For Discussion-What would you do....

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RobertM320
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Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:03 pm

mbawavefan12 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:It reflects the values of the university. If it doesn't, tell my why we know up front you wont see it happening at Army, Navy, probably ND and BYU as well.
It most certainly does not, it reflects the values of the individuals. The military schools and maybe very conservative schools (like maybe A&M) may not but literally every other college in the country would be exposed to this kneeling stuff. Say you don;t agree, but don;t extrapolate it to the entire university. Hell, you have any idea how many silly protests are going on everyday at universities all over the country? Do those protests reflect the values of the entire university, of course not. Oh and this....even the academies are not immune to today's constant need to voice your opinions publicly.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/27/we ... sages.html
That article is a whole different issue. He's actually already been a soldier, before he got accepted to West Point. And you can best believe he won't be serving any more.


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mbawavefan12
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Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:11 pm

RobertM320 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:It reflects the values of the university. If it doesn't, tell my why we know up front you wont see it happening at Army, Navy, probably ND and BYU as well.
It most certainly does not, it reflects the values of the individuals. The military schools and maybe very conservative schools (like maybe A&M) may not but literally every other college in the country would be exposed to this kneeling stuff. Say you don;t agree, but don;t extrapolate it to the entire university. Hell, you have any idea how many silly protests are going on everyday at universities all over the country? Do those protests reflect the values of the entire university, of course not. Oh and this....even the academies are not immune to today's constant need to voice your opinions publicly.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/27/we ... sages.html
That article is a whole different issue. He's actually already been a soldier, before he got accepted to West Point. And you can best believe he won't be serving any more.
Point being that even cadets are protesting in ways that would be unimaginable in the past.

I just think people are just way too sensitive and always out to prove some sort of point, on both sides I may add. But hell, you don;t want to watch games cause a 19 year old kid kneels for the anthem, go ahead, I just think it's no more naive than the kneeling act itself.
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RobertM320
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Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:46 pm

mbawavefan12 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:It reflects the values of the university. If it doesn't, tell my why we know up front you wont see it happening at Army, Navy, probably ND and BYU as well.
It most certainly does not, it reflects the values of the individuals. The military schools and maybe very conservative schools (like maybe A&M) may not but literally every other college in the country would be exposed to this kneeling stuff. Say you don;t agree, but don;t extrapolate it to the entire university. Hell, you have any idea how many silly protests are going on everyday at universities all over the country? Do those protests reflect the values of the entire university, of course not. Oh and this....even the academies are not immune to today's constant need to voice your opinions publicly.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/27/we ... sages.html
That article is a whole different issue. He's actually already been a soldier, before he got accepted to West Point. And you can best believe he won't be serving any more.
Point being that even cadets are protesting in ways that would be unimaginable in the past.

I just think people are just way too sensitive and always out to prove some sort of point, on both sides I may add. But hell, you don;t want to watch games cause a 19 year old kid kneels for the anthem, go ahead, I just think it's no more naive than the kneeling act itself.
I think you'll find that what this kid did wasn't a protest. Its his core beliefs. And as such, there's no place for him in the US Military. Even his father came out with a statement of how disappointed he is. Cadet spent some time in Afghanistan. His beliefs were obviously affected by it.
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Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:12 pm

The only acceptable kneel is the victory formation at the end of the game!.
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Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:34 pm

Pepper wrote:The only acceptable kneel is the victory formation at the end of the game!.
Good one Pepper.
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Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:36 pm

I would applaud their right to free speech.
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RobertM320
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Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:14 pm

No ones denying them the right to free speech. There's no guarantee in the Constitution that there won't be consequences for that speech. School can choose to suspend them for improper conduct. That's a pretty catch all category.
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Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:32 pm

RobertM320 wrote:No ones denying them the right to free speech. There's no guarantee in the Constitution that there won't be consequences for that speech. School can choose to suspend them for improper conduct. That's a pretty catch all category.
Suspending them for improper conduct? Assuming that Tulane would even want to suspend them for doing so (which it would not), it's not going to willfully attract the press and ill will it would receive for doing so.
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Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:29 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:No ones denying them the right to free speech. There's no guarantee in the Constitution that there won't be consequences for that speech. School can choose to suspend them for improper conduct. That's a pretty catch all category.
Suspending them for improper conduct? Assuming that Tulane would even want to suspend them for doing so (which it would not), it's not going to willfully attract the press and ill will it would receive for doing so.
Agreed. Plus, let's not forget the idea that this is a university that encourages critical/free thinking from it's students and forcing them to stand for the anthem goes directly against free/critical thinking. It's their choice just like it's everyone's own choice to do whatever they feel is appropriate.
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Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:38 pm

Each coach is different. If a kid kneeled on Jewett he’d be benched.
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RobertM320
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Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:59 pm

I didn't say Tulane in particular. I just said there are options the schools have. Unfortunately, today's society seems to equate "free speech" with "I can do what I want whenever I want to". That's NOT what free speech means.
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Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:10 pm

I would respect their actions, however, I would disagree with it. It if continued I'd give up my season tickets.
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:10 am

It's a free country, stand if you want, kneel if you want, sit if you want.
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:05 am

Americans do have all those rights of expression. However it's on their own time that they can do so. When you go to work you don't get to protest. No employer would allow workers coming in and wearing shirts with messages of protest and the like. It's just that simple.
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Aberzombie1892
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:27 am

But student athletes are not workers, and they're not wearing a shirt protesting anything either. That's the whole point. If they were workers that were paid for their services - as in, paid what the market would allow not the silly tuition and COA stuff - then it wouldn't be an issue for universities to make rules around it.
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:45 pm

I was mostly referring to the NFL but they get scholarships and they do get stipends and many other benefits. They are on the teams time then and not their own. If they want to protest they can buy a ticket and go the game and sit when the anthem is played.
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Aberzombie1892
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:31 pm

winwave wrote:I was mostly referring to the NFL but they get scholarships and they do get stipends and many other benefits. They are on the teams time then and not their own. If they want to protest they can buy a ticket and go the game and sit when the anthem is played.
If they were employees, I would agree.
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:05 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
winwave wrote:I was mostly referring to the NFL but they get scholarships and they do get stipends and many other benefits. They are on the teams time then and not their own. If they want to protest they can buy a ticket and go the game and sit when the anthem is played.
If they were employees, I would agree.
I'm with Azer on this one even though I'm hesitant to pay student athletes.
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:06 pm

same thing. They are on Tulane's time and representing Tulane.
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:35 pm

winwave wrote:I was mostly referring to the NFL but they get scholarships and they do get stipends and many other benefits. They are on the teams time then and not their own. If they want to protest they can buy a ticket and go the game and sit when the anthem is played.
Well you're obviously wrong. Their employers are allowing them to protest. The owners don't have a problem with it. So why should you?
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:04 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:But student athletes are not workers, and they're not wearing a shirt protesting anything either. That's the whole point. If they were workers that were paid for their services - as in, paid what the market would allow not the silly tuition and COA stuff - then it wouldn't be an issue for universities to make rules around it.

Yes, they are not being paid. However, they are representing Tulane!
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:20 pm

winwave wrote:same thing. They are on Tulane's time and representing Tulane.
If scholarships and actual financial payment were the same thing, (1) NCAAF amateurism would not exist and (2) scholarships would have transferable value.
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RobertM320
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:30 pm

I have to agree with winwave. Payment or not, when you put on a Tulane uniform in any sport, you are representing Tulane University, and you're not to do anything that might reflect negatively on the school. That's the beginning and end of it.
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:39 pm

Gotta love the bye week
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Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:56 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
winwave wrote:same thing. They are on Tulane's time and representing Tulane.
If scholarships and actual financial payment were the same thing, (1) NCAAF amateurism would not exist and (2) scholarships would have transferable value.
They do receive stipends and if you don't consider a full scholarship a thing of value I don't what to say to you.
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