Big XII Expansion

Discuss anything else athletic or non-athletic related that doesn't belong on the main Tulane athletics forum.
jonathanjoseph
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Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:19 am

Per the the thread about the Navy upset over Houston, the current situation is getting better for the AAC (and Tulane) quickly.

Houston is still ranked in the top 10. There are 3 other AAC teams ranked in the top 40, and that's with ECU and Cincy both currently rated lower than Tulane. Tulane, UCF and USF are all trending upward quickly. On the field, the AAC as a conference is quickly closing the gap on the Big12, full stop, no qualifiers. If this continues, there will be some chaos and renegotiation and Aresco could be holding a lot of cards.

I'm quickly becoming more interested in chaos than an invite to an unstable B12.


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Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:11 pm

Gap is closing. Early Massey ratings, with 71 rankings in.

B10 49.85
B12 55.69
AAC 61.99

MWC 84.05

B12 is -5.84 behind B10, and +6.30 ahead of AAC. If AAC teams just continue to improve, by the time our TV deal is due to renew, Aresco should be in a strong position. We may be ranking higher than B12, or even B10. All of us need to improve our schedules and keep improving our teams. It will get interesting.
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jonathanjoseph
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Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:47 pm

RobertM320 wrote:Gap is closing. Early Massey ratings, with 71 rankings in.

B10 49.85
B12 55.69

AAC 61.99

MWC 84.05

B12 is -5.84 behind B10, and +6.30 ahead of AAC. If AAC teams just continue to improve, by the time our TV deal is due to renew, Aresco should be in a strong position. We may be ranking higher than B12, or even B10. All of us need to improve our schedules and keep improving our teams. It will get interesting.
Yup.
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Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:13 pm

RobertM320 wrote:Gap is closing. Early Massey ratings, with 71 rankings in.

B10 49.85
B12 55.69
AAC 61.99

MWC 84.05

B12 is -5.84 behind B10, and +6.30 ahead of AAC. If AAC teams just continue to improve, by the time our TV deal is due to renew, Aresco should be in a strong position. We may be ranking higher than B12, or even B10. All of us need to improve our schedules and keep improving our teams. It will get interesting.
Maybe OU and UT will apply for admission to the AAC. :fastclap:
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
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Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:50 pm

HoustonWave wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:Gap is closing. Early Massey ratings, with 71 rankings in.

B10 49.85
B12 55.69
AAC 61.99

MWC 84.05

B12 is -5.84 behind B10, and +6.30 ahead of AAC. If AAC teams just continue to improve, by the time our TV deal is due to renew, Aresco should be in a strong position. We may be ranking higher than B12, or even B10. All of us need to improve our schedules and keep improving our teams. It will get interesting.
Maybe OU and UT will apply for admission to the AAC. :fastclap:
considering OU lost to Houston at least one of them would be no better than 2nd place !!!
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:56 am

It's good to see that the AAC is generally considered to be strong. However, if the AAC doesn't:
1. Land the G5 New Years Six bowl slot
2. Increase viewership ratings for AAC conference games
3. Win more games against top flight competition
it won't matter how good we are when it comes to renegotiating a contract.

Landing the New Years Six slot.
1. It seems unlikely that a two loss AAC champ will take the New Years Six slot given the current competition from other conferences, namely an undefeated Western Michigan and an undefeated Boise State (although a 1 loss Air Force, SDSU, Boise, WMU, or Toledo would have a shot). That means Temple, Tulane, and UCF are all pretty much out of the New Years Six mix unless chaos ensues.
2. Houston has zero shot of making the AAC champ game unless Navy loses twice in conference, and, if Houston doesn't win the conference, it seems unlikely that it would get the New Years Six slot given the history of the committee.*
3. Navy has two OOC games remaining against Notre Dame and Army and the latter game takes place after the AAC Champ game. In theory, Navy could win out through the title game but then lose to Army afterwards and be knocked out of the New Years Six slot.
4. Navy plays USF in the regular season, so, if Navy goes undefeated into the AAC Champ game, the AAC East Division winner will have at least two losses - whether the representative is USF (2-0 in conference), UCF (1-0) or Temple (1-1).
5. Aside from Navy, Memphis, Tulsa, or USF could win out and be able to have a great shot at the New Years Six slot. Note also that, like Navy, Memphis plays USF in the regular season and this could have a major impact on which teams make it to the AAC title game since division winners will have the best overall conference record and not just the best conference record against only teams in their division. Those four teams (and Houston to a lesser extent since Houston is 2 games behind Navy in conference) and their records will pretty much determine whether the AAC gets the New Years Six slot.

TV Ratings
This has been discussed before. For week 6, the Memphis v. Temple game on ESPN had no competition and it was the lowest rated game on "regular" ESPN so far this season, while the SMU and Tulsa game on ESPN2 was the second lowest rated ESPN2 game of the season so far (the lowest being Utah State/Boise State).

Win more games against top flight competition
The AAC had many opportunities to have ranked teams prior to this past weekend by having teams defeat OOC opponents, but, with the exception already ranked Houston (Oklahoma), the rest of the conference fell short and the games generally weren't close - Navy (Air Force), USF (FSU), Memphis (Ole Miss), Tulsa (Ohio State), UCF (Michigan), etc. Had any of those teams won one of those games, they would have been ranked and drawn a lot more interest in the conference by football fans and by the tv networks by drawing more games that involve that ranked team to the highest profile channels.

*EDIT: The playoff rules themselves indicate that the G5 New Years Six slot goes to the highest ranked G5 Champ, so Houston is completely out unless Navy loses twice in conference -and- Houston doesn't lose again in conference. Houston would likely still be out of the New Years Six if it didn't lose again in conference, Navy loses twice in conference, and Houston loses to Louisville.

"10. Pairings for Selected Other Bowl Games.
A. All displaced conference champions
and the highest ranked champion from
a non-contract conference,
as ranked
by the committee, will participate in
selected other bowl games and will
be assigned to those games by the
committee. If berths in the selected
other bowl games remain available
after those teams have been identified,
the highest ranked other teams, as
ranked by the committee, will fill those
berths in rank order. "

http://cfp-cms-s3-prod.slcfp.com/wp-con ... df#page=16 (page 24)
jonathanjoseph
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:37 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:It's good to see that the AAC is generally considered to be strong. However, if the AAC doesn't:
1. Land the G5 New Years Six bowl slot
2. Increase viewership ratings for AAC conference games
3. Win more games against top flight competition
it won't matter how good we are when it comes to renegotiating a contract.
Another garbage post designed to paint the absolute worst picture possible.

1) The AAC was in the Peach Bowl 10 months ago.
2) AAC ratings are up compared to peer conferences, and gaining fast (and people are continuing to pretend like we didn't out-rate a B12 game head to head)
3) An AAC team won a game vs a top 10 team 5 days ago.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:27 pm

I agree with #3 for sure, JJ. Just because the top 10 team happens to be in the AAC, doesn't discount the value of the win. Heck, that's the crux of the argument the SEC uses all the time. "Look at all the ranked teams we play"

Also, its not like we're renegotiating this contract next spring. There are still a couple of years left on the current one. Its not about this one season, its about positioning as a whole.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:27 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote: TV Ratings
This has been discussed before. For week 6, the Memphis v. Temple game on ESPN had no competition and it was the lowest rated game on "regular" ESPN so far this season, while the SMU and Tulsa game on ESPN2 was the second lowest rated ESPN2 game of the season so far (the lowest being Utah State/Boise State).
I don't know what you mean the Memphis v Temple game had no competition. The Indians-Red Sox playoff game and the Thursday night NFL game were pretty stout competition. The SMU-Tulsa game was up against an epic Cubs-Giants (1-0) playoff game at Wrigley as well as other playoff games.

You could have put Iowa State and Texas Tech in that time slot and I'd bet it wouldn't have drawn much or any better.

It's October. The casual sports fan is watching baseball, and the casual sports fan is always going to watch the NFL over college football.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:34 pm

OUG wrote:
I don't know what you mean the Memphis v Temple game had no competition. The Indians-Red Sox playoff game and the Thursday night NFL game were pretty stout competition. The SMU-Tulsa game was up against an epic Cubs-Giants (1-0) playoff game at Wrigley as well as other playoff games.

You could have put Iowa State and Texas Tech in that time slot and I'd bet it wouldn't have drawn much or any better.

It's October. The casual sports fan is watching baseball, and the casual sports fan is always going to watch the NFL over college football.
It was the lowest rated game on ESPN so far this season, and it didn't have any NFL/CFB competition for anyone to claim that other football games took away attention from it. Personally, I don't mean to single that game out, but there are only so many AAC conference games available with viewership numbers that don't involve Houston, and the games that we do have have not been particularly notable.
Last edited by Aberzombie1892 on Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:37 pm

jonathanjoseph wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:It's good to see that the AAC is generally considered to be strong. However, if the AAC doesn't:
1. Land the G5 New Years Six bowl slot
2. Increase viewership ratings for AAC conference games
3. Win more games against top flight competition
it won't matter how good we are when it comes to renegotiating a contract.
Another garbage post designed to paint the absolute worst picture possible.

1) The AAC was in the Peach Bowl 10 months ago.
2) AAC ratings are up compared to peer conferences, and gaining fast (and people are continuing to pretend like we didn't out-rate a B12 game head to head)
3) An AAC team won a game vs a top 10 team 5 days ago.
#2 and #3 are hilarious. Will you be here all the week?
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:39 pm

mbawavefan12 wrote:
jonathanjoseph wrote: Another garbage post designed to paint the absolute worst picture possible.

1) The AAC was in the Peach Bowl 10 months ago.
2) AAC ratings are up compared to peer conferences, and gaining fast (and people are continuing to pretend like we didn't out-rate a B12 game head to head)
3) An AAC team won a game vs a top 10 team 5 days ago.
#2 and #3 are hilarious. Will you be here all the week?
I'm glad that someone else saw that that post wasn't worth taking seriously.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:42 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
OUG wrote:
I don't know what you mean the Memphis v Temple game had no competition. The Indians-Red Sox playoff game and the Thursday night NFL game were pretty stout competition. The SMU-Tulsa game was up against an epic Cubs-Giants (1-0) playoff game at Wrigley as well as other playoff games.

You could have put Iowa State and Texas Tech in that time slot and I'd bet it wouldn't have drawn much or any better.

It's October. The casual sports fan is watching baseball, and the casual sports fan is always going to watch the NFL over college football.
It was the lowest rated game on ESPN so far this season, and it didn't have any NFL/CFB competition for anyone to claim that other football games took away attention from it. Personally, I don't mean to single that game out, but there are only so many AAC conference games available with viewership numbers that don't involve Houston, and the games that we do have have not been particularly notable.
So the "only" competition was a MLB baseball game, which was on FS1, and we've previously established that ESPN contests always have better ratings than FS1 because sports fans don't know how to find FS1 or something like that. So if the ESPN ratings were below FS1 again, then I guess we have a ripple in the time-space continuum.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:44 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
jonathanjoseph wrote: Another garbage post designed to paint the absolute worst picture possible.

1) The AAC was in the Peach Bowl 10 months ago.
2) AAC ratings are up compared to peer conferences, and gaining fast (and people are continuing to pretend like we didn't out-rate a B12 game head to head)
3) An AAC team won a game vs a top 10 team 5 days ago.
#2 and #3 are hilarious. Will you be here all the week?
I'm glad that someone else saw that that post wasn't worth taking seriously.
The typical personal attacks aside, those seem like fairly obvious factual statements. Can either of you, without using a personal attack, refute the point?
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 1:49 pm

mbawavefan12 wrote:
jonathanjoseph wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:It's good to see that the AAC is generally considered to be strong. However, if the AAC doesn't:
1. Land the G5 New Years Six bowl slot
2. Increase viewership ratings for AAC conference games
3. Win more games against top flight competition
it won't matter how good we are when it comes to renegotiating a contract.
Another garbage post designed to paint the absolute worst picture possible.

1) The AAC was in the Peach Bowl 10 months ago.
2) AAC ratings are up compared to peer conferences, and gaining fast (and people are continuing to pretend like we didn't out-rate a B12 game head to head)
3) An AAC team won a game vs a top 10 team 5 days ago.
#2 and #3 are hilarious. Will you be here all the week?
Not sure what you think is so hilarious about #3, unless you're actually referring to Aberzombies post, not JJ's. Is Navy in the AAC? Did Navy defeat a Top Ten ranked team last week? What's so hilarious about something that's 100% factual?
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mbawavefan12
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:00 pm

RobertM320 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
jonathanjoseph wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:It's good to see that the AAC is generally considered to be strong. However, if the AAC doesn't:
1. Land the G5 New Years Six bowl slot
2. Increase viewership ratings for AAC conference games
3. Win more games against top flight competition
it won't matter how good we are when it comes to renegotiating a contract.
Another garbage post designed to paint the absolute worst picture possible.

1) The AAC was in the Peach Bowl 10 months ago.
2) AAC ratings are up compared to peer conferences, and gaining fast (and people are continuing to pretend like we didn't out-rate a B12 game head to head)
3) An AAC team won a game vs a top 10 team 5 days ago.
#2 and #3 are hilarious. Will you be here all the week?
Not sure what you think is so hilarious about #3, unless you're actually referring to Aberzombies post, not JJ's. Is Navy in the AAC? Did Navy defeat a Top Ten ranked team last week? What's so hilarious about something that's 100% factual?
They beat a team in our own league and potentially cost us a New Year's bowl slot. It's a silly point as it hurt the league more than it helped.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:09 pm

What MBA said.

If someone says, "If the AAC needs to win more games against top flight competition...", they don't mean conference games, and, by signaling "The AAC", it's obvious they aren't referring to conference games where the AAC wins either way. It's difficult to attempt to justify interpreting it as an intra-conference statement given that signaling.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:18 pm

It didn't help with NY6 Bowl, but that's short term.

And you can't say that Navy beating #6 Houston is the same as Navy beating Tulane, or Houston beating Cincinnati. Houston was a Top Ten team, just like Clemson, Louisville, Alabama or Michigan, and Navy beat them. How can you not give credit for that? Isn't that exactly what SEC/ACC/B1G use all the time? Clemson beat Louisville, Clemson beat Florida State, etc. Do they not count because they were ACC teams? When the TV networks sit down to negotiate with Aresco, you don't think that win by Navy will be counted in the number of wins vs. Top Ten teams? Of course it will. You can't just ignore facts that don't fit your narrative. That's what the liberal media do.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:28 pm

RobertM320 wrote:It didn't help with NY6 Bowl, but that's short term.

And you can't say that Navy beating #6 Houston is the same as Navy beating Tulane, or Houston beating Cincinnati. Houston was a Top Ten team, just like Clemson, Louisville, Alabama or Michigan, and Navy beat them. How can you not give credit for that? Isn't that exactly what SEC/ACC/B1G use all the time? Clemson beat Louisville, Clemson beat Florida State, etc. Do they not count because they were ACC teams? When the TV networks sit down to negotiate with Aresco, you don't think that win by Navy will be counted in the number of wins vs. Top Ten teams? Of course it will. You can't just ignore facts that don't fit your narrative. That's what the liberal media do.
It's good for Navy but really does nothing for the league, arguably it hurts more than helps the conference. It's just a goofy point to make. Just as comparing an ESPN game to FS1.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jour ... mbers.aspx

"Using a standard “average viewership per game” metric, this year’s Big East games on Fox and FS1 rate lower than mid-major conferences such as the Missouri Valley, Horizon and American Athletic."

I guess the BE isn't as good as the MVC or Horizon.....oh wait they were the #3 conference in the country and won the national championship.

BTW, being ranked top 10 after 4 games does not mean you are a top ten team.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:23 pm

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Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:54 pm

mbawavefan12 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:It didn't help with NY6 Bowl, but that's short term.

And you can't say that Navy beating #6 Houston is the same as Navy beating Tulane, or Houston beating Cincinnati. Houston was a Top Ten team, just like Clemson, Louisville, Alabama or Michigan, and Navy beat them. How can you not give credit for that? Isn't that exactly what SEC/ACC/B1G use all the time? Clemson beat Louisville, Clemson beat Florida State, etc. Do they not count because they were ACC teams? When the TV networks sit down to negotiate with Aresco, you don't think that win by Navy will be counted in the number of wins vs. Top Ten teams? Of course it will. You can't just ignore facts that don't fit your narrative. That's what the liberal media do.
It's good for Navy but really does nothing for the league, arguably it hurts more than helps the conference. It's just a goofy point to make. Just as comparing an ESPN game to FS1.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jour ... mbers.aspx

"Using a standard “average viewership per game” metric, this year’s Big East games on Fox and FS1 rate lower than mid-major conferences such as the Missouri Valley, Horizon and American Athletic."

I guess the BE isn't as good as the MVC or Horizon.....oh wait they were the #3 conference in the country and won the national championship.

BTW, being ranked top 10 after 4 games does not mean you are a top ten team.
You suggest the point is "arguable" but also "goofy to make". It can't be both.

Also, no one here has used "average viewership per game" as a metric. On the other hand, comparing a single game in a single time slot against a competing single game is a very different thing. To conflate the 2 arguments would be "goofy" to use your term.

Finally, a team that is ranked in the top 10 at the time of the game means you are ranked in the top 10. I don't really know what the problem with all these facts are.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:56 pm

tpstulane wrote:P6 talk from commissioner Aresco.
http://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/ ... 963505.php
Exactly right. Thankfully Aresco is in charge, and not these poor souls suffering from Dickson Disease who insist on redefining facts in a light that makes Tulane and the AAC come off worse than facts dictate.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:01 pm

jonathanjoseph wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:It didn't help with NY6 Bowl, but that's short term.

And you can't say that Navy beating #6 Houston is the same as Navy beating Tulane, or Houston beating Cincinnati. Houston was a Top Ten team, just like Clemson, Louisville, Alabama or Michigan, and Navy beat them. How can you not give credit for that? Isn't that exactly what SEC/ACC/B1G use all the time? Clemson beat Louisville, Clemson beat Florida State, etc. Do they not count because they were ACC teams? When the TV networks sit down to negotiate with Aresco, you don't think that win by Navy will be counted in the number of wins vs. Top Ten teams? Of course it will. You can't just ignore facts that don't fit your narrative. That's what the liberal media do.
It's good for Navy but really does nothing for the league, arguably it hurts more than helps the conference. It's just a goofy point to make. Just as comparing an ESPN game to FS1.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jour ... mbers.aspx

"Using a standard “average viewership per game” metric, this year’s Big East games on Fox and FS1 rate lower than mid-major conferences such as the Missouri Valley, Horizon and American Athletic."

I guess the BE isn't as good as the MVC or Horizon.....oh wait they were the #3 conference in the country and won the national championship.

BTW, being ranked top 10 after 4 games does not mean you are a top ten team.
You suggest the point is "arguable" but also "goofy to make". It can't be both.

Also, no one here has used "average viewership per game" as a metric. On the other hand, comparing a single game in a single time slot against a competing single game is a very different thing. To conflate the 2 arguments would be "goofy" to use your term.

Finally, a team that is ranked in the top 10 at the time of the game means you are ranked in the top 10. I don't really know what the problem with all these facts are.
The ACC doesn't brag about Clemson beating Louiseville, only Clemson does.

Comparing anything on ESPN to FS1 is unfair.
The BE losing out to the Horizen league, even on an average basis, is telling. Top of my head, i cannot name many Horizen league trams. FS1 is a desert. Its really a simple concept that apparantly only u don't want to accept. The AAC is growing and the clear top of the G5's and the one thing Aresco has done well (other than radio interviews) is getting the league on the premier TV platform. Tulane is lucky to b in this league.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:22 pm

In regards to the Big 12 expanding, I think this issue will be " Tabled " for further discussions by the Gawds of the Big 12, and will be discussed at some "winter meetings" in Florida or Port Aransas....at which time the TV ratings will be reviewed and they will sit around a camp fire at the beach singing "Kumbaya"
Last edited by golfnut69 on Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:53 pm

mbawavefan12 wrote: The ACC doesn't brag about Clemson beating Louiseville, only Clemson does.

Comparing anything on ESPN to FS1 is unfair.
The BE losing out to the Horizen league, even on an average basis, is telling. Top of my head, i cannot name many Horizen league trams. FS1 is a desert. Its really a simple concept that apparantly only u don't want to accept. The AAC is growing and the clear top of the G5's and the one thing Aresco has done well (other than radio interviews) is getting the league on the premier TV platform. Tulane is lucky to b in this league.
You totally missed my point. If someone were to ask the ACC how many wins they've had against Top Ten Ranked teams, they would definitely count Clemson beating Louisville as one. All I'm saying is the AAC gets to count Navy beating Houston as well. You can't discount one without discounting the other. Of course, AT THIS POINT, no one is suggesting that the AAC is equal to any of the P5 conferences, but we ARE GETTING THERE.
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