Is watching this team better or worse than watching the Bob Toledo 2011 team?

[GreenGears]

I think that right now is worse, but maybe my pain just fades with time! Thoughts? I don't remember in 2011 the complaining by the coaches and the players about how it just isn't fair with our opponents/the leagues talent level.

[breaker]

Either way the product is painfully unwatchable. I do have to say its better watching with 5,000 in Yulman than with 5,000 in the dome.

[mbawavefan12]

A little worse simply because we heard about a new commitment and spent $70mm+ on a new stadium. In addition, we are closer and closer to re-alignment and our previous conference mates (Memphis, Houston etc.) are all improving.

[OUG]

This team would beat the 2011 team by three touchdowns. Seriously.

That isn't to say that CJ has improved us measurably, just that 2011's team had completely quit on both sides of the ball. UConn would have beaten that team by 4 TDs easily, imo.

[Ernie McCracken]

It's a wash. The 2011 team beat SE and UAB before quitting on the season. The 2015 team beat Maine and 0-10 UCF. At least the 2011 team could score.

[Bham Wave]

It think 2011 would beat 2015 in a pillow fight. A Toledo "special play" would be the difference.

[OUG]

It's a wash. The 2011 team beat SE and UAB before quitting on the season. The 2015 team beat Maine and 0-10 UCF. At least the 2011 team could score.

We all hate to admit it because it seems like it is throwing CJ a lifeline, but the fact is that our October schedule did include 4 teams that are currently in the top 25, three of them on the road. 2011 was a much, much weaker schedule. We lost 45-6 to freaking Army (3-9 that year). We lost 44-7 to freaking UTEP (5-7) AT HOME. We lost 33-17 to Memphis (2-10) at HOME. We lost to Houston at home 73-17.

We got blown out by bad teams that year. I would argue that Houston this year is better than Houston in 2011, and that team disemboweled us. The SoS in 2011 according to Sagarin was #110. The SoS so far in 2015 is #39.

Before any of the usual suspects argue that I'm making excuses for 2015, I'm not. In year 4, we should be more competitive than we are. But that 2015 team was just SO bad against SUCH HORRIBLE teams. It really isn't even a question.

And I genuinely do think that this team has the talent to compete, if they were coached properly. That 2011 team had neither the talent nor the coaching to be competitive with a significantly worse schedule. Bob Toledo's team was that bad, don't kid yourselves. I also think this team hasn't quit, they just are strangled by a horrible offensive system that puts too much pressure and wear/tear on what is actually a very capable defense.

[Ernie McCracken]

A CJ Tulane team would lose to a Toledo Tulane team. No doubt in my mind.

And the Dome was better. Perfect conditions to throw the football.

[GreenGears]

I think this team is worse. You can look through rose colored glass and try and find talent in the players and moral victories in score differentials. We don't have a professional level coaching staff. We need a coaching staff that can take kids out of highschool and develop them into grown men. The best players on our teams play as freshman and then plateau at the talent level that they came in at. We have 36 pages on Tanner Lee, who seems to be the same kid he was three years ago. This board argues about whether or not Tanner Lee is talented but it is clear that if the kid does have talent, no one has developed him.

[JerseyWave]

Worst Tulane offense I have ever seen in 2015!

Before anyone knocks Toledo's recruiting, here's a list of players he brought to Tulane that made NFL rosters:

Ryan Grant
Ryan Griffin
Cairo Santos
Orleans Darkwa
Desman Moses
Julius Warmsley
Jordan Sullen
Lorenzo Doss(committed when Toledo was coach)
Derick Strozier

[Hornetswave]

That list is impressive, I really don't think any of CJ's people will get picked to play in the NFL.

[oliveandblue]

A CJ Tulane team would lose to a Toledo Tulane team. No doubt in my mind.

And the Dome was better. Perfect conditions to throw the football.

Maybe we should become a triple-option team? If conditions are not going to be ideal, then it is a BAD idea to sling it around in a pro-style offense. Our current pro-style offense cannot do anything.

[greenphantom]

It's a wash. The 2011 team beat SE and UAB before quitting on the season. The 2015 team beat Maine and 0-10 UCF. At least the 2011 team could score.

We all hate to admit it because it seems like it is throwing CJ a lifeline, but the fact is that our October schedule did include 4 teams that are currently in the top 25, three of them on the road. 2011 was a much, much weaker schedule. We lost 45-6 to freaking Army (3-9 that year). We lost 44-7 to freaking UTEP (5-7) AT HOME. We lost 33-17 to Memphis (2-10) at HOME. We lost to Houston at home 73-17.

We got blown out by bad teams that year. I would argue that Houston this year is better than Houston in 2011, and that team disemboweled us. The SoS in 2011 according to Sagarin was #110. The SoS so far in 2015 is #39.

Before any of the usual suspects argue that I'm making excuses for 2015, I'm not. In year 4, we should be more competitive than we are. But that 2015 team was just SO bad against SUCH HORRIBLE teams. It really isn't even a question.

And I genuinely do think that this team has the talent to compete, if they were coached properly. That 2011 team had neither the talent nor the coaching to be competitive with a significantly worse schedule. Bob Toledo's team was that bad, don't kid yourselves. I also think this team hasn't quit, they just are strangled by a horrible offensive system that puts too much pressure and wear/tear on what is actually a very capable defense.

Good points but to be fair 6 of the losses in 2011 occurred after Toledo was fired, including 2 you mentioned, Memphis and Houston.

I do think it would be a pretty close game.

[Jonathan]

Toledo and CJ maybe Scelfo worst Tulane football programs in modern history. Fire CJ now. Email Tulane President Fitts on this.

[greenphantom]

Toledo and CJ maybe Scelfo worst Tulane football programs in modern history. Fire CJ now. Email Tulane President Fitts on this.

I'm ready to fire Fitts now

[Ernie McCracken]

Come on now. CJ makes Scelfo look like Bill Walsh.

[GreenGears]

Pop Quiz

Football coach records
a) 14-32
b) 15-40
c) 37-57

Which one is CJ? Which one is Toledo? Which one is Scelfco?

[Ernie McCracken]

A. CJ
B. Toledo
C. Scelfo (highest winning % of the 3)

I would take Scelfo any day of the week over CJ.

[TXWave88]

Scelfo had 20 wins in his first 4 seasons and played tougher competition than what Toledo and CJ faced. CJ has had 2 tougher seasons recently, but played the cream puffs his first 2. CUSA before Louisville split was significantly better than after. Then at the end of CUSA, what a joke of competition and we still could not win...

But this is about CJ and Toledo. I felt as if Toledo's teams were just hopeless. I was to the point that I thought maybe dropping down divisions could be an option because we just had 0 going for us. Toledo's linemen signees weren't FCS caliber. With CJ, the coaching is so bad, but I think we all agree that this team may be decent with a good staff in place. I am not sure I ever felt that way with Toledo's teams once we got past the end of Scelfo's last decent recruits.

I have not been a Tulane fan as long as several here. Were the old bad coaches that we hear a lot about that much worse than what we have seen the last decade? If so, yikes.

[GreenGears]

I think it is always hard to judge past vs present. However, 14-32 is starting to look a lot like 15-40. I'm not saying we'll go 1-9 in our next ten games but this season might end with us 2-10.

[sader24]

Know someone who played for Scelfo and has been to multiple CJ practices. Said CJ makes Scelfo look like a top notch coach and that Price makes Frank Scelfo look like Knute Rockne. Said it really isn't close and that he didn't think Chris Scelfo was a good coach, but that's how bad it is.

[JerseyWave]

Scelfo had 20 wins in his first 4 seasons and played tougher competition than what Toledo and CJ faced. CJ has had 2 tougher seasons recently, but played the cream puffs his first 2. CUSA before Louisville split was significantly better than after. Then at the end of CUSA, what a joke of competition and we still could not win...

But this is about CJ and Toledo. I felt as if Toledo's teams were just hopeless. I was to the point that I thought maybe dropping down divisions could be an option because we just had 0 going for us. Toledo's linemen signees weren't FCS caliber. With CJ, the coaching is so bad, but I think we all agree that this team may be decent with a good staff in place. I am not sure I ever felt that way with Toledo's teams once we got past the end of Scelfo's last decent recruits.

I have not been a Tulane fan as long as several here. Were the old bad coaches that we hear a lot about that much worse than what we have seen the last decade? If so, yikes.

In fairness to Toledo, he took over one year after Katrina when the Athletic Department was operating on a bare bones budget and dealing with plenty of negative recruiting over the survival of Tulane and the future of New Orleans. I am in no way a Toledo apologist. Dickson giving him an extension after year four was the last straw for me.

CJ was supposed to benefit from the new conference, new stadium and the New Orleans Bowl appearance, but if anything the program has slid further downwards. CJ has failed to capitalize on anything positive. CJ's defenses have been very competitive until running out of gas because of the offense. Gotta give Lionel Washington most of the credit for the defense being respectable.

[glennc]

Bob Toledo's team was worst because they Quit on him. This team never quit in C.j. yet, however i go all the way back to the first 62-0 game and i can truthfully say this is the worst coached team Tulane has ever had.

[jonathanjoseph]

Bob Toledo's team was worst because they Quit on him. This team never quit in C.j. yet, however i go all the way back to the first 62-0 game and i can truthfully say this is the worst coached team Tulane has ever had.

In the GT game early this season, there was definitely some "quit" in the team.

[Ernie McCracken]

Our only hope at this point is for the AAC (read: Aresco) to hold Tulane's feet to the fire and insist results. Because Lord knows our leadership doesn't care about winning.