Comparing Recruiting Among Tulane/UCF/ECU/Memphis (new AAC coaches)

[lurker123]

Lurker, just like any other program, if we need a player to fill a particular position, we offer the best players that we could reasonably get that play that position, but, if we can't get them, we slowly work our way down the list with offers until someone commits. To phrase it differently, if we need a dual threat QB, we are going to keep offering dual threat QBs until one commits because we -need- a dual threat QB even if it is not the one of the top X that we want - it's really no different than what happened with Lindsay Scott and his replacement at the beginning of this year. Through that lens, it's difficult to accept that the fact that an offer is given means that the player that received that offer is automatically a desirable choice even if they came to our camp, especially in light of our difficulties in recruiting - losing battles to ULL, FAU (multiple), Kansas (multiple), Vanderbilt (multiple), ULM (multiple), Texas State, Georgia State, Appalachian State (multiple), and (fill in the blank school).

I hear you but WF has specifically said he doesn't make offers to fill rosters. What does Tulane have now: about 81 players on full schollie (and that includes Wadleigh)?
So if he followed your logic fully, we'd have a full complement of 85 players for the upcoming season. WF does draw lines. But obviously as you note that line sure seems lower than either you or I would have guessed last December.

[Aberzombie1892]

Lurker, just like any other program, if we need a player to fill a particular position, we offer the best players that we could reasonably get that play that position, but, if we can't get them, we slowly work our way down the list with offers until someone commits. To phrase it differently, if we need a dual threat QB, we are going to keep offering dual threat QBs until one commits because we -need- a dual threat QB even if it is not the one of the top X that we want - it's really no different than what happened with Lindsay Scott and his replacement at the beginning of this year. Through that lens, it's difficult to accept that the fact that an offer is given means that the player that received that offer is automatically a desirable choice even if they came to our camp, especially in light of our difficulties in recruiting - losing battles to ULL, FAU (multiple), Kansas (multiple), Vanderbilt (multiple), ULM (multiple), Texas State, Georgia State, Appalachian State (multiple), and (fill in the blank school).

I hear you but WF has specifically said he doesn't make offers to fill rosters. What does Tulane have now: about 81 players on full schollie (and that includes Wadleigh)?
So if he followed your logic fully, we'd have a full complement of 85 players for the upcoming season. WF does draw lines. But obviously as you note that line sure seems lower than either you or I would have guessed last December.

Well, yes and no. I agree that I don't think he would add players just to add them, but the primary reason we are low on scholarships is that we lost a notable amount of players both before and after National Signing Day this year (hence lowered expectations), and not all of those losses could not have been foreseen by Fritz. In regard to the signing class, I'm still struggling with the fact that the Fritz hire so far has made no positive impact on recruiting and could, at least in theory, possibly have made it worse.

[lurker123]

Very true. We are in definite trust me territory. I'll go with WF's record and his explanation of his strategy. I also feel very comfortable with his staff.

If they execute then talent will show up. Meanwhile what was phrase last week? We have to see if WF's approach results in players "punching up above their weight class."

In short we're about to find out if coaching matters.

[Jaxwave]

Two factors. Local coaches have been poisoned by previous coaching staff. Big mistake keeping none of them. Two, by definition offensive recruits to WF's style will be lowered ranked as smaller, quicker OL will be in the class and QBs as well as WRs/TEs will not have gaudy HS numbers in the passing game. CBs who want to develop coverage skills might also shy away as they won't see passing as much in practice.
WF must make up for these by not missing on the potential of the recruits he gets as well as loading up on good front 7 guys on D, which we haven't seen so far in last year's class or next one.

[jonathanjoseph]

Two factors. Local coaches have been poisoned by previous coaching staff. Big mistake keeping none of them. Two, by definition offensive recruits to WF's style will be lowered ranked as smaller, quicker OL will be in the class and QBs as well as WRs/TEs will not have gaudy HS numbers in the passing game. CBs who want to develop coverage skills might also shy away as they won't see passing as much in practice.
WF must make up for these by not missing on the potential of the recruits he gets as well as loading up on good front 7 guys on D, which we haven't seen so far in last year's class or next one.

It's fair to ask about the impact of not keeping local coaches on the roster, although he did keep David Johnson originally.

I still do not buy the rest of the argument. Willie Fritz recruited a much higher rated class just last year to GSU in the Sun Belt. The system didn't preclude him from getting good recruits to go there. Now that he's moved up to the AAC, he should be recruiting an equal caliber of player at least, and yet that's not the case.

I do trust that WF knows what he's doing and I have very little doubt that his players will punch above their weight class, as they very clearly did at GSU. But there's little doubt he would prefer higher ranked recruits.

I don't know the answer, but I don't think it's WF. We know that facilities are a problem but that doesn't explain lower recruiting rankings than CJ and Toledo. Yulman is still a potential elephant in the room. I'm open to suggestion.

[lurker123]

Well Cowen/Dickson are gone so it must be the fault of their legacy, namely Yulman.

I guess I missed all the four and five star recruits we had since Katrina when Tulane was playing in the very empty NFL Stadium SuperDome and Yulman wasn't even a thought much less a reality.

I was at those games. Were you?

[jonathanjoseph]

Well Cowen/Dickson are gone so it must be the fault of their legacy, namely Yulman.

I guess I missed all the four and five star recruits we had since Katrina when Tulane was playing in the very empty NFL Stadium SuperDome and Yulman wasn't even a thought much less a reality.

I was at those games. Were you?

Oh good grief with the irrelevant personal attacks.

Recruiting ratings have declined every year for 3 straight years. As I noted, I'm open to ideas on why. Yulman is one idea. The other suggestions so far have problems (style of offense, WF) because they go against what WF did at GSU. And yes, we had a 4 star recruit and a higher rated class in our last year recruiting to the Dome. Bringing up Katrina here is absurd since we're talking about this class being below Bob Toledo, so this is worse than post-Katrina recruiting, not to mention Katrina is the pathetic playbook of Cowen/Dickson. Either contribute something useful or quit with the personal attacks.

[wave97]

Two factors. Local coaches have been poisoned by previous coaching staff. Big mistake keeping none of them. Two, by definition offensive recruits to WF's style will be lowered ranked as smaller, quicker OL will be in the class and QBs as well as WRs/TEs will not have gaudy HS numbers in the passing game. CBs who want to develop coverage skills might also shy away as they won't see passing as much in practice.
WF must make up for these by not missing on the potential of the recruits he gets as well as loading up on good front 7 guys on D, which we haven't seen so far in last year's class or next one.

It's fair to ask about the impact of not keeping local coaches on the roster, although he did keep David Johnson originally.

I still do not buy the rest of the argument. Willie Fritz recruited a much higher rated class just last year to GSU in the Sun Belt. The system didn't preclude him from getting good recruits to go there. Now that he's moved up to the AAC, he should be recruiting an equal caliber of player at least, and yet that's not the case.

I do trust that WF knows what he's doing and I have very little doubt that his players will punch above their weight class, as they very clearly did at GSU. But there's little doubt he would prefer higher ranked recruits.

I don't know the answer, but I don't think it's WF. We know that facilities are a problem but that doesn't explain lower recruiting rankings than CJ and Toledo. Yulman is still a potential elephant in the room. I'm open to suggestion.

Slade Nagle has very deep roots in Louisiana High School Football. I would have been thrilled to see Lionel Washington on this staff. I think it is going to take waaay better execution on the field before we begin to re-establish our former status as the 2nd option in Louisiana. Here's to this year...

[glennc]

Interesting that some are now saying that our new stadium is not helping in recruiting. I said from the beginning that Rick dickson built a high school stadium to go with our high school gym.

[jonathanjoseph]

Two factors. Local coaches have been poisoned by previous coaching staff. Big mistake keeping none of them. Two, by definition offensive recruits to WF's style will be lowered ranked as smaller, quicker OL will be in the class and QBs as well as WRs/TEs will not have gaudy HS numbers in the passing game. CBs who want to develop coverage skills might also shy away as they won't see passing as much in practice.
WF must make up for these by not missing on the potential of the recruits he gets as well as loading up on good front 7 guys on D, which we haven't seen so far in last year's class or next one.

It's fair to ask about the impact of not keeping local coaches on the roster, although he did keep David Johnson originally.

I still do not buy the rest of the argument. Willie Fritz recruited a much higher rated class just last year to GSU in the Sun Belt. The system didn't preclude him from getting good recruits to go there. Now that he's moved up to the AAC, he should be recruiting an equal caliber of player at least, and yet that's not the case.

I do trust that WF knows what he's doing and I have very little doubt that his players will punch above their weight class, as they very clearly did at GSU. But there's little doubt he would prefer higher ranked recruits.

I don't know the answer, but I don't think it's WF. We know that facilities are a problem but that doesn't explain lower recruiting rankings than CJ and Toledo. Yulman is still a potential elephant in the room. I'm open to suggestion.

Slade Nagle has very deep roots in Louisiana High School Football. I would have been thrilled to see Lionel Washington on this staff. I think it is going to take waaay better execution on the field before we begin to re-establish our former status as the 2nd option in Louisiana. Here's to this year...

I forgot about Nagle. That makes it even worse.

I hear you on execution but I still don't buy that to be the case. Those other LA schools are Sun Belt and CUSA and aren't comparable academically or with NOLA. There is no reason we should not be able to land CJ-era level recruits.

Man I hope WF has a serious eye for talent.

[Aberzombie1892]

Time for another update as of 7:22 AM CDT on 8/16:

Memphis - 21 Total Commits - 1 4* - 16 3* - 4 2* - 0 Unrated - #2 in the AAC/#38 Nationally
UCF - 17 Total Commits - 0 4* - 13 3* - 3 2* - 1 Unrated - #3 in the AAC/#51 Nationally
ECU - 15 Total Commits - 0 4* - 10 3* - 3 2* - 2 Unrated - #8 in the AAC/#73 Nationally
Tulane - 14 Total Commits - 0 4* - 2 3* - 6 2* - 6 Unrated - #11 in the AAC/#96 Nationally

Honestly, it's a little disappointing. Given that it's currently unlikely that we will receive a Big 12 invite that would lead to a spike in recruiting, it's becoming more and more unlikely that we will be able to turn this around in a significant way. Some people may say that our recruiting fortunes will change during/after the season, and that thought is based off of on the field success. If Tulane had brought in a good running/passing transfer QB and Fritz would have been able to run/pass roughly 50/50, I would agree with those people. However, because our QBs still struggle with passing, we are likely going to run the ball the vast majority of the time - which is fine and it will win some games - but doing so won't entice dual threat QBs that can really pass or good WRs out of high school to come to Tulane even if we win a couple of games that we aren't projected to win.

[golfnut69]

I will be more than happy to evaluate recruiting the 3rd week in Feb. 2017...evaluating recruiting now, is like Bill and Hillary telling everyone, Sub Prime Mortgages are good for the economy !!!

[jonathanjoseph]

Given that it's currently unlikely that we will receive a Big 12 invite that would lead to a spike in recruiting, it's becoming more and more unlikely that we will be able to turn this around in a significant way.

[Aberzombie1892]

Given that it's currently unlikely that we will receive a Big 12 invite that would lead to a spike in recruiting, it's becoming more and more unlikely that we will be able to turn this around in a significant way.

JJ, you've previously agreed with this assertion, but you now appear to be backtracking. I'm not surprised, as randomly changing your opinion appears to be your shtick.

[jonathanjoseph]

Given that it's currently unlikely that we will receive a Big 12 invite that would lead to a spike in recruiting, it's becoming more and more unlikely that we will be able to turn this around in a significant way.

JJ, you've previously agreed with this assertion, but you now appear to be backtracking. I'm not surprised, as randomly changing your opinion appears to be your shtick.

I am not backtracking. There's a huge difference between being concerned about current recruiting and "becoming more and more unlikely that we will be able to turn this around in a significant way."