every athlete in this day and time a full scholarship,” says Larry Templeton, a longtime SEC athletic director now in a consultant role with the league. “We missed the boat. We got equivalency sports busting at the seams. College baseball and softball, look at the viewership and excitement, and we’re treating them like second-class citizens.”
They talk about the signing limit being at 25 needing to be raised. So the lesser players that can't make it there will transfer down but the players at schools like ours that outperform their initial rating will transfer up.

As to the other sports remenber they are talking about making those rules for themselves not everybody. Once Tulane isn't D-1 or whatever designation the top football division will be called it's over with for athletics at Tulane. Football drives the bus. I know there are several baseball centric posters on our sites but the vast majority of those buying tickets and donating are going to disappear once we are no longer ia member of the top division in football.

Like Bowlsby says be careful what you wish for , you might get it.

“We could all solve our gender equity issues, the A5, by adding four women’s basketball scholarships and six more volleyball and five more softball,” he says. “All we would do is take players off other peoples’ fields and put them on our bench. It’s a great way to do it for us, but a terrible way to do it for others.”
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winwave
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:13 am

golfnut69 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:09 am
winwave wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 8:54 am
The raising of scholarship limits in football will be really bad for us and others like us. No matter how much sense some think the argument that a player should choose to come here rather than be third string at an SEC school makes he players will still choose the SEC offer.
ya mean we will not be able to give out 100 schollies a year like we did back in the Pittman - Ellender days.......
They are talking about raising it for them- the A5,Autonomous 5, Sure we could give more. We'd just be adding that many more lower level players. Oh the joy.
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tpstulane
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:42 am

The arms race will continue with or without us. The only thing holding it together now is the NCAA basketball tournament. I can see those changes happening at some point. If NIL is the new norm then I can see those scholarships changing. The G5’s that want to play with the big boys have to step up or go down. No in between.
If Tulane decides to drop down I’m officially out.
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winwave
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:58 pm

No doubt it will continue with or without us. What their intent is is to break off and formally create that new division. We won't be included. Then it's over. We have to hope there are more influential people like Bowlsby that see the big picture and how taking those actions will hurt college athletics.
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tpstulane
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:00 pm

winwave wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:58 pm
No doubt it will continue with or without us. What their intent is is to break off and formally create that new division. We won't be included. Then it's over. We have to hope there are more influential people like Bowlsby that see the big picture and how taking those actions will hurt college athletics.
Yep. NCAA MBB tournament last thing keeping it together but nothing else.
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Bicoastalwave
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:43 pm

Yeah we need the opposite to happen . . . fewer football scholarships
winwave
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:26 pm

Bicoastalwave wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:43 pm
Yeah we need the opposite to happen . . . fewer football scholarships
Yep. That’s what I’ve been advocating for years. That’s the best way to get parity. Lessen the football scholarships and give those to the other sports like baseball.
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golfnut69
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:58 pm

winwave wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:26 pm
Bicoastalwave wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:43 pm
Yeah we need the opposite to happen . . . fewer football scholarships
Yep. That’s what I’ve been advocating for years. That’s the best way to get parity. Lessen the football scholarships and give those to the other sports like baseball.
when the last "schollie limits" were voted on, and passed, it was suppose to bring parity
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winwave
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:23 pm

That's why we now have 130 teams. :mrgreen:
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:18 pm

tpstulane wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:42 am
The arms race will continue with or without us. The only thing holding it together now is the NCAA basketball tournament. I can see those changes happening at some point. If NIL is the new norm then I can see those scholarships changing. The G5’s that want to play with the big boys have to step up or go down. No in between.
If Tulane decides to drop down I’m officially out.
Exactly. The G5 schools will have to make the hard decision—in or out. And as far as the NCAA it really is a paper tiger. The P5 conferences could meet and make the NCAA extinct in about a day—and the NCAA basketball tournament won’t save the NCAA. The basketball tournament can be easily replaced. And yes, if Tulane decides to cower down to a lower level, I’m done with Tulane.
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winwave
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Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:14 pm

The point here isn't whether Tulane will choose to stay at the top level. The intent here is for the A5 to break off and create their own division with their own rules. That's where Bowlsby and others have to step in and prevent that. We'll see.
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:26 am

Neither Bowlsby nor Emmert will be able to stop anything. The NCAA has been a joke for years, and Bowlsby has written the book on how not to lead a P5 conference. The A5 will continue to pull away, led by the SEC and Big 10. The Tulane’s of the world will have to decide whether to keep up or not. For that matter, some of the PAC 12 and ACC schools will have to make a decision. The NCAA may try to round up those that opt out, and lead the smaller parade to more of an Ivy League athletic existence of irrelevance.
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winwave
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:35 am

The PAC 12 and ACC schools won't have any decision to make with all the money they get from their TV contracts that will only continue to grow. As to Tulane and the rest they have to decide if they'll go forward as a lesser Division program or go D-III.
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:08 am

winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:35 am
The PAC 12 and ACC schools won't have any decision to make with all the money they get from their TV contracts that will only continue to grow. As to Tulane and the rest they have to decide if they'll go forward as a lesser Division program or go D-III.
But the big boys in each of the P5 conferences are going to need even a bigger slice of the revenue pie, as they try to keep up with the NIL and "educational support" payments that the Football Factories will be serving up (see Alabama's $1MM QB). That will reduce the money machine for the P5 bottom dwellers--which will become a downward spiral for some. The G5's and P5 bottom dwellers will eventually need institutional commitment and support if they want to keep up--the G5's will just get to that point sooner than any of the P5 bottom dwellers.
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winwave
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:41 pm

HoustonWave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:08 am
winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:35 am
The PAC 12 and ACC schools won't have any decision to make with all the money they get from their TV contracts that will only continue to grow. As to Tulane and the rest they have to decide if they'll go forward as a lesser Division program or go D-III.
But the big boys in each of the P5 conferences are going to need even a bigger slice of the revenue pie, as they try to keep up with the NIL and "educational support" payments that the Football Factories will be serving up (see Alabama's $1MM QB). That will reduce the money machine for the P5 bottom dwellers--which will become a downward spiral for some. The G5's and P5 bottom dwellers will eventually need institutional commitment and support if they want to keep up--the G5's will just get to that point sooner than any of the P5 bottom dwellers.
The schools aren't put anything up for the NIL money. As to other educational support that TV money will help them keep up.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:25 pm

winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:41 pm
HoustonWave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:08 am
winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:35 am
The PAC 12 and ACC schools won't have any decision to make with all the money they get from their TV contracts that will only continue to grow. As to Tulane and the rest they have to decide if they'll go forward as a lesser Division program or go D-III.
But the big boys in each of the P5 conferences are going to need even a bigger slice of the revenue pie, as they try to keep up with the NIL and "educational support" payments that the Football Factories will be serving up (see Alabama's $1MM QB). That will reduce the money machine for the P5 bottom dwellers--which will become a downward spiral for some. The G5's and P5 bottom dwellers will eventually need institutional commitment and support if they want to keep up--the G5's will just get to that point sooner than any of the P5 bottom dwellers.
The schools aren't put anything up for the NIL money. As to other educational support that TV money will help them keep up.
But most schools will proactively coordinate their alum NIL strategy and support. Whether an alum donates a check to his alma mater, or directly hires their targeted recruits for charade commercials or autograph signings, it all adds up to financial firepower for the university. Even the Factories will have no limit to what they would like to spend. That's why its such a shame that Tulane has pissed away alumni support, failed to read the collegiate athletic tea leaves years ago, and now struggles to grow its endowment with a decade long fundraiser, that know one will ever know succeeded or not. As usual, Tulane is a day late, a dollar short, and left wondering what next?
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winwave
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:49 pm

Again not every single recruit is going to be getting deals much less large deals. I think you are overstating how many will get meaningful money out of this.
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:56 pm

It's going to be super interesting and very telling to see how all of this plays out with Tulane....

For us to find any sort of competitiveness and establish ourselves as any type of contender going forward, Tulane will literally have to do a complete 180 on the mindset and actions that have haunted us for 50+ years.

I'd be SHOCKED if Tulane ultimately reversed course on anything. Student athletes for life. Div 3 all the way.
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:19 pm

winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:49 pm
Again not every single recruit is going to be getting deals much less large deals. I think you are overstating how many will get meaningful money out of this.
Go check the ESPN NIL list--many athletes, including G5's are signing contracts and endorsements. Most don't quote a dollar amount yet, but there is a lot of action going on--even non-revenue sports.
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:22 pm

Our only chance is if we get a last chance with a restructured Big 12, or some other cobbled together survival conference. The Tulane 2021 football season just got a lot more important.
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winwave
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Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:30 pm

HoustonWave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:19 pm
winwave wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:49 pm
Again not every single recruit is going to be getting deals much less large deals. I think you are overstating how many will get meaningful money out of this.
Go check the ESPN NIL list--many athletes, including G5's are signing contracts and endorsements. Most don't quote a dollar amount yet, but there is a lot of action going on--even non-revenue sports.

They are signing contracts but that doesn't mean they are getting money. Pratt has signed with one.
Small time facilities for small time programs.
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