2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

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2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby Wave755 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:58 am

Ho-hum - Princeton 1, Tulane 40, LSWHO? 133, La. Tech 216, & ULALA unranked Tier 2 as always. :D

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ra ... iversities



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:48 am

It's great when Tulane doesn't fall far, but it's still an uphill climb with so much competition in the South alone in the top 100:

9. Duke
14. Rice
14. Vanderbilt
18. WashU
21. Emory

25. UVirginia
27. Wake Forest
30. UNC
32. William and Mary
34. GaTech
42. Florida

46. Miami
54. Georgia
56. Texas at Austin
61. SMU
69. Texas A&M
69. VaTech
75. Baylor
78. TCU

81. FSU
81. NC State
87. Tulsa
97. UOklahoma

Private research institutions with endowments above $3B are bolded, private schools with similar endowments as Tulane are italicized, and public schools with larger endowments than Tulane are underlined.



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby DfromCT » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:35 pm

When I was applying to college, in 1980, Tulane and Emory were dead even. Vanderbilt, Stanford and Rice were considered Peers, though they were a bit higher ranked.


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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby Wave755 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:10 pm

DfromCT wrote:When I was applying to college, in 1980, Tulane and Emory were dead even. Vanderbilt, Stanford and Rice were considered Peers, though they were a bit higher ranked.

Hmm, in 1980 our endowment was valued at about 75 million?



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby golfnut69 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:02 pm



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby Wave755 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:28 pm


Just confirms Tulane's preeminence for Louisiana since 1834 to present.



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby DfromCT » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:56 pm

Now tied with Northeastern? When I was applying to colleges, Northeastern was a big time fall back school with nowhere near the reputation of Tulane. Times change.

755, I don't know that the size of the endowment was a factor in USN&WR rankings then (or now).


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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby GreenPuddleSplash » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:14 pm

DfromCT wrote:Now tied with Northeastern? When I was applying to colleges, Northeastern was a big time fall back school with nowhere near the reputation of Tulane. Times change.

755, I don't know that the size of the endowment was a factor in USN&WR rankings then (or now).


Same for me D. I remember going to boarding school in Western MA and our college counselors pushing Northeastern as a safety school.



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby Wave755 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:31 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:It's great when Tulane doesn't fall far, but it's still an uphill climb with so much competition in the South alone in the top 100:

9. Duke
14. Rice
14. Vanderbilt
18. WashU
21. Emory

25. UVirginia
27. Wake Forest
30. UNC
32. William and Mary
34. GaTech
42. Florida

46. Miami
54. Georgia
56. Texas at Austin
61. SMU
69. Texas A&M
69. VaTech
75. Baylor
78. TCU

81. FSU
81. NC State
87. Tulsa
97. UOklahoma

Private research institutions with endowments above $3B are bolded, private schools with similar endowments as Tulane are italicized, and public schools with larger endowments than Tulane are underlined.

But, don't forget Aberzombie, while a school like Texas for example has an endowment of 3.6 billion it also has 51,000+ students. Tulane has an endowment of 1.17 billion but only 13,000+ students. And, what makes Rice so formidable is an endowment of 5.3 billion yet only 6,600+ students.

Do the math.



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:28 am

Each university has its own nuances that make it relatively unique compared to other universities, such as Texas-Austin having to accept the top 7-10% of all Texas public high school students (Texas A&M is similar but it is not as well regarded). If Texas-Austin didn't have to do that, it would likely be top 25ish (i.e. ranked about the same as CAL) since it would, among other things, be able to be far more selective with its student body than it is now.

As for Northeastern University, it has a history of explicitly gaming the US News rankings:

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/arti ... -rankings/

http://www.wbur.org/news/2014/09/09/nor ... ing-system

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktak ... sing-pitch

https://www.capstonewealthpartners.com/ ... -rankings/

http://triangletestprep.blogspot.com/20 ... stern.html



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby RollWaveRoll » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:04 pm

guys....endowments have everything to do with this. dont let anyone else tell you they dont, regardless of what they say the equation is. If you don't believe it, then keep trying to figure out how we go backwards every decade or so. Hence the reason why all the privates with 3B$ are all top 25 and we are not.

I've said this before, but we are getting left behind.....their needs to be a huge huge massive fundraiser push by the new president ASAP that exceeds 1B$ plus dollars preferrably 2-3B as all of our peers have done recently. All of that money needs to be added to the endowment. otherwise we will bleed a slow slow death down the rankings. Before you know it, the next generation we will be ranked in the 70-80s and falling.

pretty simple...the universities with more resources perform the best, and can give out more schollies to attract the best students etc etc. Endowment and rankings go hand in hand.



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby DfromCT » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:44 pm

RollWaveRoll wrote:guys....endowments have everything to do with this. dont let anyone else tell you they dont, regardless of what they say the equation is. If you don't believe it, then keep trying to figure out how we go backwards every decade or so. Hence the reason why all the privates with 3B$ are all top 25 and we are not.

I've said this before, but we are getting left behind.....their needs to be a huge huge massive fundraiser push by the new president ASAP that exceeds 1B$ plus dollars preferrably 2-3B as all of our peers have done recently. All of that money needs to be added to the endowment. otherwise we will bleed a slow slow death down the rankings. Before you know it, the next generation we will be ranked in the 70-80s and falling.

pretty simple...the universities with more resources perform the best, and can give out more schollies to attract the best students etc etc. Endowment and rankings go hand in hand.


I do believe Fritz announced a fundraising effort with a $ billion goal sometime in the last year. I've never said that endowment isn't a factor, but I feel it's more of a trickle down ("because we have this large an endowment we can do this, this and this to make our academics and student lifestyle better.") affect. I don't think USN&WR has endowment as a criteria; I certainly didn't read that it was in any of the "gaming the rankings" articles posted above.

I found it hilarious that one of the items in the press notes for the OU game was something along the lines of "Tulane is ranked #57 private University in terms of value." For the cost of attending Tulane, grants and aid aside, the Tulane degree is WAY overvalued, IMHO. I love Tulane and am a chest thumping proud alumnus. But someone could get an undergrad, grad and doctorate degrees from a very good state school or even a lower ranked state school, be just as successful in life (and in many cases more successful) for the cost of a Tulane Undergrad degree. Cost of attendance is too damned high.


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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby Wave755 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:27 pm

DfromCT wrote:
RollWaveRoll wrote:guys....endowments have everything to do with this. dont let anyone else tell you they dont, regardless of what they say the equation is. If you don't believe it, then keep trying to figure out how we go backwards every decade or so. Hence the reason why all the privates with 3B$ are all top 25 and we are not.

I've said this before, but we are getting left behind.....their needs to be a huge huge massive fundraiser push by the new president ASAP that exceeds 1B$ plus dollars preferrably 2-3B as all of our peers have done recently. All of that money needs to be added to the endowment. otherwise we will bleed a slow slow death down the rankings. Before you know it, the next generation we will be ranked in the 70-80s and falling.

pretty simple...the universities with more resources perform the best, and can give out more schollies to attract the best students etc etc. Endowment and rankings go hand in hand.


I do believe Fritz announced a fundraising effort with a $ billion goal sometime in the last year. I've never said that endowment isn't a factor, but I feel it's more of a trickle down ("because we have this large an endowment we can do this, this and this to make our academics and student lifestyle better.") affect. I don't think USN&WR has endowment as a criteria; I certainly didn't read that it was in any of the "gaming the rankings" articles posted above.

I found it hilarious that one of the items in the press notes for the OU game was something along the lines of "Tulane is ranked #57 private University in terms of value." For the cost of attending Tulane, grants and aid aside, the Tulane degree is WAY overvalued, IMHO. I love Tulane and am a chest thumping proud alumnus. But someone could get an undergrad, grad and doctorate degrees from a very good state school or even a lower ranked state school, be just as successful in life (and in many cases more successful) for the cost of a Tulane Undergrad degree. Cost of attendance is too damned high.

Or, Fried Chicken King Al Copeland didn't go to college at all and became very wealthy nonetheless. So, you could make the same argument that as for Fried Chicken King Al Copeland going to no college at all can be an even "better deal" than attending a "lower ranked state school." :-D



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:44 am

DfromCT wrote:I do believe Fritz announced a fundraising effort with a $ billion goal sometime in the last year. I've never said that endowment isn't a factor, but I feel it's more of a trickle down ("because we have this large an endowment we can do this, this and this to make our academics and student lifestyle better.") affect. I don't think USN&WR has endowment as a criteria; I certainly didn't read that it was in any of the "gaming the rankings" articles posted above.

I found it hilarious that one of the items in the press notes for the OU game was something along the lines of "Tulane is ranked #57 private University in terms of value." For the cost of attending Tulane, grants and aid aside, the Tulane degree is WAY overvalued, IMHO. I love Tulane and am a chest thumping proud alumnus. But someone could get an undergrad, grad and doctorate degrees from a very good state school or even a lower ranked state school, be just as successful in life (and in many cases more successful) for the cost of a Tulane Undergrad degree. Cost of attendance is too damned high.


Fritz actually announced it way back in 2014, but there has not been much news about it.

The best value rankings value certain items that are of varying importance, but the real observation from the 2017 version of those rankings is that it shows that Tulane gives 54% percent of its class that does not require need non-need aid with an average award of ~$23,900 and its average award to students with need is ~$31,400. In abstract, this has some meaning, but the real meaning is when that is compared to Tulane's historical peers:

Percentage of non-need students that receive a non-need award and the average amount of the award:
Tulane - 54%/~$23,900
Vanderbilt - 20%/~$22,000
Rice - 18%/~$16,400
WashU - 15%/~$6,800
Emory - 8%/~$28,700
Duke - 5%/~$61,100

Tulane stands out since it awards non-need aid to the majority of the non-need students and no other school in the group comes close to doing that. This tends to support the argument that Tulane buys its high scores from wealthy students that would not have received aid at the other schools.

Average award for students that show need:
Tulane - ~$31,400
Vanderbilt - ~$40,300
Rice - ~$36,000
WashU - ~$37,600
Emory - ~$39,400
Duke - ~$44,700

Tulane is closer here, but it's still the worst of the group.

http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/college/T ... ?table=all



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby mbawavefan12 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:09 am

DfromCT wrote:
RollWaveRoll wrote:guys....endowments have everything to do with this. dont let anyone else tell you they dont, regardless of what they say the equation is. If you don't believe it, then keep trying to figure out how we go backwards every decade or so. Hence the reason why all the privates with 3B$ are all top 25 and we are not.

I've said this before, but we are getting left behind.....their needs to be a huge huge massive fundraiser push by the new president ASAP that exceeds 1B$ plus dollars preferrably 2-3B as all of our peers have done recently. All of that money needs to be added to the endowment. otherwise we will bleed a slow slow death down the rankings. Before you know it, the next generation we will be ranked in the 70-80s and falling.

pretty simple...the universities with more resources perform the best, and can give out more schollies to attract the best students etc etc. Endowment and rankings go hand in hand.


I do believe Fritz announced a fundraising effort with a $ billion goal sometime in the last year. I've never said that endowment isn't a factor, but I feel it's more of a trickle down ("because we have this large an endowment we can do this, this and this to make our academics and student lifestyle better.") affect. I don't think USN&WR has endowment as a criteria; I certainly didn't read that it was in any of the "gaming the rankings" articles posted above.

I found it hilarious that one of the items in the press notes for the OU game was something along the lines of "Tulane is ranked #57 private University in terms of value." For the cost of attending Tulane, grants and aid aside, the Tulane degree is WAY overvalued, IMHO. I love Tulane and am a chest thumping proud alumnus. But someone could get an undergrad, grad and doctorate degrees from a very good state school or even a lower ranked state school, be just as successful in life (and in many cases more successful) for the cost of a Tulane Undergrad degree. Cost of attendance is too damned high.


Endowment is indirectly related to the US News Rankings. These massive endowments for the top 25ish schools (both National Universities and Colleges) allow them to cover the full cost of attendance based on need. So they no longer have to depend on trust fund babies and can just slect whomever is the best candidate, it's a huge advantage. Look at Olin College in Needham, MA. It is a top 5 Engineering program because it is fully funded and free.



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby cajunfanatico » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:23 am

Wave755 wrote:Ho-hum - Princeton 1, Tulane 40, LSWHO? 133, La. Tech 216, & ULALA unranked Tier 2 as always. :D

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ra ... iversities


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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby Wave755 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:08 pm

cajunfanatico wrote:
Wave755 wrote:Ho-hum - Princeton 1, Tulane 40, LSWHO? 133, La. Tech 216, & ULALA unranked Tier 2 as always. :D

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/ra ... iversities


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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby GreenLantern » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:24 pm

RollWaveRoll wrote:....endowments have everything to do with this. dont let anyone else tell you they dont, regardless of what they say the equation is. If you don't believe it, then keep trying to figure out how we go backwards every decade or so. Hence the reason why all the privates with 3B$ are all top 25 and we are not.


Interesting point about endowments. Here are the endowment amounts (in $millions) as of 2016 for several schools of interest to Tulane. The AAC schools are blue:
Image



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby OUG » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:53 pm

DfromCT wrote:
RollWaveRoll wrote:guys....endowments have everything to do with this. dont let anyone else tell you they dont, regardless of what they say the equation is. If you don't believe it, then keep trying to figure out how we go backwards every decade or so. Hence the reason why all the privates with 3B$ are all top 25 and we are not.

I've said this before, but we are getting left behind.....their needs to be a huge huge massive fundraiser push by the new president ASAP that exceeds 1B$ plus dollars preferrably 2-3B as all of our peers have done recently. All of that money needs to be added to the endowment. otherwise we will bleed a slow slow death down the rankings. Before you know it, the next generation we will be ranked in the 70-80s and falling.

pretty simple...the universities with more resources perform the best, and can give out more schollies to attract the best students etc etc. Endowment and rankings go hand in hand.


I do believe Fritz announced a fundraising effort with a $ billion goal sometime in the last year. I've never said that endowment isn't a factor, but I feel it's more of a trickle down ("because we have this large an endowment we can do this, this and this to make our academics and student lifestyle better.") affect. I don't think USN&WR has endowment as a criteria; I certainly didn't read that it was in any of the "gaming the rankings" articles posted above.

I found it hilarious that one of the items in the press notes for the OU game was something along the lines of "Tulane is ranked #57 private University in terms of value." For the cost of attending Tulane, grants and aid aside, the Tulane degree is WAY overvalued, IMHO. I love Tulane and am a chest thumping proud alumnus. But someone could get an undergrad, grad and doctorate degrees from a very good state school or even a lower ranked state school, be just as successful in life (and in many cases more successful) for the cost of a Tulane Undergrad degree. Cost of attendance is too damned high.


Factoring out all of the grants and aid the school gives students is a very strange way of talking about value.

The only cost of attendance kids and their parents care about is what their cost of attendance is. That's it. If Tulane's sticker price is $60k and they give you $30k in grants-in-aid, Tulane's cost of attendance for you is $30k. Now, you could argue that the sticker price reflects costs that are too high, and that's fine, but it's all a paper transfer in the end. And you could say that $30k still isn't a good value. Still, I can't see why you would say, "let's set aside the 10's of thousands they lop off the top of the price." Seems odd.

This is the case with basically all private universities these days, and certainly all of our competitors in these rankings. Nobody pays retail anymore. The one exception I have noticed is GW, where non-need aid is very hard to come by and the sticker price is still very high.

Very few universities live up to a straight dollars-to-dollars value test where there is some equation based on expected future earnings, etc. Certainly if you see a degree as ONLY a job cert/training program, most top tier universities don't add up. What Tulane (and it's peers, both public and private) are selling is a superior undergraduate experience that helps shape the kind of person you become. This stuff is hard to price, and different applicants are going to place different values on different pieces of it. If you gave me $70k in cash savings today and said, "we are taking away your Tulane experience and replacing it with a University of Georgia experience", I don't think I'd make that deal (and I mean no disrespect to UGA). Again, the value of these intangibles is always in the eye of the beholder.



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby OUG » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:57 pm

RollWaveRoll wrote:guys....endowments have everything to do with this. dont let anyone else tell you they dont, regardless of what they say the equation is. If you don't believe it, then keep trying to figure out how we go backwards every decade or so. Hence the reason why all the privates with 3B$ are all top 25 and we are not.

I've said this before, but we are getting left behind.....their needs to be a huge huge massive fundraiser push by the new president ASAP that exceeds 1B$ plus dollars preferrably 2-3B as all of our peers have done recently. All of that money needs to be added to the endowment. otherwise we will bleed a slow slow death down the rankings. Before you know it, the next generation we will be ranked in the 70-80s and falling.

pretty simple...the universities with more resources perform the best, and can give out more schollies to attract the best students etc etc. Endowment and rankings go hand in hand.


Endowment is important but I would point out that we are ten spots higher in the rankings than we were ten years ago so I'm not sure this so bleed is playing out quite the way you suggest.



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:31 pm

OUG wrote:
RollWaveRoll wrote:guys....endowments have everything to do with this. dont let anyone else tell you they dont, regardless of what they say the equation is. If you don't believe it, then keep trying to figure out how we go backwards every decade or so. Hence the reason why all the privates with 3B$ are all top 25 and we are not.

I've said this before, but we are getting left behind.....their needs to be a huge huge massive fundraiser push by the new president ASAP that exceeds 1B$ plus dollars preferrably 2-3B as all of our peers have done recently. All of that money needs to be added to the endowment. otherwise we will bleed a slow slow death down the rankings. Before you know it, the next generation we will be ranked in the 70-80s and falling.

pretty simple...the universities with more resources perform the best, and can give out more schollies to attract the best students etc etc. Endowment and rankings go hand in hand.


Endowment is important but I would point out that we are ten spots higher in the rankings than we were ten years ago so I'm not sure this so bleed is playing out quite the way you suggest.


The issue with Tulane is that although it can currently still buy wealthy students with high scores using non-need aid, it will eventually run into issues convincing those students to attend Tulane as the schools ranked around Tulane continue to improve their programs and Tulane does not. For example, not too many years ago, Tulane was head and shoulders above schools like Emory, GaTech, and Boston University.



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby Wave755 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:10 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
OUG wrote:
RollWaveRoll wrote:guys....endowments have everything to do with this. dont let anyone else tell you they dont, regardless of what they say the equation is. If you don't believe it, then keep trying to figure out how we go backwards every decade or so. Hence the reason why all the privates with 3B$ are all top 25 and we are not.

I've said this before, but we are getting left behind.....their needs to be a huge huge massive fundraiser push by the new president ASAP that exceeds 1B$ plus dollars preferrably 2-3B as all of our peers have done recently. All of that money needs to be added to the endowment. otherwise we will bleed a slow slow death down the rankings. Before you know it, the next generation we will be ranked in the 70-80s and falling.

pretty simple...the universities with more resources perform the best, and can give out more schollies to attract the best students etc etc. Endowment and rankings go hand in hand.


Endowment is important but I would point out that we are ten spots higher in the rankings than we were ten years ago so I'm not sure this so bleed is playing out quite the way you suggest.


The issue with Tulane is that although it can currently still buy wealthy students with high scores using non-need aid, it will eventually run into issues convincing those students to attend Tulane as the schools ranked around Tulane continue to improve their programs and Tulane does not. For example, not too many years ago, Tulane was head and shoulders above schools like Emory, GaTech, and Boston University.

In our lifetimes Tulane has never been a "head and shoulder" above Emory. Emory's endowment is 6.4 billion, a big thank you for Emory to CocaCola.



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:24 pm

We can agree to disagree on that. Emory didn't really start reaping the rewards from Coke and become relevant until the late 1980s - it didn't even become a member of the AAU until 1995 while Tulane was added way back in 1958.



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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby DfromCT » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:49 pm

Schools that are a lot less expensive than Tulane give out aid as well. We don't have a monopoly on financial assistance. My daughters cost of attending UCF is about $11K/ yr and it has allowed her to create a major between disciplines of education and management. Yes, she's in-state, but they gave her a lot of money because of her grades even though she transferred in.


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Re: 2018 USN&WR BEST COLLEGES RANKINGS

Postby OUG » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:29 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
OUG wrote:
RollWaveRoll wrote:guys....endowments have everything to do with this. dont let anyone else tell you they dont, regardless of what they say the equation is. If you don't believe it, then keep trying to figure out how we go backwards every decade or so. Hence the reason why all the privates with 3B$ are all top 25 and we are not.

I've said this before, but we are getting left behind.....their needs to be a huge huge massive fundraiser push by the new president ASAP that exceeds 1B$ plus dollars preferrably 2-3B as all of our peers have done recently. All of that money needs to be added to the endowment. otherwise we will bleed a slow slow death down the rankings. Before you know it, the next generation we will be ranked in the 70-80s and falling.

pretty simple...the universities with more resources perform the best, and can give out more schollies to attract the best students etc etc. Endowment and rankings go hand in hand.


Endowment is important but I would point out that we are ten spots higher in the rankings than we were ten years ago so I'm not sure this so bleed is playing out quite the way you suggest.


The issue with Tulane is that although it can currently still buy wealthy students with high scores using non-need aid, it will eventually run into issues convincing those students to attend Tulane as the schools ranked around Tulane continue to improve their programs and Tulane does not. For example, not too many years ago, Tulane was head and shoulders above schools like Emory, GaTech, and Boston University.


It gets back to experience. Honestly we offer something in New Orleans that Atlanta can't. And I say that having lived in both. Does it make us better? No, but it is enough to make us competitive.



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