Truth about stacking-Finally

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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby Profoundwizard » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:07 pm

Jesus, we don't have to pretend 3 hits and 17 at-bats over 4 seasons is a real contribution. If you're making that argument you're just being argumentative



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby Show Me » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:15 pm

So in conclusion. We've learned Tulane still hasn't done anything about not stacking need based aid. And 3 hits in 4 years is a real contribution.
:roll:



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby winwave » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:18 pm

Profoundwizard wrote:Jesus, we don't have to pretend 3 hits and 17 at-bats over 4 seasons is a real contribution. If you're making that argument you're just being argumentative


He hit a home run that got us a win while playing for an injured Alemais. You can discount it but I won't.


It's the facilities stupid!

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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby winwave » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:19 pm

Show Me wrote:So in conclusion. We've learned Tulane still hasn't done anything about not stacking need based aid. And 3 hits in 4 years is a real contribution.
:roll:


No we learned that by NCAA rule you can't stack need based aid. We also learned that people like you want to discount a player hitting a home run that got us a win.


It's the facilities stupid!

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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby Show Me » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:23 pm

winwave wrote:
Show Me wrote:So in conclusion. We've learned Tulane still hasn't done anything about not stacking need based aid. And 3 hits in 4 years is a real contribution.
:roll:


No we learned that by NCAA rule you can't stack need based aid. We also learned that people like you want to discount a player hitting a home run that got us a win.

You've learned. As by your need to start a new thread on this. Its always been known. Maybe you didn't know. It's always been why others get around the rule and Tulane can't.



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby McWave » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:28 pm

I learned that the last Tulane regime (prior to DP) screwed us up for 4 yrs. Explains getting a HC with recruiting expertise.



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby Show Me » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:33 pm

McWave wrote:I learned that the last Tulane regime (prior to DP) screwed us up for 4 yrs. Explains getting a HC with recruiting expertise.

I learned the guy better recruit to make up for his lack of coaching expertise.



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby winwave » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:38 pm

Show Me wrote:
winwave wrote:
Show Me wrote:So in conclusion. We've learned Tulane still hasn't done anything about not stacking need based aid. And 3 hits in 4 years is a real contribution.
:roll:


No we learned that by NCAA rule you can't stack need based aid. We also learned that people like you want to discount a player hitting a home run that got us a win.

You've learned. As by your need to start a new thread on this. Its always been known. Maybe you didn't know. It's always been why others get around the rule and Tulane can't.


That's absolutely not true. For years now people have told our fans that Tulane refused to stack need based aid. That is not Tulane's decision it is not allowed by NCAA rule. So for years we had fans lashing out at Tulane to just change the policy. People like you stated over and over that Tulane just wouldn't do it. Now its oh we were just saying they need to get around the rule. BS. In thread after thread you all claimed Tulane just refused to give need based aid to baseball players.


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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby Show Me » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:41 pm

What has Tulane done as others have done to overcome this not been able to stack need?
Reading TPS on this thread he points out why Tulane is not on an equal playing field. Can you at least see why people blame Tulane for not doing anything to help this?



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby Profoundwizard » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:52 pm

winwave wrote:
Profoundwizard wrote:Jesus, we don't have to pretend 3 hits and 17 at-bats over 4 seasons is a real contribution. If you're making that argument you're just being argumentative


He hit a home run that got us a win while playing for an injured Alemais. You can discount it but I won't.


Nobody is discounting that. The fact remains that he barely contributed



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby winwave » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:56 pm

Show Me wrote:What has Tulane done as others have done to overcome this not been able to stack need?
Reading TPS on this thread he points out why Tulane is not on an equal playing field. Can you at least see why people blame Tulane for not doing anything to help this?


That's not what was being discussed. The lie that Tulane refused to do it by their own choice is what the thread was about. I get that those that contributed to that want to change the narrative. Tulane does give money in addition to the baseball money. They don't give as much as others b/c they don't have the endowment that those others have. That's always been acknowledged.


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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby winwave » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:57 pm

Profoundwizard wrote:
winwave wrote:
Profoundwizard wrote:Jesus, we don't have to pretend 3 hits and 17 at-bats over 4 seasons is a real contribution. If you're making that argument you're just being argumentative


He hit a home run that got us a win while playing for an injured Alemais. You can discount it but I won't.


Nobody is discounting that. The fact remains that he barely contributed


He contributed to an important win a Regional season. We'll have to agree to disagree as to the nature of his contribution.


It's the facilities stupid!

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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby Bearwave » Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:57 pm

phpBB [video]


Bears are Ready to Rhule! Sic'em

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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby Show Me » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:27 pm

winwave wrote:
Show Me wrote:What has Tulane done as others have done to overcome this not been able to stack need?
Reading TPS on this thread he points out why Tulane is not on an equal playing field. Can you at least see why people blame Tulane for not doing anything to help this?


That's not what was being discussed. The lie that Tulane refused to do it by their own choice is what the thread was about. I get that those that contributed to that want to change the narrative. Tulane does give money in addition to the baseball money. They don't give as much as others b/c they don't have the endowment that those others have. That's always been acknowledged.

We'll have to disagree. It's always been why can't Tulane compete with its peers. The reason is high tuition. When need based stacking with baseball money is not allowed you have to find another way. Vandy and others have found ways. Tulane apparently has not. That's the blame being placed from what I've heard from others.



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby winwave » Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:08 pm

What was said for years here and the other site was that Tulane refused to stack need based aid. That was never true it turns out. The other things you now reference are another topic.


It's the facilities stupid!

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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby nowave » Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:26 pm

winwave wrote:
tpstulane wrote:
winwave wrote:
tpstulane wrote:Schools like Vandy, Stanford, and Rice have a decided advantage in baseball because of the gigantic endowments relative to size of student body, Tulane is not in that class. I've always said our high tuition really hurts us. In order to be permissible, a school can only offer aid to players on the same basis that it is offered to the entire student body. Otherwise, it would be against NCAA rules.
So Vanderbilt, Rice, and Stanford all give need based financial aid to every student enrolled - you basically pay only what you can afford. This allows them to draw from a pool of talent that Tulane just can't. Tulane has to spread the 11.7 scholarships around and then find kids whose parents can afford to pay that big tuition amount.
Not sure why need stacking isn't allowed but it really would help out high tuition private schools with a small endowment like Tulane. I was always told that stacking was only allowed for academic money and not need based. Just because it's a NCAA "tango" (if that's true? I'd like to see the NCAA link please on that) it still has a great impact on Tulane as compared to Vandy. Just about every Vandy player goes free. Jewett would not have to do much of anything to get kids in financially speaking. At Tulane he's going to have to find the 3 P's (Pass, Pay, and Play). Vandy only needs 2 P's (Pass and Play). That's where the biggest obstacle lies. And that's only compared to privates. Tulane is at a huge disadvantage when it comes to public's with lower tuition and lower academic admission requirements. Every year tuition went up it became that more difficult to make the 11.7 work. In our case need based stacking would have greatly helped in that regard. The complaints of the past were that Tulane refused to try to do something to bridge the rising tuition gap to better compete with those three privates. (One suggestion was to create minority scholarships like Rice has). But nothing in that area has been done at this point. Pierce had a difficult time navigating the financial aid part. At Rice it was no problem and at SHS it wasn't an issue. At Tulane he lost out on 3 quality players to FSU because of our high tuition. That's just 3 I know about. I'm sure they were more.
Rick Jones would be the first to tell you that his job was much easier when Tulane's tuition was $25,000 vs $50,000.


That's a long winded attempt to avoid the fact that you participated in misleading our fan base for years on this issue. Jewett was the recruiting coordinator at Vandy for 4 years and he's the HC here. He knows the rules. If you want to call him a liar go see him and tell him so. Everyone does not go to school free at places like Vandy. They just don't. Again stop misleading people. As for the lack of endowment everyone here is aware of that. Every job has its obstacles. It's the HC's job to figure it out. Just 4 years ago we had a class that many rave about but now they say we can't recruit. Sorry that doesn't add up.

Don't put words in my mouth. I asked a for a link. Never called anyone a liar. Never said everyone goes for free at Vandy. I've always said need based aid isn't stacked and you've just made my point. The bottom line is as tuition rose and rules changed over the years it just became more difficult to manage. Doesn't mean impossible. It's just less likely you can put together a top 20 class. Tulane promised but didn't do anything about it to help alleviate that burden. Jewett would happily tell you financially recruiting to Vandy is easier than financially recruiting to Tulane. It's a shame that any coach has to deal with this because they have enough on their plate already. They should be able to offer rather than negotiate scholarships.
Waiting for your link.
We already had this discussion here.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9581&p=161914&hilit=Baseball+scholarships#p161914
Watch this. Especially 36 second mark until the end.
Scott Kushner
phpBB [video]


Travis Jewett. 7:05mark but talks about the financial aspects starting at 19:58. Talks about needing kids that can play and afford it. Etc. Gave Troy the financial formula he needs to give us the best chance of getting back to Omaha.
phpBB [video]


You more than anyone has gone on these sites for years and told everyone that TULANE refused to allow need based aid to baseball players. That is the topic here. Turns out that's not true. The Head Baseball Coach at Tulane said it's not true. He said NCAA rules don't allow it. So you're either saying he's lying or too stupid to know the rules. Like I said above he was the recruiting coordinator for 4 years at Vandy, a private. He's now the HC at Tulane another private. He knows what he's talking about. As for the other pots of money no one has ever disagreed that the pots at Tulane are smaller. However players always have received money in addition to their baseball money. It is tougher at Tulane and we all wish it weren't so but it is. It always has been and always will be. That's the coaches job to figure out.

As for SK he was wrong on several things. Now that only 27 guys can get scholarship money most are getting close to 50% not 25%. Secondly the tuition is not 62k. It's about 20k less. He also is wrong when he says they give need based aid as we now know that isn't allowed.

As for Jewett I watched it when it first aired. He says there that he told his assistants not to feel bad for these families that they are going to pay some as they get a lot in return- the 4 for 40 mantra that schools like Tulane have used forever as a sales pitch. Let's hope he's successful with his approach.


actually, tuition is about $49 based on tulane's site but with fees and room & board, everything comes to about $70K/year.

pretty sure tulane still requires freshmen to live on campus so thats a hefty check to cut for a parent.

https://www2.tulane.edu/financialaid/co ... orical.cfm



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby winwave » Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:50 pm

As i have posted elsewhere a poster on the other site long ago debunked that larger figure. They have to live on campus but that figure includes a number of things .


It's the facilities stupid!

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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby Profoundwizard » Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:56 pm

winwave wrote:
Profoundwizard wrote:
winwave wrote:
Profoundwizard wrote:Jesus, we don't have to pretend 3 hits and 17 at-bats over 4 seasons is a real contribution. If you're making that argument you're just being argumentative


He hit a home run that got us a win while playing for an injured Alemais. You can discount it but I won't.


Nobody is discounting that. The fact remains that he barely contributed


He contributed to an important win a Regional season. We'll have to agree to disagree as to the nature of his contribution.

You're ridiculous. You just never back down from your argument no matter how wrong it is. 3 hits in 4 seasons is a nothing burger in terms of contributing. You know that, but you've already said otherwise and you just refuse to admit to being wrong about anything.



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby Show Me » Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:59 pm

What you're seeing is a fan committee member winwave carrying the AD's water pail. Nothing more. Someone has to cover for the coaching debacle.



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby Show Me » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:04 pm

Profoundwizard wrote:
winwave wrote:
Profoundwizard wrote:
winwave wrote:
Profoundwizard wrote:Jesus, we don't have to pretend 3 hits and 17 at-bats over 4 seasons is a real contribution. If you're making that argument you're just being argumentative


He hit a home run that got us a win while playing for an injured Alemais. You can discount it but I won't.


Nobody is discounting that. The fact remains that he barely contributed


He contributed to an important win a Regional season. We'll have to agree to disagree as to the nature of his contribution.

You're ridiculous. You just never back down from your argument no matter how wrong it is. 3 hits in 4 seasons is a nothing burger in terms of contributing. You know that, but you've already said otherwise and you just refuse to admit to being wrong about anything.

Add to the fact in 4 years we played well over 225 games in total. So 3 hits over that really "shows me" the facts.



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby Show Me » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:28 pm

Did some research and found this fact:
According to U.S. News & World Report, as of September 2014, 13 Division I institutions, minus Ivy League members, “claimed to meet 100 percent of demonstrated financial need for full-time, degree-seeking undergraduates in fall 2013.” Eleven of those universities are private, and three of them—Vanderbilt, Stanford and Rice—are regular contenders in the college baseball landscape. The two public universities on the list, Virginia and North Carolina, share the status of being giants in the sport.

What that proves is that they are not affected by stacking need base rules. They give 100% if need be. Tulane does not choose to do this.



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby chain gang x man » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:05 pm

Profoundwizard wrote:Jesus, we don't have to pretend 3 hits and 17 at-bats over 4 seasons is a real contribution. If you're making that argument you're just being argumentative

Maybe Matt didn't have the baseball stats to make him look like a contributor, but what he ment to the team in attitude cannot be measured
Matt always had a smile on his face and was the first guy out of the dugout whenever a teammate did something good. He never complained spending 3 years as the bullpen catcher a position he never played, like Jonathan Artigues this year.
Matt was on a legislative scholarship and actually lost it for one year and his parents dug into their pockets and paid $62,000.00 that year. His mom is a teacher and we know they aren't he highest paid in Louisiana
He thought about giving up baseball for his senior year but his mom persuaded him to finish. If he wouldn't have returned we lose his game winning home run. Which brings me to another point. Not many of you know that Matt was not on the travel list that weekend, even though he was the backup to Alemais. Jordan Gross( who didn't throw a pitch that year) was supposed to travel but his shoulder was acting up so Matt took his place. Alemais got hurt and Matt took his place. But that's only the beginning, Matt was due up second and Pierce told him if Dehart gets on his son Sean was going to pinch hit for Matt. Luckily Dehart didn't get on and Matt was so mad he swung as hard as he could and hit the game winning home run
So let's not judge contributions by results on the field



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby nowave » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:06 pm

winwave wrote:As i have posted elsewhere a poster on the other site long ago debunked that larger figure. They have to live on campus but that figure includes a number of things .


so the link I posted above to the tulane site that says that it costs almost $70K a year, including all fees, is a lie?



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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby tpstulane » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:12 pm

chain gang x man wrote:
Profoundwizard wrote:Jesus, we don't have to pretend 3 hits and 17 at-bats over 4 seasons is a real contribution. If you're making that argument you're just being argumentative

Maybe Matt didn't have the baseball stats to make him look like a contributor, but what he ment to the team in attitude cannot be measured
Matt always had a smile on his face and was the first guy out of the dugout whenever a teammate did something good. He never complained spending 3 years as the bullpen catcher a position he never played, like Jonathan Artigues this year.
Matt was on a legislative scholarship and actually lost it for one year and his parents dug into their pockets and paid $62,000.00 that year. His mom is a teacher and we know they aren't he highest paid in Louisiana
He thought about giving up baseball for his senior year but his mom persuaded him to finish. If he wouldn't have returned we lose his game winning home run. Which brings me to another point. Not many of you know that Matt was not on the travel list that weekend, even though he was the backup to Alemais. Jordan Gross( who didn't throw a pitch that year) was supposed to travel but his shoulder was acting up so Matt took his place. Alemais got hurt and Matt took his place. But that's only the beginning, Matt was due up second and Pierce told him if Dehart gets on his son Sean was going to pinch hit for Matt. Luckily Dehart didn't get on and Matt was so mad he swung as hard as he could and hit the game winning home run
So let's not judge contributions by results on the field

Wow. Great insight. So he actually lost his legislative scholarship and forked out $62,000 just to stay around. Thanks for sharing. I didn't mention names because each has his own story.


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Re: Truth about stacking-Finally

Postby chain gang x man » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:22 pm

tpstulane wrote:
chain gang x man wrote:
Profoundwizard wrote:Jesus, we don't have to pretend 3 hits and 17 at-bats over 4 seasons is a real contribution. If you're making that argument you're just being argumentative

Maybe Matt didn't have the baseball stats to make him look like a contributor, but what he ment to the team in attitude cannot be measured
Matt always had a smile on his face and was the first guy out of the dugout whenever a teammate did something good. He never complained spending 3 years as the bullpen catcher a position he never played, like Jonathan Artigues this year.
Matt was on a legislative scholarship and actually lost it for one year and his parents dug into their pockets and paid $62,000.00 that year. His mom is a teacher and we know they aren't he highest paid in Louisiana
He thought about giving up baseball for his senior year but his mom persuaded him to finish. If he wouldn't have returned we lose his game winning home run. Which brings me to another point. Not many of you know that Matt was not on the travel list that weekend, even though he was the backup to Alemais. Jordan Gross( who didn't throw a pitch that year) was supposed to travel but his shoulder was acting up so Matt took his place. Alemais got hurt and Matt took his place. But that's only the beginning, Matt was due up second and Pierce told him if Dehart gets on his son Sean was going to pinch hit for Matt. Luckily Dehart didn't get on and Matt was so mad he swung as hard as he could and hit the game winning home run
So let's not judge contributions by results on the field

Wow. Great insight. So he actually lost his legislative scholarship and forked out $62,000 just to stay around. Thanks for sharing. I didn't mention names because each has his own story.

Yes the year he was not on scholarship he had forgotten an assignment and had to pay around $200.00. His mother told him what's another $200.00 we're already paying $62,000.00



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