Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion

[gbgreenie]

At the end of the the day, unvaccinated folks have a much much higher chance of death. Not just hospitalization or complications but straight up dead, regardless of history.
This is ignoring other talking points that are agreed upon by the vast majority of medical pros.
Dead as in no longer breathing. Good luck with that risk assessment.
If I had covid, I would be even more pumped for the vaccine. Now I am doubly protected for myself and my people.

Again, that's the unvaccinated UNINFECTED people. Those of us that are Covid recoverers are a completely different category. THATS what's being ignored.

What is being ignored my granddaughter is 3 time covid infected, son in law twice now they want vaccination because they are tired of catching covid and losing work time. No natural immunity as the virus changes no different than the flu that requires different vaccinations each year based on mutations.

[tpstulane]

RobertM here’s your man! Well said.

[RWR]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcev ... cd607a18bb

"Evidence Piles Up That Covid Immunity Among Previously Infected People May Be Long-Lasting"

From that article:

Meanwhile, a study published last month in the Lancet medical journal underscored the importance of vaccines as it found past coronavirus infections don’t confer strong enough immunity to fully protect against reinfection, posing a high risk for unvaccinated older people.

Everything you post also says people with prior infections need to get vaccinated.

[RobertM320]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcev ... cd607a18bb

"Evidence Piles Up That Covid Immunity Among Previously Infected People May Be Long-Lasting"

Only for those WHO LIVE through their covid .

The vaccine reduces the likely hood OF GETTING covid and REDUCES THE SEVERITY of the consequent contraction .

The point is to vaccinate to not be a spreader or a victim or a death .

Duh ....

And 99.95% of people under the age of 64 LIVE through their Covid. You STILL refuse to get the point. I"VE already HAD Covid. So have 45 MILLION others, at a MINIMUM. WE are not the same as the UNINFECTED UNVAXXED. That's like saying the person who completed law school but didn't take the bar, is the same as the one who only two one law school class, because neither are a lawyer. I still think I'd have more faith in what I was told from the one who completed school.

You, like so many others here, just keep ignoring the discussion and regurgitate talking points. YES, if you're uninfected, you SHOULD consider getting vaxxed. If you're COVID RECOVERED, that's a different issue altogether.

"The point is to vaccinate to not be a spreader or a victim or a death ." This is a pretty dumb comment, since its KNOWN that vaxxers still spread the virus and still get the virus.

Maybe all you vaxxers need to write this down and put it on your bathroom mirror to remind you every day:

UNVACCINATED =/= INFECTED

[RobertM320]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcev ... cd607a18bb

"Evidence Piles Up That Covid Immunity Among Previously Infected People May Be Long-Lasting"

From that article:

Meanwhile, a study published last month in the Lancet medical journal underscored the importance of vaccines as it found past coronavirus infections don’t confer strong enough immunity to fully protect against reinfection, posing a high risk for unvaccinated older people.

Everything you post also says people with prior infections need to get vaccinated.

No, it says they SHOULD, not they NEED. Big difference. And that Lancet article was published in May. Since then, more and more studies are showing that previous infection is stronger than the vax, including the Emory study which I also posted. Heck, even the vax doesn't fully protect against reinfection. If it did, no one would worry about who's vaxxed and who isn't.

[RobertM320]

At the end of the the day, unvaccinated folks have a much much higher chance of death. Not just hospitalization or complications but straight up dead, regardless of history.
This is ignoring other talking points that are agreed upon by the vast majority of medical pros.
Dead as in no longer breathing. Good luck with that risk assessment.
If I had covid, I would be even more pumped for the vaccine. Now I am doubly protected for myself and my people.

Again, that's the unvaccinated UNINFECTED people. Those of us that are Covid recoverers are a completely different category. THATS what's being ignored.

What is being ignored my granddaughter is 3 time covid infected, son in law twice now they want vaccination because they are tired of catching covid and losing work time. No natural immunity as the virus changes no different than the flu that requires different vaccinations each year based on mutations.

No one's ignoring it gbg. Good for you, your granddaughter is one of the rare .0000001% of people that have gotten Covid more than once. I'd lean more toward a bad diagnosis than confirmed Covid three times. So let's lock down and destroy businesses and keep people from living their life because a handful of people worldwide can get it more than once.

[RobertM320]

RobertM here’s your man! Well said.

I saw this yesterday as well. But his reasoning means nothing to gbg and the others here, because

1. He's not a doctor, just a dumb basketball player
2. gbgs granddaughter has had Covid three times.

In their mind, those two facts override all the science about natural immunity.

[tpstulane]

RobertM here’s your man! Well said.

I saw this yesterday as well. But his reasoning means nothing to gbg and the others here, because

1. He's not a doctor, just a dumb basketball player
2. gbgs granddaughter has had Covid three times.

In their mind, those two facts override all the science about natural immunity.

Interesting reply to that tweet by JP Coroner Dr Gerry C. He agrees with the player.

[RWR]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcev ... cd607a18bb

"Evidence Piles Up That Covid Immunity Among Previously Infected People May Be Long-Lasting"

From that article:

Meanwhile, a study published last month in the Lancet medical journal underscored the importance of vaccines as it found past coronavirus infections don’t confer strong enough immunity to fully protect against reinfection, posing a high risk for unvaccinated older people.

Everything you post also says people with prior infections need to get vaccinated.

No, it says they SHOULD, not they NEED. Big difference. And that Lancet article was published in May. Since then, more and more studies are showing that previous infection is stronger than the vax, including the Emory study which I also posted. Heck, even the vax doesn't fully protect against reinfection. If it did, no one would worry about who's vaxxed and who isn't.

The important word there is MAY have long lasting protection. That may is why they tell you SHOULD GET IT.

Everybody here gets that a person who has had Covid and is unvaccinated is diFferent from one that hasn't had Covid and is unvaccinated. What you don't get is that every article you post says you should still get vaccinated. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

[GreenLantern]

Dear RobertM320 (and any other anti-vaxxer),

I'm sure you're a nice man. You (probably) pay your taxes, worry about providing for your employees, and generally are a good American. If we met in a bar during a Tulane game, I would gladly buy you a beer. What I don't get is your continued campaign against prevailing science and the vaccination effort.

You seem angry at those who disagree with you. Well, guess what. You're not the only one. We're a little pissed, too. You see, your anger is dumb, and ours is not. Yours is about being pressured to do something you don't want to do (get vaccinated). You never posted about being required to get vaccinated to start school or to travel to other countries. You don't complain that you have to mow your lawn or wear clothing that conceals your private parts when you're in public.

I thought you were just an eccentric until you suggested ivermectin as a COVID treatment. That put you into the wacko, vaccine-makes-you-infertile-and-magnetic-and-tracks-your-movements group.

You see, your stubbornness jeopardizes the health care system and our personal lives. This could all have been over. The rest of us...we're mad as hell at those like you because it isn't. Look at it like this: If you're right and I'm wrong, the only arguable plus is that people are spared the inconvenience of an inoculation. If I'm right and you're wrong, thousands of lives will be saved by taking the shot..

I remember George Sweeney (newspaper columnist and sportswriter for the Times Pic...also the father of tpsTulane) was once the verbal target of a reader who disagreed with his analysis of a boxing event. George wrote to the argumentative fan: "never get into an argument with someone who buys ink by the barrel." I feel the same way about this. Anything you write that discourages vaccination puts lives at risk. I will outlast you and refute you with science.

P.S. My granddaughter is in her early twenties. Several months ago, she was diagnosed with COVID, later tested negative, and months later was infected a second time. Your nonsense that once-infected-forever-cured is just that, nonsense.

[tpstulane]

I remember George Sweeney (newspaper columnist and sportswriter for the Times Pic...also the father of tpsTulane) was once the verbal target of a reader who disagreed with his analysis of a boxing event. George wrote to the argumentative fan: "never get into an argument with someone who buys ink by the barrel."

This is great GL!
First time I heard that line!
Thx!

[DfromCT]

Dear RobertM320 (and any other anti-vaxxer),

P.S. My granddaughter is in her early twenties. Several months ago, she was diagnosed with COVID, later tested negative, and months later was infected a second time. Your nonsense that once-infected-forever-cured is just that, nonsense.

The statistic RobertM320 uses about .00000001% of those previously infected get re-infected would cause him to get his lights punched out by most ER nurses and doctors. Every hospital in the country has MANY that have been infected and reinfected. Yes, there is some immunity for an unknown period of time, nobody refutes that. But the strength of the immunity and it's duration are questionable, not determined and certainly not all-encompassing. These anti-vaxxers are, in fact, contributing in a very significant way to the PANDEMIC OF THE UNVACCINATED. It has that name for a reason. Take off the tin foil hat, or simply stfu.

[GreenLantern]

YouTube is now blocking all anti-vaccination content. Why would they do such a thing?

(Hint: because it prevents the spread of bullshit and ultimately saves lives.)

[RobertM320]

P.S. My granddaughter is in her early twenties. Several months ago, she was diagnosed with COVID, later tested negative, and months later was infected a second time. Your nonsense that once-infected-forever-cured is just that, nonsense.

I've never said forever cured. No one knows. But what we DO know is that a previously infected person is as protected as a vaxxed person, and has some period of immunity. We don't know if its a year, or if its forever. But we also DO KNOW that the period of immunity for a vaxxed person is LESS THAN that of an infected person. Everyone says, follow the science, but then they want to get out AHEAD of the science. There is NO SCIENCE that says people who have natural immunity from Covid DONT have long term immunity either. There's some research that says people who carried the SARS-1 antibodies are showing immunity to Covid-19 as well.

I'm all for someone who hasn't been infected getting the vax. I have a problem when the science has no proof that my natural immunity isn't as good or better than your vax, and yet they demand I get vaxxed. When SCIENCE comes up with definitive evidence that recovered Covid sufferers have much less immunity, then we can talk. But we don't have that.

What gbg has regarding his granddaughter is called an anecdote. Its not proof. Its an anecdote. Don't forget, that's the SAME THING all of you say about the doctors who have successfully treated Covid with Ivermectin. "Its just anecdotal, its not science". Well, you can't have it both ways, either anecdotes mean something, or they dont.

As for the Ivermectin, which some of you are so quick to dismiss, Japan is getting ready to remove their Covid restrictions. Their plan going forward is for early therapeutic treatment of cases with, you guessed it, IVERMECTIN. So I guess all Japanese doctors and scientists are tin foil hat wearers now too?

And by the way, before you go running for all the fact checks trying to say this is false, I'll save you the time.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... 9-treatme/


"While the chairman of the Tokyo Medical Association, Haruo Ozaki, has recommended the use of ivermectin on COVID-19 patients, neither he nor the organization is associated with the Japanese government."

The TMA is the equivalent of the AMA in the US. If I remember correctly, someone recently posted that a survey done by the AMA said 96% of doctors were vaccinated. So, must a be a pretty reliable organization, correct? And they're recommending the use of Ivermectin. If the AMA did the same, would you call the AMA a bunch of right wing wackos too?

[RobertM320]

Dear RobertM320 (and any other anti-vaxxer),

P.S. My granddaughter is in her early twenties. Several months ago, she was diagnosed with COVID, later tested negative, and months later was infected a second time. Your nonsense that once-infected-forever-cured is just that, nonsense.

The statistic RobertM320 uses about .00000001% of those previously infected get re-infected would cause him to get his lights punched out by most ER nurses and doctors. Every hospital in the country has MANY that have been infected and reinfected. Yes, there is some immunity for an unknown period of time, nobody refutes that. But the strength of the immunity and it's duration are questionable, not determined and certainly not all-encompassing. These anti-vaxxers are, in fact, contributing in a very significant way to the PANDEMIC OF THE UNVACCINATED. It has that name for a reason. Take off the tin foil hat, or simply stfu.

No they dont, D. There you go with the hyperbole again. "EVERY HOSPITAL". Its NOT every hospital. Its not even most hospitals. There are some cases, yes. But there's also 43 MILLION confirmed recovered cases, and they estimate as many as DOUBLE that unconfirmed. That's 120M people that have had or probably had Covid in the US. I can assure you there havent been 120,000 reinfections, which would be 0.1%. ITs far less than that.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/04/07/cov ... seem-rare/
Here's an article from April

https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/08/c ... n-tracker/

Here's a site that keeps track of reinfections. CONFIRMED CASES WORLDWIDE, as of two weeks ago: 362 Yes, only 362. Even if you accept the suspected cases as all being confirmed, its 107K. WORLDWIDE. Not in the US, WORLDWIDE.

Congrats, gbg, your granddaughter should be studied because she's pretty unique to have had it THREE times.

Everyone needs to get over this fearporn BS that there's thousands and thousands of people getting Covid over and over. Its JUST NOT HAPPENING.

[RobertM320]

Two weeks ago:

https://www.cnet.com/health/covid-19-re ... ow-so-far/

"Though documented cases of reinfection with COVID-19 remain rare at this point in the pandemic..., "

Make a note of the specific phrase "REMAIN RARE".


And these are the two reasons they give for a recovered person getting the shot. Nowhere do they say I'm not already protected, They can't, because it would be a lie.

1) that it provides a BOOST to immunity, which has never been debated. I agree that it does.
2) vaccination is safer than getting infected, which is MEANINGLESS if you've ALREADY BEEN INFECTED.

"This is because studies have shown that vaccination provides a strong boost in immunity to those who've recovered from COVID-19, and vaccination is a much safer way to get immunity from the coronavirus than getting infected with COVID-19, according to the CDC."

As time goes on, the only evidence that keeps coming up more and more is that Covid recoverers are AT least as well protected as vaxxed people, and that reinfection remains rare. And yet all I hear from the vaxxer crowd on this site is "Billions are getting reinfected dozens of times!" "If you're not vaxxed you're a superspreader!" "Hospitals overflowing with unvaxed reinfected people!" And none of those are true.

[GreenLantern]

Dr. Momus Alexander Morgus has done extensive research with COVID and Ivermectin. In addition to finding that it offers a near immediate cure for COVID, he also found that it increases penis length and greatly enhances sexual drive in men over 60. (New Orleans natives may know Dr. Morgus as Morgus the Magnificent.)

While RobertM320 is looking on Facebook and searching Fox News archives for information to confirm the previous statement, I'll present real facts for the rest of you to review:

There are a number of reliable scientific sources that have researched and found that against some of the most concerning variants, literally 100 times better levels of antibodies are achieved after vaccination compared to the natural immunity for someone who has been previously infected. Antibody levels are variable after recovering from infection and those at the lower end of the spectrum are more susceptible to reinfections. But after a single vaccine in people who have recovered from Covid-19, antibodies skyrocket up, including those that neutralize variants.

Want to do your own research? Here's a couple of resources:

• Dr. Shane Crotty - La Jolla Institute for Immunology
• Dr. Fikadu Tafese - Oregon Health and Science
• Centers of Disease Control
• Dr. Deepta Bhattacharya - University of Arizona

[RobertM320]

Dr. Momus Alexander Morgus has done extensive research with COVID and Ivermectin. In addition to finding that it offers a near immediate cure for COVID, he also found that it increases penis length and greatly enhances sexual drive in men over 60. (New Orleans natives may know Dr. Morgus as Morgus the Magnificent.)

While RobertM320 is looking on Facebook and searching Fox News archives for information to confirm the previous statement, I'll present real facts for the rest of you to review:

There are a number of reliable scientific sources that have researched and found that against some of the most concerning variants, literally 100 times better levels of antibodies are achieved after vaccination compared to the natural immunity for someone who has been previously infected. Antibody levels are variable after recovering from infection and those at the lower end of the spectrum are more susceptible to reinfections. But after a single vaccine in people who have recovered from Covid-19, antibodies skyrocket up, including those that neutralize variants.

Want to do your own research? Here's a couple of resources:

• Dr. Shane Crotty - La Jolla Institute for Immunology
• Dr. Fikadu Tafese - Oregon Health and Science
• Centers of Disease Control
• Dr. Deepta Bhattacharya - University of Arizona

Again, I have NEVER denied that a vaccine IN ADDITION to previous infection gives super high protection. You STILL ignore the fact that I've ALREADY got the same levels of antibodies and T-cell development as someone who's ONLY vaccinated.

Again, my point is, if your immunity level is a 6 after a vaccine, and mine is at 7 after having Covid, WHY are you demanding I get a shot to move my level to 8? I'm ALREADY above your level. When they improve the vaccine to where its NOTABLY better than actual infection, get back to me. They haven't done that.

[GreenLantern]

Again, I have NEVER denied that a vaccine IN ADDITION to previous infection gives super high protection. You STILL ignore the fact that I've ALREADY got the same levels of antibodies and T-cell development as someone who's ONLY vaccinated.

Again, my point is, if your immunity level is a 6 after a vaccine, and mine is at 7 after having Covid, WHY are you demanding I get a shot to move my level to 8? I'm ALREADY above your level. When they improve the vaccine to where its NOTABLY better than actual infection, get back to me. They haven't done that.

Robert, Robert, Robert....

If you had only read my post, perhaps you would have picked up on the fact that there are varying levels of antibodies present in those who have recovered from COVID. Those on the low end of the spectrum, are very susceptible to contracting the disease and infecting others (like children and immuno-compromised who cannot get vaccinated). This could be the case with you...your antibody count may have waned . A wealth of research has shown that recovered patients can get an immunity boost of 100 times or more by getting vaccinated...not the curious 7 to 8 that you mention.

BTW, I'm not trying to change your mind, although I wish I could. I'm trying to prevent you from influencing others who are not decided and might believe your pseudo-science.

[mbawavefan12]

Simple question, from a game theory POV, is the vaccine unsafe? This is the fundamental question. If safe, no reason to avoid, if unsafe, avoid. Pretty simple regardless of antibodies or age.

Here is a starting
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/ ... ccine-safe

https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item/12 ... d-vaccines

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... cines.html


https://hms.harvard.edu/news/covid-19-vaccine-safety

https://www.nm.org/healthbeat/covid-19/ ... he-vaccine

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/ ... id-19.html

Please post respectable studies from confirmed medical sources. As I have with John’s Hopkins, UAB medical, CDC, Northwestern Medical, Harvard Medical and Stanford Medical. There are many more, perhaps I am missing something?

Added:
Duke Medical

https://www.dukehealth.org/covid-19-upd ... e-FAQ#safe

Mayo clinic

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus- ... -had-covid

[RobertM320]

Simple question, from a game theory POV, is the vaccine unsafe? This is the fundamental question. If safe, no reason to avoid, if unsafe, avoid. Pretty simple regardless of antibodies or age.

Here is a starting
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/ ... ccine-safe

https://www.uab.edu/news/health/item/12 ... d-vaccines

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... cines.html


https://hms.harvard.edu/news/covid-19-vaccine-safety

https://www.nm.org/healthbeat/covid-19/ ... he-vaccine

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/ ... id-19.html

Please post respectable studies from confirmed medical sources. As I have with John’s Hopkins, UAB medical, CDC, Northwestern Medical, Harvard Medical and Stanford Medical. There are many more, perhaps I am missing something?

Added:
Duke Medical

https://www.dukehealth.org/covid-19-upd ... e-FAQ#safe

Mayo clinic

https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus- ... -had-covid

There's a real simple answer to this. Since NONE of the vaccines have completed all their clinical trials, and have only been in existence less than a year, WE REALLY DONT KNOW the full effects. Until all the trials are done and its PROVEN to be safe, I don't see why I should be forced to take it. Remember, you can always get the vax later. But you CANT decide to UNDO the vax once you've had it.

Also, is it 100% safe? No its not, and that's already been proven. I do happen to have very high levels of AB and T-cells 14 months after I had it. So my choice is, do I take something that's NOT 100% safe, or do I stay 100% safe of side effects by NOT taking it? I choose not to.

[RobertM320]

Again, I have NEVER denied that a vaccine IN ADDITION to previous infection gives super high protection. You STILL ignore the fact that I've ALREADY got the same levels of antibodies and T-cell development as someone who's ONLY vaccinated.

Again, my point is, if your immunity level is a 6 after a vaccine, and mine is at 7 after having Covid, WHY are you demanding I get a shot to move my level to 8? I'm ALREADY above your level. When they improve the vaccine to where its NOTABLY better than actual infection, get back to me. They haven't done that.

Robert, Robert, Robert....

If you had only read my post, perhaps you would have picked up on the fact that there are varying levels of antibodies present in those who have recovered from COVID. Those on the low end of the spectrum, are very susceptible to contracting the disease and infecting others (like children and immuno-compromised who cannot get vaccinated). This could be the case with you...your antibody count may have waned . A wealth of research has shown that recovered patients can get an immunity boost of 100 times or more by getting vaccinated...not the curious 7 to 8 that you mention.

BTW, I'm not trying to change your mind, although I wish I could. I'm trying to prevent you from influencing others who are not decided and might believe your pseudo-science.

My 7 and 8 was just an example, not actual levels. The point being, I've ALREADY got more immunity than you. And ANY Covid recoverer can be tested and checked out to see just how high the AB and T-cell levels are in their body. If they're low, maybe they should still get the vax. Point being, it should be THEIR CHOICE. And since you, as a vaxxed person, can JUST AS EASILY be spreading Covid as I can, what's being done to protect ME from YOU?

And, your antibody count will ALWAYS wane, that's how it works. The T-cells are what's important. Its easy to check. Much easier than making anyone not vaxxed a pariah and banning them from society.

[GreenLantern]

I've ALREADY got more immunity than you.

You can't possibly know that. Whatever immunity you have would be multiplied if you were vaccinated.

Point being, it should be THEIR CHOICE.

It should be your choice as long as you don't choose to engage in any public activities. For instance: attending school, church, grocery stores, hospitals, Tulane football games, etc. There is, by the way, an ongoing international pandemic and health crisis (if you haven't noticed).

And since you, as a vaxxed person, can JUST AS EASILY be spreading Covid as I can...

This is the point that is the most disturbing. I can only spread COVID if I first contract COVID. Nearly every recognized authority has amassed mountains of history affirming that the vaccinated are much more unlikely to contract the disease than those who choose to remain unvaccinated.

what's being done to protect ME from YOU?

Out of respect for you and your family, I have been vaccinated. I observe social distancing. I wear masks when around groups, not because I think masks are comfortable or because I believe they are adding a significant protection for myself, but to protect others by inhibiting the aspiration of droplets. I stay informed about medical issues. I vote for politicians that are committed to protecting their constituents (and against those who recommend treatment by bleach). On the other hand and judging from your comments, it appears you show little concern for me and my family.

[RobertM320]

This is the point that is the most disturbing. I can only spread COVID if I first contract COVID. Nearly every recognized authority has amassed mountains of history affirming that the vaccinated are much more unlikely to contract the disease than those who choose to remain unvaccinated.

Wouldn't this also apply to me? I can't spread COVID unless I contract it either, but you act as if everyone who's unvaxxed is infected. Did you not read the article I posted? In THEORY, a person who has already had Covid can get it again. In FACT, in REAL DATA, it is STILL EXTREMELY RARE. 362 confirmed cases. Period. Even if you take the suspected totals, its still rare.

When you talk about vaxxed being multiple times more protected then unvaxxed, you're applying a number that DOESNT APPLY TO recovered Covid, only to UNINFECTED unvaxxed. You're much more unlikely to catch it than an uninfected unvaxxed. You're NOT much more unlikely to catch it than a RECOVERED unvaxxed. You STILL REFUSE to make the distinction, and the media and govt PURPOSELY refuse to make that distinction.

[RobertM320]

See here's the thing all of you refuse to acknowledge. I'll give an example. In theory, its POSSIBLE for a quarterback to throw for 1000 yards in a single game. But the REALITY is, even throwing for over 500 yards is extremely rare.

So, yes, its POSSIBLE for someone who's had Covid to get it again. In REALITY, its EXTREMELY rare, regardless of your level of antibodies. All of you keep talking the theory, and ignoring the actual numerical data, which shows there's only 362 CONFIRMED CASES WORLDWIDE. Can't deny the numbers, people.

You need to stop comparing apples to oranges. A vaxxed is so many times less likely to catch Covid than an unvaxxed person is referring to UNINFECTED unvaxxed. That number is very different when comparing vaxxed to recovered unvaxxed. But you keep applying the first number to the second situation.