Tulane crushed by Memphis 56-26

winwave
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Re: Tulane crushed by Memphis 56-26

Postby winwave » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:37 pm

RobertM320 wrote:
winwave wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:Here's the two deep for Cincinnati. We've got 46 instead of 44, because we list two RB and three WR. Of the 46, 21 (almost half) are either FR, RS FR, or SO. We're very young, and yet far better than what we were 24 months ago.




The players playing the bulk of the minutes are upperclassmen. This is not a young team. In fact this is one of the few times in many years people can't run around yelling were young, wait till next year. Unfortunately next year we'll be back there.


But win, you're back to the same thing. The bulk of the minutes are upperclassmen. Yes they have experience, but they don't have talent. Those are CJ recruits. Obviously I don't mean Hilliard and Badie and a few others. My point was the talent Fritz has brought in is better than the talent that has gone in the past two seasons, but the new talent is young. The 2018 recruiting class currently rates substantially higher on a per recruit rating than any class we've brought in this century. The ratings are measured to the 1/100 of a percent, and many times there's only a few 100ths of a percent between players or overall average, but this year we're well over 81.30 average. The best we have EVER had since 247 started this is a 79.93. We' ve NEVER had a class rating over 80.00. EVER. So let's get Fritz' players on the field in some substantial numbers before we write him off.


R320 the point I responded to you was saying that many of WF's players were playing over veteran players. That's not the case for the most part. Depth charts mean nothing. They'll list a different player at every OL position but in a game there are only going to be 2 or 3 that would actually go in if needed and so on. So most of his freshman recruits aren't playing and we don't know yet whether they are any good. CJ did recruit some players with talent. The problem was the other issues they had. We're recruiting better character but we don't know if we have better talent.


It's the facilities stupid!

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Re: Tulane crushed by Memphis 56-26

Postby netshorty » Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:43 am

RobertM320 wrote:
Or to put it bluntly, our 2017 team would beat the 2015 team by at least 3 TDs. So how can we not be better?


A lot of good points made on both sides of the discussion but using any CJ coached team as a basis for measuring improvement is worthless and loses an arguments credibility. When you are the absolute bottom of the barrel it takes very little to say that you've improved and that little improvement still isn't good enough.



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Re: Tulane crushed by Memphis 56-26

Postby Ruski » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:39 am

winwave wrote: We're recruiting better character but we don't know if we have better talent.


Based on 247:

2018: .8133 avg, 79 rank
2017: .7855 avg, 111 rank
2016: .7956 avg, 97 rank

2015: .8002 avg, 91 rank
2014: .7930 avg, 90 rank
2013: .7994 avg, 83 rank
2012: .8008 avg, 83 rank

Make of it what you will. If WF can land his commits and maybe add a couple late additions he'll beat CJ according to rankings. Better character, better talent, better coach. WF is just better. CJ results were erractic. I'd rather have WF foundation up approach.



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Re: Tulane crushed by Memphis 56-26

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:45 am

It's a little soon to analyze the recruiting rankings since none of those players have signed the dotted line yet, and there are still a few opportunities remaining for something to occur that may negatively affect those commitments, such as either certain P5s swooping in or for Tulane to embarrass itself (i.e. Cincinnati or @ECU).



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Re: Memphis 56 - Tulane 26

Postby DfromCT » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:57 am

OUG wrote:
DfromCT wrote:
msdos wrote:JV coach, JV results.

1.2 million dollars well spent


But if we hired Andy Cannizaro to coach the 4th most important sport, all would be well in Greenie land.

What a crock of sh*t post.

Our 2017 team would beat our 2014 (N.O. Bowl) team by double digits.

I sure wish we hired Dino Babers, Scott Frost, or a number of others. But that doesn't mean we didn't get a good coach. But this coach runs an offense that is 180 degrees from what he inherited. I'm not a huge fan of Fritz, but he knows a hell of a lot more about football than you, me, and ANYONE posting here. Including the mods.

And if you look back, I posted that Fritz's offense was going to be a challenge with what he inherits. Many posters replied saying "he doesn't really run an option offense." Even this year we've had posters saying it's not an option offense. It is. IT IS. It's very similar to what the Military Academies run, but out of the shotgun every snap. I don't love it, but it is what it is.


He doesn't run an option offense. Just because we run some option plays does not mean we run the flexbone that those schools run. We run an inside zone-based option that allows the QB to make key reads pre and post-snap and decide whether to pull the ball or run it. On less than ten plays a game are we running a pure option outside-pitch play or some version of a triple option with a dive play. It is a part of our offense but to compare it to the military academies is just not accurate.

I do agree with your point that Fritz did not have the tools to run what we are running when he got here, because to run our offense you need 1) an offensive line that knows how to zone block, 2) a QB that has multiple skill sets and can make the right pre- and post-snap reads and execute the QB runs, and 3) a possession oriented wide receiver corps with size and hands.

But you're wrong in characterizing our offense as an "option offense"..."similar to the military academies"


It is similar, but far from identical to the military academies but we don't test the corners nearly as often, and it's run from the shotgun 100% of the time. Fritz calls it an option offense. The announcers call it an option offense. College football calls it an option offense ("if you take out the Service Academies and Tulane, Notre Dame is 2nd or 3rd in the country in rushing yards/game")
Last edited by DfromCT on Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.


" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your ongoing support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia

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Re: Tulane crushed by Memphis 56-26

Postby DfromCT » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:00 am

Ruski wrote:
winwave wrote: We're recruiting better character but we don't know if we have better talent.


Based on 247:

2018: .8133 avg, 79 rank
2017: .7855 avg, 111 rank
2016: .7956 avg, 97 rank

2015: .8002 avg, 91 rank
2014: .7930 avg, 90 rank
2013: .7994 avg, 83 rank
2012: .8008 avg, 83 rank

Make of it what you will. If WF can land his commits and maybe add a couple late additions he'll beat CJ according to rankings. Better character, better talent, better coach. WF is just better. CJ results were erractic. I'd rather have WF foundation up approach.


How many of CJ's recruits that helped push his recruiting rankings took the field for more than one season? Many never saw the field, and others played a year, maybe two before it became clear they couldn't cut it academically even with the "athlete friendly" majors that were put in.


" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your ongoing support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia

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Re: Tulane crushed by Memphis 56-26

Postby Ruski » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:02 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:It's a little soon to analyze the recruiting rankings since none of those players have signed the dotted line yet, and there are still a few opportunities remaining for something to occur that may negatively affect those commitments, such as either certain P5s swooping in or for Tulane to embarrass itself (i.e. Cincinnati or @ECU).


Strong probability we lose some. However I just looked back and on Nov 1 last year we only had 2 3star commits.

If I remember right only 2/3 of the decommits were guys we really wanted. I know Kieston Roach was highly rated but there were some grade/attitude issues. Clark going to Georgia Tech was rough and the Iowa LB who went to Syracuse sucked last minute. Overall it seemed like WF was able to close the deal.

Big difference with WF and CJ though is that CJ usually had 1/2 really highly rated recruits that skewed the average. WF seems to prefer a higher number of lower level 3 stars and improve the actual talent across the board.



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Re: Memphis 56 - Tulane 26

Postby wave97 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:27 am

OUG wrote:
DfromCT wrote:
msdos wrote:JV coach, JV results.

1.2 million dollars well spent


But if we hired Andy Cannizaro to coach the 4th most important sport, all would be well in Greenie land.

What a crock of sh*t post.

Our 2017 team would beat our 2014 (N.O. Bowl) team by double digits.

I sure wish we hired Dino Babers, Scott Frost, or a number of others. But that doesn't mean we didn't get a good coach. But this coach runs an offense that is 180 degrees from what he inherited. I'm not a huge fan of Fritz, but he knows a hell of a lot more about football than you, me, and ANYONE posting here. Including the mods.

And if you look back, I posted that Fritz's offense was going to be a challenge with what he inherits. Many posters replied saying "he doesn't really run an option offense." Even this year we've had posters saying it's not an option offense. It is. IT IS. It's very similar to what the Military Academies run, but out of the shotgun every snap. I don't love it, but it is what it is.


He doesn't run an option offense. Just because we run some option plays does not mean we run the flexbone that those schools run. We run an inside zone-based option that allows the QB to make key reads pre and post-snap and decide whether to pull the ball or run it. On less than ten plays a game are we running a pure option outside-pitch play or some version of a triple option with a dive play. It is a part of our offense but to compare it to the military academies is just not accurate.

I do agree with your point that Fritz did not have the tools to run what we are running when he got here, because to run our offense you need 1) an offensive line that knows how to zone block, 2) a QB that has multiple skill sets and can make the right pre- and post-snap reads and execute the QB runs, and 3) a possession oriented wide receiver corps with size and hands.

But you're wrong in characterizing our offense as an "option offense"..."similar to the military academies"

+1
Our offense bears no resemblance to what Navy, Army & Georgia Tech run. However, our o-lineman have to become way more athletic and assertive to negate defensive schemes that rely on disruptive gapping (like Tanzel & Nico did so effectively last year).
It isn't like the late 90's when an o-lineman in a zone read scheme could seal off a defender with ease. Clemson, Ohio State & Oklahoma have o-lineman with the skill and size to "wash out" gapping defensive fronts.



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Re: Tulane crushed by Memphis 56-26

Postby winwave » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:47 pm

DfromCT wrote:
Ruski wrote:
winwave wrote: We're recruiting better character but we don't know if we have better talent.


Based on 247:

2018: .8133 avg, 79 rank
2017: .7855 avg, 111 rank
2016: .7956 avg, 97 rank

2015: .8002 avg, 91 rank
2014: .7930 avg, 90 rank
2013: .7994 avg, 83 rank
2012: .8008 avg, 83 rank

Make of it what you will. If WF can land his commits and maybe add a couple late additions he'll beat CJ according to rankings. Better character, better talent, better coach. WF is just better. CJ results were erractic. I'd rather have WF foundation up approach.


How many of CJ's recruits that helped push his recruiting rankings took the field for more than one season? Many never saw the field, and others played a year, maybe two before it became clear they couldn't cut it academically even with the "athlete friendly" majors that were put in.


R320 made a post that said we had many young players playing b/c they are more talented than the veteran players. I pointed out that's not the case. We are playing mostly veterans who were recruited by CJ. At his point in time those young players aren't there but they could certainly get there down the road. Another falsehood is saying that most players from CJ's classes didn't stick around. His last class did fall apart and the other classes included some troublemakers but many of his recruits did stick around and are still playing the large bulk of minutes this season. Several, about 5 each on offense and defense and Block at punter, will also play next year. After that it will be over for his recruits .

R320 then responded by just talking about overall recruiting between the two. As is often noted on these sites rankings don't mean anything once they get here. So we still have to wait a couple of seasons to see what WF's recruits will do. Hopefully it turns out well.
Last edited by winwave on Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.


It's the facilities stupid!

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Re: Tulane crushed by Memphis 56-26

Postby wave97 » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:48 pm

If only CJ were the WR's coach on this staff. Are Slade Nagle & Jamaal Fobbs the only native Louisianans on the staff? There is way too much talent at DL & Corner in this State for our cupboard to be empty in those positions.



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Re: Memphis 56 - Tulane 26

Postby WeWave2 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:09 am

DfromCT wrote:
OUG wrote:
DfromCT wrote:
msdos wrote:JV coach, JV results.

1.2 million dollars well spent


But if we hired Andy Cannizaro to coach the 4th most important sport, all would be well in Greenie land.

What a crock of sh*t post.

Our 2017 team would beat our 2014 (N.O. Bowl) team by double digits.

I sure wish we hired Dino Babers, Scott Frost, or a number of others. But that doesn't mean we didn't get a good coach. But this coach runs an offense that is 180 degrees from what he inherited. I'm not a huge fan of Fritz, but he knows a hell of a lot more about football than you, me, and ANYONE posting here. Including the mods.

And if you look back, I posted that Fritz's offense was going to be a challenge with what he inherits. Many posters replied saying "he doesn't really run an option offense." Even this year we've had posters saying it's not an option offense. It is. IT IS. It's very similar to what the Military Academies run, but out of the shotgun every snap. I don't love it, but it is what it is.


He doesn't run an option offense. Just because we run some option plays does not mean we run the flexbone that those schools run. We run an inside zone-based option that allows the QB to make key reads pre and post-snap and decide whether to pull the ball or run it. On less than ten plays a game are we running a pure option outside-pitch play or some version of a triple option with a dive play. It is a part of our offense but to compare it to the military academies is just not accurate.

I do agree with your point that Fritz did not have the tools to run what we are running when he got here, because to run our offense you need 1) an offensive line that knows how to zone block, 2) a QB that has multiple skill sets and can make the right pre- and post-snap reads and execute the QB runs, and 3) a possession oriented wide receiver corps with size and hands.

But you're wrong in characterizing our offense as an "option offense"..."similar to the military academies"


It is similar, but far from identical to the military academies but we don't test the corners nearly as often, and it's run from the shotgun 100% of the time. Fritz calls it an option offense. The announcers call it an option offense. College football calls it an option offense ("if you take out the Service Academies and Tulane, Notre Dame is 2nd or 3rd in the country in rushing yards/game")


I have to agree. WF looks more like a power spread than an option. Lets face it. He needs players.



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