AAC Expansion

The main discussion board for everything Tulane athletics related.
Aberzombie1892
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mbawavefan12 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
If Wichita State doesn't dominate its OOC schedule, the AAC (without winning the conference tourney) and become an NCAA tourney staple, it will have a net negative effect for the conference since the NCAA tourney is the only real value Wichita state brings and splitting money further without adding a significant amount of new money won't be good.
Not true IMO.

1) they put 10k butts in the seats and only a few less when not winning. Thus they pay their coach top line money. So even if the current coach left they will still have the money to hire a great replacement and can sell a great situation

2) they only need to make the tourney every 2-3 years as that will pay for their allotment from the AAC.

3) most importantly they will at a min be a middle of the range AAC school thus helping to solidify the leagues RPI even on off years. They will never be a bottom feeder like Tulane, USF, ECU which kills the league and the top team's RPI's. They r in one of the most fertile recruiting areas as well and have built up the program for the long term. Hell they might be top 15 coming into next year with a potential all american.
The AAC does not need another middle of the range program at this point in time. The conference currently has plenty of teams that bounce between being middle of the range and good (UConn/Memphis/Temple/etc.). It's true that Wichita State may help some in the RPI department, but, if it isn't dominating the AAC but not winning the AAC tourney, it isn't going to affect the NCAA tourney bids for the AAC, and that's ultimately the whole point of this exercise. Speaking of RPI, it needs to be considered that in some seasons, Wichita State may not have been invited to the NCAA tourney in some years if it hadn't won its conference tourney. If it joins the AAC and wins the conference tourney, it will be taking a spot in the NCAA tournament that would otherwise go to an existing AAC team (except for scenarios like this year when a top 25 AAC team wins the AAC tourney).

If Wichita just takes a NCAA spot that would otherwise go to another AAC team by winning the conference tourney, what's the point of adding it, and, if Wichita cannot dominate the conference in order to get an at large bid and it ends up being a "middle of the range" AAC program, what's the point in adding it? The whole point of adding it is the NCAA tourney.
golfnut69 wrote: Please list the schools you would have merge, taking into consideration TV Markets, W/L's, Academics, University Leadership and Potential
Removing Tulane bias and acknowledging that it wouldn't be perfect: BYU, Army, Navy, Air Force, SDSU, Boise State, Houston, Cincinnati, USF, and UConn, and Memphis for the first 11 and then argue it out among the remaining schools (UNLV/Colorado State/Tulane/etc.). Looking at the first 11, there's been some darn good football played over the last 5 years - of that group, only maybe 3 programs have not produced at least 1 10 win season in the last 5 seasons and the ones that did not produce a season of that caliber still have had a 8+ win season or been ranked (aside from UConn). In addition, each of those programs could reach a point where they could consistently field a decent football team due to offense/defensive schemes, religious loyalty, brand recognition, and access to recruits. As a note, for a truly "national" conference that will attempt to slot itself above the other conferences, geographical bias needs to be avoided in the sense that you don't want multiple teams in the same state since they will frequently be competing with each other for the same recruits.


DfromCT
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golfnut69 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
If Wichita State doesn't dominate its OOC schedule, the AAC (without winning the conference tourney) and become an NCAA tourney staple, it will have a net negative effect for the conference since the NCAA tourney is the only real value Wichita state brings and splitting money further without adding a significant amount of new money won't be good.
Not true IMO.

1) they put 10k butts in the seats and only a few less when not winning. Thus they pay their coach top line money. So even if the current coach left they will still have the money to hire a great replacement and can sell a great situation

2) they only need to make the tourney every 2-3 years as that will pay for their allotment from the AAC.

3) most importantly they will at a min be a middle of the range AAC school thus helping to solidify the leagues RPI even on off years. They will never be a bottom feeder like Tulane, USF, ECU which kills the league and the top team's RPI's. They r in one of the most fertile recruiting areas as well and have built
up the program for the long term. Hell they might be top 15 coming into next year with a potential all american.
Fertile Recruiting....I just looked at the roster...only three from Kansas...the rest are from Texas, VA, FLA, NJ, Arkansas
So they're good enough to recruit both locally and nationally. Not a bad characteristic, IMHO.
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golfnut69
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DfromCT wrote:
golfnut69 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
If Wichita State doesn't dominate its OOC schedule, the AAC (without winning the conference tourney) and become an NCAA tourney staple, it will have a net negative effect for the conference since the NCAA tourney is the only real value Wichita state brings and splitting money further without adding a significant amount of new money won't be good.
Not true IMO.

1) they put 10k butts in the seats and only a few less when not winning. Thus they pay their coach top line money. So even if the current coach left they will still have the money to hire a great replacement and can sell a great situation

2) they only need to make the tourney every 2-3 years as that will pay for their allotment from the AAC.

3) most importantly they will at a min be a middle of the range AAC school thus helping to solidify the leagues RPI even on off years. They will never be a bottom feeder like Tulane, USF, ECU which kills the league and the top team's RPI's. They r in one of the most fertile recruiting areas as well and have built
up the program for the long term. Hell they might be top 15 coming into next year with a potential all american.
Fertile Recruiting....I just looked at the roster...only three from Kansas...the rest are from Texas, VA, FLA, NJ, Arkansas
So they're good enough to recruit both locally and nationally. Not a bad characteristic, IMHO.
D....I was questioning why the post previous to mine, noted that Kansas was/is a fertile recruiting ground.....they have 16 kids listed and if I remember correctly 6 are from JC's or Prep Schools...how fertile is that ?...Being "able" to recruit is one thing...having a "fertile recruiting ground" is a whole 'nother matter
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mbawavefan12
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golfnut69 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:
golfnut69 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
If Wichita State doesn't dominate its OOC schedule, the AAC (without winning the conference tourney) and become an NCAA tourney staple, it will have a net negative effect for the conference since the NCAA tourney is the only real value Wichita state brings and splitting money further without adding a significant amount of new money won't be good.
Not true IMO.

1) they put 10k butts in the seats and only a few less when not winning. Thus they pay their coach top line money. So even if the current coach left they will still have the money to hire a great replacement and can sell a great situation

2) they only need to make the tourney every 2-3 years as that will pay for their allotment from the AAC.

3) most importantly they will at a min be a middle of the range AAC school thus helping to solidify the leagues RPI even on off years. They will never be a bottom feeder like Tulane, USF, ECU which kills the league and the top team's RPI's. They r in one of the most fertile recruiting areas as well and have built
up the program for the long term. Hell they might be top 15 coming into next year with a potential all american.
Fertile Recruiting....I just looked at the roster...only three from Kansas...the rest are from Texas, VA, FLA, NJ, Arkansas
So they're good enough to recruit both locally and nationally. Not a bad characteristic, IMHO.
D....I was questioning why the post previous to mine, noted that Kansas was/is a fertile recruiting ground.....they have 16 kids listed and if I remember correctly 6 are from JC's or Prep Schools...how fertile is that ?...Being "able" to recruit is one thing...having a "fertile recruiting ground" is a whole 'nother matter
It's about access (for the league) to the Kansas Bball market, in the same way that people want Tulane for access to the NOLA/LA market.
mbawavefan12
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Aberzombie1892 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
If Wichita State doesn't dominate its OOC schedule, the AAC (without winning the conference tourney) and become an NCAA tourney staple, it will have a net negative effect for the conference since the NCAA tourney is the only real value Wichita state brings and splitting money further without adding a significant amount of new money won't be good.
Not true IMO.

1) they put 10k butts in the seats and only a few less when not winning. Thus they pay their coach top line money. So even if the current coach left they will still have the money to hire a great replacement and can sell a great situation

2) they only need to make the tourney every 2-3 years as that will pay for their allotment from the AAC.

3) most importantly they will at a min be a middle of the range AAC school thus helping to solidify the leagues RPI even on off years. They will never be a bottom feeder like Tulane, USF, ECU which kills the league and the top team's RPI's. They r in one of the most fertile recruiting areas as well and have built up the program for the long term. Hell they might be top 15 coming into next year with a potential all american.
The AAC does not need another middle of the range program at this point in time. The conference currently has plenty of teams that bounce between being middle of the range and good (UConn/Memphis/Temple/etc.). It's true that Wichita State may help some in the RPI department, but, if it isn't dominating the AAC but not winning the AAC tourney, it isn't going to affect the NCAA tourney bids for the AAC, and that's ultimately the whole point of this exercise. Speaking of RPI, it needs to be considered that in some seasons, Wichita State may not have been invited to the NCAA tourney in some years if it hadn't won its conference tourney. If it joins the AAC and wins the conference tourney, it will be taking a spot in the NCAA tournament that would otherwise go to an existing AAC team (except for scenarios like this year when a top 25 AAC team wins the AAC tourney).

If Wichita just takes a NCAA spot that would otherwise go to another AAC team by winning the conference tourney, what's the point of adding it, and, if Wichita cannot dominate the conference in order to get an at large bid and it ends up being a "middle of the range" AAC program, what's the point in adding it? The whole point of adding it is the NCAA tourney.
golfnut69 wrote: Please list the schools you would have merge, taking into consideration TV Markets, W/L's, Academics, University Leadership and Potential
Removing Tulane bias and acknowledging that it wouldn't be perfect: BYU, Army, Navy, Air Force, SDSU, Boise State, Houston, Cincinnati, USF, and UConn, and Memphis for the first 11 and then argue it out among the remaining schools (UNLV/Colorado State/Tulane/etc.). Looking at the first 11, there's been some darn good football played over the last 5 years - of that group, only maybe 3 programs have not produced at least 1 10 win season in the last 5 seasons and the ones that did not produce a season of that caliber still have had a 8+ win season or been ranked (aside from UConn). In addition, each of those programs could reach a point where they could consistently field a decent football team due to offense/defensive schemes, religious loyalty, brand recognition, and access to recruits. As a note, for a truly "national" conference that will attempt to slot itself above the other conferences, geographical bias needs to be avoided in the sense that you don't want multiple teams in the same state since they will frequently be competing with each other for the same recruits.
Middle of the road is WSU's floor at this point. They would enter the AAC with the highest paid coach, perhaps best player, top3 attendance, top3 facilities and highest national ranking. MWC schools are not leaving as yet, in fact we were essentially rejected by their top two schools a few years ago.
WSU had trouble with bids cause their conference RPI stunk, hence the reason they want to leave. One would think the AAC would help them to be even better overall, the thought is that they would help add bids not subtract. Accepting them would cost AAC teams next to nothing and add plenty of benefits. Getting them next year could be huge as they are projected to be a top 10 team, where two NCAA wins would have them pay for themselves for 5 years.

"Wichita State has qualified for six consecutive NCAA tournaments, reaching the Final Four in 2013 and the Sweet 16 in 2006, 2013, and 2015. The school has advanced past the first round in five straight tournaments."
Aberzombie1892
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mbawavefan12 wrote:Middle of the road is WSU's floor at this point. They would enter the AAC with the highest paid coach, perhaps best player, top3 attendance, top3 facilities and highest national ranking. MWC schools are not leaving as yet, in fact we were essentially rejected by their top two schools a few years ago.
WSU had trouble with bids cause their conference RPI stunk, hence the reason they want to leave. One would think the AAC would help them to be even better overall, the thought is that they would help add bids not subtract. Accepting them would cost AAC teams next to nothing and add plenty of benefits. Getting them next year could be huge as they are projected to be a top 10 team, where two NCAA wins would have them pay for themselves for 5 years.

"Wichita State has qualified for six consecutive NCAA tournaments, reaching the Final Four in 2013 and the Sweet 16 in 2006, 2013, and 2015. The school has advanced past the first round in five straight tournaments."
Well, there are a lot of assumptions being made about Wichita State's performance in the AAC.

Glancing at WSU's regular season performance from this season, there is a high chance that they would not have made the NCAA tourney had they lost to Illinois State in the MVC tourney championship game. WSU went 30-4 pre-NCAA tourney, with 140 SOS (total) and 32 RPI. Further, they lost to all 3 of the teams they played in the regular season that were selected to the NCAA tournament, leaving them with a 3-4 total record against top 100 teams (2 wins over Illinois State, a win over Colorado State, a loss to Illinois State, and losses to Louisville, Michigan State, and Oklahoma State). What stands out more is that their OOC-only schedule was ranked 164. Given that that is the case, it seems likely that their resume was not a NCAA midmajor at large bid resume had they not won their conference tournament even though they were nationally ranked.

The AAC had SMU (RPI 13 and SOS 85), Cincinnati (RPI 17 and SOS 72), Houston (RPI 54 and SOS 79), and UCF (RPI 69 and SOS 99) as top 100 teams this season and it's unclear whether a 32 RPI and 140 SOS Wichita State and instantly be the class of the AAC conference since its RPI was largely built on beating terrible MVC teams.
mbawavefan12
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Aberzombie1892 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:Middle of the road is WSU's floor at this point. They would enter the AAC with the highest paid coach, perhaps best player, top3 attendance, top3 facilities and highest national ranking. MWC schools are not leaving as yet, in fact we were essentially rejected by their top two schools a few years ago.
WSU had trouble with bids cause their conference RPI stunk, hence the reason they want to leave. One would think the AAC would help them to be even better overall, the thought is that they would help add bids not subtract. Accepting them would cost AAC teams next to nothing and add plenty of benefits. Getting them next year could be huge as they are projected to be a top 10 team, where two NCAA wins would have them pay for themselves for 5 years.

"Wichita State has qualified for six consecutive NCAA tournaments, reaching the Final Four in 2013 and the Sweet 16 in 2006, 2013, and 2015. The school has advanced past the first round in five straight tournaments."
Well, there are a lot of assumptions being made about Wichita State's performance in the AAC.

Glancing at WSU's regular season performance from this season, there is a high chance that they would not have made the NCAA tourney had they lost to Illinois State in the MVC tourney championship game. WSU went 30-4 pre-NCAA tourney, with 140 SOS (total) and 32 RPI. Further, they lost to all 3 of the teams they played in the regular season that were selected to the NCAA tournament, leaving them with a 3-4 total record against top 100 teams (2 wins over Illinois State, a win over Colorado State, a loss to Illinois State, and losses to Louisville, Michigan State, and Oklahoma State). What stands out more is that their OOC-only schedule was ranked 164. Given that that is the case, it seems likely that their resume was not a NCAA midmajor at large bid resume had they not won their conference tournament even though they were nationally ranked.

The AAC had SMU (RPI 13 and SOS 85), Cincinnati (RPI 17 and SOS 72), Houston (RPI 54 and SOS 79), and UCF (RPI 69 and SOS 99) as top 100 teams this season and it's unclear whether a 32 RPI and 140 SOS Wichita State and instantly be the class of the AAC conference since its RPI was largely built on beating terrible MVC teams.
We have 11 teams, rounding out to 12 would be helpful and cost very little. A-10 teams don't seem to want the hassle of moving to the conference so WSU is the next best option by a long shot. The fact is that this is a low risk move for a team that draws well and invests in their program and provides access to a solid recruiting area. Not to mention their current league's exit costs are zero so they can come in next year after returning their entire roster and a team ranked in every poll (some top 10). I don't really see the down side. I mean they legit will be favorites to win the league in year 1, that is meaningful.

Over the past three years they have beat: Tulsa (2), LSU, Oklahoma, Dayton, UNLV, Utah, Nevada, Vandy, Arizona, Memphis, Seton Hall, Saint Louis, Alabama, Indiana and Kansas. That is a lot better than most AAC schools and the thought process is that AAC membership will only help them as now they will have more money and every game will be on ESPN. They also have billionaire donors who have gone so far as to put their name on their gym.

In the end it seems like a done deal so it really doesn't matter at this point.
DfromCT
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WSU is 12-6 in the NCAA tournament since 2006. They've been to the Final Four, the Elite 8, and the Sweet 16 4 times. They have a string of 6 consecutive years in the tournament. That's a whole lot better than most of the AAC. And don't think that it would not have been a factor had their 20 game winning streak come to an end in their conference tournament final. I'm not guaranteeing they would have been invited, but recent tournament history without a doubt counts for something with the committee.

And who the heck is Tulane (fans) to complain about ANY athletic program being admitted to the AAC?
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DfromCT wrote:WSU is 12-6 in the NCAA tournament since 2006. They've been to the Final Four, the Elite 8, and the Sweet 16 4 times. They have a string of 6 consecutive years in the tournament. That's a whole lot better than most of the AAC. And don't think that it would not have been a factor had their 20 game winning streak come to an end in their conference tournament final. I'm not guaranteeing they would have been invited, but recent tournament history without a doubt counts for something with the committee.

And who the heck is Tulane (fans) to complain about ANY athletic program being admitted to the AAC?

Now that last part might be the best point that anyone on this forum has posted in quite some time.
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winwave
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Welcome aboard.
BAYWAVE&Sophandros are SPINELESS COWARDS
YOU NEED LEVERAGE TO BE PROACTIVE!
Small time facilities for small time programs
6-4-23:Now all of the mistakes Tulane has made finally catches up with them as they descend to CUSAAC.
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BAYWAVE&Sophandros are SPINELESS COWARDS
YOU NEED LEVERAGE TO BE PROACTIVE!
Small time facilities for small time programs
6-4-23:Now all of the mistakes Tulane has made finally catches up with them as they descend to CUSAAC.
greenie78
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I just hope the AAC doesn't over expand like the old Big East and old WAC did before which led to the disintegration of both conferences. It makes sense to add them for basketball only.
winwave
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Aresco is well aware of the problems with going down that road and he talked directly about that issue yesterday. I don't think we have to worry about that. BTW, they are added for all sports though they don't have football.
BAYWAVE&Sophandros are SPINELESS COWARDS
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Small time facilities for small time programs
6-4-23:Now all of the mistakes Tulane has made finally catches up with them as they descend to CUSAAC.
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greenie78 wrote:I just hope the AAC doesn't over expand like the old Big East and old WAC did before which led to the disintegration of both conferences. It makes sense to add them for basketball only.
Some will argue that the bridge too far in the overexpansion of the Big East was the addition of Tulane. Fair or not the results of the Tulane athletic department have done nothing except give credence to that argument.
DfromCT
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Jaxwave wrote:
greenie78 wrote:I just hope the AAC doesn't over expand like the old Big East and old WAC did before which led to the disintegration of both conferences. It makes sense to add them for basketball only.
Some will argue that the bridge too far in the overexpansion of the Big East was the addition of Tulane. Fair or not the results of the Tulane athletic department have done nothing except give credence to that argument.
The Big East was already breaking up well ahead of the decision to add Tulane. 7 schools had already left the conference since the turn of the century and Louisville would announce their departure the day after Tulane accepted an invite. The "Catholic 7" split off less than two weeks later.

But I see your point, particularly with the last sentence. At the same time, the Catholic 7 had decided well before the BE admitted Tulane, that they were breaking off. The 7 schools that did not field football teams felt that they had to share a disproportionate amount of basketball revenues with the others, and that they could form the basis of a very good basketball conference. And they did!

WSU doesn't field a D1 football team, so they're being added for all sports except football

You are right, Tulane has been a bottom feeder in the AAC.
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welcome, Memphis State of Kansas...this, in my ever so humble opinion, is a bad choice...unless there is the name of a State, in front of the word "state" it is, in the minds of the media, small time and of no national value...no matter, the record posted...then again, I am a Tulane Fan who has zero right to bitch or complain based on the overall terrible management and performance of the Athletic Dept and its on field teams...the exceptions being Bowling and my personal favorite and best uni's Sand volleyball !!!!
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BAYWAVE&Sophandros are SPINELESS COWARDS
YOU NEED LEVERAGE TO BE PROACTIVE!
Small time facilities for small time programs
6-4-23:Now all of the mistakes Tulane has made finally catches up with them as they descend to CUSAAC.
Wavetime
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mbawavefan12 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
If Wichita State doesn't dominate its OOC schedule, the AAC (without winning the conference tourney) and become an NCAA tourney staple, it will have a net negative effect for the conference since the NCAA tourney is the only real value Wichita state brings and splitting money further without adding a significant amount of new money won't be good.
Not true IMO.

1) they put 10k butts in the seats and only a few less when not winning. Thus they pay their coach top line money. So even if the current coach left they will still have the money to hire a great replacement and can sell a great situation

2) they only need to make the tourney every 2-3 years as that will pay for their allotment from the AAC.

3) most importantly they will at a min be a middle of the range AAC school thus helping to solidify the leagues RPI even on off years. They will never be a bottom feeder like Tulane, USF, ECU which kills the league and the top team's RPI's. They r in one of the most fertile recruiting areas as well and have built up the program for the long term. Hell they might be top 15 coming into next year with a potential all american.
The AAC does not need another middle of the range program at this point in time. The conference currently has plenty of teams that bounce between being middle of the range and good (UConn/Memphis/Temple/etc.). It's true that Wichita State may help some in the RPI department, but, if it isn't dominating the AAC but not winning the AAC tourney, it isn't going to affect the NCAA tourney bids for the AAC, and that's ultimately the whole point of this exercise. Speaking of RPI, it needs to be considered that in some seasons, Wichita State may not have been invited to the NCAA tourney in some years if it hadn't won its conference tourney. If it joins the AAC and wins the conference tourney, it will be taking a spot in the NCAA tournament that would otherwise go to an existing AAC team (except for scenarios like this year when a top 25 AAC team wins the AAC tourney).

If Wichita just takes a NCAA spot that would otherwise go to another AAC team by winning the conference tourney, what's the point of adding it, and, if Wichita cannot dominate the conference in order to get an at large bid and it ends up being a "middle of the range" AAC program, what's the point in adding it? The whole point of adding it is the NCAA tourney.
golfnut69 wrote: Please list the schools you would have merge, taking into consideration TV Markets, W/L's, Academics, University Leadership and Potential
Removing Tulane bias and acknowledging that it wouldn't be perfect: BYU, Army, Navy, Air Force, SDSU, Boise State, Houston, Cincinnati, USF, and UConn, and Memphis for the first 11 and then argue it out among the remaining schools (UNLV/Colorado State/Tulane/etc.). Looking at the first 11, there's been some darn good football played over the last 5 years - of that group, only maybe 3 programs have not produced at least 1 10 win season in the last 5 seasons and the ones that did not produce a season of that caliber still have had a 8+ win season or been ranked (aside from UConn). In addition, each of those programs could reach a point where they could consistently field a decent football team due to offense/defensive schemes, religious loyalty, brand recognition, and access to recruits. As a note, for a truly "national" conference that will attempt to slot itself above the other conferences, geographical bias needs to be avoided in the sense that you don't want multiple teams in the same state since they will frequently be competing with each other for the same recruits.
Middle of the road is WSU's floor at this point. They would enter the AAC with the highest paid coach, perhaps best player, top3 attendance, top3 facilities and highest national ranking. MWC schools are not leaving as yet, in fact we were essentially rejected by their top two schools a few years ago.
WSU had trouble with bids cause their conference RPI stunk, hence the reason they want to leave. One would think the AAC would help them to be even better overall, the thought is that they would help add bids not subtract. Accepting them would cost AAC teams next to nothing and add plenty of benefits. Getting them next year could be huge as they are projected to be a top 10 team, where two NCAA wins would have them pay for themselves for 5 years.

"Wichita State has qualified for six consecutive NCAA tournaments, reaching the Final Four in 2013 and the Sweet 16 in 2006, 2013, and 2015. The school has advanced past the first round in five straight tournaments."

All this is true. But they are not a member in football. I hope we are not going down the old Big East road. It's a dead end!! Just not a good move in my opinion.
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Wavetime wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
If Wichita State doesn't dominate its OOC schedule, the AAC (without winning the conference tourney) and become an NCAA tourney staple, it will have a net negative effect for the conference since the NCAA tourney is the only real value Wichita state brings and splitting money further without adding a significant amount of new money won't be good.
Not true IMO.

1) they put 10k butts in the seats and only a few less when not winning. Thus they pay their coach top line money. So even if the current coach left they will still have the money to hire a great replacement and can sell a great situation

2) they only need to make the tourney every 2-3 years as that will pay for their allotment from the AAC.

3) most importantly they will at a min be a middle of the range AAC school thus helping to solidify the leagues RPI even on off years. They will never be a bottom feeder like Tulane, USF, ECU which kills the league and the top team's RPI's. They r in one of the most fertile recruiting areas as well and have built up the program for the long term. Hell they might be top 15 coming into next year with a potential all american.
The AAC does not need another middle of the range program at this point in time. The conference currently has plenty of teams that bounce between being middle of the range and good (UConn/Memphis/Temple/etc.). It's true that Wichita State may help some in the RPI department, but, if it isn't dominating the AAC but not winning the AAC tourney, it isn't going to affect the NCAA tourney bids for the AAC, and that's ultimately the whole point of this exercise. Speaking of RPI, it needs to be considered that in some seasons, Wichita State may not have been invited to the NCAA tourney in some years if it hadn't won its conference tourney. If it joins the AAC and wins the conference tourney, it will be taking a spot in the NCAA tournament that would otherwise go to an existing AAC team (except for scenarios like this year when a top 25 AAC team wins the AAC tourney).

If Wichita just takes a NCAA spot that would otherwise go to another AAC team by winning the conference tourney, what's the point of adding it, and, if Wichita cannot dominate the conference in order to get an at large bid and it ends up being a "middle of the range" AAC program, what's the point in adding it? The whole point of adding it is the NCAA tourney.
golfnut69 wrote: Please list the schools you would have merge, taking into consideration TV Markets, W/L's, Academics, University Leadership and Potential
Removing Tulane bias and acknowledging that it wouldn't be perfect: BYU, Army, Navy, Air Force, SDSU, Boise State, Houston, Cincinnati, USF, and UConn, and Memphis for the first 11 and then argue it out among the remaining schools (UNLV/Colorado State/Tulane/etc.). Looking at the first 11, there's been some darn good football played over the last 5 years - of that group, only maybe 3 programs have not produced at least 1 10 win season in the last 5 seasons and the ones that did not produce a season of that caliber still have had a 8+ win season or been ranked (aside from UConn). In addition, each of those programs could reach a point where they could consistently field a decent football team due to offense/defensive schemes, religious loyalty, brand recognition, and access to recruits. As a note, for a truly "national" conference that will attempt to slot itself above the other conferences, geographical bias needs to be avoided in the sense that you don't want multiple teams in the same state since they will frequently be competing with each other for the same recruits.
Middle of the road is WSU's floor at this point. They would enter the AAC with the highest paid coach, perhaps best player, top3 attendance, top3 facilities and highest national ranking. MWC schools are not leaving as yet, in fact we were essentially rejected by their top two schools a few years ago.
WSU had trouble with bids cause their conference RPI stunk, hence the reason they want to leave. One would think the AAC would help them to be even better overall, the thought is that they would help add bids not subtract. Accepting them would cost AAC teams next to nothing and add plenty of benefits. Getting them next year could be huge as they are projected to be a top 10 team, where two NCAA wins would have them pay for themselves for 5 years.

"Wichita State has qualified for six consecutive NCAA tournaments, reaching the Final Four in 2013 and the Sweet 16 in 2006, 2013, and 2015. The school has advanced past the first round in five straight tournaments."

All this is true. But they are not a member in football. I hope we are not going down the old Big East road. It's a dead end!! Just not a good move in my opinion.
WT- you need to read the linked article. Aresco makes it clear the AAC is not going down that path.
Last edited by winwave on Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
BAYWAVE&Sophandros are SPINELESS COWARDS
YOU NEED LEVERAGE TO BE PROACTIVE!
Small time facilities for small time programs
6-4-23:Now all of the mistakes Tulane has made finally catches up with them as they descend to CUSAAC.
DfromCT
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Wavetime wrote: All this is true. But they are not a member in football. I hope we are not going down the old Big East road. It's a dead end!! Just not a good move in my opinion.
If the conference goes to hell in an handbasket, it will be the Tulane's of the conference, not WSU's that lead the way. We stink. They dont.
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DfromCT
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Having WSU in the conference will help ALL teams with the RPI. (BTW: A big complaint of the "Catholic 7" was that adding Tulane would bring down their RPI and they were VERY right.) WSU has been better than most teams in the conference over the last 5-10 years in terms of RPI and post season performances. Yes, some AAC teams finished a year higher, but year to year WSU has been a consistent top 25 program (and recently top 10) program despite their weak schedule.

I think they'll come into the AAC and dominate for at least the next few years. The only reasons they would not would be dominant would be directly tied to recruiting to the conference and lack of exposure. But the AAC has a slightly higher profile than the MVC. And, of course, if their coach decided to go elsewhere, that would be a big blow to the Shockers.
" If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day.." Jimmy V
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DfromCT wrote:
Wavetime wrote: All this is true. But they are not a member in football. I hope we are not going down the old Big East road. It's a dead end!! Just not a good move in my opinion.
If the conference goes to hell in an handbasket, it will be the Tulane's of the conference, not WSU's that lead the way. We stink. They dont.
I would argue that if the conference collapses, it will be because the best teams in the conference aren't very good and not because the worst teams of the conference are very bad. The idea is every conference has its best teams, average teams, and below average teams but the best teams in the conference generally make up for the below average teams.

In AAC football, USF (P5 on schedule - Illinois), UCF (Maryland and GaTech), Navy (Independents Notre Dame and Army*), and Memphis (UCLA) are probably going to lead the way in some form or another and Houston (Arizona and Texas Tech) and SMU (TCU) are likely to follow. Obviously, there is some opportunity here for meaningful wins (but not like in 2016 - esp. with USF's schedule), but whether those AAC teams win none/some/most/all of those games will impact the viewership and reputation of the AAC. Sure, it's possible that AAC teams not in that group will have signature wins, but it's unlikely unless a notable upset occurs - Cincinnati (Michigan), Temple (Notre Dame and Army*), ECU (West Virginia, VaTech, and BYU), UConn (Virginia, Missouri, and BC), Tulsa (Oklahoma State), and Tulane (Oklahoma). To be honest, Tulane could go 0-12 and it likely wouldn't affect the perception of the conference that much, but, if USF lost to Illinois and won the AAC, it would make the conference look terrible.

*Posters can knock Army if they want to, but Army beat the AAC East and West champs in 2016.

In AAC basketball, SMU and Cincinnati are going to lead the way as usual with likely Wichita State, Houston, UCF, Temple and Tulsa to follow. To be honest, if the AAC can pull NCAA 3 bids next year from that group, it will be a more bids than its received from 2 of the past 3 years, and, as we all know, the number of bids a conference receives impacts how third parties view the conference. Some people would argue that its Tulane's fault that the conference didn't get more teams into the NCAA last year, but I would argue that more fault lies with Memphis, UConn, Tulsa and Temple - programs expected to play above average basketball - playing average/below average basketball. Speaking of Memphis and UConn, they appear to be in disarray, so AAC fans shouldn't expect much from them next season unless there is a big turnaround.

http://dailycampus.com/stories/2017/4/3 ... basketball
http://www.cbssports.com/college-basket ... -one-year/

Side note, in regard to Wichita State, we will be able to see just how good they are in the fall and determine whether they are the product of a weak schedule or whether they are the real deal.
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UConn recruiting has taken a HUGE hit since the split of the AAC/Big East. Tulane isn't the cause of that, but is certainly a factor. We have to open our eyes and make SIGNIFICANT changes as a result of our bottom feeding status. Right now we're like the Tulane programs that were still in the SEC after the decision to de-emphasize athletics. We can't be a bottom feeder indefinitely; it's time to sh!t or get off the pot.
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DfromCT wrote:UConn recruiting has taken a HUGE hit since the split of the AAC/Big East. Tulane isn't the cause of that, but is certainly a factor. We have to open our eyes and make SIGNIFICANT changes as a result of our bottom feeding status. Right now we're like the Tulane programs that were still in the SEC after the decision to de-emphasize athletics. We can't be a bottom feeder indefinitely; it's time to sh!t or get off the pot.
I agree 100% that Tulane needs to do better, but, while it works on that, there is no reason that the AAC can't be a lot better than it currently is at basketball and football. With 2 NCAA tourney bids in each 2017 and 2015 along with two back-to-back horrendous FBS bowl seasons, there is significant room for improvement. I also fear that historically good basketball programs like UConn, Memphis, Temple, etc. are beginning to feel the impact of not being in a P5 since they seem to be struggling and it seems as though the P5/P6 (Big East) distinction wasn't as big of a deal in basketball until relatively recently. To phrase it differently, the AAC has 4 of the top 25 NCAA MBB programs with the highest winning percentage (all time), but it certainly doesn't feel like it (memphis, cincinnati, Uconn, and temple).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t ... basketball
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