Lisa Stockton

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winwave
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Stockton gets an extension through 2020-2021:

http://tulanegreenwave.com/news/2016/10 ... ath=wbball


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No brainer imho
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So I understand this might be divisive to some. Lisa has been an above average coach at TU and a class act. But, she is reportedly being paid over $500k a year which is basically at or above the average for a P5 program and let's just say TU does not have that sort of cash for a women's Bball coach. That's a joke salary for Tulane. She made the tourney her first nine years, never getting past the second round. In the last decade she has made the tourney twice all while getting a premium G5 salary at a school that sells maybe 500 tics per game (probably less).

Look, women's Bball, good or bad, adds basically no brand value to Tulane. The diehards follow it but no one else. I would rather pay someone half or less to run the program and use the left over on the sports that actually matter. Just my opinion.
Aberzombie1892
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mbawavefan12 wrote:So I understand this might be divisive to some. Lisa has been an above average coach at TU and a class act. But, she is reportedly being paid over $500k a year which is basically at or above the average for a P5 program and let's just say TU does not have that sort of cash for a women's Bball coach. That's a joke salary for Tulane. She made the tourney her first nine years, never getting past the second round. In the last decade she has made the tourney twice all while getting a premium G5 salary at a school that sells maybe 500 tics per game (probably less).

Look, women's Bball, good or bad, adds basically no brand value to Tulane. The diehards follow it but no one else. I would rather pay someone half or less to run the program and use the left over on the sports that actually matter. Just my opinion.
It's extraordinarily unlikely that she makes a guaranteed salary over $500K. According to the Oct. 2015 (2 years old) article below, if Tulane is paying her over $500K, she would be making more than the WBB coaches at all of the below programs, controlling for changes since 2015:
Iowa
Minnesota
Maryland
Michigan
Michigan State
Illinois
Wisconsin
Indiana

http://www.btpowerhouse.com/2015/10/4/9 ... he-big-ten
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She obviously makes a good salary and I thought to some degree that was driven by the "influence" of Title IX and let's say a strict application of labor law ("equal pay for equal work.") Yes attendance is small for WBB but it's horrible for men so you can't rely on that as a reason for the disproportionate pay between MBB and WBB coaches. Also AAC TV money for MBB does not dwarf WBB money like say at a Big Ten school.

Wimbledon tennis gave equal prizes for men and women partially based on women's tv ratings being the same or better than men and no difference in attendance. Obviously none of that is true in WBB except at UConn and Auriemma is very highly paid.

I'm not trying to start a massive controversy here. Just some perspective on why Stockton may be earning a relatively generous salary. More importantly. I don't care what she makes. We just need to keep improving the program and results.
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She's won more games than any coach currently at the school. Maybe more than any other coach except possibly Rick Jones. She's been to the tournament I believe 10 times and has won many conference titles.

What's the problem?
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Most of those were early in her career. Many feel like rather than getting better since entering the conference they have let others catch and surpass them. You don't get to retire on the job. If you are going to take the check you have to produce. She should be on the hot seat.
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mbawavefan12
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Wavetime wrote:She's won more games than any coach currently at the school. Maybe more than any other coach except possibly Rick Jones. She's been to the tournament I believe 10 times and has won many conference titles.

What's the problem?
So just give her a blank check then.
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mbawavefan12 wrote:
Wavetime wrote:She's won more games than any coach currently at the school. Maybe more than any other coach except possibly Rick Jones. She's been to the tournament I believe 10 times and has won many conference titles.

What's the problem?
So just give her a blank check then.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm trying to make the point that she has earned her salary which is P5 market value. We all aspire to be included in the P5, heck, her program has beaten P5's left and right for more than a decade.....
Aberzombie1892
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Does anyone have any sources that indicate that her salary isn't in the $250-399k range? It seems odd to claim that she makes a solid B1G WBB coach salary at Tulane without support for that.

As for her performance, is she bad enough to make it worth it for cash strapped Tulane to fire her, give her and her assistants a buyout, increase the salary pool and roll the dice with hiring a replacement? It doesn't seem like it - especially for a non-revenue sport.
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nawlinspete
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Wavetime wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Wavetime wrote:She's won more games than any coach currently at the school. Maybe more than any other coach except possibly Rick Jones. She's been to the tournament I believe 10 times and has won many conference titles.

What's the problem?
Cliff Wells.

So just give her a blank check then.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm trying to make the point that she has earned her salary which is P5 market value. We all aspire to be included in the P5, heck, her program has beaten P5's left and right for more than a decade.....
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She's the best and most successful coach Tulane has had this century from the major sports. Yes, they don't draw, and yes, the team has not made the step to the next level. But women's basketball under Lisa has been WAY more successful than anything the men's team has done or the football team has done. You can argue baseball, but our CWS appearances are far behind us, and we went through a drought of not even making the CUSA tourney. And reality is that WBB is, nationally, at worst on par with NCAA baseball. Is she making as much as Jewitt (or Pierce)? I think not.

And oh by the way: The most exciting sports moment at Tulane this decade was Tulane's 3 point loss to UConn. I'd trade a win in that spot over a 9 win football season (neither happens often.)

Every year Lisa puts a competitive team on the court. She'd have another job (and probably higher profile) within a week of leaving Tulane.
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mbawavefan12
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DfromCT wrote:She's the best and most successful coach Tulane has had this century from the major sports. Yes, they don't draw, and yes, the team has not made the step to the next level. But women's basketball under Lisa has been WAY more successful than anything the men's team has done or the football team has done. You can argue baseball, but our CWS appearances are far behind us, and we went through a drought of not even making the CUSA tourney. And reality is that WBB is, nationally, at worst on par with NCAA baseball. Is she making as much as Jewitt (or Pierce)? I think not.

And oh by the way: The most exciting sports moment at Tulane this decade was Tulane's 3 point loss to UConn. I'd trade a win in that spot over a 9 win football season (neither happens often.)

Every year Lisa puts a competitive team on the court. She'd have another job (and probably higher profile) within a week of leaving Tulane.
My argument really has nothing to do with Lisa's success. I just don't see why Tulane would be paying P5 money for a women's basketball coach. Every extra penny we have should go to Fball and Bball, baseball is largely self sustainanble with ticket sales and booster support. I mean we are already seeing the penny pinching at Yulman yet we are go to pay B12 type money to our women's Bball coach?

As far as national relevancy compared to baseball, that's not really pertinent. Around NOLA women's Bball is totally irrelevant and baseball is very very relevant. So if baseball and WBball on on par nationally and thus TU should spend like a P5, then should Uconn pay their baseball coach the same as Tulane?

A successful women's Bball program at Tulane really adds very little to the undergrad experience IMO. There are some who enjoy it, but even when we made the tourney no one showed up for games (other than UConn of course). Using the fluke UConn game this year is sort of weak as well as that was a huge outlier and the team then went on to cave.

I guess it is moot as she has an extension and thus a buyout (though I would like to see the numbers). I guess my point is we need to prioritize the two main sports. Those two sports will be the things the B12 and ACC would want. I mean look at UConn, their WBall has been absurdly dominant and they still reside in the lowly G5 status.
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Leave Lisa alone...can't u see she is hampered by poor facilities, high academic standards, low recruiting budget, I don't blame her one bit for getting as much money as she can, considering the shortfalls in both facilities and University/Athletic leadership(?)
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We are still overlooking the fact that it's unlikely that she makes more than $400K.

The below article from 2015 indicates that both Texas Tech and Oklahoma State paid their WBB coaches $375K or less that year with Kansas, Kansas State, and WVU paying their coaches between $505-525K.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college ... nelly-more
mbawavefan12
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Aberzombie1892 wrote:We are still overlooking the fact that it's unlikely that she makes more than $400K.

The below article from 2015 indicates that both Texas Tech and Oklahoma State paid their WBB coaches $375K or less that year with Kansas, Kansas State, and WVU paying their coaches between $505-525K.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college ... nelly-more
True, I was going off of comments from last year on either this board or the other, nothing substantiated. I really wouldn't be surprised however, as she has been at TU for so long.

I don;t want to berate this issue. I think she might be very overpaid (or better said TU cannot afford to pay her so much), others do not.
Last edited by mbawavefan12 on Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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DfromCT wrote: And oh by the way: The most exciting sports moment at Tulane this decade was Tulane's 3 point loss to UConn. I'd trade a win in that spot over a 9 win football season (neither happens often.)
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait a cotton-pickin' minute! I'd trade anything short of a National Championship in WBB and even that in any other women's sport for a nine-win football season and I don't think I'm alone here.
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mbawavefan12 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:We are still overlooking the fact that it's unlikely that she makes more than $400K.

The below article from 2015 indicates that both Texas Tech and Oklahoma State paid their WBB coaches $375K or less that year with Kansas, Kansas State, and WVU paying their coaches between $505-525K.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college ... nelly-more
True, I was going off of comments from last year on either this board or the other, nothing substantiated. I really wouldn't be surprised however, as she has been at TU for so long.

I don;t want to berate this issue. I think she might be very overpaid (or better said TU cannot afford to pay her so much), others do not.
Well, her general salary range would likely factor into whether she is overpaid. If she is paid more than $400K, I would agree with you that she may be being paid too much, however, if she is paid under $400K, I believe that she is doing in adequate job given (1) how much money she is being paid, (2) her performance, and (3) the risks of firing her and replacing her with a new coach.

(3) is particularly interesting because what if she is fired and replaced with a coach that isn't as good? Would Tulane have to buyout that coach and try again with another new hire? That strategy is fine for revenue sports (MBB and FB), but I'm not sure it makes sense for a non-revenue sport where the coach isn't doing a bad job at a G5 university that has limited resources (beyond the low tv payout).
mbawavefan12
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Aberzombie1892 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:We are still overlooking the fact that it's unlikely that she makes more than $400K.

The below article from 2015 indicates that both Texas Tech and Oklahoma State paid their WBB coaches $375K or less that year with Kansas, Kansas State, and WVU paying their coaches between $505-525K.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college ... nelly-more
True, I was going off of comments from last year on either this board or the other, nothing substantiated. I really wouldn't be surprised however, as she has been at TU for so long.

I don;t want to berate this issue. I think she might be very overpaid (or better said TU cannot afford to pay her so much), others do not.
Well, her general salary range would likely factor into whether she is overpaid. If she is paid more than $400K, I would agree with you that she may be being paid too much, however, if she is paid under $400K, I believe that she is doing in adequate job given (1) how much money she is being paid, (2) her performance, and (3) the risks of firing her and replacing her with a new coach.

(3) is particularly interesting because what if she is fired and replaced with a coach that isn't as good? Would Tulane have to buyout that coach and try again with another new hire? That strategy is fine for revenue sports (MBB and FB), but I'm not sure it makes sense for a non-revenue sport where the coach isn't doing a bad job at a G5 university that has limited resources (beyond the low tv payout).
I just don't think anyone cares either way, win or lose. Sorry to sound like a jerk. Like when people complained about volleyball, like turning around that program has meant anything to TU. The only people who care are parents and diehards on the two sites. IDK. I freely admit, though I want them to win at TU, women's Bball is horrendous.

I legit would have no problem paying a WBball coach $150k, win or lose.
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DfromCT wrote:And oh by the way: The most exciting sports moment at Tulane this decade was Tulane's 3 point loss to UConn.
:-?

What?

Just of the top of my head: we won a conference championship in baseball last year, went to a bowl game a few years ago - hell, we had a tennis player win the national championship.

but the most exciting sports moment was a regular season conference loss at home
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ajcalhoun wrote:
DfromCT wrote: And oh by the way: The most exciting sports moment at Tulane this decade was Tulane's 3 point loss to UConn. I'd trade a win in that spot over a 9 win football season (neither happens often.)
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Wait a cotton-pickin' minute! I'd trade anything short of a National Championship in WBB and even that in any other women's sport for a nine-win football season and I don't think I'm alone here.
I will agree to disagree. If Tulane WBB ended the longest winning streak in the history of NCAA basketball (men's or women's), that's something to hang your hat on for a century. I'd easily trade that for a 9 win football season (which is accomplished by about 20-25 schools EVERY YEAR.

It didn't happen, and probably won't. But hypotheticals are fun!

And I would be shocked if Lisa is making anywhere near the $$ being brandied about here. My bet is $250k-300k tops.
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msdos wrote:
DfromCT wrote:And oh by the way: The most exciting sports moment at Tulane this decade was Tulane's 3 point loss to UConn.
:-?

What?

Just of the top of my head: we won a conference championship in baseball last year, went to a bowl game a few years ago - hell, we had a tennis player win the national championship.

but the most exciting sports moment was a regular season conference loss at home
Yes to a team that's won over 100 consecutive games, and only THREE in the streak by less than 10 points. Sorry, but I found it more exciting than winning a baseball conference title, or the tennis championship by a single player that nobody can name. AND 100x more exciting than going to a BS bowl game on the heels of a mediocre, at best, season.
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Stockton is a great coach. She gets the most out of her players.
That said:
1)Her facilities are not poor; heck the practice facility was basically built for her; 2)the demographics in the women's sports are different than the men's - i.e. with limited professional opportunities, what scares people from Tulane in men's hoops doesn't in women's. 3)She recruits the same type of player year after year - small guards who are moderately recruited and who, presumably, can shoot. We haven't had quality size in years. We haven't recruited any. 4)in terms of talent, we probably around 6th or 7th in the AAC. Teams like SMU and UCF probably have passed us up, or will soon, in talent. 6)The recruiting has not improved since joining the AAC; it should have. 6)Recently, there have been 2 strange transfers. Her best freshman last year transferred out; a freshman center this year transferred out before Christmas.
Once again, she is a great coach.
But I don't think an uptick in recruiting intensity is too much to ask, especially considering the massive job/salary security that Tulane has consistently provided.
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I don't think Lisa Stockton is paid what is describe here. Not for profits like Tulane file an IRS 990 Form (Return of Organizational Exempt From Income Tax). Tulane University's (aka The Administers of the Tulane Educational Fund) 2014 Form 990 lists the 17 highest paid employees. The only coach (CJ) is listed earning $1,445,000. The lowest earner listed earned $255,000. So I assume LS earned less than that in 2014. But additional revenue may come from outside sources.
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