Ed Daniels and Ted Lewis articles

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Highwave
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:10 pm

http://clarionherald.info/clarion/index ... d-problems

http://www.theneworleansadvocate.com/sp ... ulane-have

Ed Daniels: "And, here’s my biggest question: If you change coaches, who in their right mind would want the job?"
Ted Lewis: "It’s never been easy at Tulane. The last coach to depart with a winning record after at least three years on the job was Henry Frnka, 64 years and 15 successors ago."

I posted the following on the other board originally in response to Lewis' piece. Daniels' piece warrants the same response. Just some food for thought and my humble 2 cents. Our record of coaching hires is pathetic... anyway, welcome any feedback from you guys.

I am sick and tired of reading this stuff - it has been the mantra of local sportswriters for a number of years, despite not being grounded in fact but rather perception. Contrary to popular belief, good coaches have routinely proven that you can win at Tulane, though John Q. Public would never know it. The problem has been keeping good coaches and timely getting rid of the bad ones, and that is where the "never easy at Tulane" part comes in.

Mack Brown - improved each year at TU and went to a bowl game in year 3 before leaving.
Tommy Bowden - took a program that was 23-67 under the 2 prior HCs and went 19-4 before leaving (should have gone to 2 bowls but declined an invite in his 1st year).
Larry Smith - improved each year and went to a bowl game in year 4 before leaving.
Jim Pittman - left after he went to a bowl game

All of the above left immediately after achieving success at Tulane and one proved that you don’t even have to be an elite HC to win at TU (Bowden).

The one constant at Tulane has been its inability to follow up a good hire with another good hire. Here is a look at the other hires over the past 50 years:

Curtis Johnson – record at TU: 12-27;
Pre-TU – 50 y/o; never a coordinator at any level before hired

Bob Toledo - record at TU: 15-40
Pre-TU – 61 y/o; some success as HC at UCLA, but he was out of fball for 3 yrs after and had been back as an OC at New Mex. for only 1 year when hired.
Post-TU - out of football for 2 years; now OC at San Diego St.

Chris Scelfo - record at TU: 37-57
Pre-TU – 35 y/o; no HC experience; OC at an FCS school; asst. HC at UGA
Post-TU – out of football for 2 yrs; 6 yrs as a TE coach for the Falcons

Buddy Teevens - record at TU: 9-36
Pre-TU – 36 y/o; 26-22 as a HC at Dartmouth
Post-TU - Stanford hired him as a HC 6 yrs later and went 10-23; now back at Dartmouth where it took him 6 yrs to build a winner in the Ivy League

Greg Davis - record at TU: 14-31
Pre-TU – no HC experience at all; assistant with no coordinator experience except with Mack Brown
Post-TU – OC only; no other HC gigs

Wally English - record at TU: 5-17
Pre-TU – 44 y/o; no HC experience; hired from Dolphins where he was a position coach; only 3 yrs OC experience total pre-hire;
Post-TU – out of football for 8 yrs before a 1 yr stint as a OC in World League of American Football; then, out of football another 5 yrs before a 1 yr stint as OC at Hawaii

Vince Gibson - record at TU: 17-17;
Pre-TU – 47 y/o; 58-81 overall as a HC at Kansas St. and Louisville
Post-TU – coached 1 year for a Nola arena league football team 10 years after he was fired from TU

Bennie Ellender - record at TU: 27-29
Pre-TU – 46 y/o; 7 yrs of success as a HC at a FCS school
Post-TU – never a HC again

It is not a coincidence that only 1 of the coaches above got another shot at a HC position. One might argue that this proves TU is a coaching graveyard. However, notably, the only coach on that list with pre-TU success as a HC at the FBS level was Toledo, who was 61 y/o when hired. Further, Teevens failed miserably at his 2nd shot in FBS with Stanford (who shortly thereafter hired Harbaugh and was off to the races).

When will local sportswriters start demanding that their city’s largest employer start making competent employment decisions in football? Rather than blaming the school for an ineffective HC’s ineffectiveness, blame the school for hiring ineffective head coaches in the first place. (Can anyone imagine Rich Rod going 12-22 in his 1st 3 yrs at TU?)

TU athletics deserves plenty of criticism, but its high time the media starts getting it right when it comes to the substance of the criticism TU deserves.


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Bigschtick
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:36 pm

Good post Highwave. So I guess some these sportswriters would have us keep the incompetent
Johnson and his staff!
Speak softly but carry a bigschtick!
winwave
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 3:43 pm

It goes w/out saying that a good coach can win at Tulane. The problem is in this day and age w/getting a good coach to take the job. There is no administrative support for one. Then there is the very lacking facilities. The administration keeps ignoring the facilities issues. If too many of our fans bury their head in the sand on that then it's over. The demand has to be for a new AD followed by the immediate fundraising for a new on-campus football operations building w/a legit weight room, meeting rooms and a new squad room. Without those facilities there will NEVER BE A GOOD HC AT TULANE AGAIN.
Find A Way!
Highwave
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:11 pm

winwave wrote:It goes w/out saying that a good coach can win at Tulane. The problem is in this day and age w/getting a good coach to take the job. There is no administrative support for one. Then there is the very lacking facilities. The administration keeps ignoring the facilities issues. If too many of our fans bury their head in the sand on that then it's over. The demand has to be for a new AD followed by the immediate fundraising for a new on-campus football operations building w/a legit weight room, meeting rooms and a new squad room. Without those facilities there will NEVER BE A GOOD HC AT TULANE AGAIN.
There is no doubt that TU can do more to attract a good coach. However, it is far from a hopeless, thankless job. A hungry coach, with a proven record of success, either as a HC or at least implementing his own off/def system as a coordinator, will win at TU every time. With winning comes $$, with $$ comes improvements, etc.

The alternative is to shell out $$ to short-circuit the above progression, which TU seems unwilling to do institutionally - they are not alone though in that regard. My point is that if you won't fork over the $$ up-front to invest in big time facilities improvements, then at least make the right hires.

Btw, TU has shown it is willing to pay a very competitive salary for a coach and his staff - may have been an issue in the past, but not anymore. So, all we are talking about is institutional support and that at least seems to be heading in a better direction than before. Mind you, if it were up to me, TU would be doing things a lot differently - just saying that us fans shouldn't buy into the myth that you just simply "can't win at Tuh-lane".
jonathanjoseph
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:18 pm

Highwave wrote:http://clarionherald.info/clarion/index ... d-problems

http://www.theneworleansadvocate.com/sp ... ulane-have

Ed Daniels: "And, here’s my biggest question: If you change coaches, who in their right mind would want the job?"
Ted Lewis: "It’s never been easy at Tulane. The last coach to depart with a winning record after at least three years on the job was Henry Frnka, 64 years and 15 successors ago."

I posted the following on the other board originally in response to Lewis' piece. Daniels' piece warrants the same response. Just some food for thought and my humble 2 cents. Our record of coaching hires is pathetic... anyway, welcome any feedback from you guys.

I am sick and tired of reading this stuff - it has been the mantra of local sportswriters for a number of years, despite not being grounded in fact but rather perception. Contrary to popular belief, good coaches have routinely proven that you can win at Tulane, though John Q. Public would never know it. The problem has been keeping good coaches and timely getting rid of the bad ones, and that is where the "never easy at Tulane" part comes in.

Mack Brown - improved each year at TU and went to a bowl game in year 3 before leaving.
Tommy Bowden - took a program that was 23-67 under the 2 prior HCs and went 19-4 before leaving (should have gone to 2 bowls but declined an invite in his 1st year).
Larry Smith - improved each year and went to a bowl game in year 4 before leaving.
Jim Pittman - left after he went to a bowl game

All of the above left immediately after achieving success at Tulane and one proved that you don’t even have to be an elite HC to win at TU (Bowden).

The one constant at Tulane has been its inability to follow up a good hire with another good hire. Here is a look at the other hires over the past 50 years:

Curtis Johnson – record at TU: 12-27;
Pre-TU – 50 y/o; never a coordinator at any level before hired

Bob Toledo - record at TU: 15-40
Pre-TU – 61 y/o; some success as HC at UCLA, but he was out of fball for 3 yrs after and had been back as an OC at New Mex. for only 1 year when hired.
Post-TU - out of football for 2 years; now OC at San Diego St.

Chris Scelfo - record at TU: 37-57
Pre-TU – 35 y/o; no HC experience; OC at an FCS school; asst. HC at UGA
Post-TU – out of football for 2 yrs; 6 yrs as a TE coach for the Falcons

Buddy Teevens - record at TU: 9-36
Pre-TU – 36 y/o; 26-22 as a HC at Dartmouth
Post-TU - Stanford hired him as a HC 6 yrs later and went 10-23; now back at Dartmouth where it took him 6 yrs to build a winner in the Ivy League

Greg Davis - record at TU: 14-31
Pre-TU – no HC experience at all; assistant with no coordinator experience except with Mack Brown
Post-TU – OC only; no other HC gigs

Wally English - record at TU: 5-17
Pre-TU – 44 y/o; no HC experience; hired from Dolphins where he was a position coach; only 3 yrs OC experience total pre-hire;
Post-TU – out of football for 8 yrs before a 1 yr stint as a OC in World League of American Football; then, out of football another 5 yrs before a 1 yr stint as OC at Hawaii

Vince Gibson - record at TU: 17-17;
Pre-TU – 47 y/o; 58-81 overall as a HC at Kansas St. and Louisville
Post-TU – coached 1 year for a Nola arena league football team 10 years after he was fired from TU

Bennie Ellender - record at TU: 27-29
Pre-TU – 46 y/o; 7 yrs of success as a HC at a FCS school
Post-TU – never a HC again

It is not a coincidence that only 1 of the coaches above got another shot at a HC position. One might argue that this proves TU is a coaching graveyard. However, notably, the only coach on that list with pre-TU success as a HC at the FBS level was Toledo, who was 61 y/o when hired. Further, Teevens failed miserably at his 2nd shot in FBS with Stanford (who shortly thereafter hired Harbaugh and was off to the races).

When will local sportswriters start demanding that their city’s largest employer start making competent employment decisions in football? Rather than blaming the school for an ineffective HC’s ineffectiveness, blame the school for hiring ineffective head coaches in the first place. (Can anyone imagine Rich Rod going 12-22 in his 1st 3 yrs at TU?)

TU athletics deserves plenty of criticism, but its high time the media starts getting it right when it comes to the substance of the criticism TU deserves.
Good post, Highwave.

The challenge I have is that everything that happened Pre-Cowen doesn't really matter. Coinciding with the start of Cowen's tenure, the value of D1A college athletics has skyrocketed while the value of the median college degree has plummeted.

The idea that college athletics might be an extracurricular activity had some merit pre-1998. Not a lot of merit, as universities like Michigan and Notre Dame clearly show, but at least it was a credible viewpoint.

That's no longer the case. Over the past 15 years numerous billions of dollars have been invested in D1A football facilities while Tulane built a baseball stadium. Now Tulane built a stadium that, while nice, is small enough to immediately turn off top level recruits and coaches and conferences.

The problem is now that it's too late. $100M in capital was just spent on a plan that is an absolute failure. Ironically, the facilities might be enough to create a decent basketball program given our conference, but basketball is barely relevant next to football. Our football program is in real trouble thanks to a lack of facilities and the organizational commitment to winning.

Tulane could absolutely be the next TCU or Baylor. But leadership decided, without letting anyone know, that they didn't want to be. No promising coach is going to work for this administration, and this administration is not going anywhere. They do not look at this as their job where they need to perform. They look at the university as theirs to do with as they please, and a large bank account they can do with what they please.

This development isn't new. I got kicked off the other forum in 2005 for saying just that. So the other forum has been absolutely complicit in silencing voices of dissent and continuing to toe the party line. Not that there were many dissenting voices, but silencing them for 10 years can go a long way towards masking the problem. Coincidentally, that's exactly why dictators control media messages.

The situation is likely beyond repair, and the only chance at repair rests on an aggressive legal campaign to retake the power and authority from those who stole it, unethically and perhaps illegally.
jonathanjoseph
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:36 pm

Highwave wrote:
winwave wrote:It goes w/out saying that a good coach can win at Tulane. The problem is in this day and age w/getting a good coach to take the job. There is no administrative support for one. Then there is the very lacking facilities. The administration keeps ignoring the facilities issues. If too many of our fans bury their head in the sand on that then it's over. The demand has to be for a new AD followed by the immediate fundraising for a new on-campus football operations building w/a legit weight room, meeting rooms and a new squad room. Without those facilities there will NEVER BE A GOOD HC AT TULANE AGAIN.
There is no doubt that TU can do more to attract a good coach. However, it is far from a hopeless, thankless job. A hungry coach, with a proven record of success, either as a HC or at least implementing his own off/def system as a coordinator, will win at TU every time. With winning comes $$, with $$ comes improvements, etc.

The alternative is to shell out $$ to short-circuit the above progression, which TU seems unwilling to do institutionally - they are not alone though in that regard. My point is that if you won't fork over the $$ up-front to invest in big time facilities improvements, then at least make the right hires.

Btw, TU has shown it is willing to pay a very competitive salary for a coach and his staff - may have been an issue in the past, but not anymore. So, all we are talking about is institutional support and that at least seems to be heading in a better direction than before. Mind you, if it were up to me, TU would be doing things a lot differently - just saying that us fans shouldn't buy into the myth that you just simply "can't win at Tuh-lane".
So in every case the investment comes before the success. That's true for every successfully built college football program (Baylor, TCU, Louisville, etc) and it's also true of any business endeavor. It's common sense.

Meanwhile, you talk about institutional support but we have SEVEN expected scholarship football players unavailable for various academic reasons.

As for Tulane's competitive salaries? C'mon. You noted that you post on the other site, so I'm left to point out that you believe something that is an obvious lie perpetuated by the cheerleaders on that forum. If the rumors of CJ's $1.25M salary are correct, then I believe that makes him the lowest paid head coach in the AAC. Or if he isn't he's very close to the bottom. Ed Conroy is similarly lowly paid, making a fraction of what the AAC's top coaches make.

It's a real problem that the administrators of that forum so readily spread obvious lies, and then pretend that what they are doing is in Tulane's best interests. This is also the problem with the alumni allowing Cowen/Dickson to tell these bald faced lies and get away with it.
Wave755
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 4:41 pm

I like Ed Daniels and appreciate his articles but to place the complete blame on the administration is wrong. I remember at the end of the Buddy Teevens era the media, including Ed Daniels, sided fully with Teevens saying the then Kelly administration and AD Sandy Barber failed to give Teevens proper support for a winning program at Tulane. Jim Henderson became close to Buddy Teevens over his 5 years as head coach at Tulane and really ripped Tulane for the tearful exit of his friend Buddy. Like Ed Daniels, Jim Henderson also blamed Tulane, not Teevens, for our abysmal 5 years under his leadership as head coach. Then, under the same Kelly/Barber regime with Bowden/RR running a spread offense and instilling a whole new team attitude a seemingly “hapless” Shaun King for the 1995 & 96 seasons starting looking like a Joe Namath and we went 7-4 for 1997. For Henderson & Daniels the “party lie” then became “Tulane didn’t allow Teevens to coach his team for 1997”?

Down 51-10 it was not Michael Fitts who put only 9 men on the field for another easy GT touchdown? No one is asking this team to beat Ohio State, but only to be competitive in the AAC.
Highwave
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:01 pm

JJ, you and I largely agree with the historical failures - particularly with the lack of foresight on the part of the admin. We also agree with respect to the insufficiency of the recent investment in TU football (I don't follow bball closely enough to speak on deficiencies of those facilities, though I will say that Hertz seems first class).

However, while I see the investment as too little, I don't see it as too late and incurable at this point. This thing can be quickly turned around with the right leadership/vision. I also believe that any coach who cannot see potential in Yulman and the AAC is not a coach we need to hire. None of the successful coaches mentioned in my original post signed with TU because of anything more than the potential to turn the program around and win quickly. More recently, Tommy Bowden didn't sign on at Tulane and win because he had the Dome and C-USA, just as Rich Rod wasn't curious about TU in 2011 for those same reasons. Rather, TU is a legitimate stepping stool for coaches.

We just need to start viewing our hires the same way - use them as stepping stools to get where we need to be, and for as long as it takes until we finally get there. Then, we can start hiring someone who will stay (which seems to be a quality RD looks for in hiring).

Another thing - I am beginning to believe that our donor base is currently too small (and/or too apprehensive/skeptical) to accomplish more than the commitment TU has made in football to date. It is going to take success on the field or cash from TU itself to make that happen in the short term. We know the latter likely won't happen (and I'm not sure that is common amongst FBS schools), so why don't we (fans and sportswriters alike) start focusing our efforts on emphasizing on the potential for on-field success (all while applying pressure for bigger commitment)? At least we may get to see some good football, even if it isn't as good as it could/should be.

P.S. Touching on my post in response to winwave, if it were up to me, I would have begun a stadium campaign by promising to match every dollar pledged by donors up to $100M with a guarantee that all funds would be spent on the stadium and support facilities. THAT is institutional commitment IMHO - and that should give you an idea of what I think TU should do.
Highwave
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:20 pm

jonathanjoseph wrote:
Highwave wrote:
winwave wrote:It goes w/out saying that a good coach can win at Tulane. The problem is in this day and age w/getting a good coach to take the job. There is no administrative support for one. Then there is the very lacking facilities. The administration keeps ignoring the facilities issues. If too many of our fans bury their head in the sand on that then it's over. The demand has to be for a new AD followed by the immediate fundraising for a new on-campus football operations building w/a legit weight room, meeting rooms and a new squad room. Without those facilities there will NEVER BE A GOOD HC AT TULANE AGAIN.
There is no doubt that TU can do more to attract a good coach. However, it is far from a hopeless, thankless job. A hungry coach, with a proven record of success, either as a HC or at least implementing his own off/def system as a coordinator, will win at TU every time. With winning comes $$, with $$ comes improvements, etc.

The alternative is to shell out $$ to short-circuit the above progression, which TU seems unwilling to do institutionally - they are not alone though in that regard. My point is that if you won't fork over the $$ up-front to invest in big time facilities improvements, then at least make the right hires.

Btw, TU has shown it is willing to pay a very competitive salary for a coach and his staff - may have been an issue in the past, but not anymore. So, all we are talking about is institutional support and that at least seems to be heading in a better direction than before. Mind you, if it were up to me, TU would be doing things a lot differently - just saying that us fans shouldn't buy into the myth that you just simply "can't win at Tuh-lane".
So in every case the investment comes before the success. That's true for every successfully built college football program (Baylor, TCU, Louisville, etc) and it's also true of any business endeavor. It's common sense.

Meanwhile, you talk about institutional support but we have SEVEN expected scholarship football players unavailable for various academic reasons.

As for Tulane's competitive salaries? C'mon. You noted that you post on the other site, so I'm left to point out that you believe something that is an obvious lie perpetuated by the cheerleaders on that forum. If the rumors of CJ's $1.25M salary are correct, then I believe that makes him the lowest paid head coach in the AAC. Or if he isn't he's very close to the bottom. Ed Conroy is similarly lowly paid, making a fraction of what the AAC's top coaches make.

It's a real problem that the administrators of that forum so readily spread obvious lies, and then pretend that what they are doing is in Tulane's best interests. This is also the problem with the alumni allowing Cowen/Dickson to tell these bald faced lies and get away with it.
Two things: 1) I don't identify with a forum, much less rely upon one for my info - I simply posted there because a thread had been created specifically posting the Lewis article. 2) I did not say that the salaries were enough, only that they were competitive. While CJ's salary isn't impressive by AAC standards, neither has been his performance - I'd say it is at least proportional in that regard. Competitive offers were made to other candidates, enough for one of them to accept on the spot (before reneging after consulting with his family). We paid a lot in G5 terms for our fall-back option, which I think speaks to how competitive we were prepared to be.
jonathanjoseph
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:28 pm

Highwave wrote:JJ, you and I largely agree with the historical failures - particularly with the lack of foresight on the part of the admin. We also agree with respect to the insufficiency of the recent investment in TU football (I don't follow bball closely enough to speak on deficiencies of those facilities, though I will say that Hertz seems first class).

However, while I see the investment as too little, I don't see it as too late and incurable at this point. This thing can be quickly turned around with the right leadership/vision. I also believe that any coach who cannot see potential in Yulman and the AAC is not a coach we need to hire. None of the successful coaches mentioned in my original post signed with TU because of anything more than the potential to turn the program around and win quickly. More recently, Tommy Bowden didn't sign on at Tulane and win because he had the Dome and C-USA, just as Rich Rod wasn't curious about TU in 2011 for those same reasons. Rather, TU is a legitimate stepping stool for coaches.

We just need to start viewing our hires the same way - use them as stepping stools to get where we need to be, and for as long as it takes until we finally get there. Then, we can start hiring someone who will stay (which seems to be a quality RD looks for in hiring).

Another thing - I am beginning to believe that our donor base is currently too small (and/or too apprehensive/skeptical) to accomplish more than the commitment TU has made in football to date. It is going to take success on the field or cash from TU itself to make that happen in the short term. We know the latter likely won't happen (and I'm not sure that is common amongst FBS schools), so why don't we (fans and sportswriters alike) start focusing our efforts on emphasizing on the potential for on-field success (all while applying pressure for bigger commitment)? At least we may get to see some good football, even if it isn't as good as it could/should be.

P.S. Touching on my post in response to winwave, if it were up to me, I would have begun a stadium campaign by promising to match every dollar pledged by donors up to $100M with a guarantee that all funds would be spent on the stadium and support facilities. THAT is institutional commitment IMHO - and that should give you an idea of what I think TU should do.
Fair enough. I don't think you can recover from $100M mistakes quite so easily. To get Tulane football facilities ready to where we can realistically shoot for a P5 is now around $200M (upgrades to Yulman, IPF, locker rooms, etc). That kind of commitment is what any incoming coach would want to see, the tools he needs to be successful. We were only $50M away previously but we decided that building an on campus stadium was the best course of action, so now we're $200M away instead.

As for existing donor base, of course it's too small. That's why a competent and forward thinking athletic director would have made inroads with corporate and other business interests. As I've said repeatedly, the Benson family, among other business interests in NOLA, would benefit substantially if Tulane were a member of the Big 12. It would be easy to justify these interests donating $25M towards the needed facilities. How much increased revenue would the Hyatt realize if Texas and Oklahoma were coming to the Dome every year? Ooops, we decided to compete with them instead.

The fact is that while Yulman is nice, it has short term issues. Tulane had a long enough list of issues to fix without spending $80M to create new and more expensive issues. We are farther from the P5 than we were before Yulman. We aren't even going in the right direction.

I respect and admire your optimism. But this situation is badly diseased and will get worse. I have zero doubt of this. The only fixes are dramatic changes in direction from Cowen/Dickson but they've literally stolen the university and don't plan on giving it back. They are collecting their paychecks, throwing themselves parades, erecting plaques in their own honor, all the while they are making us miserable and lying about it to our faces. They have no intention of there ever being new leadership. They 100% think Tulane is theirs to do with what they want, even though that is immoral and illegal.

I'll ask you an updated version of the same question that got me kicked off the other forum 10 years ago.....Rick Dickson says we have the facilities we need to win championships. Is he incompetent or lying? Or both?
jonathanjoseph
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:35 pm

Highwave wrote: Two things: 1) I don't identify with a forum, much less rely upon one for my info - I simply posted there because a thread had been created specifically posting the Lewis article. 2) I did not say that the salaries were enough, only that they were competitive. While CJ's salary isn't impressive by AAC standards, neither has been his performance - I'd say it is at least proportional in that regard. Competitive offers were made to other candidates, enough for one of them to accept on the spot (before reneging after consulting with his family). We paid a lot in G5 terms for our fall-back option, which I think speaks to how competitive we were prepared to be.
1) Then you continue to get your info from people lying and continue to legitimize a "forum" that exists purely to spread those lies. Such lies are repeated without pushback there, and that's how such misinformation becomes the prevailing wisdom.

2) But they are't competitive. It's simply untrue. The definition of competitive is not "the lowest or close to the lowest". I know that everyone does not want to believe that everything that comes out of Tulane/Wilson Center isn't more than a pack of blatant lies. Just as when they say that Yulman is "first class" but doesn't include things that are basic necessities like wifi.

If you are talking about what they "would" have paid Rich Rod, then I would refer back to the issue that no coach worth that money will be willing to work for Cowen/Dickson. What say you about Dickson saying that we've fixed our football facility issue and moving on to OIympic sports?
winwave
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:47 pm

Highwave wrote:
winwave wrote:It goes w/out saying that a good coach can win at Tulane. The problem is in this day and age w/getting a good coach to take the job. There is no administrative support for one. Then there is the very lacking facilities. The administration keeps ignoring the facilities issues. If too many of our fans bury their head in the sand on that then it's over. The demand has to be for a new AD followed by the immediate fundraising for a new on-campus football operations building w/a legit weight room, meeting rooms and a new squad room. Without those facilities there will NEVER BE A GOOD HC AT TULANE AGAIN.
There is no doubt that TU can do more to attract a good coach. However, it is far from a hopeless, thankless job. A hungry coach, with a proven record of success, either as a HC or at least implementing his own off/def system as a coordinator, will win at TU every time. With winning comes $$, with $$ comes improvements, etc.

The alternative is to shell out $$ to short-circuit the above progression, which TU seems unwilling to do institutionally - they are not alone though in that regard. My point is that if you won't fork over the $$ up-front to invest in big time facilities improvements, then at least make the right hires.

Btw, TU has shown it is willing to pay a very competitive salary for a coach and his staff - may have been an issue in the past, but not anymore. So, all we are talking about is institutional support and that at least seems to be heading in a better direction than before. Mind you, if it were up to me, TU would be doing things a lot differently - just saying that us fans shouldn't buy into the myth that you just simply "can't win at Tuh-lane".

Highwave I have often said you can't impart tone on the internet. I say what I'm about to say to reach out to you. You are ignoring an important issue. Our facilities are extremely substandard. All the talk in sports today is player development. We do not have the facilities in place for that. Good coaches recognize that and refuse to come here. Coach after coach discusses how weak we are. The weight room just doesn't cut it. Those good coaches will realize they can't recruit here. CJ was supposed to be a recruiter. Yet as a poster elsewhere pointed out last year a composite of sites put us at 103 in recruiting. To attract good coaches and players the facilities need dramatic change. Otherwise we will never get that good coach to turn things around.
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Highwave
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:53 pm

Not referring to Rich Rod.

We don't disagree that keeping the status quo could be the death knell for TU football.

We disagree that the facilities are an impediment to on-field success. You are ignoring the move up to the AAC and I think that is a significant flaw in your analysis of the current state of the program and how quickly it can be turned around...right now.

That said, we agree that RD's administrative vision for TU fball has to expand and improve substantially and rapidly for us to ever have a shot of getting into a P5- which is where we should be. I think his approach to hiring/firing is the biggest impediment to immediate success, which I think unfortunately is the lynchpin for further program investments.
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:01 pm

winwave wrote:
Highwave wrote:
winwave wrote:It goes w/out saying that a good coach can win at Tulane. The problem is in this day and age w/getting a good coach to take the job. There is no administrative support for one. Then there is the very lacking facilities. The administration keeps ignoring the facilities issues. If too many of our fans bury their head in the sand on that then it's over. The demand has to be for a new AD followed by the immediate fundraising for a new on-campus football operations building w/a legit weight room, meeting rooms and a new squad room. Without those facilities there will NEVER BE A GOOD HC AT TULANE AGAIN.
There is no doubt that TU can do more to attract a good coach. However, it is far from a hopeless, thankless job. A hungry coach, with a proven record of success, either as a HC or at least implementing his own off/def system as a coordinator, will win at TU every time. With winning comes $$, with $$ comes improvements, etc.

The alternative is to shell out $$ to short-circuit the above progression, which TU seems unwilling to do institutionally - they are not alone though in that regard. My point is that if you won't fork over the $$ up-front to invest in big time facilities improvements, then at least make the right hires.

Btw, TU has shown it is willing to pay a very competitive salary for a coach and his staff - may have been an issue in the past, but not anymore. So, all we are talking about is institutional support and that at least seems to be heading in a better direction than before. Mind you, if it were up to me, TU would be doing things a lot differently - just saying that us fans shouldn't buy into the myth that you just simply "can't win at Tuh-lane".

Highwave I have often said you can't impart tone on the internet. I say what I'm about to say to reach out to you. You are ignoring an important issue. Our facilities are extremely substandard. All the talk in sports today is player development. We do not have the facilities in place for that. Good coaches recognize that and refuse to come here. Coach after coach discusses how weak we are. The weight room just doesn't cut it. Those good coaches will realize they can't recruit here. CJ was supposed to be a recruiter. Yet as a poster elsewhere pointed out last year a composite of sites put us at 103 in recruiting. To attract good coaches and players the facilities need dramatic change. Otherwise we will never get that good coach to turn things around.
I agree with your analysis of the situation (though talent has improved imho), just not your conclusion that it is prohibitive. Again, I think RD's hiring/firing decisions are the primary impediments to success at TU right now.
winwave
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:04 pm

My point is the field of candidates is severely narrowed by the lack of facilities in addition to not wanting to work for RD.
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nawlinspete
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 6:58 pm

Highwave, which coach accepted before being vetoed by his wife ?
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jonathanjoseph
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:03 pm

Highwave wrote:Not referring to Rich Rod.

We don't disagree that keeping the status quo could be the death knell for TU football.

We disagree that the facilities are an impediment to on-field success. You are ignoring the move up to the AAC and I think that is a significant flaw in your analysis of the current state of the program and how quickly it can be turned around...right now.

That said, we agree that RD's administrative vision for TU fball has to expand and improve substantially and rapidly for us to ever have a shot of getting into a P5- which is where we should be. I think his approach to hiring/firing is the biggest impediment to immediate success, which I think unfortunately is the lynchpin for further program investments.
If it were true that lack of facilities were not an impediment to success, then why have universities collectively invested billions in them? Why is it called "the facilities arms race"? You are welcome to believe what you want but no one involved in college athletics, save Dickson, would agree with you.

Meanwhile, the bigger point is RD's "administrative vision" isn't going to change. I've been saying that exact same thing since 2005, when this direction was obvious through their actions, if not their words. Tulane athletics exists so that Cowen will be able to claim that he and he alone built a college athletics department "the right way". He doesn't care about wins and losses, as Dickson has told you, and Dickson was given basically a 20 year contract in order to carry out Cowen's vision. That vision is about 90%-95% complete and there's no chance they are changing now.

If there's any hope of fixing things, you have to understand what the problem is. Facilities is one problem and Cowen/Dickson is another and neither will be changing. Good night, Tulane Athletics.
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tpstulane
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:12 pm

winwave wrote:
Highwave wrote:
winwave wrote:It goes w/out saying that a good coach can win at Tulane. The problem is in this day and age w/getting a good coach to take the job. There is no administrative support for one. Then there is the very lacking facilities. The administration keeps ignoring the facilities issues. If too many of our fans bury their head in the sand on that then it's over. The demand has to be for a new AD followed by the immediate fundraising for a new on-campus football operations building w/a legit weight room, meeting rooms and a new squad room. Without those facilities there will NEVER BE A GOOD HC AT TULANE AGAIN.
There is no doubt that TU can do more to attract a good coach. However, it is far from a hopeless, thankless job. A hungry coach, with a proven record of success, either as a HC or at least implementing his own off/def system as a coordinator, will win at TU every time. With winning comes $$, with $$ comes improvements, etc.

The alternative is to shell out $$ to short-circuit the above progression, which TU seems unwilling to do institutionally - they are not alone though in that regard. My point is that if you won't fork over the $$ up-front to invest in big time facilities improvements, then at least make the right hires.

Btw, TU has shown it is willing to pay a very competitive salary for a coach and his staff - may have been an issue in the past, but not anymore. So, all we are talking about is institutional support and that at least seems to be heading in a better direction than before. Mind you, if it were up to me, TU would be doing things a lot differently - just saying that us fans shouldn't buy into the myth that you just simply "can't win at Tuh-lane".

Highwave I have often said you can't impart tone on the internet. I say what I'm about to say to reach out to you. You are ignoring an important issue. Our facilities are extremely substandard. All the talk in sports today is player development. We do not have the facilities in place for that. Good coaches recognize that and refuse to come here. Coach after coach discusses how weak we are. The weight room just doesn't cut it. Those good coaches will realize they can't recruit here. CJ was supposed to be a recruiter. Yet as a poster elsewhere pointed out last year a composite of sites put us at 103 in recruiting. To attract good coaches and players the facilities need dramatic change. Otherwise we will never get that good coach to turn things around.
Win I agree. But if I'm interested in coming I tell Tulane I want XYZ on my list in writing before I sign on the dotted line. The problem is most coaches don't trust Tulane to honor their promise.
Rod called Tulane's bluff. Wanted certain things in writing Tulane didn't conform.
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sader24
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 9:15 pm

Like I said earlier nobody is coming here without written and verbal promises from President Fitts and the Board. Nobody in the country in the coaching community that is any good wants anything to do with Rick Dickson. Nobody in the country in the coaching community trusts or believes in Tulane University. The word is out there, Believe Me. What Tulane continues to fail to understand is that what they see as a burden and glorified extra-curricular activity (Major Athletics), good coaches see as THEIR CAREER. They aren't going to sacrifice their career and their future to come to a place that doesn't give them every single benefit and opportunity to suceed to further their Career. That's why whenever I hear someone say "Tulane has done Enough to compete and Tulane has Good Enough facilities for now" I laugh at how the person who says that really doesn't understand Sports and Coaching. Are you going to put your own Career in the hands of a University that begrudgingly does "Just Enough" to compete or are you going to go somewhere that is willingly and enthusiastically going above and beyond to do everything in their power to not just COMPETE but to Excel and Win and Win big. Lots of the people on this forum and YOGWF clearly don't understand that Coaching isn't an activity it's men's careers. They are going to go places that will willingly do everything they can to support them, make their job easier, and give them every single tool possible to win games. Every single thing we see with Tulane is Tulane having to be pulled against it's will to do this and that and doing just enough to say they are trying to compete. Nobody worth a sh*t is putting up with that B.S. in today's climate with all the money and facilities available. That's why I think it is over for Tulane Football. We're always behind the curve in sports instead of ahead of it. This University does not want to win championships, they will only do what is absolutely required of them to stay afloat and will only do that 5-10 years too late and begrudgingly. Curtis Johnson is a bad Head Coach, but we aren't getting a good one without a fundamental change in approach towards Football and Athletics from The Board and The President. The End.
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:32 pm

tpstulane wrote:
winwave wrote:
Highwave wrote:
winwave wrote:It goes w/out saying that a good coach can win at Tulane. The problem is in this day and age w/getting a good coach to take the job. There is no administrative support for one. Then there is the very lacking facilities. The administration keeps ignoring the facilities issues. If too many of our fans bury their head in the sand on that then it's over. The demand has to be for a new AD followed by the immediate fundraising for a new on-campus football operations building w/a legit weight room, meeting rooms and a new squad room. Without those facilities there will NEVER BE A GOOD HC AT TULANE AGAIN.
There is no doubt that TU can do more to attract a good coach. However, it is far from a hopeless, thankless job. A hungry coach, with a proven record of success, either as a HC or at least implementing his own off/def system as a coordinator, will win at TU every time. With winning comes $$, with $$ comes improvements, etc.

The alternative is to shell out $$ to short-circuit the above progression, which TU seems unwilling to do institutionally - they are not alone though in that regard. My point is that if you won't fork over the $$ up-front to invest in big time facilities improvements, then at least make the right hires.

Btw, TU has shown it is willing to pay a very competitive salary for a coach and his staff - may have been an issue in the past, but not anymore. So, all we are talking about is institutional support and that at least seems to be heading in a better direction than before. Mind you, if it were up to me, TU would be doing things a lot differently - just saying that us fans shouldn't buy into the myth that you just simply "can't win at Tuh-lane".

Highwave I have often said you can't impart tone on the internet. I say what I'm about to say to reach out to you. You are ignoring an important issue. Our facilities are extremely substandard. All the talk in sports today is player development. We do not have the facilities in place for that. Good coaches recognize that and refuse to come here. Coach after coach discusses how weak we are. The weight room just doesn't cut it. Those good coaches will realize they can't recruit here. CJ was supposed to be a recruiter. Yet as a poster elsewhere pointed out last year a composite of sites put us at 103 in recruiting. To attract good coaches and players the facilities need dramatic change. Otherwise we will never get that good coach to turn things around.
Win I agree. But if I'm interested in coming I tell Tulane I want XYZ on my list in writing before I sign on the dotted line. The problem is most coaches don't trust Tulane to honor their promise.
Rod called Tulane's bluff. Wanted certain things in writing Tulane didn't conform.

That's why I say it's on Tulane to have the plans drawn up and the fundraising ongoing and a timeline in place. Then and only then will the coaching pool be bountiful.
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jonathanjoseph
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:57 pm

sader24 wrote:Like I said earlier nobody is coming here without written and verbal promises from President Fitts and the Board. Nobody in the country in the coaching community that is any good wants anything to do with Rick Dickson. Nobody in the country in the coaching community trusts or believes in Tulane University. The word is out there, Believe Me. What Tulane continues to fail to understand is that what they see as a burden and glorified extra-curricular activity (Major Athletics), good coaches see as THEIR CAREER. They aren't going to sacrifice their career and their future to come to a place that doesn't give them every single benefit and opportunity to suceed to further their Career. That's why whenever I hear someone say "Tulane has done Enough to compete and Tulane has Good Enough facilities for now" I laugh at how the person who says that really doesn't understand Sports and Coaching. Are you going to put your own Career in the hands of a University that begrudgingly does "Just Enough" to compete or are you going to go somewhere that is willingly and enthusiastically going above and beyond to do everything in their power to not just COMPETE but to Excel and Win and Win big. Lots of the people on this forum and YOGWF clearly don't understand that Coaching isn't an activity it's men's careers. They are going to go places that will willingly do everything they can to support them, make their job easier, and give them every single tool possible to win games. Every single thing we see with Tulane is Tulane having to be pulled against it's will to do this and that and doing just enough to say they are trying to compete. Nobody worth a sh*t is putting up with that B.S. in today's climate with all the money and facilities available. That's why I think it is over for Tulane Football. We're always behind the curve in sports instead of ahead of it. This University does not want to win championships, they will only do what is absolutely required of them to stay afloat and will only do that 5-10 years too late and begrudgingly. Curtis Johnson is a bad Head Coach, but we aren't getting a good one without a fundamental change in approach towards Football and Athletics from The Board and The President. The End.
Correct. They just spent $100M on gimmicks because they thought they could fool everyone into believing they were committed (or they are monumentally incompetent).

The joke WOULD be on them if they were held accountable with their careers, but instead the joke is on us because its their program now and they will continue drawing large paychecks while destroying something we love and identify with.

It's a disgusting situation that should end in lawsuits.
jonathanjoseph
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:00 pm

How insane is it to think that RichRod was willing to come back but the dynamic duo of Cowen and Dickson to thought they both had leverage to negotiate and knew better.

You can rest assured that the University, not just Athletics, will end up bankrupt with that kind of decision making.
jonathanjoseph
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Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:01 pm

winwave wrote:
tpstulane wrote:
winwave wrote:
Highwave wrote:
winwave wrote:It goes w/out saying that a good coach can win at Tulane. The problem is in this day and age w/getting a good coach to take the job. There is no administrative support for one. Then there is the very lacking facilities. The administration keeps ignoring the facilities issues. If too many of our fans bury their head in the sand on that then it's over. The demand has to be for a new AD followed by the immediate fundraising for a new on-campus football operations building w/a legit weight room, meeting rooms and a new squad room. Without those facilities there will NEVER BE A GOOD HC AT TULANE AGAIN.
There is no doubt that TU can do more to attract a good coach. However, it is far from a hopeless, thankless job. A hungry coach, with a proven record of success, either as a HC or at least implementing his own off/def system as a coordinator, will win at TU every time. With winning comes $$, with $$ comes improvements, etc.

The alternative is to shell out $$ to short-circuit the above progression, which TU seems unwilling to do institutionally - they are not alone though in that regard. My point is that if you won't fork over the $$ up-front to invest in big time facilities improvements, then at least make the right hires.

Btw, TU has shown it is willing to pay a very competitive salary for a coach and his staff - may have been an issue in the past, but not anymore. So, all we are talking about is institutional support and that at least seems to be heading in a better direction than before. Mind you, if it were up to me, TU would be doing things a lot differently - just saying that us fans shouldn't buy into the myth that you just simply "can't win at Tuh-lane".

Highwave I have often said you can't impart tone on the internet. I say what I'm about to say to reach out to you. You are ignoring an important issue. Our facilities are extremely substandard. All the talk in sports today is player development. We do not have the facilities in place for that. Good coaches recognize that and refuse to come here. Coach after coach discusses how weak we are. The weight room just doesn't cut it. Those good coaches will realize they can't recruit here. CJ was supposed to be a recruiter. Yet as a poster elsewhere pointed out last year a composite of sites put us at 103 in recruiting. To attract good coaches and players the facilities need dramatic change. Otherwise we will never get that good coach to turn things around.
Win I agree. But if I'm interested in coming I tell Tulane I want XYZ on my list in writing before I sign on the dotted line. The problem is most coaches don't trust Tulane to honor their promise.
Rod called Tulane's bluff. Wanted certain things in writing Tulane didn't conform.

That's why I say it's on Tulane to have the plans drawn up and the fundraising ongoing and a timeline in place. Then and only then will the coaching pool be bountiful.
Right. And yet the public comments make clear that we don't need it, don't want it and are moving in to Olympic Sports because football is all set.
winwave
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Sat Sep 19, 2015 8:49 am

winwave wrote:
Highwave wrote:
winwave wrote:It goes w/out saying that a good coach can win at Tulane. The problem is in this day and age w/getting a good coach to take the job. There is no administrative support for one. Then there is the very lacking facilities. The administration keeps ignoring the facilities issues. If too many of our fans bury their head in the sand on that then it's over. The demand has to be for a new AD followed by the immediate fundraising for a new on-campus football operations building w/a legit weight room, meeting rooms and a new squad room. Without those facilities there will NEVER BE A GOOD HC AT TULANE AGAIN.
There is no doubt that TU can do more to attract a good coach. However, it is far from a hopeless, thankless job. A hungry coach, with a proven record of success, either as a HC or at least implementing his own off/def system as a coordinator, will win at TU every time. With winning comes $$, with $$ comes improvements, etc.

The alternative is to shell out $$ to short-circuit the above progression, which TU seems unwilling to do institutionally - they are not alone though in that regard. My point is that if you won't fork over the $$ up-front to invest in big time facilities improvements, then at least make the right hires.

Btw, TU has shown it is willing to pay a very competitive salary for a coach and his staff - may have been an issue in the past, but not anymore. So, all we are talking about is institutional support and that at least seems to be heading in a better direction than before. Mind you, if it were up to me, TU would be doing things a lot differently - just saying that us fans shouldn't buy into the myth that you just simply "can't win at Tuh-lane".

Highwave I have often said you can't impart tone on the internet. I say what I'm about to say to reach out to you. You are ignoring an important issue. Our facilities are extremely substandard. All the talk in sports today is player development. We do not have the facilities in place for that. Good coaches recognize that and refuse to come here. Coach after coach discusses how weak we are. The weight room just doesn't cut it. Those good coaches will realize they can't recruit here. CJ was supposed to be a recruiter. Yet as a poster elsewhere pointed out last year a composite of sites put us at 103 in recruiting. To attract good coaches and players the facilities need dramatic change. Otherwise we will never get that good coach to turn things around.
I should have added that as that poster pointed out that 103 ranking was before we lost those 3 recruits right before camp started.
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JerseyWave
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Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:45 am

Why is it that Ed Daniels doesn't attack the Athletic Director? Rick Dickson is the #1 problem north of Willow Street. Fitts appears to be indifferent about what goes on in the Wilson center. I don't care what kind of commitment Tulane University claims to make about Athletics if Rick Dickson is allowed to continue as Athletic Director. Dickson has failed over and over again and has proven incapable of hiring a quality coach. His judgement on handing out contract extensions, communication with the fan base, scheduling philosophy are all failures!!!!
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