Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion

[RobertM320]

Out of respect for you and your family, I have been vaccinated. I observe social distancing. I wear masks when around groups, not because I think masks are comfortable or because I believe they are adding a significant protection for myself, but to protect others by inhibiting the aspiration of droplets. I stay informed about medical issues. I vote for politicians that are committed to protecting their constituents (and against those who recommend treatment by bleach). On the other hand and judging from your comments, it appears you show little concern for me and my family.

But you're only aspirating droplets IF YOU'RE INFECTED. Are you infected? If so, stay home. I'm not infected. And don't say you could be asymptomatic, because they've ALSO ADMITTED that asymptomatics DO NOT spread the virus.

[MicMan]

But you're only aspirating droplets IF YOU'RE INFECTED. Are you infected? If so, stay home. I'm not infected. And don't say you could be asymptomatic, because they've ALSO ADMITTED that asymptomatics DO NOT spread the virus.

That so? Could've knocked me over with a respirator.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lane ... 4/fulltext

[tpstulane]

Out of respect for you and your family, I have been vaccinated. I observe social distancing. I wear masks when around groups, not because I think masks are comfortable or because I believe they are adding a significant protection for myself, but to protect others by inhibiting the aspiration of droplets. I stay informed about medical issues. I vote for politicians that are committed to protecting their constituents (and against those who recommend treatment by bleach). On the other hand and judging from your comments, it appears you show little concern for me and my family.

But you're only aspirating droplets IF YOU'RE INFECTED. Are you infected? If so, stay home. I'm not infected. And don't say you could be asymptomatic, because they've ALSO ADMITTED that asymptomatics DO NOT spread the virus.

Might just be the most fascinating point made in this thread.

[GreenLantern]

Out of respect for you and your family, I have been vaccinated. I observe social distancing. I wear masks when around groups, not because I think masks are comfortable or because I believe they are adding a significant protection for myself, but to protect others by inhibiting the aspiration of droplets. I stay informed about medical issues. I vote for politicians that are committed to protecting their constituents (and against those who recommend treatment by bleach). On the other hand and judging from your comments, it appears you show little concern for me and my family.

But you're only aspirating droplets IF YOU'RE INFECTED. Are you infected? If so, stay home. I'm not infected. And don't say you could be asymptomatic, because they've ALSO ADMITTED that asymptomatics DO NOT spread the virus.

Robert, Robert, Robert...

If we're alive, we breathe. Whenever we breathe, we exhale. When we exhale, we breathe small droplets of moisture into the air. The moisture could contain a transmissible amount of virus if I had contracted the virus and was unaware. I hope to continue to breathe and exhale moist air from my lungs for a few more years...at least long enough to see Tulane have a championship season.

As it were, I was tested for COVID yesterday for an unrelated hospital procedure and the results were negative. Nevertheless, I continued to wear a mask today when I shopped at Home Depot. I did so:

• Out of an abundance of caution
• Out of respect for other people
• Out of respect for the business who is attempting to remain open
• In compliance with a state-issued mandate

I believe you own a business. If I entered your business, I would wear a mask. I would do this for your employees, your customers, and your business Robert. The mask probably wouldn't do much for me other than make me uncomfortable and fog my glasses.

I'm sorry I used a big, three-syllable word like aspirate. I'll keep it simpler in the future.

For every one else, don't be like Robert. Get vaccinated.

[RobertM320]

GL, I guess you're also not aware that it takes a certain amount of viral load to actually transmit the disease. Its no wonder you people are so paralyzed with fear. You somehow believe that if there's a single speck of the virus that gets caught up in your exhaled breathing, that its somehow capable of giving Covid to someone else. Let me ease your mind, its NOT.


Also, Rarely transmits from surfaces

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/04/13/c ... -covid-19/

[GreenLantern]

Over 6.27 billion doses of vaccine have been administered worldwide. Over 2.65 billion people on this planet (34.0%) have received their shots and are fully vaccinated. This includes over 185 million people in the United States. The public is growing more confident in the vaccine because of these numbers and the data confirming the shot's safety and effectiveness.

RobertM320 is not included in any of the counts above. Moreover, judging by the number of argumentative posts he authors, he seems to be recruiting folks to be more like him: Unvaccinated. Brave.

I'll never change Robert's mind and I know you are weary of these back and forth posts. Yet I will not allow him to have the last word promoting The Evil Lie that it's okay....safe, even.... to be unvaccinated.

Vaccines only work when people get them. The people that remain unvaccinated comprise the majority of new COVID cases, hospitalizations, and deaths.

In the United States, 97% of all doctors have been vaccinated. Believe them, or believe Robert. Who do you trust?

[RobertM320]

I already debunked the 97% of doctors BS. That was a survey done by the AMA of 301 doctors. 301, of over 250K members, and 1.4 million doctors. Hardly enough to be statistically factual, as anyone who took a statistics class knows.

So answer this:

What is the purpose of a vaccine? A vaccines purpose is to teach the body how to create antibodies to a specific virus or disease, so if you come in contact with that virus later, you're protected. Correct? No bias there, just science. That's what a vaccine does. So, since my body ALREADY knows how to create those antibodies, its hard to justify the need for a vaccine.

So lets go a step further. Your argument is that the vaccine works better and for longer than natural immunity, although science is mixed regarding that. If that's the case, then set a threshold. What is the level of ABs that the vaccine creates that they feel is satisfactory protection? Lets call that number X, whatever it may be. If a person like myself can PROVE that my antibody levels are greater than or equal to X, then there's no justification for the vaccine. So tell me why I'm wrong. Because you said so? Because the govt says so? We're talking facts. If the satisfactory level of protection is X, and I've got X or better, then I don't need the vaccine, period.

Tell me the fallacy in my argument.

[GreenLantern]

Robert, let me ask a question. I hope you will answer honestly.

Are you suggesting that a) no one should be vaccinated or b) that people who have had prior COVID infections shouldn't be vaccinated or c)that you personally should not be vaccinated?

For extra credit I will ask another: Why is it so important for you to conduct a public anti-vaccination campaign? Are you not concerned that you might change a single mind and thus make it more likely for someone to contract the disease?

[NOLABigSteve]

Over 6.27 billion doses of vaccine have been administered worldwide. Over 2.65 billion people on this planet (34.0%) have received their shots and are fully vaccinated. This includes over 185 million people in the United States. The public is growing more confident in the vaccine because of these numbers and the data confirming the shot's safety and effectiveness.

This isn’t entirely true. I got the vaccine because of pressure from my family, and to put them at ease. Not because I wanted to or that I was confident in the vaccine.

Many others are getting the vaccine because of financial incentives and/or the threat of losing their freedoms/jobs/etc. Not because they are confident in the vaccine.

I’m not going to argue back and forth. I’m just saying that the increased number of those vaccinated in the US does not imply increased confidence.

[mbawavefan12]

Over 6.27 billion doses of vaccine have been administered worldwide. Over 2.65 billion people on this planet (34.0%) have received their shots and are fully vaccinated. This includes over 185 million people in the United States. The public is growing more confident in the vaccine because of these numbers and the data confirming the shot's safety and effectiveness.

This isn’t entirely true. I got the vaccine because of pressure from my family, and to put them at ease. Not because I wanted to or that I was confident in the vaccine.

Many others are getting the vaccine because of financial incentives and/or the threat of losing their freedoms/jobs/etc. Not because they are confident in the vaccine.

I’m not going to argue back and forth. I’m just saying that the increased number of those vaccinated in the US does not imply increased confidence.

The greater point is that the vaccine is overwhelmingly safe.

As I previously showed, virtually every medical school and association, whose members take the most respected of oaths, encourage every eligible person (regardless of covid history) to take the vaccine. You don’t want to take it, fine, but it is important to point out how those in the know totally disagree and that there is little to no evidence to support the decision not to take this life saving vaccine. That one’s decision to not take this vaccine, again in the eyes of those who know best, could compromise us all and extend this epidemic. Say nothing of these new delta strain(s).

Those are the points that many here have and will continue to make.

[NOLABigSteve]

Over 6.27 billion doses of vaccine have been administered worldwide. Over 2.65 billion people on this planet (34.0%) have received their shots and are fully vaccinated. This includes over 185 million people in the United States. The public is growing more confident in the vaccine because of these numbers and the data confirming the shot's safety and effectiveness.

This isn’t entirely true. I got the vaccine because of pressure from my family, and to put them at ease. Not because I wanted to or that I was confident in the vaccine.

Many others are getting the vaccine because of financial incentives and/or the threat of losing their freedoms/jobs/etc. Not because they are confident in the vaccine.

I’m not going to argue back and forth. I’m just saying that the increased number of those vaccinated in the US does not imply increased confidence.

The greater point is that the vaccine is overwhelmingly safe.

As I previously showed, virtually every medical school and association, whose members take the most respected of oaths, encourage every eligible person (regardless of covid history) to take the vaccine. You don’t want to take it, fine, but it is important to point out how those in the know totally disagree and that there is little to no evidence to support the decision not to take this life saving vaccine. That one’s decision to not take this vaccine, again in the eyes of those who know best, could compromise us all and extend this epidemic. Say nothing of these new delta strain(s).

Those are the points that many here have and will continue to make.

Great points, but nothing to do with what I said.

[RobertM320]

Robert, let me ask a question. I hope you will answer honestly.

Are you suggesting that a) no one should be vaccinated or b) that people who have had prior COVID infections shouldn't be vaccinated or c)that you personally should not be vaccinated?

For extra credit I will ask another: Why is it so important for you to conduct a public anti-vaccination campaign? Are you not concerned that you might change a single mind and thus make it more likely for someone to contract the disease?

So rather than answering my questions, you'll deflect. I figured you would, because you have no answer to my questions.

I've already answered that, GL. There are definitely people that should be vaccinated. If you're currently unvaxxed and haven't had Covid, especially if you're high-risk, you probably should get it. My issue is the indiscriminate mandating of vaccinations. We have the ability to tell if an individual with prior Covid infection has similar or greater protection than a person who is vaxxed. If they do, then there's ZERO reason to be vaxxed, and lots of reasons not to. As for me in particular, its because I'm one of those individuals with prior Covid infection. I believe its criminal that as an American I should be denied access to places you aren't if I've got the same level of protection you do, just because I didn't get it from a shot.

Your extra credit question shows your leftist mindset. I'm not conducting an anti-vax campaign. I'm focused only on equal treatment. And those of us that have already had Covid in many, if not most, cases have comparable protection to you. Its measurable. So let's measure it. But you'd rather shut people out. Its a different version of the P5/G5 argument, except you're the P5 this time around.
And since my argument is only regarding the RECOVERED unvaxxed like myself, no, I'm not concerned that I may change a single mind, because of the actual unlikelihood of a recovered Covid sufferer catching Covid again. "Gbg's grandaughter" notwithstanding, the number of CONFIRMED reinfections worldwide is so low as to be almost zero.

Now, answer MY questions that you ignored.

[RobertM320]

Over 6.27 billion doses of vaccine have been administered worldwide. Over 2.65 billion people on this planet (34.0%) have received their shots and are fully vaccinated. This includes over 185 million people in the United States. The public is growing more confident in the vaccine because of these numbers and the data confirming the shot's safety and effectiveness.

This isn’t entirely true. I got the vaccine because of pressure from my family, and to put them at ease. Not because I wanted to or that I was confident in the vaccine.

Many others are getting the vaccine because of financial incentives and/or the threat of losing their freedoms/jobs/etc. Not because they are confident in the vaccine.

I’m not going to argue back and forth. I’m just saying that the increased number of those vaccinated in the US does not imply increased confidence.

The greater point is that the vaccine is overwhelmingly safe.

As I previously showed, virtually every medical school and association, whose members take the most respected of oaths, encourage every eligible person (regardless of covid history) to take the vaccine. You don’t want to take it, fine, but it is important to point out how those in the know totally disagree and that there is little to no evidence to support the decision not to take this life saving vaccine. That one’s decision to not take this vaccine, again in the eyes of those who know best, could compromise us all and extend this epidemic. Say nothing of these new delta strain(s).

Those are the points that many here have and will continue to make.

You're back on the talking points, mba. Pay closer attention to the words they use "Encourage". "Should", etc. And if those in the know "totally disagreed", you wouldn't have thousands of doctors having their privileges terminated and tens of thousands of healthcare workers being terminated. They do NOT "totally agree", and they're not right wing fringe lunatics either.

And that's not what they're saying. Explain how my decision not to get vaccinated, if my protection from Covid is AT LEAST as high or HIGHER than yours (an actual measurable level), would compromise anything? Again, they're referring to UNINFECTED UNVAXXED. And yet you continually try and apply those standards to a completely different group, the RECOVERED unvaxxed.

That's like saying it's cold outside, and we both put sweaters on, but then I'm told I can't go outside unless I also put a heavy coat on. That's not logical. Tell us what the levels are that would be considered "protected", and allow anyone that meets those levels the same privileges, REGARDLESS of HOW that level was achieved. But they won't, because it will do two things. 1)it will show that on average, recovered Covid have higher levels, and 2)it will show that not everyone vaxxed is as protected as they think they are, which would destroy the narrative.

[Houma de Wave]

Just an idle observation…we are in indisputably sad times when you click the “Board Index” and the Covid discussion trumps the football game of the week. Really sad times here.

Go Wave. Beat ECU!

[RobertM320]

I already debunked the 97% of doctors BS. That was a survey done by the AMA of 301 doctors. 301, of over 250K members, and 1.4 million doctors. Hardly enough to be statistically factual, as anyone who took a statistics class knows.

So answer this:

What is the purpose of a vaccine? A vaccines purpose is to teach the body how to create antibodies to a specific virus or disease, so if you come in contact with that virus later, you're protected. Correct? No bias there, just science. That's what a vaccine does. So, since my body ALREADY knows how to create those antibodies, its hard to justify the need for a vaccine.

So lets go a step further. Your argument is that the vaccine works better and for longer than natural immunity, although science is mixed regarding that. If that's the case, then set a threshold. What is the level of ABs that the vaccine creates that they feel is satisfactory protection? Lets call that number X, whatever it may be. If a person like myself can PROVE that my antibody levels are greater than or equal to X, then there's no justification for the vaccine. So tell me why I'm wrong. Because you said so? Because the govt says so? We're talking facts. If the satisfactory level of protection is X, and I've got X or better, then I don't need the vaccine, period.

Tell me the fallacy in my argument.

As I expected. A day and a half later, and no one has a legitimate answer to this. Because there IS NO fallacy in my argument.

[swampnik]

Over 6.27 billion doses of vaccine have been administered worldwide. Over 2.65 billion people on this planet (34.0%) have received their shots and are fully vaccinated. This includes over 185 million people in the United States. The public is growing more confident in the vaccine because of these numbers and the data confirming the shot's safety and effectiveness.

This isn’t entirely true. I got the vaccine because of pressure from my family, and to put them at ease. Not because I wanted to or that I was confident in the vaccine.

Many others are getting the vaccine because of financial incentives and/or the threat of losing their freedoms/jobs/etc. Not because they are confident in the vaccine.

I’m not going to argue back and forth. I’m just saying that the increased number of those vaccinated in the US does not imply increased confidence.

+1 All those that have gotten vaccinated have done so for different reasons such as Steve stated. Those have not, also span the same reasons for and against.

[GreenLantern]

Robert, Robert…

Forgive me for not responding sooner but I’ve been mourning the loss of a long-suffering loved one that has slipped the surly bonds of college football and flown into everlasting obscurity (Tulane football program). You see, not everyone is obsessed with your anti-vaxx propaganda.

Before I address your confused and confusing post, let me say that it is never a good idea to try and answer a question that uses a flawed logical syllogism. Regardless, I will make a one-time exception. Here goes:

Here’s your argument: I’ve never been vaccinated and have recovered from COVID. My antibody counts are high and I am therefore immune. Ergo, anyone that has recovered from COVID is immune.

These are the questions reasonable people would ask:

• Were you positively diagnosed with COVID?
• What about the antibody testing? Have you received (and continue to receive) multiple tests over an extended period of time?
• Do all who recover from COVID have lifelong, advanced antibody counts which offer permanent immunity?
• Has this scenario been replicated thousands of times by researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and/or the World Health Organization?
• Were all contributing factors analyzed by the interviewing agency? (For example, it’s entirely possible that if your diet includes canned dog food, your antibody count may not have been caused by COVID but by other environmental factors.)
• Do you have advanced scientific credentials that lend credibility to your assertions?
• Has the CDC and WHO confirmed your claims and recommended that vaccinations are unnecessary for recovered COVID patients?

If the answer to all of the above questions is yes, then you have changed my mind. Obviously that is not the case as I checked both the CDC and WHO and they are both still recommending the vaccine for everyone…even those who have recovered from COVID. This, after millions and millions of tests and lab analyses.

Robert, you would accomplish so much more good for society if you would remain silent. Let the scientists at the WHO and CDC do the research.

[tpstulane]

Over 6.27 billion doses of vaccine have been administered worldwide. Over 2.65 billion people on this planet (34.0%) have received their shots and are fully vaccinated. This includes over 185 million people in the United States. The public is growing more confident in the vaccine because of these numbers and the data confirming the shot's safety and effectiveness.

This isn’t entirely true. I got the vaccine because of pressure from my family, and to put them at ease. Not because I wanted to or that I was confident in the vaccine.

Many others are getting the vaccine because of financial incentives and/or the threat of losing their freedoms/jobs/etc. Not because they are confident in the vaccine.

I’m not going to argue back and forth. I’m just saying that the increased number of those vaccinated in the US does not imply increased confidence.

+1 All those that have gotten vaccinated have done so for different reasons such as Steve stated. Those have not, also span the same reasons for and against.

Exactly. I got it for the following:
1)Told I’d have 99% immunity (lie)
2)Told I wouldn’t need to wear a mask if I got vaccinated (another lie)
3) Told I would be protecting others (another lie since I can still get it and spread it)

[RobertM320]

Robert, Robert…

Forgive me for not responding sooner but I’ve been mourning the loss of a long-suffering loved one that has slipped the surly bonds of college football and flown into everlasting obscurity (Tulane football program). You see, not everyone is obsessed with your anti-vaxx propaganda.

Before I address your confused and confusing post, let me say that it is never a good idea to try and answer a question that uses a flawed logical syllogism. Regardless, I will make a one-time exception. Here goes:

Here’s your argument: I’ve never been vaccinated and have recovered from COVID. My antibody counts are high and I am therefore immune. Ergo, anyone that has recovered from COVID is immune.

These are the questions reasonable people would ask:

• Were you positively diagnosed with COVID?
• What about the antibody testing? Have you received (and continue to receive) multiple tests over an extended period of time?
• Do all who recover from COVID have lifelong, advanced antibody counts which offer permanent immunity?
• Has this scenario been replicated thousands of times by researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and/or the World Health Organization?
• Were all contributing factors analyzed by the interviewing agency? (For example, it’s entirely possible that if your diet includes canned dog food, your antibody count may not have been caused by COVID but by other environmental factors.)
• Do you have advanced scientific credentials that lend credibility to your assertions?
• Has the CDC and WHO confirmed your claims and recommended that vaccinations are unnecessary for recovered COVID patients?

If the answer to all of the above questions is yes, then you have changed my mind. Obviously that is not the case as I checked both the CDC and WHO and they are both still recommending the vaccine for everyone…even those who have recovered from COVID. This, after millions and millions of tests and lab analyses.

Robert, you would accomplish so much more good for society if you would remain silent. Let the scientists at the WHO and CDC do the research.

There you go ignoring the question again. But I'll answer yours. Again.

YES, I was positively diagnosed with COVID, in Aug 2020.
YES. I've had antibody testing, three times. Last time was about six weeks ago. Levels are very high, and I have developed T-cells as well.
I've never said everyone who gets Covid has lifelong immunity. The truth is, they don't know. Unlike the vax, which they KNOW doesn't give lifelong immunity.
The rest of your questions are bullshit because every one of those involves a political bias, and NONE of it addresses the questions I originally asked. Also, they are RECOMMENDING it, not MANDATING it. That's the government overreach.

If I have antibodies, and I can PROVE that my antibody level is higher than people who are vaxxed, why should I get vaxxed? There's no legitimate conversation in which the answer to that is yes.

Here's the simplest example. People with Type 1 diabetes need daily insulin injections because their body doesn't produce enough insulin on its own. Would you mandate that HEALTHY people ALSO get daily insulin injections? Of course not, because they ALREADY produce their own insulin. And yet, you somehow want to change the science when it comes to Covid.

Again: If I can PROVE that my antibodies are at a higher level than yours, why do I need to be vaxxed? ANSWER THE QUESTION.

[RobertM320]

All I'm asking is, if I have antibody protection comparable to you, why am I not treated the same way as you? And THAT you won't answer, because there IS NO justification. Please read with comprehension. I said IF. They won't even CONSIDER that option, because it will destroy what narrative they have left. No way will they EVER allow a comparison of antibodies between vaxxed and recovered Covid.

[gbgreenie]

All I'm asking is, if I have antibody protection comparable to you, why am I not treated the same way as you? And THAT you won't answer, because there IS NO justification. Please read with comprehension. I said IF. They won't even CONSIDER that option, because it will destroy what narrative they have left. No way will they EVER allow a comparison of antibodies between vaxxed and recovered Covid.

Stop these lies and false information, my grandaughter caught covid 3 times and son in law twice, you are lying and listening to miss information. Lies, Lies, lies Now they are finally ready for the vaccine they are fed up getting covid and the mutations.

https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2021/09 ... 632776656/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trying-sense ... 21028.html

[RobertM320]

See gbg, this is why you lose credibility. You keep spouting the same tired talking points, and post a bunch of links, but you won't answer a simple question.

ANSWER THE F**KING QUESTION.

If my antibody level is equal to or higher than yours, explain why I need the vaccine. You can't. So you just keep deflecting to the same tired talking points, instead of ANSWERING THE QUESTION.

[RobertM320]

Here you go. Every CONFIRMED case of reinfection, with DETAILS. 362 as of mid September.

https://bnonews.com/index.php/2020/08/c ... n-tracker/

And this article from Science magazine, a highly respected scientific magazine. Of course, it disagrees with you, so you probably think its another rag

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abf4063

Two specific quotes from the article:

"Overall, at 5 to 8 months PSO, almost all individuals were positive for SARS-CoV-2 spike and RBD IgG."

"Notably, memory B cells specific for the spike protein or RBD were detected in almost all COVID-19 cases, with no apparent half-life at 5 to 8 months after infection."

NO APPARENT HALF-LIFE at 5 to 8 months after infection. That means, the NATURAL immunity from having had Covid, ISNT waning over time.

[GreenLantern]

ANSWER THE F**KING QUESTION.

Sadly, I'm an ignorant country guy who grew up shoveling cow manure on a north Louisiana dairy farm. I'll have to resort to allowing those quacks at the CDC answer your question. Here's what they had to say less than a month ago:

• Most people who test positive with an antibody test can continue with normal activities, including work, but should still take steps to protect themselves and others, including getting vaccinated.
• Antibody test results should not be used to determine if someone can return to work or school.
• Antibody test results should not be used to group people together in settings such as schools, dormitories, and correctional facilities; or to exempt someone from screening testing.
• People who wear personal protective equipment (PPE) at work based on their site-specific risk assessment for the work being done should continue to wear PPE, even if they test positive for SARS-CoV-2 antibodies

So, when it comes to what's best for protecting your family, you can believe the scientists at the Centers for Disease Control, or you can trust Robert and his magazine resources. The choice is yours.

[RobertM320]

Sorry GL, that didn't answer the question. That sidesteps the question. If the vaccine provides a certain level of protection, and I can PROVE that I ALREADY have that level of protection, there's no need to vax. Its EXACTLY WHY they WONT answer the question. Make it public exactly what level of antibodies is considered "protected". They MUST know, otherwise they wouldn't know when you've dropped below that level to need a "booster". But they won't, because then, if I can PROVE I'm at or above that arbitrary level of protection, they'd have no justification to make me get vaxxed.

The human body produces insulin at a certain level. If it can't, you have to get insulin injections. So how do they know? They measure. If you're at the level, you don't need the injections, if you're below the level, you do. Real simple concept. You wouldn't give those insulin injections to someone that doesn't need it, would you? Same thing applies here. Prove to me I don't meet the levels, and I'll gladly get vaxxed.