2017 commit - OLB K. J. Vault, Hoover HS, Birmingham

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RobertM320
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Will Guillory
‏@WillGuillory Will Guillory Retweeted KJ Vault
Hoover High School (AL) linebacker K.J. Vault commits to Tulane #RollWaveWill Guillory added,
KJ Vault @KJVault18
Extremely blessed to be committed to Tulane University! #RollWave #GreenTeam17
4:45 PM - 31 Jul 2016


For the record: 6' 1", 200 lbs, no stars on any rating service.


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I have a lot of faith in Fritz but this is getting to quite worrisome.
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He's currently not rated by the Big 4 and we beat out only FCS programs for him.

http://www.scout.com/player/208291-k-j-vault/recruiting
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jonathanjoseph wrote:I have a lot of faith in Fritz but this is getting to quite worrisome.
+1. I'm sure there are some diamonds in the rough but overall this is very concerning.
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Those of us who take the time to participate in the Tulane forums can see the transformation that has taken place in our Athletics Dept since last December. The football prospects and their families have not and will not begin to understand what is taking place until we start producing wins and hard fought games with crisp execution this Fall. I sincerely hope that this staff feels strongly about the verbal commits to date because I believe that by next November the perception of Tulane Football will be much improved in the minds of prospects and their parents.
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wave97 wrote:Those of us who take the time to participate in the Tulane forums can see the transformation that has taken place in our Athletics Dept since last December. The football prospects and their families have not and will not begin to understand what is taking place until we start producing wins and hard fought games with crisp execution this Fall. I sincerely hope that this staff feels strongly about the verbal commits to date because I believe that by next November the perception of Tulane Football will be much improved in the minds of prospects and their parents.
Also keep in mind, we've got a whole season to play before signing day next Feb. If we have a decent season and end up getting a Big 12 invite as well, you may not see most of these guys by February.
"That mantra is the only consistent thing that never needs to ever change for the rest of this program’s existence because that is all that matters & as long as that keeps occurring, everything will handle itself" -- Nick Anderson
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RobertM320 wrote:
wave97 wrote:Those of us who take the time to participate in the Tulane forums can see the transformation that has taken place in our Athletics Dept since last December. The football prospects and their families have not and will not begin to understand what is taking place until we start producing wins and hard fought games with crisp execution this Fall. I sincerely hope that this staff feels strongly about the verbal commits to date because I believe that by next November the perception of Tulane Football will be much improved in the minds of prospects and their parents.
Also keep in mind, we've got a whole season to play before signing day next Feb. If we have a decent season and end up getting a Big 12 invite as well, you may not see most of these guys by February.
To withdraw an offer on a verbal commit is a slippery slope that can have an adverse effect on recruiting. Are you a program of your word?
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I am seeing a pattern here and it to me is the only explanation. Recruits are jumping on their best early offer and schools are allowing it. Should their senior year be a good one, they will open up their recruitment in the hopes of bettering the offer. The school can do the same if their senior year development is disappointing. These early commitments are accepting our best offer to them now to have us as a fallback if nothing better comes along.
It doesn't matter an iota to me because should we get a Big XXII invitation, the calibre of recruit we will attract interest from will sky rocket and the whole class can be reset. Should we not be invited, personally my interest in Tulane athletics within a watered down AAC will be gone, so I won't care who they sign.
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Jaxwave wrote:I am seeing a pattern here and it to me is the only explanation. Recruits are jumping on their best early offer and schools are allowing it. Should their senior year be a good one, they will open up their recruitment in the hopes of bettering the offer. The school can do the same if their senior year development is disappointing. These early commitments are accepting our best offer to them now to have us as a fallback if nothing better comes along.
It doesn't matter an iota to me because should we get a Big XXII invitation, the calibre of recruit we will attract interest from will sky rocket and the whole class can be reset. Should we not be invited, personally my interest in Tulane athletics within a watered down AAC will be gone, so I won't care who they sign.
I guess that we're the early best offer for Conference USA, Sun Belt & SWAC. The NCAA needs to establish relegation with the Mountain West & AAC as the point of departure for rising programs and landing point for perennial failing P5 programs.
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wave97 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:
wave97 wrote:Those of us who take the time to participate in the Tulane forums can see the transformation that has taken place in our Athletics Dept since last December. The football prospects and their families have not and will not begin to understand what is taking place until we start producing wins and hard fought games with crisp execution this Fall. I sincerely hope that this staff feels strongly about the verbal commits to date because I believe that by next November the perception of Tulane Football will be much improved in the minds of prospects and their parents.
Also keep in mind, we've got a whole season to play before signing day next Feb. If we have a decent season and end up getting a Big 12 invite as well, you may not see most of these guys by February.
To withdraw an offer on a verbal commit is a slippery slope that can have an adverse effect on recruiting. Are you a program of your word?
We're a program of our word, but the kids don't have to be. Typical of today's society. Yet, if we don't offer anyone, we may miss out on any good players. Thus once again, the need for an early signing period, and a dead period. Early signing in August, after which no player can officially commit until December 15th, or Jan 1. This would allow protect the schools as well as the kids. And they wouldn't have to focus on recruiting during their season.
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wave97 wrote:
Jaxwave wrote:I am seeing a pattern here and it to me is the only explanation. Recruits are jumping on their best early offer and schools are allowing it. Should their senior year be a good one, they will open up their recruitment in the hopes of bettering the offer. The school can do the same if their senior year development is disappointing. These early commitments are accepting our best offer to them now to have us as a fallback if nothing better comes along.
It doesn't matter an iota to me because should we get a Big XXII invitation, the calibre of recruit we will attract interest from will sky rocket and the whole class can be reset. Should we not be invited, personally my interest in Tulane athletics within a watered down AAC will be gone, so I won't care who they sign.
I guess that we're the early best offer for Conference USA, Sun Belt & SWAC. The NCAA needs to establish relegation with the Mountain West & AAC as the point of departure for rising programs and landing point for perennial failing P5 programs.
But many guys are turning us down for Sunbelt and CUSA programs, so it's hard to say that we are there best offer if they don't think so.
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Aberzombie1892 wrote:
wave97 wrote:
Jaxwave wrote:I am seeing a pattern here and it to me is the only explanation. Recruits are jumping on their best early offer and schools are allowing it. Should their senior year be a good one, they will open up their recruitment in the hopes of bettering the offer. The school can do the same if their senior year development is disappointing. These early commitments are accepting our best offer to them now to have us as a fallback if nothing better comes along.
It doesn't matter an iota to me because should we get a Big XXII invitation, the calibre of recruit we will attract interest from will sky rocket and the whole class can be reset. Should we not be invited, personally my interest in Tulane athletics within a watered down AAC will be gone, so I won't care who they sign.
I guess that we're the early best offer for Conference USA, Sun Belt & SWAC. The NCAA needs to establish relegation with the Mountain West & AAC as the point of departure for rising programs and landing point for perennial failing P5 programs.
But many guys are turning us down for Sunbelt and CUSA programs, so it's hard to say that we are there best offer if they don't think so.
+1. I would not be as concerned if we were at least beating out Sun Belt schools. It's early and a lot of guys' recruiting takes off their Sr year but most of the commits only have FCS offers. We really need to start the season off strong and hope kids take notice.
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Aberzombie1892 wrote:
wave97 wrote:
Jaxwave wrote:I am seeing a pattern here and it to me is the only explanation. Recruits are jumping on their best early offer and schools are allowing it. Should their senior year be a good one, they will open up their recruitment in the hopes of bettering the offer. The school can do the same if their senior year development is disappointing. These early commitments are accepting our best offer to them now to have us as a fallback if nothing better comes along.
It doesn't matter an iota to me because should we get a Big XXII invitation, the calibre of recruit we will attract interest from will sky rocket and the whole class can be reset. Should we not be invited, personally my interest in Tulane athletics within a watered down AAC will be gone, so I won't care who they sign.
I guess that we're the early best offer for Conference USA, Sun Belt & SWAC. The NCAA needs to establish relegation with the Mountain West & AAC as the point of departure for rising programs and landing point for perennial failing P5 programs.
But many guys are turning us down for Sunbelt and CUSA programs, so it's hard to say that we are there best offer if they don't think so.
Please provide a list of the names and schools these players chose over us. The QB that went to ULL had his offer pulled according to one of our posters after we got another QB commit. Plus he was listed at 5'10'',170 or so. So imagine how small he actually is. Doubt he would be able to take the pounding at this level.
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K J Vault had 4 offers before ours. Two were Tennessee Tech and Dixie College. Don't remember the other two but they were both FCS as well. Closest on his list showing interest was UAB and USA and neither had offered him yet.
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winwave wrote:Please provide a list of the names and schools these players chose over us. The QB that went to ULL had his offer pulled according to one of our posters after we got another QB commit. Plus he was listed at 5'10'',170 or so. So imagine how small he actually is. Doubt he would be able to take the pounding at this level.
Tulane 247 Offers list is a good place to start.

http://tulane.247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/Offers

EDIT: As a snippet from another thread: ULL (multiple), FAU (multiple), Kansas (multiple), Vanderbilt (multiple), ULM (multiple), Texas State, Georgia State, Appalachian State (multiple), and (fill in the blank school). If we had half of the 3* players that signed with all of these programs over us, we would solidly in the middle of the pack (or better) of the AAC.

Honestly, it doesn't matter if the ULL QB had his offer pulled by Tulane and it doesn't matter if he was relatively small - we wanted him, didn't get him, and signed a lower rated player in his place. That is where we are right now.

If we compare Junior stats of the ULL QB to our QB:

ULL 3* QB Levi Lewis
63.4% accuracy for 2,588 yards for 22 TDs and 4 Ints
Rushed for 978 yards and 9 TDs

Tulane 2* QB Kaylan Wiggins
47.6% for 777 yards for 5 TDs and 4 Ints
Rushed for 728 yards and 10 TDs

From those stats alone anyone can tell the difference between the two QBs - one is easily a Division 1A player while the other one is borderline and probably shouldn't even have an offer from a AAC program (not including Navy since it recruits differently).
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Looking at the offers list, its not like we're not putting offers out there. Is there a limit to how many players you can offer?
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I'm not sure, but I don't think so. 270 offers isn't that bad, though.

As a sample:
Houston has 132 offers.
Memphis has 198.
UCF has 269.
USF has 192.
Cincinnati has 332.
ECU has 175.
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I guess Houston can be more selective than we can.
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Aberzombie1892 wrote:
winwave wrote:Please provide a list of the names and schools these players chose over us. The QB that went to ULL had his offer pulled according to one of our posters after we got another QB commit. Plus he was listed at 5'10'',170 or so. So imagine how small he actually is. Doubt he would be able to take the pounding at this level.
Tulane 247 Offers list is a good place to start.

http://tulane.247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/Offers

EDIT: As a snippet from another thread: ULL (multiple), FAU (multiple), Kansas (multiple), Vanderbilt (multiple), ULM (multiple), Texas State, Georgia State, Appalachian State (multiple), and (fill in the blank school). If we had half of the 3* players that signed with all of these programs over us, we would solidly in the middle of the pack (or better) of the AAC.

Honestly, it doesn't matter if the ULL QB had his offer pulled by Tulane and it doesn't matter if he was relatively small - we wanted him, didn't get him, and signed a lower rated player in his place. That is where we are right now.

If we compare Junior stats of the ULL QB to our QB:

ULL 3* QB Levi Lewis
63.4% accuracy for 2,588 yards for 22 TDs and 4 Ints
Rushed for 978 yards and 9 TDs

Tulane 2* QB Kaylan Wiggins
47.6% for 777 yards for 5 TDs and 4 Ints
Rushed for 728 yards and 10 TDs

From those stats alone anyone can tell the difference between the two QBs - one is easily a Division 1A player while the other one is borderline and probably shouldn't even have an offer from a AAC program (not including Navy since it recruits differently).
A couple of the schools you cite aren't Sunbelt or CUSA. The list also shows us losing out to Alabama, LSU, ND, Tennessee, Texas, A&M, USC and several more like those. As for the QB we pulled the offer so of course we didn't get him. On the face of it it doesn't look good. It will be interesting to see what happens after everybody plays their senior seasons. As I have said before hopefully at that point we will be sweating out losing our commits to the big boys. After signing day we can look back at this list in 4 years and see how it all played out.
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winwave wrote:A couple of the schools you cite aren't Sunbelt or CUSA. The list also shows us losing out to Alabama, LSU, ND, Tennessee, Texas, A&M, USC and several more like those. As for the QB we pulled the offer so of course we didn't get him. On the face of it it doesn't look good. It will be interesting to see what happens after everybody plays their senior seasons. As I have said before hopefully at that point we will be sweating out losing our commits to the big boys. After signing day we can look back at this list in 4 years and see how it all played out.
Well, of course we will lose to big time P5s as that is to be expected, but we shouldn't be losing so many recruiting battles to CUSA/Sunbelt programs and we shouldn't be reaching for some of these commits the way we are now, even with a new coach.
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wave97 wrote: I guess that we're the early best offer for Conference USA, Sun Belt & SWAC. The NCAA needs to establish relegation with the Mountain West & AAC as the point of departure for rising programs and landing point for perennial failing P5 programs.
This is not going to happen. You can post it on a thousand Internet bulletin boards, but it's not even being considered, and for good reason.
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Aberzombie1892 wrote:
winwave wrote:Please provide a list of the names and schools these players chose over us. The QB that went to ULL had his offer pulled according to one of our posters after we got another QB commit. Plus he was listed at 5'10'',170 or so. So imagine how small he actually is. Doubt he would be able to take the pounding at this level.
Tulane 247 Offers list is a good place to start.

http://tulane.247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/Offers

EDIT: As a snippet from another thread: ULL (multiple), FAU (multiple), Kansas (multiple), Vanderbilt (multiple), ULM (multiple), Texas State, Georgia State, Appalachian State (multiple), and (fill in the blank school). If we had half of the 3* players that signed with all of these programs over us, we would solidly in the middle of the pack (or better) of the AAC.

Honestly, it doesn't matter if the ULL QB had his offer pulled by Tulane and it doesn't matter if he was relatively small - we wanted him, didn't get him, and signed a lower rated player in his place. That is where we are right now.

If we compare Junior stats of the ULL QB to our QB:

ULL 3* QB Levi Lewis
63.4% accuracy for 2,588 yards for 22 TDs and 4 Ints
Rushed for 978 yards and 9 TDs

Tulane 2* QB Kaylan Wiggins
47.6% for 777 yards for 5 TDs and 4 Ints
Rushed for 728 yards and 10 TDs

From those stats alone anyone can tell the difference between the two QBs - one is easily a Division 1A player while the other one is borderline and probably shouldn't even have an offer from a AAC program (not including Navy since it recruits differently).

Not sure how high school stats transfer into a player ability to play college football. Size and a skillset has to be considered along with the skill set of the players he is playing against in high school. along with coaching and system he is playing in. It is known in the recruiting world that a two
and three star in Florida is a three and four star in other states. Cuilette was a three star qb who senior stats who completed 127-of-255 passes for 2,128 yards, 25 touchdowns and 10 interceptions while running 121 times for 493 yards and five touchdowns. Bradwell was a two star qb from florida who stats as a senior, accounted for over 2,300 yards of offense and 27 touchdowns...rushed for 1,213 yards on 125 carries (9.7 ypc) and 134.8 yards per game and threw for 1,097 yards and 11 touchdowns. However they both are co starters with Bradwell only being here for a couple months while Glenn has been a couple years and they are neck and neck.
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Lang5 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
winwave wrote:Please provide a list of the names and schools these players chose over us. The QB that went to ULL had his offer pulled according to one of our posters after we got another QB commit. Plus he was listed at 5'10'',170 or so. So imagine how small he actually is. Doubt he would be able to take the pounding at this level.
Tulane 247 Offers list is a good place to start.

http://tulane.247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/Offers

EDIT: As a snippet from another thread: ULL (multiple), FAU (multiple), Kansas (multiple), Vanderbilt (multiple), ULM (multiple), Texas State, Georgia State, Appalachian State (multiple), and (fill in the blank school). If we had half of the 3* players that signed with all of these programs over us, we would solidly in the middle of the pack (or better) of the AAC.

Honestly, it doesn't matter if the ULL QB had his offer pulled by Tulane and it doesn't matter if he was relatively small - we wanted him, didn't get him, and signed a lower rated player in his place. That is where we are right now.

If we compare Junior stats of the ULL QB to our QB:

ULL 3* QB Levi Lewis
63.4% accuracy for 2,588 yards for 22 TDs and 4 Ints
Rushed for 978 yards and 9 TDs

Tulane 2* QB Kaylan Wiggins
47.6% for 777 yards for 5 TDs and 4 Ints
Rushed for 728 yards and 10 TDs

From those stats alone anyone can tell the difference between the two QBs - one is easily a Division 1A player while the other one is borderline and probably shouldn't even have an offer from a AAC program (not including Navy since it recruits differently).

Not sure how high school stats transfer into a player ability to play college football. Size and a skillset has to be considered along with the skill set of the players he is playing against in high school. along with coaching and system he is playing in. It is known in the recruiting world that a two
and three star in Florida is a three and four star in other states. Cuilette was a three star qb who senior stats who completed 127-of-255 passes for 2,128 yards, 25 touchdowns and 10 interceptions while running 121 times for 493 yards and five touchdowns. Bradwell was a two star qb from florida who stats as a senior, accounted for over 2,300 yards of offense and 27 touchdowns...rushed for 1,213 yards on 125 carries (9.7 ypc) and 134.8 yards per game and threw for 1,097 yards and 11 touchdowns. However they both are co starters with Bradwell only being here for a couple months while Glenn has been a couple years and they are neck and neck.
Good point.
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Aberzombie1892 wrote:
winwave wrote:A couple of the schools you cite aren't Sunbelt or CUSA. The list also shows us losing out to Alabama, LSU, ND, Tennessee, Texas, A&M, USC and several more like those. As for the QB we pulled the offer so of course we didn't get him. On the face of it it doesn't look good. It will be interesting to see what happens after everybody plays their senior seasons. As I have said before hopefully at that point we will be sweating out losing our commits to the big boys. After signing day we can look back at this list in 4 years and see how it all played out.
Well, of course we will lose to big time P5s as that is to be expected, but we shouldn't be losing so many recruiting battles to CUSA/Sunbelt programs and we shouldn't be reaching for some of these commits the way we are now, even with a new coach.
As I have said before in the past I haven't trusted our coaches when others were saying that they thought those coaches were good talent evaluators. I think it's different w/WF. He has a long history of success at each level he has moved up to. I think he has the skins on the wall to earn some trust. It's very early in the process so I would very much advise against jumping off the ledge just yet. :mrgreen:
BAYWAVE&Sophandros are SPINELESS COWARDS
YOU NEED LEVERAGE TO BE PROACTIVE!
Small time facilities for small time programs
6-4-23:Now all of the mistakes Tulane has made finally catches up with them as they descend to CUSAAC.
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i wish most of you would quit trying to make excuses and trying to make scenarios where these recruits are better then what they are. The bottom line is that so far Fritz first recruiting class is pathetic. Their is no way we are going to get Big XII invite with these recruits.
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