Wave loses a tough one to Navy 21-14

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RobertM320
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Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:33 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:Navy was 5-12 passing, so they really can't pass either. So we're back to Wave 755's point, they had a senior, we had a freshman. In future games, that'll be different, but in this one, neither team could pass.
On the same number of passing attempts, Navy's QB threw for more than twice as many yards as Brantley did, and Brantley was at 25% accuracy while Navy's QB was at 41%. Neither was great, but it would be unfair to Navy's QB to lump them together and just say they both sucked, as Tulane might have been able to win if Brantley's accuracy was in the ~40% range.
On such a small, sample, a single drop changes it from 25%-33%. So because the Navy QB completed one more pass, it makes him so much better? He had only 59 yards passing, and only attempted one pass in the second half. I never said Brantley didn't suck, but if Navy ends up having to win a game on Worth's passing, they're just as screwed as we are.


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Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:41 pm

tpstulane wrote:
wavemania wrote:Without a passing game, it will be hard for Tulane to win many more games. We may be in most because of the great defensive players we have. But the D is not coached as wll as last year. Should have kept Lionel in some capacity. Brantley would make one heck of a RB, but if he cant get his passes down, he will be another Qb like Brandon Harris.
Yes. Teams will press with 9 in the box.
If ULaLa stacks the box they'll probably win. The OL really isn't that good. Defense can only hang on so long.
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Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:44 pm

Here's a rather lengthy list of personal observations of yesterday's game. Read or ignore at your own peril:
  • Tailgating was once more stifled by the threat of rain. So far, there hasn't been an opportunity for the pre-game atmosphere which was so exciting to see and experience last year.
  • I thought the band playing on the quad yesterday was crazy good. Too bad there were only a handful of people to enjoy them.
  • There were a trainload of Navy fans who made the trip. Sec 21 was probably 40-50% Navy and Gold in the second half. I went out of my way to thank as many as I could for making the trip to New Orleans. I also smilingly encouraged them to spend a lot of money as the city needed it.
  • The young Navy men and women in their dress whites are a courteous and respectful group. When entering the LBC, they all immediately removed their hats. At the stadium, they stood for the pre-game playing of the Tulane alma mater. At the end of the game the Navy team quietly and respectfully assembled behind our team near the student end zone for the traditional closing alma mater.
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  • The full-field American flag, the singing of the national anthem by the Victory Belles and the fighter jet flyover would give anyone goose bumps. I didn't see a single person sitting during the playing of the anthem this week. Last week, there were probably 10-15 folks in my section who sat and talked during the anthem. I don't think they were protesting anthing, but were simply boorish, disrespectful louts.
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  • A very respectful moment was spent acknowledging Mr. Murphy Neal Jones, the Tulane grad and football standout who was shot down on a bombing mission in Viet Nam and spent over 6 years in captivity. The game was momentarily delayed while everyone (and I mean everyone) gave him a standing ovation. God bless him.
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  • Our band is getting bigger and better. Several years ago, they were a bit of an embarassment. Now I am proud of them and impressed by their performances. I do wish they would get off the 'Saints Come Marching In' number. It's a bit trite and is better left to that winless black and gold team. The Shock Wave are also dramatically improved and have much better...ah.. talent than they did a couple years back. Rock On girls!
  • Our all-green uniforms made us look like the Geico lizard from TV commercial fame. I'm sure some liked it, but not me.
  • I've never seen such blatant and uncalled pass interference plays. What a game changer those calls might have been. I still don't understand why EVERYTHING is not reviewable. Give each coach one challenge per game which he can use on ANYTHING (offsides, 12 men on the field, holding, etc.) If his challenge is upheld, he keeps the challenge flag. The purpose of replay and challenges is to get everything right. RIGHT??
  • Boy, can Brantley run. I expect to see him continue to improve. His passing yesterday was so poor, I held my breath each time he dropped back to throw. I was hoping to see more of Glen C. I think it did a disservice to Glen to put him in the game cold for the last two plays.
  • What's up with all the cramping in the second half? I didn't see any Navy players go down with cramps, but there must have been 4 or 5 Tulane players affected. What is different about their conditioning that prepared them so much better?
  • I've read some of the criticism here of Coach Fritz. I'm shaking my head. I was a big Curtis Johnson fan, but I believe we would have lost both the WF and Navy game by 2-3 TDs had CJ and his staff been here. There's probably an Alabama forum where 'experts' are documenting the many shortfalls of Saban.
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Sun Sep 18, 2016 6:49 pm

I'm honestly not sure how we ended up on the topic of Navy's QB. His performance has nothing to do with Tulane's offensive issues and has more to do with his abilities and the quality of the defenses that he faces, and, fortunately for Tulane, Tulane defense seems fine a quarter of the way through the regular season. That being said, given the close nature of the Navy/Tulane game, a couple more completed passes could have made the difference (Navy's QB had 2 more completions for an additional 38 yards). Also remember that issues with passing extend beyond just the QB - we all knew going into the fall that Tulane's O-line wasn't the best as well.

This isn't a Fritz criticism - it's just where the team is right now. It's going to take a least a season to get things up to speed.
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Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:08 pm

sader24 wrote:I'm not bashing the offense or offensive scheme, I'm not bashing the defense. I'm bashing the decision making in critical times in our two losses. He put brad well in in game 1 against wf with the ball inside the 40. He routinely doesn't get Hilliard enough touches who is a Matt Forte clone. He called a long pass tonight bc he set it up all game long. He's proven to be a much better disciplinarian and coach than CJ, but his in game instincts and management have cost us 2 games IMO.
That's fair. But when a leader/coach has no good options to choose from, easy to second guess after the fact.
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Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:37 pm

GreenLantern wrote: There's probably an Alabama forum where 'experts' are documenting the many shortfalls of Saban.
Nick Saban for his first year in 2007 at ‘Bama went 6-6 for the regular season including a very humiliating 21-14 defeat at Tuscaloosa to UL-Monroe (yes, the cupcake ate the Crimson Tide :o ). He is now the undisputed "High Priest" of Div. 1 football.

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Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:54 pm

it could be worse !!!!..>we could be Notre Dame...they actually had expectations !!!
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Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:34 pm

jonathanjoseph wrote:
sader24 wrote:I'm not bashing the offense or offensive scheme, I'm not bashing the defense. I'm bashing the decision making in critical times in our two losses. He put brad well in in game 1 against wf with the ball inside the 40. He routinely doesn't get Hilliard enough touches who is a Matt Forte clone. He called a long pass tonight bc he set it up all game long. He's proven to be a much better disciplinarian and coach than CJ, but his in game instincts and management have cost us 2 games IMO.
That's fair. But when a leader/coach has no good options to choose from, easy to second guess after the fact.


The option was very clear at that point, get the ball to Hilliard and don't throw the ball with Brantley in that situation. A quick TD puts us up 8 and doesn't secure the game anyway. The risk/reward on that call made no sense. When you run an option style attack you have to stay on schedule. That means 2nd and 9 and above is your worst enemy. You want 2nd and 4-7. Anyone and I mean anyone who watched the game in its entirety could see that letting Brantley throw the ball there was foolish for numerous reasons. Is this team more well coached than last years?? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean those two decisions in the two games were not poor decisions. When you choose to play this style of football you have to stay on schedule and you have to be a very good game manager. I have no problem playing this style of football if it leads to wins, but it has to lead to wins. I doubt im the only guy here who has seen Tulane teams lose winnable games in the past. Well we just lost two winnable games and I'm sick of it.
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Sun Sep 18, 2016 9:34 pm

I don't disagree with Sader at all but a day after the tough loss I'm feeling confident we'll be in a bowl game after predicting 5 wins before the season started. Things are improving.
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Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:32 pm

sader24 wrote:
jonathanjoseph wrote:
sader24 wrote:I'm not bashing the offense or offensive scheme, I'm not bashing the defense. I'm bashing the decision making in critical times in our two losses. He put brad well in in game 1 against wf with the ball inside the 40. He routinely doesn't get Hilliard enough touches who is a Matt Forte clone. He called a long pass tonight bc he set it up all game long. He's proven to be a much better disciplinarian and coach than CJ, but his in game instincts and management have cost us 2 games IMO.
That's fair. But when a leader/coach has no good options to choose from, easy to second guess after the fact.


The option was very clear at that point, get the ball to Hilliard and don't throw the ball with Brantley in that situation. A quick TD puts us up 8 and doesn't secure the game anyway. The risk/reward on that call made no sense. When you run an option style attack you have to stay on schedule. That means 2nd and 9 and above is your worst enemy. You want 2nd and 4-7. Anyone and I mean anyone who watched the game in its entirety could see that letting Brantley throw the ball there was foolish for numerous reasons. Is this team more well coached than last years?? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean those two decisions in the two games were not poor decisions. When you choose to play this style of football you have to stay on schedule and you have to be a very good game manager. I have no problem playing this style of football if it leads to wins, but it has to lead to wins. I doubt im the only guy here who has seen Tulane teams lose winnable games in the past. Well we just lost two winnable games and I'm sick of it.
Fair again, but it's also fair to suggest that Willie Fritz's system is proven to win games at a high rate. That the games were winnable given the QB situation is non trivial.
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Sun Sep 18, 2016 11:10 pm

golfnut69 wrote:it could be worse !!!!..>we could be Notre Dame...they actually had expectations !!!
And, like Tulane, if they could tackle, they'd be 3-0.
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 6:04 am

DfromCT wrote:
golfnut69 wrote:it could be worse !!!!..>we could be Notre Dame...they actually had expectations !!!
And, like Tulane, if they could tackle, they'd be 3-0.
While walking my "Lab" last evening a gentleman was walking his "Lab" as well...he had a Michigan State Shirt on, we spoke about the game and he said it is always good to beat ND and that beating ND just made Texas' win that more trivial....
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:09 am

golfnut69 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:
golfnut69 wrote:it could be worse !!!!..>we could be Notre Dame...they actually had expectations !!!
And, like Tulane, if they could tackle, they'd be 3-0.
While walking my "Lab" last evening a gentleman was walking his "Lab" as well...he had a Michigan State Shirt on, we spoke about the game and he said it is always good to beat ND and that beating ND just made Texas' win that more trivial....
Texas made their own win trivial by losing to Cal. :D
"ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE! HANG EM AND BANG EM! HANG EM AND BANG EM!"-- Todd Graffagnini
golfnut69
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:43 am

RobertM320 wrote:
golfnut69 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:
golfnut69 wrote:it could be worse !!!!..>we could be Notre Dame...they actually had expectations !!!
And, like Tulane, if they could tackle, they'd be 3-0.
While walking my "Lab" last evening a gentleman was walking his "Lab" as well...he had a Michigan State Shirt on, we spoke about the game and he said it is always good to beat ND and that beating ND just made Texas' win that more trivial....
Texas made their own win trivial by losing to Cal. :D
Yep....now all of the Fire Charlie's, have something to yell about !!! ..I can't wait for the "Hire Art's' of the world, to come out of the woodwork
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:56 am

Why we lost:

1. #21 cannot tackle
2. Brantley lobbed every pass like when we were kids and played street football.
3. Their QB owned us all night. There was one play where he literally plowed through and ran directly over one of our defenders.
4. We were gassed and sucking wind and cramping. THIS WAS THE MOST DISAPPOINTING FOR ME. We live and practice down here in the South. This should have never happened. Either we are not conditioned, or there was a major lapse in the nutrition plan for this week. Some won't like this, but we need to practice as much as we can outside and stay out of the Saints facility, unless absolutely necessary. No excuses for this one.
5. Officiating left a lot to be desired.
6. So did some of the play calling. It was really shitty to put Cuiellette in for literally the last play of the game when passing is an absolute must. He should have been in for at least that whole last drive, if not more.

But this is football, and at the end of the day, good teams find ways to win. And we didn't.
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:00 am

jonathanjoseph wrote:
sader24 wrote:
jonathanjoseph wrote:
sader24 wrote:I'm not bashing the offense or offensive scheme, I'm not bashing the defense. I'm bashing the decision making in critical times in our two losses. He put brad well in in game 1 against wf with the ball inside the 40. He routinely doesn't get Hilliard enough touches who is a Matt Forte clone. He called a long pass tonight bc he set it up all game long. He's proven to be a much better disciplinarian and coach than CJ, but his in game instincts and management have cost us 2 games IMO.


Fritz is sort of in a catch 22. He can't recruit receivers and qbs if he doesn't throw it. Is it better in the long run for recruits to see what he wants to be on offense? Or turn the pass oriented players away by being exactly what the negative recruiters say we are? Tough situation.

That's fair. But when a leader/coach has no good options to choose from, easy to second guess after the fact.


The option was very clear at that point, get the ball to Hilliard and don't throw the ball with Brantley in that situation. A quick TD puts us up 8 and doesn't secure the game anyway. The risk/reward on that call made no sense. When you run an option style attack you have to stay on schedule. That means 2nd and 9 and above is your worst enemy. You want 2nd and 4-7. Anyone and I mean anyone who watched the game in its entirety could see that letting Brantley throw the ball there was foolish for numerous reasons. Is this team more well coached than last years?? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean those two decisions in the two games were not poor decisions. When you choose to play this style of football you have to stay on schedule and you have to be a very good game manager. I have no problem playing this style of football if it leads to wins, but it has to lead to wins. I doubt im the only guy here who has seen Tulane teams lose winnable games in the past. Well we just lost two winnable games and I'm sick of it.
Fair again, but it's also fair to suggest that Willie Fritz's system is proven to win games at a high rate. That the games were winnable given the QB situation is non trivial.
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:21 am

Eaglewave wrote:
wave97 wrote:What are you all looking at? Navy is not a good football team.
I saw the same game you saw. We should have beat Weak Forrest and Navy. Both games were winnable.

This is an easy schedule and we still can find a away to win 5 more games. We just need to find some offense from somewhere. Our offensive line is terrible and has been since 2012. I hope Fritz finds a plan.
At the beginning of the season I had Wake as a "won't win", Navy as a "can win", and Southern as a "should win".

We are mostly on track with that. I had ULL as a "should win." Let's take care of business Saturday.

But I might move Memphis to "can't win", and I think opportunities to get to 6 wins are shrinking. Many of the teams we all think are beatable are on the road; and road wins are very tough to come by in college football unless you are significantly better than the other team. And where does the offense come from?
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:36 am

OUG wrote:At the beginning of the season I had Wake as a "won't win", Navy as a "can win", and Southern as a "should win".

We are mostly on track with that. I had ULL as a "should win." Let's take care of business Saturday.

But I might move Memphis to "can't win", and I think opportunities to get to 6 wins are shrinking. Many of the teams we all think are beatable are on the road; and road wins are very tough to come by in college football unless you are significantly better than the other team. And where does the offense come from?
Agreed 100%. If Tulane doesn't win both ULL and UMass, 6 wins would be almost impossible without some major upsets/injuries to our opponents. I would also consider moving Tulsa to can't win as well - any team that can keep 2016 Ohio State's offense from scoring touchdowns for 35+ minutes of game time is the real deal (Tulsa only allowed field goals and defensive TDs during that time), and, plus, the game is @Tulsa.
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:37 am

NOLABigSteve wrote:Why we lost:

1. #21 cannot tackle
2. Brantley lobbed every pass like when we were kids and played street football.
3. Their QB owned us all night. There was one play where he literally plowed through and ran directly over one of our defenders.
4. We were gassed and sucking wind and cramping. THIS WAS THE MOST DISAPPOINTING FOR ME. We live and practice down here in the South. This should have never happened. Either we are not conditioned, or there was a major lapse in the nutrition plan for this week. Some won't like this, but we need to practice as much as we can outside and stay out of the Saints facility, unless absolutely necessary. No excuses for this one.
5. Officiating left a lot to be desired.
6. So did some of the play calling. It was really shitty to put Cuiellette in for literally the last play of the game when passing is an absolute must. He should have been in for at least that whole last drive, if not more.

But this is football, and at the end of the day, good teams find ways to win. And we didn't.
Steve,

I agree with all of that except giving Brantley the bulk of the blame in Number 2. He was under fire all day and it was from no help from our O-line. Our O-line should have been blowing Navy off the ball. We outweighed them by at least 50+ pounds, but that did not happen. I thought most of our O-line troubles was because maybe our O-line was just bad at pass protection, maybe they're more run blockers, but they can't even run block real well either. I do think they're improving, but I would have liked to see more progress from Wake to Navy. We have the same damn problems by our O-line. They have trouble picking up assignments on blitzers and ID'ing the Mike that's about to get a free shot at Brantley with a delayed blitz. Another problem I see is that our line struggles mightily on stunts. When the d-line stunts, it's like our O-line just enrolled in Advanced Calculus and forget who/how to pick-up pass rushers.

Given the O-line troubles, and the fact that Brantley hasn't had much time to prep as the driver of the TU program, I think he has shown a lot of potential and his ceiling, to me, seems like it is a lot higher than GC. We just need to get him to a more polished passer, which if he can toss around 5k+ yards in Texas high school football, I think WF can problem turn him into a diamond.

I am uploading the videos today and hopefully will have some footage from the game up soon. Happy Monday, Roll Wave! BEAT THE CAJUNS.
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:38 am

at this point the only "offensve" thing Tulane can do is stop using toothpaste, mouthwash and deodorant
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:54 am

NOLABigSteve wrote:Why we lost:

1. #21 cannot tackle
2. Brantley lobbed every pass like when we were kids and played street football.
1. On the reverse 3 and 12 when Navy picked up the first down, number 21 was the only player in position to make a tackle. He met the ball carrier 5 yards before the sticks and he did some sort alligator arm motion at the ball as the runner went right by him. Me and my brother saw that and were pissed! Hopefully the coaches are seeing that right now and chewing his ass out. But number 23 was far worst. He was doing a good job all night of getting to the pitch man in the backfield but not once did he make a tackle. He was eventually replaced by Shenall/Harper and didn't see the field again.

2. He has absolutely no zip on any passes. He was constantly throwing too high on open recievers and on the non pass interference call completely underthrew Mouney. Had he led him the db wouldn't have had a chance to run into our guy.
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:43 am

Our O-line was much bigger than Navy's D-line

Image

student section had an ok turnout. Notice the clock and the score, TU 14- Navy 13, going into the 4th with students still cheering.

Image

I am not sure how to embed videos, but here's the link to the play right before we scored to take the lead 14-13. Sadly this was the only video that didn't corrupt. There will be more this Saturday.

phpBB [video]
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:03 pm

waveclem wrote:
NOLABigSteve wrote:Why we lost:

1. #21 cannot tackle
2. Brantley lobbed every pass like when we were kids and played street football.
1. On the reverse 3 and 12 when Navy picked up the first down, number 21 was the only player in position to make a tackle. He met the ball carrier 5 yards before the sticks and he did some sort alligator arm motion at the ball as the runner went right by him. Me and my brother saw that and were pissed! Hopefully the coaches are seeing that right now and chewing his ass out. But number 23 was far worst. He was doing a good job all night of getting to the pitch man in the backfield but not once did he make a tackle. He was eventually replaced by Shenall/Harper and didn't see the field again.

2. He has absolutely no zip on any passes. He was constantly throwing too high on open recievers and on the non pass interference call completely underthrew Mouney. Had he led him the db wouldn't have had a chance to run into our guy.

1. Totally missed #23. Most likely because I had my eye on #21.

2. Exactly. Rushed in the pocket or not, his passing was not good. I almost wondered if he had a jammed finger or some sort of injury preventing him from gripping the ball correctly. Something was definitely off with his passing.
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:06 pm

Also, I did think we would be a little better defending the option, since our offense runs it, and that's what we practice against. But on defense, our pitch man was no where to be found half the time. Defending the option is all about assignment. Hell, when we had the pitch man, we were taught to tackle him if he had the ball or not.
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Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:27 pm

Here's the details in the box score: TU- 14 NAVY-21

Time of Possession:
TU:28:54 Navy:31:06

First Downs:
TU:14 Navy:21

Total yards of Offense:
TU:261 Navy:346

Rushing:
TU: 240 Navy: 287
Hilliard- 16 carries for 96 yards and 1 td. Long run of the day for 36 yards
Rounds- 11 carries for 75 yards and 1 td. Long run of the day for 18 yards
Brantley- 10 for 29 yards. Long run of 26 yards for the day
Encalade- 2 for 23 yards
Thompson- 6 for 20 yards, long of 8 yards
GC- 2 carries for -2 yards

Passing:
TU: 3/12 for 21 yards
Hilliard 2 catches for 16 yards
Breaux 1 catch for 5 yards

Navy: 5/12 for 56 yards

Turnovers: TU +2
TU:0
Navy:2

3rd down Efficiency:
TU: 3-12 ************************** bad day for TU moving the chains --> just like sader and OUG stated about option football and being on schedule
Navy: 9-14

Penalties:
TU: 9 for 71 yards *************bad day in terms of playing discpline football
Navy: 3 for 30 yards

ST:
1 missed FG by DiRocco from 45 yards --> just didn't strike the ball well. The snap, the hold was good.
Punting: Mr. Block had 5 punts for a total net of 201 yards, about 40 per punt.
*****I still have a big gripe here. We only have 1 kick returner in the back field during kick offs, and if we face a decent kicker like Southern's, they will just kick opposite of where our returner is standing. This happened at Southern a few times, and we were lucky against Navy that their kicker didn't have much control/placement.
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