Football Recruiting 2017

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winwave
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RobertM320 wrote:
DrBox wrote:On Saturday, 247 downgraded several of our recruits. We went from 7 or 8 3 stars to 3 or 4.
They also actually gave Briggs a rating, where before he had none.

Toles is actually up slightly.

Also, as has been mentioned previously, how much difference is there really between a 2 and 3 star?

Joey Claybrook is a 3 star, with a grade of .7991
KJ Vault is a 2 star, with a grade of .7956

Do you honestly think there's a noticeable difference talent wise between these two players?
The results over years and years shows there is definitely a difference. You can always find one example but that doesn't throw out the fact that there is a difference. It's like when people complain about us always recruiting under the radar types and someone pipes in with "well Forte was a two star" as if that disproves it all.


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winwave wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:
DrBox wrote:On Saturday, 247 downgraded several of our recruits. We went from 7 or 8 3 stars to 3 or 4.
They also actually gave Briggs a rating, where before he had none.

Toles is actually up slightly.

Also, as has been mentioned previously, how much difference is there really between a 2 and 3 star?

Joey Claybrook is a 3 star, with a grade of .7991
KJ Vault is a 2 star, with a grade of .7956

Do you honestly think there's a noticeable difference talent wise between these two players?
The results over years and years shows there is definitely a difference. You can always find one example but that doesn't throw out the fact that there is a difference. It's like when people complain about us always recruiting under the radar types and someone pipes in with "well Forte was a two star" as if that disproves it all.
This x100. Houston's recruiting class may only be ~20 spots higher than Tulane's right now, but there is a huge difference between a class and roster that is primarily composed of consensus 2* players (Tulane) and than one primarily composed of consensus 3* players (Houston).

As a poster mentioned earlier, the star ratings are potential + performance + high school competition + physical measurements, so, while a higher rating doesn't mean that a player will certainly perform better than a lower rated player in college, it does mean that, historically, there is a greater chance that the 3* player will have a major impact than a 2* player.
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RobertM320
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winwave wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:
DrBox wrote:On Saturday, 247 downgraded several of our recruits. We went from 7 or 8 3 stars to 3 or 4.
They also actually gave Briggs a rating, where before he had none.

Toles is actually up slightly.

Also, as has been mentioned previously, how much difference is there really between a 2 and 3 star?

Joey Claybrook is a 3 star, with a grade of .7991
KJ Vault is a 2 star, with a grade of .7956

Do you honestly think there's a noticeable difference talent wise between these two players?
The results over years and years shows there is definitely a difference. You can always find one example but that doesn't throw out the fact that there is a difference. It's like when people complain about us always recruiting under the radar types and someone pipes in with "well Forte was a two star" as if that disproves it all.
I wasn't responding in general, I was responding specifically to these two players. So if a player gets downgraded from .7991 to .7956, and it happens to cross the threshold between 3 and 4 star, is there really a difference between those two players, where all of a sudden Claybrook is a much better player than Vault? If a player was at .8061 and got downgraded to .8026, its the same reduction but he's technically still a 3 star.

My point being, yes, there's a difference between a 3 star at .8677 and a 2 star at .7726, but there's not when you're talking .7991 to .7956. "Three star" covers such a wide range of players. Somehow its better if a player just squeaks into the 3 star range instead of being a two star? If you've got 5 marginal three stars in your class, are they really any better than the 5 you have that are just under three star? Not really. If you look at the 3 stars we have, most are on the lower end anyway, where they're not much different than two stars. A legit 3 star should be in that .8400 and up range.
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I assume you are talking about 247 which accounts for the recent downgrading. You did just make a comparison of two players but being placed in this thread you have to admit it made it look like you were trying to dispute the whole system based on that comparison. The bottom line is our recruiting for a long period has consisted of mostly two stars and it hasn't worked out for us. The staff has it's work cut out for it.
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Agreed, but there's really not much difference between the two stars we've gotten in the past and a guy with a .7991 that barely crosses the threshold to be a 3 star. We need to start getting more players in the mid 80's. If most of our three stars were .8400 to .8800, we'd be a lot better off than just getting ones in the .7991 to .8200 range. Roach and McClain are the only two players we have over .8168.
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I hope you guys that are high on this recruiting class are saying "i told you so" a year from now. I just don't see it. A lot of mediocre players that won't cut it in this league.

Also, is Fritz even trying to recruit LA?
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msdos wrote:I hope you guys that are high on this recruiting class are saying "i told you so" a year from now. I just don't see it. A lot of mediocre players that won't cut it in this league.

Also, is Fritz even trying to recruit LA?

You don't actually read the threads before you comment, do you? He's not going to be successful landing kids from LA until we start winning. For one, a lot of them can't make the grades here, and Fritz isn't going to waste his time on that. How many are left from CJ's 2015 class? One? Second, one of the big selling points we have over other places is NOLA. Well, its kind of hard to sell that to a kid from Louisiana, especially the NOLA area. I'd rather he get the players he needs, wherever they come from. I'd like to see LA kids, but I'd like to see winning more.
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Prouet is going to be a preferred walk-on as per Guerry Smith.
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RobertM320 wrote:
msdos wrote:I hope you guys that are high on this recruiting class are saying "i told you so" a year from now. I just don't see it. A lot of mediocre players that won't cut it in this league.

Also, is Fritz even trying to recruit LA?

You don't actually read the threads before you comment, do you? He's not going to be successful landing kids from LA until we start winning. For one, a lot of them can't make the grades here, and Fritz isn't going to waste his time on that. How many are left from CJ's 2015 class? One? Second, one of the big selling points we have over other places is NOLA. Well, its kind of hard to sell that to a kid from Louisiana, especially the NOLA area. I'd rather he get the players he needs, wherever they come from. I'd like to see LA kids, but I'd like to see winning more.
To be fair, it's not like Fritz hired many (if any?) local Louisiana coaches when he took over at Tulane, so a big part of Tulane's status as a non-factor in Louisiana does still fall at his feet. A great example of a program successfully doing that is Baylor this cycle - yes, Baylor is "Baylor", but Rhule - a coach with no real ties to TX - hired some high profile TX coaches/administrators to join his staff and it's paying some pretty big dividends. Fritz - a coach that had no real ties to LA - doesn't appear to have hired many (if any) Louisiana coaches into his staff during his move from Georgia Southern to Tulane and it shows in recruiting.
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High School players in Texas are a completely different breed than ones from Louisiana. Texas ranks #21 in education, Louisiana comes in dead last at #51. In general, a kid from Texas is more likely to be able to handle the academic curriculum of a Baylor or Tulane than a kid from Louisiana. So you clearly can't make the focus on Louisiana recruiting, or we'll have repeats of CJ's 2015 class. And the kids that are smart enough but also talented enough mostly have LSU or another P5 school as their top priority. I think its as simple as that.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-t ... ools/5335/
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Jamaal Fobbs is from NOLA and went to St.Aug. Nagle is from Louisiana and his father is a well known HS coach .As has been pointed out we have other issues recruiting here. The rep is horrible and most coaches only give lip service to Tulane so they can find a landing spot for their lesser players. Also it doesn't matter where kids come from. When we have had success in football, basketball or baseball it usually involved a lot of out of state players.
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winwave wrote:Jamal Fobbs is from NOLA and went to St.Aug. Nagle is from Louisiana and his father is a well known HS coach .
That's certainly true, but there is a difference between hiring someone directly from a position in the state high school system and hiring someone who has older contacts with the state. I'm suggesting that Tulane could have benefited from hiring someone in the former group and not the latter group, which is where Jamal Fobbs resides since he has been at Liberty University in Virginia for 4 years and hasn't been employed in Louisiana in any capacity in some time.

http://tulanegreenwave.com/staff.aspx?staff=197
RobertM320 wrote:High School players in Texas are a completely different breed than ones from Louisiana. Texas ranks #21 in education, Louisiana comes in dead last at #51. In general, a kid from Texas is more likely to be able to handle the academic curriculum of a Baylor or Tulane than a kid from Louisiana. So you clearly can't make the focus on Louisiana recruiting, or we'll have repeats of CJ's 2015 class. And the kids that are smart enough but also talented enough mostly have LSU or another P5 school as their top priority. I think its as simple as that.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-t ... ools/5335/
If LSU and other programs can find a way to help athletes that can barely read graduate -and- be major impact on the field, why can't Tulane? Tulane can't pretend that it's serious about being competitive on the field and then hide behind its academics when its not. If changes need to be made, changes need to be made.
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Sorry, I disagree. I don't want my Tulane degree devalued by having people who can barely read get a Tulane degree. LSU and other programs have P5 resources to start with, and a much lower standard of expectations academically. We either find a way to win while maintaining our quality education, or we don't win. But we don't compromise the education. If Stanford, Northwestern and others can do it, so can we. Its just going to be harder because we're not a P5.
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I think that Stanford and Northwestern have degree programs that are "sports friendly." I don't know this for sure so I would like to see a study of this. These schools seem to keep their athlete study programs under wraps and that's OK. But we have been hearing this for years that if they can do it why can't we? I would like a definitive answer but I am not sure that the data is public information.
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msdos wrote:I hope you guys that are high on this recruiting class are saying "i told you so" a year from now. I just don't see it. A lot of mediocre players that won't cut it in this league.

Also, is Fritz even trying to recruit LA?
Did you miss the fact that our last commit was an offensive tackle from Jesuit?
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And the one before that was from St. Aug?
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Aberzombie1892 wrote:
winwave wrote:Jamal Fobbs is from NOLA and went to St.Aug. Nagle is from Louisiana and his father is a well known HS coach .
That's certainly true, but there is a difference between hiring someone directly from a position in the state high school system and hiring someone who has older contacts with the state. I'm suggesting that Tulane could have benefited from hiring someone in the former group and not the latter group, which is where Jamal Fobbs resides since he has been at Liberty University in Virginia for 4 years and hasn't been employed in Louisiana in any capacity in some time.

http://tulanegreenwave.com/staff.aspx?staff=197
RobertM320 wrote:High School players in Texas are a completely different breed than ones from Louisiana. Texas ranks #21 in education, Louisiana comes in dead last at #51. In general, a kid from Texas is more likely to be able to handle the academic curriculum of a Baylor or Tulane than a kid from Louisiana. So you clearly can't make the focus on Louisiana recruiting, or we'll have repeats of CJ's 2015 class. And the kids that are smart enough but also talented enough mostly have LSU or another P5 school as their top priority. I think its as simple as that.

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-t ... ools/5335/
If LSU and other programs can find a way to help athletes that can barely read graduate -and- be major impact on the field, why can't Tulane? Tulane can't pretend that it's serious about being competitive on the field and then hide behind its academics when its not. If changes need to be made, changes need to be made.
Locals are locals. You also have to have people on the staff that can actually coach. How did it work out w/CJ? The fact is we could have all local former HS coaches on the staff and we would still only be getting the low level locals. It is the stupidest argument some Tulane fans like to put out there. Tulane is a national university and needs to recruit accordingly. Tulane has much bigger problems than local recruiting.
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RobertM320 wrote:Sorry, I disagree. I don't want my Tulane degree devalued by having people who can barely read get a Tulane degree. LSU and other programs have P5 resources to start with, and a much lower standard of expectations academically. We either find a way to win while maintaining our quality education, or we don't win. But we don't compromise the education. If Stanford, Northwestern and others can do it, so can we. Its just going to be harder because we're not a P5.
Tulane has put athlete friendly majors in when CJ took the job.
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winwave wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:Sorry, I disagree. I don't want my Tulane degree devalued by having people who can barely read get a Tulane degree. LSU and other programs have P5 resources to start with, and a much lower standard of expectations academically. We either find a way to win while maintaining our quality education, or we don't win. But we don't compromise the education. If Stanford, Northwestern and others can do it, so can we. Its just going to be harder because we're not a P5.
Tulane has put athlete friendly majors in when CJ took the job.
Athlete friendly doesn't mean basketweaving. Yes, we've improved what we offer that's athlete friendly. But if you've got kids that really have no interest in going to school and learning, then it means nothing. And be truthful, you know a lot of these kids aren't interested in the education. Heck, do you think Ben Simmons ever stepped foot in a classroom at LSU? By the time he would have been ineligible, his one season was done.
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RobertM320 wrote:
winwave wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:Sorry, I disagree. I don't want my Tulane degree devalued by having people who can barely read get a Tulane degree. LSU and other programs have P5 resources to start with, and a much lower standard of expectations academically. We either find a way to win while maintaining our quality education, or we don't win. But we don't compromise the education. If Stanford, Northwestern and others can do it, so can we. Its just going to be harder because we're not a P5.
Tulane has put athlete friendly majors in when CJ took the job.
Athlete friendly doesn't mean basketweaving. Yes, we've improved what we offer that's athlete friendly. But if you've got kids that really have no interest in going to school and learning, then it means nothing. And be truthful, you know a lot of these kids aren't interested in the education. Heck, do you think Ben Simmons ever stepped foot in a classroom at LSU? By the time he would have been ineligible, his one season was done.
I was just pointing out that Tulane is making efforts to be able to get in better athletes.No one is saying to take in illeterates.
Your going to an extreme. What devalues a degree is to have an embarrassing athletic program.
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I agree with you, winwave.

I was referring to Aberzombie's comment
If LSU and other programs can find a way to help athletes that can barely read graduate -and- be major impact on the field, why can't Tulane?
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RobertM320 wrote:I agree with you, winwave.

I was referring to Aberzombie's comment
If LSU and other programs can find a way to help athletes that can barely read graduate -and- be major impact on the field, why can't Tulane?
Got you. Comments like that are baseless and a part of the problem. It's an attempt to deflect from the real problems that Tulane athletics has. Their players give just as good of interviews as ours. Shaq , Booger and Ryan Clark all appear on national shows. The problem at Tulane is no longer academic related. It's a fall back excuse. The losing and lack of facilities are the problems.
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A poor athletic program reflects poorly on the administration and the athletic department. It does not reflect poorly on the academic standing. But I would acknowledge losing pulls economic resources from academics to subsidize revenue loses. An administration complacent with losing athletics will only throw more money into the toilet.
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