Melvin Frazier drafted 2nd Rd, 5th pick (35th overall)

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DfromCT
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Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:46 pm

winwave wrote:
DfromCT wrote:Why does the media keep saying Mike Dunleavy is bringing in a talented class and posters here keep saying his recruiting stinks?
Not sure what media you're talking about. if it's people calling our games they are saying what they need to to promote their product. Locally the press pretty much hasn't said much on it. Last years class was two projects. We got lucky with Daniels b/c of his injury situation. This years class looks better than that and we are supposed to add a shooter who they can't name b/c they have to wait till the April signing date. There just hasn't been a signing yet that has caught the fans or media's interest. Hopefully we start racking them up soon.
The people calling our games aren't going to keep the viewers interested by saying "Tulane has some good recruits coming in next year." When choosing to watch a game who cares who's going there next year, save for the recruits and their families. Yes, that's part of the media, but I've also read Guerry Smith say some good things about the recruits. One of them is one of the best players on a HS team (Hargrave Academy) that only plays elite post-grad HS teams, and is considered one of the best HS Post Grad programs in the country.

Getting back on topic: G-League players make $20-25K The salary cap for a G-league TEAM is roughly $205-210K. Frazier's chances of making an NBA roster, being picked late in the first round or second round are not good. And frankly, I agree with others that post that the NBA scouts are a lot more finicky than the talking heads with their mock drafts. Has he really shown that he's in the top 1% of players in the NCAA game? I don't think he's in the top 1% of the AAC.


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winwave
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Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:18 pm

Actually they are going to promote it in a positive light as they have a contract with the league to show our games. I haven't said they stink and I don't think anyone else has. It's just that it's not been anyone of note. Hopefully the prep school guy will be ok but he had to do an extra year to get noticed.
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tpstulane
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Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:00 am

winwave wrote:
tpstulane wrote:Here’s something to consider: There’s 18,684 NCAA eligible players for the draft but only 60 total will be drafted and only 44 from the NCAA. Needless to say he’s going pro if he’s one of the 44.

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/res ... -athletics
Nice stat but meaningless. Only first rounders get guaranteed money. Second round means nothing. Unless he goes thru their combine and they tell him he's a first round pick he should come back. He was extremely raw when he got here. He had been a center in HS for the most part. His game needs a lot of work and we've seen MD develop him and know he can benefit from more of the same. The bottom line is people are way ahead of themselves at this point. These are mock drafts. The NBA scouts will be the determining factor.
I addressed this in another thread in more detail but wanted to clarify here as well.
In last year’s Round 2 of the NBA Draft (2017) 16 picks got guaranteed money. Of the 60 total drafted 46 got guaranteed money. So the trend is more than not in the second round are getting guaranteed money. 2nd round players have the option of Europe and other overseas leagues as leverage. I think if Frazier gets drafted in the top 45 he’ll get guaranteed money as well. Only time will tell. It will be fun watching the draft this year to see. The scouts love Frazier’s current defensive skills and his 7’2” wingspan. He’ll need some more work on his offensive skills but that’s why he’s projected where he is.

Just saw this tweet:
@prestonsports23: Tulane wing Melvin Frazier continues rapid rise on NBA Mock Draft Boards. More than a dozen league scouts were in attendance at Tulane’s final home game Thursday; Frazier moves up to #26 on ESPN top-100 NBA Draft Prospect rankings; #24 to San Antonio Spurs in 2018 Mock Draft.
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winwave
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Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:41 am

It will be interesting to see what happens now that those scouts saw him in person. They couldn't have been too impressed. It's their opinions that count not those doing mock drafts that have probably not seen him in person. Hope it works out for him but like many others that have watched him these last 3 years I don't think he's there yet.
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DfromCT
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Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:58 pm

winwave wrote:Actually they are going to promote it in a positive light as they have a contract with the league to show our games. I haven't said they stink and I don't think anyone else has. It's just that it's not been anyone of note. Hopefully the prep school guy will be ok but he had to do an extra year to get noticed.
Earlier in the thread you said they had to promote Tulane recruits to keep viewers interested in the game. Now it's for future interest. Ok, you can win this one again (only because I give up even though you've changed your tune.)

Everyone on his team, and many of the top recruits in the country "have to do an extra year to get noticed". Many of them are for academic reasons, others need to get used to being away from home. I can't speak for Hargrave, but Brewster Academy in Wolfeboro, NH (another top Post Grad program in the country) knows who will be on their team two or three years from not. Not all, but 5-6 recruits commit to go there somewhere around the middle of their Sophomore year.

The kid from Hargrave, Connor Crabtree did himself right, and didn't take the easy route going to a Military Academy. Tells me he'll adjust to college life pretty well. Time will tell if he's the real deal, and I know you'll repost this two years from now if he doesn't pan out.
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winwave
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Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:37 pm

DfromCT wrote:
winwave wrote:Actually they are going to promote it in a positive light as they have a contract with the league to show our games. I haven't said they stink and I don't think anyone else has. It's just that it's not been anyone of note. Hopefully the prep school guy will be ok but he had to do an extra year to get noticed.
Earlier in the thread you said they had to promote Tulane recruits to keep viewers interested in the game. Now it's for future interest. Ok, you can win this one again (only because I give up even though you've changed your tune.)

Everyone on his team, and many of the top recruits in the country "have to do an extra year to get noticed". Many of them are for academic reasons, others need to get used to being away from home. I can't speak for Hargrave, but Brewster Academy in Wolfeboro, NH (another top Post Grad program in the country) knows who will be on their team two or three years from not. Not all, but 5-6 recruits commit to go there somewhere around the middle of their Sophomore year.

The kid from Hargrave, Connor Crabtree did himself right, and didn't take the easy route going to a Military Academy. Tells me he'll adjust to college life pretty well. Time will tell if he's the real deal, and I know you'll repost this two years from now if he doesn't pan out.
D your desperation for me to be wrong really plays with your mind. What I said the first time was "they do it to promote their product". Their product is the AAC. :roll:

Most top recruits come straight out of HS. I get that you lean towards prep schools as you're from that area. I had a child go to one there. I know a little about it.

As to Crabtree I didn't say he wouldn't be any good. I just said we haven't signed anyone of note that would catch fans attention. As for coming back and posting something two years after things play out that never happens here. I often say things and people get all bent out of shape but when things play out that way they never come back and say sorry I was such a douche.
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DfromCT
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Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:48 pm

And neither do you!

But I forgot, you've never been wrong. You school us all, all the time.
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winwave
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Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:16 pm

This fixation isn't good for you. You have much bigger issues. Deal with them.
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tpstulane
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Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:29 am

Dunleavy on Melvin, “He’s a guy that is a very safe bet for the next level”.
http://m.fox8live.com/wvuefox8/db/34466 ... Hd/gallery
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Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:58 am

DfromCT wrote: Has he really shown that he's in the top 1% of players in the NCAA game? I don't think he's in the top 1% of the AAC.
Not to nitpick, but okay, I will.
If he is in the top 1% of the AAC, he's in the top .01% of the NCAA.
Put another way, if he's better than 99% of the AAC, he's better than 99.9% of the rest of the NCAA.
The talent level in the AAC is better than the average talent level in the NCAA.
DfromCT
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Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:10 am

DrBox wrote:
DfromCT wrote: Has he really shown that he's in the top 1% of players in the NCAA game? I don't think he's in the top 1% of the AAC.
Not to nitpick, but okay, I will.
If he is in the top 1% of the AAC, he's in the top .01% of the NCAA.
Put another way, if he's better than 99% of the AAC, he's better than 99.9% of the rest of the NCAA.
The talent level in the AAC is better than the average talent level in the NCAA.
The AAC is the 6th or 7th best conference in the country. And there are roughly 30 conferences playing D1 basketball. But some of the conferences ranked above the AAC have twice or triple the talent of the AAC. If you watched the Duke vs Carolina game last night, Melvin would have been average in that game, and out played by at least a handful of players.
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Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:16 am

DrBox wrote:
DfromCT wrote: Has he really shown that he's in the top 1% of players in the NCAA game? I don't think he's in the top 1% of the AAC.
Not to nitpick, but okay, I will.
If he is in the top 1% of the AAC, he's in the top .01% of the NCAA.
Put another way, if he's better than 99% of the AAC, he's better than 99.9% of the rest of the NCAA.
The talent level in the AAC is better than the average talent level in the NCAA.
D said he didn't think he was in the top 1% of the AAC.
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Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:17 am

DfromCT wrote:
DrBox wrote:
DfromCT wrote: Has he really shown that he's in the top 1% of players in the NCAA game? I don't think he's in the top 1% of the AAC.
Not to nitpick, but okay, I will.
If he is in the top 1% of the AAC, he's in the top .01% of the NCAA.
Put another way, if he's better than 99% of the AAC, he's better than 99.9% of the rest of the NCAA.
The talent level in the AAC is better than the average talent level in the NCAA.
The AAC is the 6th or 7th best conference in the country. And there are roughly 30 conferences playing D1 basketball. But some of the conferences ranked above the AAC have twice or triple the talent of the AAC. If you watched the Duke vs Carolina game last night, Melvin would have been average in that game, and out played by at least a handful of players.
That's true, but there are probably 10-15 conferences for which the AAC has 5 times the talent level.
I noticed a comment from one player we signed - he said that Tulane had 18 players play in the NBA team while another school he considered (College of Charleston or some school like that) had never produced a NBA player. I just say that to point out that really, except or 1 season (last in C-USA), Tulane has played in a big-boy basketball conference against top talent, much better than the NCAA average.

As for recruiting, we need a point guard.
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tpstulane
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:34 am

Going #33 here
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2761 ... ring-march
No. 33. Melvin Frazier (Tulane, SF, Junior)

Frazier was gaining steam even before his 22-point, 11-rebound, three-assist game last week against Wichita State. Averaging 1.4 threes and 2.5 steals per 40 minutes, he has some three-and-D sleeper potential, though his offensive skill remains shaky.
Knicks love his defensive ability would be a “steal” if he’s still available at the 44th pick.
https://dailyknicks.com/2018/01/31/new- ... k-draft/6/
The true appeal here is on defense, however, where he’s developing into a high-level player. He’s an elite ball hawk with the versatility to defend multiple positions and the improving ability to contest shots at the rim.
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:07 pm

galvezwave wrote:
DfromCT wrote:Why does the media keep saying Mike Dunleavy is bringing in a talented class and posters here keep saying his recruiting stinks?
I don't know if it stinks or not . Research shows we beat out nc greensboro, Hofstra and Stetson for another wing and a 6-8 180 pound forward that would have suffered the same fate as out other forwards against those animals last night. The recruiting will have to elevate
Either the recruiting needs to pick up, especially for big men, or we need more coaching help for the big guys. Right now, we are a disaster inside the paint, both offensively and defensively.
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DfromCT
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:39 pm

tpstulane wrote:Going #33 here
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2761 ... ring-march
No. 33. Melvin Frazier (Tulane, SF, Junior)

Frazier was gaining steam even before his 22-point, 11-rebound, three-assist game last week against Wichita State. Averaging 1.4 threes and 2.5 steals per 40 minutes, he has some three-and-D sleeper potential, though his offensive skill remains shaky.
Knicks love his defensive ability would be a “steal” if he’s still available at the 44th pick.
https://dailyknicks.com/2018/01/31/new- ... k-draft/6/
The true appeal here is on defense, however, where he’s developing into a high-level player. He’s an elite ball hawk with the versatility to defend multiple positions and the improving ability to contest shots at the rim.
The Knicks blog reporter, not necessarily the Knicks scouts, thought he'd be the steal of the draft at #44 A MONTH AGO. I thought he was closer to NBA ready a month ago as well, but now I don't think so.
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:01 pm

We still don't really know if Frazier is playing 100% from his injury.
I would have picked Melvin for 1st team AAC over Gray (though I love Gray's style of play too).
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:52 pm

swampnik wrote:We still don't really know if Frazier is playing 100% from his injury.
I would have picked Melvin for 1st team AAC over Gray (though I love Gray's style of play too).
I read awhile back he’s regarded as a top 5 defender in the draft. He’s only recently been considered a two way player which has only helped his draft status. Many Tulane fans only seem to judge him on his offense. The NBA scouts love his wingspan and his defensive skill set. He’s like Top 5 in the AAC in 3 categories. Points 4th, FG% 3rd and Steals 2nd.
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Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:58 am

Everyone recognizes his ability on the defensive end of the court. The reason people talk about his offense is because the bloggers are saying he's a 3 and D player and that that combo is making him rise up boards. Most disagree with that.
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Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:02 am

winwave wrote:Everyone recognizes his ability on the defensive end of the court. The reason people talk about his offense is because the bloggers are saying he's a 3 and D player and that that combo is making him rise up boards. Most disagree with that.
"Most", like whom?
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Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:19 pm

I was referring to most of our fans who attend the games regularly. I should have been clearer.
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tpstulane
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:51 pm

Frazier’s stock sky rises. Now projected #23 pick 1st Round

https://www.seccountry.com/sec/nba-mock ... 9-2018/amp
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DfromCT
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:54 pm

tpstulane wrote:Frazier’s stock sky rises. Now projected #23 pick 1st Round

https://www.seccountry.com/sec/nba-mock ... 9-2018/amp
If you're watching the NC vs. Duke game on right now, (ACC tournament Friday night) I have to ask, would he start on either team? Would he be any better than the 3rd option offensively on either team? I wish him all the best, and nothing would help Tulane basketball more than him being a first round pick AND have a great rookie season next year in the NBA. But I just don't see it. Watching lesser and greater conferences, I just don't think he's ready. I don't think he'd be in the top 7 players on the floor in this game.

Two of the three MOCK DRAFTS in the article you linked, tps, don't include Frazier in the first round. He was a great highlight player through the first two to maybe three months of the season. But he was closer to the player he was his first years at Tulane than that player the second half of the season.
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:51 pm

DfromCT wrote:
tpstulane wrote:Frazier’s stock sky rises. Now projected #23 pick 1st Round

https://www.seccountry.com/sec/nba-mock ... 9-2018/amp
If you're watching the NC vs. Duke game on right now, (ACC tournament Friday night) I have to ask, would he start on either team? Would he be any better than the 3rd option offensively on either team? I wish him all the best, and nothing would help Tulane basketball more than him being a first round pick AND have a great rookie season next year in the NBA. But I just don't see it. Watching lesser and greater conferences, I just don't think he's ready. I don't think he'd be in the top 7 players on the floor in this game.
Irrelevant. He might have the best or 2nd best defense on the court.
Too many of our fans saying he’s not NBA ready are paying attention to the wrong things. There are a lot of guys in college basketball that will help you win more games than he can. That’s not relevant. A lot of those guys don’t have games that will translate to the NBA.
Now he may not be ready, but saying, for example, that Shaq Morris is a better college player than Frazier isn’t relevant. College and Pro games are worlds apart.
If you can play good defense at the SF/SG position like people think Frazier will be able to, he won’t necessarily have to be good on offense. Look at Andre Roberson of the Thunder. Can’t shoot a lick but he gets 25 minutes a game because of his defense.
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Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:24 am

That's right, PW. So many NBA players make huge money because of their D.

I know there's not a direct correlation between a player having a good college game and that translating into success in the NBA. But the biggest difference is that most NBA players are quicker than the competition Frazier has faced in the AAC, and for the most part, until the final 5 minutes of the game, it's MUCH more about putting points on the board than it is about playing lock down D. That's why I don't like the NBA.
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