Army Game Thread

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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby wave97 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:42 am

OUG wrote:
wave97 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:Any word on Sean Wilson?

Sean Wilson playing injured. or withheld from playing will have an enormous negative effect on the entire defense. If I were laying money on this game without Sean Wilson. I'd take Army.


Even if Wilson isn't 100% Army is a lot more banged up than we are (missing left tackle, safety, etc), so I'm not sure why you'd do that.

It takes a lot less skill to be a left o-tackle in a man-to-man weight forward old school bone than it does to than it does to defend against it. The d-line has to deny access to LB's while stopping the dive and maintaining gap integrity in pursuit. That's a tall order in a world where this offense is deployed by four or five teams. Georgia Tech's o-line destroyed Tennesse's four & five-star d-line with this scheme. Army's o-line only has to sustain their blocks for a split second to be effective by getting low and often targeting vulnerable joints. A steady sound hand up front goes a long way in keeping this offense contained.



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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby GreenPuddleSplash » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:49 am

wave97 wrote:
OUG wrote:
wave97 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:Any word on Sean Wilson?

Sean Wilson playing injured. or withheld from playing will have an enormous negative effect on the entire defense. If I were laying money on this game without Sean Wilson. I'd take Army.


Even if Wilson isn't 100% Army is a lot more banged up than we are (missing left tackle, safety, etc), so I'm not sure why you'd do that.

It takes a lot less skill to be a left o-tackle in a man-to-man weight forward old school bone than it does to than it does to defend against it. The d-line has to deny access to LB's while stopping the dive and maintaining gap integrity in pursuit. That's a tall order in a world where this offense is deployed by four or five teams. Georgia Tech's o-line destroyed Tennesse's four & five-star d-line with this scheme. Army's o-line only has to sustain their blocks for a split second to be effective by getting low and often targeting vulnerable joints. A steady sound hand up front goes a long way in keeping this offense contained.


GT also has a right guard that is exceptionally large and agile for his size. I forgot his name but I do remember GT loved running/ diving to the right behind their right guard who was pushing the vols around all day.



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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby BC Wave » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:18 am

winwave wrote:
NOLABigSteve wrote:
sader24 wrote:The last thing you can call a person who still follows Tulane football is impatient. IMO our remaining fan base are too patient. We are far better coached than under CJ. There is no room for debate on that, however I can't be the only one worried about this offense. The Navy game was winnable and it wasn't won. I have no interest in moral victories at this point. It will be hard for me to see the light at the end of the tunnel if we can't knock off Army at home this week. It is a winnable game against a service academy at our home on campus stadium.

This. +100000

We all "want it now." Difference is some of you are willing to settle for moral victories, and spout the same rah rah cheer that comes with every coaching change. Jesus, every coach since our last winning coach 20 years ago in Bowden (and let's throw Teevens, Greg Davis, etc. before him in there) we've heard the same thing about building the foundation, doing things right, getting the right players in here, we're young, blah blah blah the list goes on. Some fans, actually the majority of fans, aren't buying into that bullsh*t anymore. Good coaches find ways to win. PERIOD. We are TULANE, we don't have the luxury or the time to roadmap the next 10 years. We missed that bus a LONG time ago. It needs to happen, and it needs to happen NOW.

Davis - Blah
Teevens - Blah
Scelfo - 1 bowl, Blah
Toledo - Used to coach at UCLA, let's see what he can do. Blah
CJ - Great recruiting, good with local talent, Saints connection. 1 bowl. Blah.

The same discussions we all are having about Fritz NOW were had about all of these coaches back THEN. And now all of a sudden because some of you HAVE A FEELING that Fritz will be different and successful that all the rest of us are crazy for thinking otherwise. Not a chance. The only thing different NOW vs. THEN is we are paying the head coach more, we have a new A.D., and we have an EMTPY, TINY on-campus stadium. But you know what, at the end of the day, Fritz hasn't show me sh*t, and until he does, I won't drink your kool-aid. It's up to him and you to prove us wrong. It's not the other way around, because we are where we are, and that's at the bottom of the freaking barrel.


To add to what Steve said we also had TB/RR come in and win in year 1 and go undefeated in year 2 b/c they came in and actually adjusted the scheme to the players they inherited. Most coaches just give lip service to adapting to the players they have. So that part of our history adds to the angst of the thought of having to wait 5 years for things to work.


Not that it proves anything, yet, but the major omission of the WF discussion is that, unlike his predecessors, he has won as head coach at every previous gig.

Again, nothing is proven but it should be noted.



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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby Profoundwizard » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:20 am

OUG wrote:
wave97 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:Any word on Sean Wilson?

Sean Wilson playing injured. or withheld from playing will have an enormous negative effect on the entire defense. If I were laying money on this game without Sean Wilson. I'd take Army.


Even if Wilson isn't 100% Army is a lot more banged up than we are (missing left tackle, safety, etc), so I'm not sure why you'd do that.


wave97 isn't exactly known for his stellar predictions.

He predicted that Les Miles bringing in Ed Orgeron as the LSU D Line coach would bring them another national championship. :lol: :lol: :lol:



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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby tpstulane » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:23 am

Profoundwizard wrote:
OUG wrote:
wave97 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:Any word on Sean Wilson?

Sean Wilson playing injured. or withheld from playing will have an enormous negative effect on the entire defense. If I were laying money on this game without Sean Wilson. I'd take Army.


Even if Wilson isn't 100% Army is a lot more banged up than we are (missing left tackle, safety, etc), so I'm not sure why you'd do that.


wave97 isn't exactly known for his stellar predictions.

He predicted that Les Miles bringing in Ed Orgeron as the LSU D Line coach would bring them another national championship. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry to get off topic but Coach O is now 0-13 as a head coach in SEC road games. So he’d Owned his “O”


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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby DfromCT » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:09 pm

tpstulane wrote:Sorry to get off topic but Coach O is now 0-13 as a head coach in SEC road games. So he’d Owned his “O”


Not to be too nit picky, Tim, but didn't Coach O coach the Tiggers last November? I may be mistaken, but I believe that the Tiggers beat Arkansas and Texas A&M on the road that month.


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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby winwave » Thu Sep 21, 2017 12:39 pm

BC Wave wrote:
winwave wrote:
NOLABigSteve wrote:
sader24 wrote:The last thing you can call a person who still follows Tulane football is impatient. IMO our remaining fan base are too patient. We are far better coached than under CJ. There is no room for debate on that, however I can't be the only one worried about this offense. The Navy game was winnable and it wasn't won. I have no interest in moral victories at this point. It will be hard for me to see the light at the end of the tunnel if we can't knock off Army at home this week. It is a winnable game against a service academy at our home on campus stadium.

This. +100000

We all "want it now." Difference is some of you are willing to settle for moral victories, and spout the same rah rah cheer that comes with every coaching change. Jesus, every coach since our last winning coach 20 years ago in Bowden (and let's throw Teevens, Greg Davis, etc. before him in there) we've heard the same thing about building the foundation, doing things right, getting the right players in here, we're young, blah blah blah the list goes on. Some fans, actually the majority of fans, aren't buying into that bullsh*t anymore. Good coaches find ways to win. PERIOD. We are TULANE, we don't have the luxury or the time to roadmap the next 10 years. We missed that bus a LONG time ago. It needs to happen, and it needs to happen NOW.

Davis - Blah
Teevens - Blah
Scelfo - 1 bowl, Blah
Toledo - Used to coach at UCLA, let's see what he can do. Blah
CJ - Great recruiting, good with local talent, Saints connection. 1 bowl. Blah.

The same discussions we all are having about Fritz NOW were had about all of these coaches back THEN. And now all of a sudden because some of you HAVE A FEELING that Fritz will be different and successful that all the rest of us are crazy for thinking otherwise. Not a chance. The only thing different NOW vs. THEN is we are paying the head coach more, we have a new A.D., and we have an EMTPY, TINY on-campus stadium. But you know what, at the end of the day, Fritz hasn't show me sh*t, and until he does, I won't drink your kool-aid. It's up to him and you to prove us wrong. It's not the other way around, because we are where we are, and that's at the bottom of the freaking barrel.


To add to what Steve said we also had TB/RR come in and win in year 1 and go undefeated in year 2 b/c they came in and actually adjusted the scheme to the players they inherited. Most coaches just give lip service to adapting to the players they have. So that part of our history adds to the angst of the thought of having to wait 5 years for things to work.


Not that it proves anything, yet, but the major omission of the WF discussion is that, unlike his predecessors, he has won as head coach at every previous gig.

Again, nothing is proven but it should be noted.


Correct and actually I believe it is noted by those of us still holding on to hope that he will get it done here. His winning ways and the structure he has brought to the program are big factors in that hope.


It's the facilities stupid!

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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby tpstulane » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:19 pm

DfromCT wrote:
tpstulane wrote:Sorry to get off topic but Coach O is now 0-13 as a head coach in SEC road games. So he’d Owned his “O”


Not to be too nit picky, Tim, but didn't Coach O coach the Tiggers last November? I may be mistaken, but I believe that the Tiggers beat Arkansas and Texas A&M on the road that month.

Yes but not as official head coach. He got hired after the season.


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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby NOLABigSteve » Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:52 pm

BC Wave wrote:Not that it proves anything, yet, but the major omission of the WF discussion is that, unlike his predecessors, he has won as head coach at every previous gig.

Again, nothing is proven but it should be noted.

You are absolutely correct. This is exactly why I thought we would have at least seen a few more wins over the last 15 games, an adaptation by WF to better utilize the current players, and all of this thrown in with improved special teams.

2 coaches, each coaching the same group of players, has so far equaled similar results. Can't argue with that.


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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby winwave » Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:24 pm



It's the facilities stupid!

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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby DfromCT » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:00 pm

tpstulane wrote:
DfromCT wrote:
tpstulane wrote:Sorry to get off topic but Coach O is now 0-13 as a head coach in SEC road games. So he’d Owned his “O”


Not to be too nit picky, Tim, but didn't Coach O coach the Tiggers last November? I may be mistaken, but I believe that the Tiggers beat Arkansas and Texas A&M on the road that month.

Yes but not as official head coach. He got hired after the season.


But those games, along with the ones he had as interim HC at USC, go on his (all-time) record as a Head Coach.


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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby tpstulane » Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:39 pm

DfromCT wrote:
tpstulane wrote:
DfromCT wrote:
tpstulane wrote:Sorry to get off topic but Coach O is now 0-13 as a head coach in SEC road games. So he’d Owned his “O”


Not to be too nit picky, Tim, but didn't Coach O coach the Tiggers last November? I may be mistaken, but I believe that the Tiggers beat Arkansas and Texas A&M on the road that month.

Yes but not as official head coach. He got hired after the season.


But those games, along with the ones he had as interim HC at USC, go on his (all-time) record as a Head Coach.


https://www.andthevalleyshook.com/2017/ ... ed-orgeron
.... Ed Orgeron has never won an SEC road game, and his previous tenure at Ole Miss ended with a 3-21 SEC record, the worst in conference history.

That’s why I posted. That article just came out today.


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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby UptWave91 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:02 pm




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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby galvezwave » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:22 pm

UptWave91 wrote:



Like



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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby Wave755 » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:31 pm

UptWave91 wrote:

Nice, but the 1979 uniforms are still our best.



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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby DfromCT » Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:46 pm

tpstulane wrote:https://www.andthevalleyshook.com/2017/ ... ed-orgeron
.... Ed Orgeron has never won an SEC road game, and his previous tenure at Ole Miss ended with a 3-21 SEC record, the worst in conference history.

That’s why I posted. That article just came out today.


Ok, I get it. As a HC (without an "interim" tag) he's winless on the road in the SEC. I was wrong according to some beat writers measure.


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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby winwave » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:53 pm



It's the facilities stupid!

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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby Ruski » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:06 am

NOLABigSteve wrote:
BC Wave wrote:Not that it proves anything, yet, but the major omission of the WF discussion is that, unlike his predecessors, he has won as head coach at every previous gig.

Again, nothing is proven but it should be noted.

You are absolutely correct. This is exactly why I thought we would have at least seen a few more wins over the last 15 games, an adaptation by WF to better utilize the current players, and all of this thrown in with improved special teams.

2 coaches, each coaching the same group of players, has so far equaled similar results. Can't argue with that.



It feels a bit different but I think you're right about the similar results. I don't have the time now but I'd love to see the break down of our points scored vs. allowed in 4th quarters. Also how many leads we've lost in the late 3rd/4th quarter. Really seems like Fritz can't finish games at all.



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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby Aegis » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:28 am

"Really seems like Fritz can't finish games at all." Kind of a silly statement. Players finish games not coaches. Coaches may have poor game plan but it is up too the players to finish for the win. If your ahead late obviously something was working.



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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby GreenPuddleSplash » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:44 am

Ruski wrote:
NOLABigSteve wrote:
BC Wave wrote:Not that it proves anything, yet, but the major omission of the WF discussion is that, unlike his predecessors, he has won as head coach at every previous gig.

Again, nothing is proven but it should be noted.

You are absolutely correct. This is exactly why I thought we would have at least seen a few more wins over the last 15 games, an adaptation by WF to better utilize the current players, and all of this thrown in with improved special teams.

2 coaches, each coaching the same group of players, has so far equaled similar results. Can't argue with that.



It feels a bit different but I think you're right about the similar results. I don't have the time now but I'd love to see the break down of our points scored vs. allowed in 4th quarters. Also how many leads we've lost in the late 3rd/4th quarter. Really seems like Fritz can't finish games at all.


I agree with this somewhat. WF hasn't shown he can close out games at TU yet so that worries me a bit. I will give him the benefit of the doubt right now that the problem is the lack of depth, but if we are facing the same results by his full 3rd year, my pitchfork will be sharpened and the torches will be coming out of the shed.



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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby DfromCT » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:37 am

To "not be able to finish" you need to have a lead late in the game. Other than SMU last year, what games did we lead late that we lost the lead? Sorry but games like Wake Forest last year, or Navy this year are NOT games that we couldn't finish. Those are games we had a CHANCE to win, but couldn't come from behind late. Two different categories.


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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby RobertM320 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:04 pm

DfromCT wrote:To "not be able to finish" you need to have a lead late in the game. Other than SMU last year, what games did we lead late that we lost the lead? Sorry but games like Wake Forest last year, or Navy this year are NOT games that we couldn't finish. Those are games we had a CHANCE to win, but couldn't come from behind late. Two different categories.


Navy last year.


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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby winwave » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:27 pm

Banks will start as per WF on the Dunc and Holder show.


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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby DfromCT » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:57 pm

RobertM320 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:To "not be able to finish" you need to have a lead late in the game. Other than SMU last year, what games did we lead late that we lost the lead? Sorry but games like Wake Forest last year, or Navy this year are NOT games that we couldn't finish. Those are games we had a CHANCE to win, but couldn't come from behind late. Two different categories.


Navy last year.


Ok, fair enough. So twice in Coach Fritz's 15 games here we've lost a lead late. The Navy game we were winning 14-13 at the end of the 3rd quarter and most of the fourth. If that means we can't close games, I guess I'm wrong. But I think our problem is more one of not having the depth to compete as strongly in the second half as we can in the first half. And I see this staff constantly working to change that. Notice how many underclassmen get into the games? A whole lot of true Freshman are playing this year, and contributing, despite the "experts" giving the recruiting class poor grades.

To answer Ruski's question above about how many games we've lost a lead late in the fourth quarter, I believe the answer is twice. You can even add U-La-La last year to that category, as we were up by a TD with 6 minutes left and won in OT. So if you count the U-La-La game, it's three times in 15 games. On the flip side, we would have lost the game at UMass if CJ or CBT were coaching, having spotted them 14 in the first 4 minutes of the game.


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Re: Army Game Thread

Postby RobertM320 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:39 pm

DfromCT wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:To "not be able to finish" you need to have a lead late in the game. Other than SMU last year, what games did we lead late that we lost the lead? Sorry but games like Wake Forest last year, or Navy this year are NOT games that we couldn't finish. Those are games we had a CHANCE to win, but couldn't come from behind late. Two different categories.


Navy last year.


Ok, fair enough. So twice in Coach Fritz's 15 games here we've lost a lead late. The Navy game we were winning 14-13 at the end of the 3rd quarter and most of the fourth. If that means we can't close games, I guess I'm wrong. But I think our problem is more one of not having the depth to compete as strongly in the second half as we can in the first half. And I see this staff constantly working to change that. Notice how many underclassmen get into the games? A whole lot of true Freshman are playing this year, and contributing, despite the "experts" giving the recruiting class poor grades.

To answer Ruski's question above about how many games we've lost a lead late in the fourth quarter, I believe the answer is twice. You can even add U-La-La last year to that category, as we were up by a TD with 6 minutes left and won in OT. So if you count the U-La-La game, it's three times in 15 games. On the flip side, we would have lost the game at UMass if CJ or CBT were coaching, having spotted them 14 in the first 4 minutes of the game.


D, just so you realize, I agree with you. I agree its more of not having the depth, and I see that changing as well. Maybe we haven't seen the difference result in more wins, but anyone that says this team is not better than what CJ or Buffet Bob put on the field just isn't paying attention.


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