Final call

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lurker123
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Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:37 pm

We will be stuck with the outcome unless SMU "foregoes" the win and that ain't happening. However several things may come out of this: First, Massive disciplining of the relevant members of the officiating crew if not the entire crew. If bad players get benched, then treat bad refs the same. Second, technology is cheap today. Add cameras to the pylons (as Nico Marley suggested) and every where else that matters. As he noted on Twitter, if schools won't pay players in college then put the money in massively improving review resources.


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RobertM320
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Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:47 pm

Tulane could refuse to take the field if this officiating crew is assigned to a game again.
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Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:14 pm

Pepper wrote:
Jaxwave wrote:Bottom line is coaches did not give team best chance to win with that last play call. They could have possibly gotten 3 plays off with quick passes on first and second down.
C'mon, they called a perfect pass play with a wide open receiver and the pass was off the mark.
You are correct about that. I was just commenting on what happened with 9 seconds to play. Notice I didn’t phrase it “Coaches blew call”, only that they didn’t play the odds by maximizing their plays with 9 seconds to go. That is football 101. They always had the option to call that Banks rollout as the last play but they should have called a quick pass play, and maybe even got two pass plays in before calling that Banks rollout. Also going under center on 4th and two was (I’ll be generous here) interesting at best. Appears Banks went wrong way running right into blitz.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:16 am

Jaxwave wrote:
Pepper wrote:
Jaxwave wrote:Bottom line is coaches did not give team best chance to win with that last play call. They could have possibly gotten 3 plays off with quick passes on first and second down.
C'mon, they called a perfect pass play with a wide open receiver and the pass was off the mark.
You are correct about that. I was just commenting on what happened with 9 seconds to play. Notice I didn’t phrase it “Coaches blew call”, only that they didn’t play the odds by maximizing their plays with 9 seconds to go. That is football 101. They always had the option to call that Banks rollout as the last play but they should have called a quick pass play, and maybe even got two pass plays in before calling that Banks rollout. Also going under center on 4th and two was (I’ll be generous here) interesting at best. Appears Banks went wrong way running right into blitz.
I think there is a good chance when SMU called a timeout with 9 seconds left, that Banks 'convinced" WF to let the outcome hang on his shoulders. WF thought it over and gave the chance to his QB knowing Banks has done it before thus decidingto go with the run rather than a pass and then field goal. Coach was right to believe in Banks cause the TD was made , just not conceded by the blind or corrupt refs.

Is there no "higher commission" still that can review this play in the larger sense of bowl bid being on the line for TU? Lord, knows we have 4 weeks still before a bowl and plenty of time for a legit review if Arnesco can push one. How in the past was TU not allowed to take back the "blatant" Miami 5th down play into the W column, yet had to forfeit their win over Flordida State when the ruling was QB son of Coach English was not legally allowed to play in that game?

PS: Nico Marley's idea of putting camera near goal post is excellent seeing how they do it in tennis now for a "challenge" by a player on the initial ruling from a court-side ump. The human eye can only see so much when "so much" is riding on some major downs.

PSS: Hats off to the Tulane players for a year well played. They are all WINNERS!!
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:37 am

RobertM320 wrote:For those who want to express their feelings, SMU basketball comes to town in six weeks. A nice round of boos when they get announced would be great and a raucous home crowd would be even better.
Like the idea but kinda more the refs fault than the FB or BB SMU players. Hard for most opposing teams to speak up even when they think the other team was right. they don't want a victory snatched from them even if undeserved.
I remember the good sportsmanship ambiance between Connors/McEnroe on Seniors tour when refs were calling serves out and Johhnie Mac yells out" Just let us call them, Jimmy and I will be fair with each other." (wish the world of sports was like that between players in general).
Btw: Graf thought the SMU fumble for TD should not have gone the Wave's way.
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wave97
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:40 am

swampnik wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:For those who want to express their feelings, SMU basketball comes to town in six weeks. A nice round of boos when they get announced would be great and a raucous home crowd would be even better.
Like the idea but kinda more the refs fault than the FB or BB SMU players. Hard for most opposing teams to speak up even when they think the other team was right. they don't want a victory snatched from them even if undeserved.
I remember the good sportsmanship ambiance between Connors/McEnroe on Seniors tour when refs were calling serves out and Johhnie Mac yells out" Just let us call them, Jimmy and I will be fair with each other." (wish the world of sports was like that between players in general).
Btw: Graf thought the SMU fumble for TD should not have gone the Wave's way.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:15 am

The reaction of number 15 for Tulane says a lot in the video. He has the best view on the field. I do think the tip of the ball may have crossed the goal line but I didn't see any video angle that was 100% conclusive. Just like I didn't see anything that was 100% conclusive on the fumble returned for the TD.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:47 am

First play of 2018 will be a sweep of the whole team running over the ref. The play is called “remember smu “
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:44 am

If the side judge and replay official are not asked by the conference on Monday to find another hobby on the weekends next Fall, I'd like to see us remove the American logos and patches off our uniforms and playing surfaces. This conference showed it's a joke during the Houston baseball series two years ago and confirmed it remains a joke yesterday.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:21 am

swampnik wrote:
Jaxwave wrote:
Pepper wrote:
Jaxwave wrote:Bottom line is coaches did not give team best chance to win with that last play call. They could have possibly gotten 3 plays off with quick passes on first and second down.
C'mon, they called a perfect pass play with a wide open receiver and the pass was off the mark.
You are correct about that. I was just commenting on what happened with 9 seconds to play. Notice I didn’t phrase it “Coaches blew call”, only that they didn’t play the odds by maximizing their plays with 9 seconds to go. That is football 101. They always had the option to call that Banks rollout as the last play but they should have called a quick pass play, and maybe even got two pass plays in before calling that Banks rollout. Also going under center on 4th and two was (I’ll be generous here) interesting at best. Appears Banks went wrong way running right into blitz.
I think there is a good chance when SMU called a timeout with 9 seconds left, that Banks 'convinced" WF to let the outcome hang on his shoulders. WF thought it over and gave the chance to his QB knowing Banks has done it before thus decidingto go with the run rather than a pass and then field goal. Coach was right to believe in Banks cause the TD was made , just not conceded by the blind or corrupt refs.

Is there no "higher commission" still that can review this play in the larger sense of bowl bid being on the line for TU? Lord, knows we have 4 weeks still before a bowl and plenty of time for a legit review if Arnesco can push one. How in the past was TU not allowed to take back the "blatant" Miami 5th down play into the W column, yet had to forfeit their win over Flordida State when the ruling was QB son of Coach English was not legally allowed to play in that game?

PS: Nico Marley's idea of putting camera near goal post is excellent seeing how they do it in tennis now for a "challenge" by a player on the initial ruling from a court-side ump. The human eye can only see so much when "so much" is riding on some major downs.

PSS: Hats off to the Tulane players for a year well played. They are all WINNERS!!
In reading WF's comments after the game the play was called as a pass. He said Banks saw a sliver and took off. He then said he wished he had a few more practices with him.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:25 pm

winwave wrote:
swampnik wrote:
Jaxwave wrote:
Pepper wrote:
Jaxwave wrote:Bottom line is coaches did not give team best chance to win with that last play call. They could have possibly gotten 3 plays off with quick passes on first and second down.
C'mon, they called a perfect pass play with a wide open receiver and the pass was off the mark.
You are correct about that. I was just commenting on what happened with 9 seconds to play. Notice I didn’t phrase it “Coaches blew call”, only that they didn’t play the odds by maximizing their plays with 9 seconds to go. That is football 101. They always had the option to call that Banks rollout as the last play but they should have called a quick pass play, and maybe even got two pass plays in before calling that Banks rollout. Also going under center on 4th and two was (I’ll be generous here) interesting at best. Appears Banks went wrong way running right into blitz.
I think there is a good chance when SMU called a timeout with 9 seconds left, that Banks 'convinced" WF to let the outcome hang on his shoulders. WF thought it over and gave the chance to his QB knowing Banks has done it before thus decidingto go with the run rather than a pass and then field goal. Coach was right to believe in Banks cause the TD was made , just not conceded by the blind or corrupt refs.

Is there no "higher commission" still that can review this play in the larger sense of bowl bid being on the line for TU? Lord, knows we have 4 weeks still before a bowl and plenty of time for a legit review if Arnesco can push one. How in the past was TU not allowed to take back the "blatant" Miami 5th down play into the W column, yet had to forfeit their win over Flordida State when the ruling was QB son of Coach English was not legally allowed to play in that game?

PS: Nico Marley's idea of putting camera near goal post is excellent seeing how they do it in tennis now for a "challenge" by a player on the initial ruling from a court-side ump. The human eye can only see so much when "so much" is riding on some major downs.

PSS: Hats off to the Tulane players for a year well played. They are all WINNERS!!
In reading WF's comments after the game the play was called as a pass. He said Banks saw a sliver and took off. He then said he wished he had a few more practices with him.
im as mad as the next guy here about the call because i think we were robbed but if you call a throwing play for a running qb and he runs, you cant be upset with the qb. thats what he did all year and he was pretty good at it. i just dont understand the play call here at all because even as bad as our special teams have been we can tie it with a field goal and have momentum going into overtime. i feel like fritz is kind of throwing banks under the bus here with this comment and it all could have been avoided if we would have just kicked the dang field goal.
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RobertM320
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:13 pm

I don't agree with kicking the FG without taking a shot at the TD first. If we throw an incomplete, we still had time for a FG, although Fritz did say after the game he would have gone for it anyway. Unless it was a clear path to the goal, which it wasn't, he needs to throw the pass. He could always choose to run on the next play. But he did throw the previous two plays. One was a dropped TD and the other resulted in a PI call. Can't fault Banks for trying to do it himself. He's our guy. I want him to take that initiative.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:12 pm

That last PI call really hurt us looking back. If not called we would have kicked the FG. As nowave said we had the momentum at that point. I know the football program subscribes to an analytics site so maybe Fritz really would have still gone for the TD and wasn't just trying to cover for Banks or the play call. But I think the book is wrong there. Too much on the line not to give ourselves a chance on OT.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:22 pm

RobertM320 wrote:I don't agree with kicking the FG without taking a shot at the TD first. If we throw an incomplete, we still had time for a FG, although Fritz did say after the game he would have gone for it anyway. Unless it was a clear path to the goal, which it wasn't, he needs to throw the pass. He could always choose to run on the next play. But he did throw the previous two plays. One was a dropped TD and the other resulted in a PI call. Can't fault Banks for trying to do it himself. He's our guy. I want him to take that initiative.
Agree, love that we were going for win no matter. Was glad to hear that WF called pass which was the right call to allow for a couple of shots at scoring. I'm ok with Banks improvising but may have been a little too aggressive as there really wasn't an open lane to the end zone. This won't be a popular opinion but I can see how the line judge missed the call if he felt the knee or elbow was down with the ball tucked instead of reaching. I'm not excusing the bad call but I'm not subscribing to it was intentionally called incorrectly. Mistakes are often made with ball position.. What failed in this case was the replay cameras. This is often a call that is overturned with conclusive camera shots. No such camera shot existed. No way could the call on the field be overturned with the lack of cameras. Sucks because estimations and law of physics would seem to confirm what a vast majority of people (including me) think, that we got screwed.

The same could be said though of the fumble called back. It seemed his knee was down but there wasn't anything conclusive that showed he had 100% possession when his knee hit. No way should that one have been overturned either.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:25 pm

winwave wrote:That last PI call really hurt us looking back. If not called we would have kicked the FG. As nowave said we had the momentum at that point. I know the football program subscribes to an analytics site so maybe Fritz really would have still gone for the TD and wasn't just trying to cover for Banks or the play call. But I think the book is wrong there. Too much on the line not to give ourselves a chance on OT.
PI call cost us 4 seconds but we would have run the same play on 3rd and goal from the 2 instead of 1st and goal from 1. Both decisions to run instead of pass would have resulted in the clock expiring.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:53 pm

net that call was on 3rd and two. If not called it would have been 4th. Might have changed the decision making.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:12 pm

Looks like they got it right:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... -play-2017

Also if you look at the later video Robertson has the best view and by his reaction he didn't think he got in.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:26 pm

winwave wrote:Looks like they got it right:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... -play-2017

Also if you look at the later video Robertson has the best view and by his reaction he didn't think he got in.
+1
He didn’t get in. He actually bounced in after he hit the ground. My apologies to the official.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:18 pm

tpstulane wrote:
winwave wrote:Looks like they got it right:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... -play-2017

Also if you look at the later video Robertson has the best view and by his reaction he didn't think he got in.
+1
He didn’t get in. He actually bounced in after he hit the ground. My apologies to the official.
So you think definitively it would be overturned, even with this new angle, if it was called a touchdown? I don't think the new video proves anything really (in or out). Though it does provide more "doubt'.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:27 pm

winwave wrote:net that call was on 3rd and two. If not called it would have been 4th. Might have changed the decision making.
You're absolutely right. the flag came out and immediately knew we had a new set of downs and I didn't even think about the fact it would have been 4th and thus a decision to kick or go for it. You think we would have kicked?
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:34 pm

netshorty wrote:
tpstulane wrote:
winwave wrote:Looks like they got it right:

https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... -play-2017

Also if you look at the later video Robertson has the best view and by his reaction he didn't think he got in.
+1
He didn’t get in. He actually bounced in after he hit the ground. My apologies to the official.
So you think definitively it would be overturned, even with this new angle, if it was called a touchdown? I don't think the new video proves anything really (in or out). Though it does provide more "doubt'.
No. They rarely overturn anything. (Unless it goes against Tulane that is)
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:09 pm

For what its worth, I think the “SMU video” shows that part of the ball broke the goal line plane. And from the line judge’s view it even looked more like a TD. SMU’s video to show it wasn’t a TD, shows that it was a TD. Try again, SMU.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:12 pm

HoustonWave wrote:For what its worth, I think the “SMU video” shows that part of the ball broke the goal line plane. And from the line judge’s view it even looked more like a TD. SMU’s video to show it wasn’t a TD, shows that it was a TD. Try again, SMU.
Funny that they didn't release the entire video, just a few frames from it. Unless someone has see otherwise.
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Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:04 pm

netshorty wrote:
winwave wrote:net that call was on 3rd and two. If not called it would have been 4th. Might have changed the decision making.
You're absolutely right. the flag came out and immediately knew we had a new set of downs and I didn't even think about the fact it would have been 4th and thus a decision to kick or go for it. You think we would have kicked?
We'll never know but I do think he would have. I certainly hope he would have. We had the momentum. We had just wore out their D going into OT while ours got a breather.
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