Commisioner Mike Aresco Interview / AAC stadium size

[jonathanjoseph]

One other thing . If a AAC stadium should seat 35,000 to 40,000 could tulane be forced out of the league.

This is the $64 question left intentionally unaddressed in my post. It does appear that Aresco is dissatisfied with us. It is not a good sign going forward for us; our best course is to return to MBSD, turn Cow/Dick into an IPF and basketball facility or into just an IPF and build new basketball facilities on now closed McCalister Drive.

It was left unaddressed because its a stupid question, probably not worth 64 cents, much less $64. You don't accept a school into a conference knowing they're building a 22K seat stadium, then tell them after the fact its too small and kick them out. Stupidity.

He didn't say anything about kicking us out, but the point remains. It's a problem for our B12 bid, it's a problem for Aresco in positioning us as P6, it's a problem financially and it may be a problem for recruiting. All that said, that it's 3 years old can't be the overriding factor. Leaving as is doesn't seem to be an option.

[winwave]

One other thing . If a AAC stadium should seat 35,000 to 40,000 could tulane be forced out of the league.

This is the $64 question left intentionally unaddressed in my post. It does appear that Aresco is dissatisfied with us. It is not a good sign going forward for us; our best course is to return to MBSD, turn Cow/Dick into an IPF and basketball facility or into just an IPF and build new basketball facilities on now closed McCalister Drive.

It was left unaddressed because its a stupid question, probably not worth 64 cents, much less $64. You don't accept a school into a conference knowing they're building a 22K seat stadium, then tell them after the fact its too small and kick them out. Stupidity.

Although we all know there isn't anywhere close to 30k seats in the bowl of the stadium, the official capacity is 30K. When we sell out, we announce and publish attendance of 30K. They're not going to come and count the seats; just as the official capacity of Devlin/Fogelman is 4100 (yeah, right!) both don't have the seating but both will have inflated attendance numbers whenever we sell them out.

And yes, MBA is correct. There's no converting a brand new stadium into an IPF anytime in the next 5-10 years. It just isn't going to happen.

As I posted earlier I am not worried about getting kicked out of the AAC but when we got in the AAC you can bet they weren't told we were building a 22,00 seat stadium. You can bet the number was 35k at least and they also likely claimed it could be expanded to 45k.

As for counting seats we know it can easily be done in a short time on-line. More importantly one simply need to walk in it and look around and know damn good and well it doesn't hold anywhere near 30k. So if Aresco is going to tighten things up on members and enforce these type of decisions we will be made to move till we expand it and that's if it can be expanded to meet the requirements. Remember we were given a reprieve on Devlin and the conference let us play there the first year w/the provision that the coaches ok it after that season. You can bet that if we get good under MD and the place fills those coaches will be asking the conference to force us to move to the SKC. Thought that's a good problem to potentially have.

[jonathanjoseph]

One other thing . If a AAC stadium should seat 35,000 to 40,000 could tulane be forced out of the league.

This is the $64 question left intentionally unaddressed in my post. It does appear that Aresco is dissatisfied with us. It is not a good sign going forward for us; our best course is to return to MBSD, turn Cow/Dick into an IPF and basketball facility or into just an IPF and build new basketball facilities on now closed McCalister Drive.

It was left unaddressed because its a stupid question, probably not worth 64 cents, much less $64. You don't accept a school into a conference knowing they're building a 22K seat stadium, then tell them after the fact its too small and kick them out. Stupidity.

Yeah I agree with this - we shouldn't be worried about being kicked out of the AAC in the foreseeable future and we don't need to worry about changing or modifying our football game day facility until (1) a better conference requires us to make changes in order for us to gain entry in that conference or (2) we consistently sell out Yulman and we need to expand to accommodate the demand for fans.

1) that's not how conference realignment works. We don't have the leverage to tell conferences what we'll do if they invite us. In case you didn't notice, those ahead of us on the reported invite list have already made those investments.
2) that's not how facilities planning works. If we are consistently selling out 22k we are losing money.

[jonathanjoseph]

One other thing . If a AAC stadium should seat 35,000 to 40,000 could tulane be forced out of the league.

This is the $64 question left intentionally unaddressed in my post. It does appear that Aresco is dissatisfied with us. It is not a good sign going forward for us; our best course is to return to MBSD, turn Cow/Dick into an IPF and basketball facility or into just an IPF and build new basketball facilities on now closed McCalister Drive.

It was left unaddressed because its a stupid question, probably not worth 64 cents, much less $64. You don't accept a school into a conference knowing they're building a 22K seat stadium, then tell them after the fact its too small and kick them out. Stupidity.

Yeah I agree with this - we shouldn't be worried about being kicked out of the AAC in the foreseeable future and we don't need to worry about changing or modifying our football game day facility until (1) a better conference requires us to make changes in order for us to gain entry in that conference or (2) we consistently sell out Yulman and we need to expand to accommodate the demand for fans.

Ah the proverbial chicken of the egg.

Despite not being abe to fill their previous stadium, the University of Houston went out and built a $130mm stadium that can seat 42k plus and has all the bells and whistles including support assets (meeting rooms, weight room, training rooms, offices etc.). This is a big reason why their recruiting has increased drastically and they were able to retain Tom Herman. A 23k Yulman with crap support assets will leave us with an up hill climb when competing against the rest of the AAC on the field and in recruiting, never mind retaining good coaches.

Yep.

[jonathanjoseph]

One other thing . If a AAC stadium should seat 35,000 to 40,000 could tulane be forced out of the league.

This is the $64 question left intentionally unaddressed in my post. It does appear that Aresco is dissatisfied with us. It is not a good sign going forward for us; our best course is to return to MBSD, turn Cow/Dick into an IPF and basketball facility or into just an IPF and build new basketball facilities on now closed McCalister Drive.

It was left unaddressed because its a stupid question, probably not worth 64 cents, much less $64. You don't accept a school into a conference knowing they're building a 22K seat stadium, then tell them after the fact its too small and kick them out. Stupidity.

Although we all know there isn't anywhere close to 30k seats in the bowl of the stadium, the official capacity is 30K. When we sell out, we announce and publish attendance of 30K. They're not going to come and count the seats; just as the official capacity of Devlin/Fogelman is 4100 (yeah, right!) both don't have the seating but both will have inflated attendance numbers whenever we sell them out.

And yes, MBA is correct. There's no converting a brand new stadium into an IPF anytime in the next 5-10 years. It just isn't going to happen.

As I posted earlier I am not worried about getting kicked out of the AAC but when we got in the AAC you can bet they weren't told we were building a 22,00 seat stadium. You can bet the number was 35k at least and they also likely claimed it could be expanded to 45k.

As for counting seats we know it can easily be done in a short time on-line. More importantly one simply need to walk in it and look around and know damn good and well it doesn't hold anywhere near 30k. So if Aresco is going to tighten things up on members and enforce these type of decisions we will be made to move till we expand it and that's if it can be expanded to meet the requirements. Remember we were given a reprieve on Devlin and the conference let us play there the first year w/the provision that the coaches ok it after that season. You can bet that if we get good under MD and the place fills those coaches will be asking the conference to force us to move to the SKC. Thought that's a good problem to potentially have.

Right. It's a good problem as long as we're all willing to write down $90M in facilities in <5 years.

[Aberzombie1892]

1) that's not how conference realignment works. We don't have the leverage to tell conferences what we'll do if they invite us. In case you didn't notice, those ahead of us on the reported invite list have already made those investments.
2) that's not how facilities planning works. If we are consistently selling out 22k we are losing money.

1) Conference realignment will have pretty much reached its apex after the Big 12 decides what to do in the sense that this Big 12 fiasco may be the last realignment that follows the same rules as previous realignments. If the P5 each expand to 20 or even only 16 teams each, we are in regardless of how large/great our facilities are. Heck, if the Big 12 collapses and the P4 expand to 16 each, we would still have a so-so shot, and, if the Big 12 collapses and the P4 expanded to 18+ we would be in regardless. Some people may disagree with that, but I'm not sure why.

2) I agree, but it's not like we are selling out 22K now. If we were selling out 22k at Yulman, we could just raise prices/donation requirements in order to see a significant increase in revenue until we could get the necessary approvals to expand the size of the stadium. It's not a perfect situation, but it's what we have.

[RobertM320]

One other thing . If a AAC stadium should seat 35,000 to 40,000 could tulane be forced out of the league.

This is the $64 question left intentionally unaddressed in my post. It does appear that Aresco is dissatisfied with us. It is not a good sign going forward for us; our best course is to return to MBSD, turn Cow/Dick into an IPF and basketball facility or into just an IPF and build new basketball facilities on now closed McCalister Drive.

It was left unaddressed because its a stupid question, probably not worth 64 cents, much less $64. You don't accept a school into a conference knowing they're building a 22K seat stadium, then tell them after the fact its too small and kick them out. Stupidity.

Yeah I agree with this - we shouldn't be worried about being kicked out of the AAC in the foreseeable future and we don't need to worry about changing or modifying our football game day facility until (1) a better conference requires us to make changes in order for us to gain entry in that conference or (2) we consistently sell out Yulman and we need to expand to accommodate the demand for fans.

Ah the proverbial chicken of the egg.

Despite not being abe to fill their previous stadium, the University of Houston went out and built a $130mm stadium that can seat 42k plus and has all the bells and whistles including support assets (meeting rooms, weight room, training rooms, offices etc.). This is a big reason why their recruiting has increased drastically and they were able to retain Tom Herman. A 23k Yulman with crap support assets will leave us with an up hill climb when competing against the rest of the AAC on the field and in recruiting, never mind retaining good coaches.

Yep.

Maybe a bigger reason why they were able to retain Tom Herman is because the University is subsidizing the Athletic Dept to the tune of $28M PER YEAR. 1) We can't afford that, and 2) that's not sustainable for long, even at Houston. If they don't get in now, they're in big trouble.

[mbawavefan12]

One other thing . If a AAC stadium should seat 35,000 to 40,000 could tulane be forced out of the league.

This is the $64 question left intentionally unaddressed in my post. It does appear that Aresco is dissatisfied with us. It is not a good sign going forward for us; our best course is to return to MBSD, turn Cow/Dick into an IPF and basketball facility or into just an IPF and build new basketball facilities on now closed McCalister Drive.

It was left unaddressed because its a stupid question, probably not worth 64 cents, much less $64. You don't accept a school into a conference knowing they're building a 22K seat stadium, then tell them after the fact its too small and kick them out. Stupidity.

Yeah I agree with this - we shouldn't be worried about being kicked out of the AAC in the foreseeable future and we don't need to worry about changing or modifying our football game day facility until (1) a better conference requires us to make changes in order for us to gain entry in that conference or (2) we consistently sell out Yulman and we need to expand to accommodate the demand for fans.

Ah the proverbial chicken of the egg.

Despite not being abe to fill their previous stadium, the University of Houston went out and built a $130mm stadium that can seat 42k plus and has all the bells and whistles including support assets (meeting rooms, weight room, training rooms, offices etc.). This is a big reason why their recruiting has increased drastically and they were able to retain Tom Herman. A 23k Yulman with crap support assets will leave us with an up hill climb when competing against the rest of the AAC on the field and in recruiting, never mind retaining good coaches.

Yep.

Maybe a bigger reason why they were able to retain Tom Herman is because the University is subsidizing the Athletic Dept to the tune of $28M PER YEAR. 1) We can't afford that, and 2) that's not sustainable for long, even at Houston. If they don't get in now, they're in big trouble.

If Tulane ever beat FSU in a BCS bowl, it would be worth probably $100m when you consider all the market, donations and application increases. UH is going to have 20k season tickets this year.

[jonathanjoseph]

One other thing . If a AAC stadium should seat 35,000 to 40,000 could tulane be forced out of the league.

This is the $64 question left intentionally unaddressed in my post. It does appear that Aresco is dissatisfied with us. It is not a good sign going forward for us; our best course is to return to MBSD, turn Cow/Dick into an IPF and basketball facility or into just an IPF and build new basketball facilities on now closed McCalister Drive.

It was left unaddressed because its a stupid question, probably not worth 64 cents, much less $64. You don't accept a school into a conference knowing they're building a 22K seat stadium, then tell them after the fact its too small and kick them out. Stupidity.

Yeah I agree with this - we shouldn't be worried about being kicked out of the AAC in the foreseeable future and we don't need to worry about changing or modifying our football game day facility until (1) a better conference requires us to make changes in order for us to gain entry in that conference or (2) we consistently sell out Yulman and we need to expand to accommodate the demand for fans.

Ah the proverbial chicken of the egg.

Despite not being abe to fill their previous stadium, the University of Houston went out and built a $130mm stadium that can seat 42k plus and has all the bells and whistles including support assets (meeting rooms, weight room, training rooms, offices etc.). This is a big reason why their recruiting has increased drastically and they were able to retain Tom Herman. A 23k Yulman with crap support assets will leave us with an up hill climb when competing against the rest of the AAC on the field and in recruiting, never mind retaining good coaches.

Yep.

Maybe a bigger reason why they were able to retain Tom Herman is because the University is subsidizing the Athletic Dept to the tune of $28M PER YEAR. 1) We can't afford that, and 2) that's not sustainable for long, even at Houston. If they don't get in now, they're in big trouble.

There's a missing piece here. That subsidy or any deficit has nothing to do with the facilities they've built. That's for their operating budget. They were able to retain Herman because they have the facilities so that he can build as big a football program as he wants.

Second of all, we could absolutely afford $28M if we wanted to, but we don't. Apparently having title to rare book collections at the library takes precedent, and satellite campuses in MS, etc.

[DfromCT]

Yep. And building a too small stadium made sense only to Dickson. I guarantee that Dannen would not have built a 23k stadium.

But that's where there is supposed to be legal responsibility and corporate governance measures to prevent disasters of such magnitude. Tulane Board Members could be financially ruined for allowing this to happen, which is why I think they ought to open up their checkbooks for whatever Troy Dannen needs and asks for. They enabled this mess, they are legally liable for it and they should fix it.

Then take legal action rather than post hundreds of complaints on an Internet bulletin board.

I don't think you understand how that works.

What I know is that a couple hundred posts on this Internet Bulletin Board does NOTHING to affect the "legal responsibility and corporate governance" issues you claim the BOA neglected. You post this crap all the time. Why not do something about it if you feel so strongly that there is legal grounds for action?

[ajcalhoun]

Why not do something about it if you feel so strongly that there is legal grounds for action?

Yeah, that. Or STFU.

[nawlinspete]

Winwave gets it.

"We will be made to move until we expand..." in Football. MBSD here we come.

If Basketball starts selling out our pathetic gym whose capacity has been reduced by 40% for seat backs we will be made to move. Or build.

Our biggest problem continues to be FACILITIES for the revenue sports; and ONLY AT TULANE would spending ~$80,000,000 exacerbate the problem.

[RobertM320]

One other thing . If a AAC stadium should seat 35,000 to 40,000 could tulane be forced out of the league.

This is the $64 question left intentionally unaddressed in my post. It does appear that Aresco is dissatisfied with us. It is not a good sign going forward for us; our best course is to return to MBSD, turn Cow/Dick into an IPF and basketball facility or into just an IPF and build new basketball facilities on now closed McCalister Drive.

It was left unaddressed because its a stupid question, probably not worth 64 cents, much less $64. You don't accept a school into a conference knowing they're building a 22K seat stadium, then tell them after the fact its too small and kick them out. Stupidity.

Yeah I agree with this - we shouldn't be worried about being kicked out of the AAC in the foreseeable future and we don't need to worry about changing or modifying our football game day facility until (1) a better conference requires us to make changes in order for us to gain entry in that conference or (2) we consistently sell out Yulman and we need to expand to accommodate the demand for fans.

Ah the proverbial chicken of the egg.

Despite not being abe to fill their previous stadium, the University of Houston went out and built a $130mm stadium that can seat 42k plus and has all the bells and whistles including support assets (meeting rooms, weight room, training rooms, offices etc.). This is a big reason why their recruiting has increased drastically and they were able to retain Tom Herman. A 23k Yulman with crap support assets will leave us with an up hill climb when competing against the rest of the AAC on the field and in recruiting, never mind retaining good coaches.

Yep.

Maybe a bigger reason why they were able to retain Tom Herman is because the University is subsidizing the Athletic Dept to the tune of $28M PER YEAR. 1) We can't afford that, and 2) that's not sustainable for long, even at Houston. If they don't get in now, they're in big trouble.

There's a missing piece here. That subsidy or any deficit has nothing to do with the facilities they've built. That's for their operating budget. They were able to retain Herman because they have the facilities so that he can build as big a football program as he wants.

Second of all, we could absolutely afford $28M if we wanted to, but we don't. Apparently having title to rare book collections at the library takes precedent, and satellite campuses in MS, etc.

Yes, their revenue generated is $26M, while their expenses are $55M. How long do you think they can keep going like that before it implodes? You're the one that keeps saying the education bubble is about to hit and they're going to start seeing declining enrollment. The university can't keep subsidizing them to the tune of $28M/yr forever. It still doesn't change the issue that we're only generating $13M/yr, with expenses of $25M. We need to increase our revenue substantially. But Houston is living on borrowed time.

[jonathanjoseph]

Yep. And building a too small stadium made sense only to Dickson. I guarantee that Dannen would not have built a 23k stadium.

But that's where there is supposed to be legal responsibility and corporate governance measures to prevent disasters of such magnitude. Tulane Board Members could be financially ruined for allowing this to happen, which is why I think they ought to open up their checkbooks for whatever Troy Dannen needs and asks for. They enabled this mess, they are legally liable for it and they should fix it.

Then take legal action rather than post hundreds of complaints on an Internet bulletin board.

I don't think you understand how that works.

What I know is that a couple hundred posts on this Internet Bulletin Board does NOTHING to affect the "legal responsibility and corporate governance" issues you claim the BOA neglected. You post this crap all the time. Why not do something about it if you feel so strongly that there is legal grounds for action?

Because I'm not a lawyer and it's not my decision to make and I don't have the time to undertake something like that? Those are a few common sense reasons off the top of my head.

Just in case you weren't aware, nothing posted here has much influence over anything done at the Board level at Tulane. Also should be common sense.

Does everyone here who posts about stadium expansion have the responsibility to hire architects to draw up plans? C'mon.

[jonathanjoseph]

Why not do something about it if you feel so strongly that there is legal grounds for action?

Yeah, that. Or STFU.

Cool. So unless you want to "do something" about my posting you should STFU. See how that works both ways?

[jonathanjoseph]

Yes, their revenue generated is $26M, while their expenses are $55M. How long do you think they can keep going like that before it implodes? You're the one that keeps saying the education bubble is about to hit and they're going to start seeing declining enrollment. The university can't keep subsidizing them to the tune of $28M/yr forever. It still doesn't change the issue that we're only generating $13M/yr, with expenses of $25M. We need to increase our revenue substantially. But Houston is living on borrowed time.

As MBA noted, the FIesta Bowl wins was worth tens of millions in branding and exposure. So they only lost money if you are looking at cash flow only.

Meanwhile, UH has a $1.5B annual budget. $20M is about ~1% of their annual budget. It's not hard to allocate that money at all. They can continue "losing" $20M in cash per year pretty much forever.

[glennc]

Winwave, Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately I don't think we are any better than when we played in the dome and i don't think it is going to get better.

[GreenLantern]

Meanwhile, UH has a $1.5B annual budget. $20M is about ~1% of their annual budget. It's not hard to allocate that money at all. They can continue "losing" $20M in cash per year pretty much forever.

It's only 1.3% off the bottom line. Granted, UH is not a wholly profit-driven entity but your statement is a little naïve and sounds as if you've never had to face an angry board of directors. Many people have lost their jobs because of a .1% hit to the bottom line.

[HoustonWave]

One other thing . If a AAC stadium should seat 35,000 to 40,000 could tulane be forced out of the league.

This is the $64 question left intentionally unaddressed in my post. It does appear that Aresco is dissatisfied with us. It is not a good sign going forward for us; our best course is to return to MBSD, turn Cow/Dick into an IPF and basketball facility or into just an IPF and build new basketball facilities on now closed McCalister Drive.

It was left unaddressed because its a stupid question, probably not worth 64 cents, much less $64. You don't accept a school into a conference knowing they're building a 22K seat stadium, then tell them after the fact its too small and kick them out. Stupidity.

Yeah I agree with this - we shouldn't be worried about being kicked out of the AAC in the foreseeable future and we don't need to worry about changing or modifying our football game day facility until (1) a better conference requires us to make changes in order for us to gain entry in that conference or (2) we consistently sell out Yulman and we need to expand to accommodate the demand for fans.

Ah the proverbial chicken of the egg.

Despite not being abe to fill their previous stadium, the University of Houston went out and built a $130mm stadium that can seat 42k plus and has all the bells and whistles including support assets (meeting rooms, weight room, training rooms, offices etc.). This is a big reason why their recruiting has increased drastically and they were able to retain Tom Herman. A 23k Yulman with crap support assets will leave us with an up hill climb when competing against the rest of the AAC on the field and in recruiting, never mind retaining good coaches.

Yep.

Maybe a bigger reason why they were able to retain Tom Herman is because the University is subsidizing the Athletic Dept to the tune of $28M PER YEAR. 1) We can't afford that, and 2) that's not sustainable for long, even at Houston. If they don't get in now, they're in big trouble.

There's a missing piece here. That subsidy or any deficit has nothing to do with the facilities they've built. That's for their operating budget. They were able to retain Herman because they have the facilities so that he can build as big a football program as he wants.

Second of all, we could absolutely afford $28M if we wanted to, but we don't. Apparently having title to rare book collections at the library takes precedent, and satellite campuses in MS, etc.

Yes, their revenue generated is $26M, while their expenses are $55M. How long do you think they can keep going like that before it implodes? You're the one that keeps saying the education bubble is about to hit and they're going to start seeing declining enrollment. The university can't keep subsidizing them to the tune of $28M/yr forever. It still doesn't change the issue that we're only generating $13M/yr, with expenses of $25M. We need to increase our revenue substantially. But Houston is living on borrowed time.

Their president has publicly acknowledged this very point--they cannot sustain the $28MM/year subsidy. and that deficit includes whatever the net is from their new stadium. While we may worry about the operational profit/loss on Yulman, UH has an even bigger hill to climb in that respect. Historically, they have not drawn a lot more fans than we have, but they have a much more expensive stadium to maintain. Currently the gamble is working for them, and has them on the front porch of the Big XII. But if for whatever reason they don't get in the Big XII now, they got big problems, bigger than any of ours. If they don't get in now, Herman is gone, and their athletic budget will start rapidly shrinking by up to $30MM/year--and they will still have to maintain a 42,000 seat $200MM+ stadium that won't have any more fannies in it than ours. For UH, the Big XII decision is monstrously huge--they have put all their chips (including borrowed ones) on the table.

[jonathanjoseph]

Meanwhile, UH has a $1.5B annual budget. $20M is about ~1% of their annual budget. It's not hard to allocate that money at all. They can continue "losing" $20M in cash per year pretty much forever.

It's only 1.3% off the bottom line. Granted, UH is not a wholly profit-driven entity but your statement is a little naïve and sounds as if you've never had to face an angry board of directors. Many people have lost their jobs because of a .1% hit to the bottom line.

Except they clearly believe it's the right thing to do as evidenced by the financial investment. They understand why running the "deficit" is worth it and why investing in the facilities is worth it. I'm not guessing this, this is what they've clearly decided as evidenced by a >$200M capital outlay.

That's what Boards and CEOs do. They make the hard decisions that always leave some parties feeling like they got the short end of the stick. So yes I'm quite familiar with Board dynamics. In my analogy, yes some $60K/year tenured librarians would lose their job.

[jonathanjoseph]

One other thing . If a AAC stadium should seat 35,000 to 40,000 could tulane be forced out of the league.

This is the $64 question left intentionally unaddressed in my post. It does appear that Aresco is dissatisfied with us. It is not a good sign going forward for us; our best course is to return to MBSD, turn Cow/Dick into an IPF and basketball facility or into just an IPF and build new basketball facilities on now closed McCalister Drive.

It was left unaddressed because its a stupid question, probably not worth 64 cents, much less $64. You don't accept a school into a conference knowing they're building a 22K seat stadium, then tell them after the fact its too small and kick them out. Stupidity.

Yeah I agree with this - we shouldn't be worried about being kicked out of the AAC in the foreseeable future and we don't need to worry about changing or modifying our football game day facility until (1) a better conference requires us to make changes in order for us to gain entry in that conference or (2) we consistently sell out Yulman and we need to expand to accommodate the demand for fans.

Ah the proverbial chicken of the egg.

Despite not being abe to fill their previous stadium, the University of Houston went out and built a $130mm stadium that can seat 42k plus and has all the bells and whistles including support assets (meeting rooms, weight room, training rooms, offices etc.). This is a big reason why their recruiting has increased drastically and they were able to retain Tom Herman. A 23k Yulman with crap support assets will leave us with an up hill climb when competing against the rest of the AAC on the field and in recruiting, never mind retaining good coaches.

Yep.

Maybe a bigger reason why they were able to retain Tom Herman is because the University is subsidizing the Athletic Dept to the tune of $28M PER YEAR. 1) We can't afford that, and 2) that's not sustainable for long, even at Houston. If they don't get in now, they're in big trouble.

There's a missing piece here. That subsidy or any deficit has nothing to do with the facilities they've built. That's for their operating budget. They were able to retain Herman because they have the facilities so that he can build as big a football program as he wants.

Second of all, we could absolutely afford $28M if we wanted to, but we don't. Apparently having title to rare book collections at the library takes precedent, and satellite campuses in MS, etc.

Yes, their revenue generated is $26M, while their expenses are $55M. How long do you think they can keep going like that before it implodes? You're the one that keeps saying the education bubble is about to hit and they're going to start seeing declining enrollment. The university can't keep subsidizing them to the tune of $28M/yr forever. It still doesn't change the issue that we're only generating $13M/yr, with expenses of $25M. We need to increase our revenue substantially. But Houston is living on borrowed time.

Their president has publicly acknowledged this very point--they cannot sustain the $28MM/year subsidy. and that deficit includes whatever the net is from their new stadium. While we may worry about the operational profit/loss on Yulman, UH has an even bigger hill to climb in that respect. Historically, they have not drawn a lot more fans than we have, but they have a much more expensive stadium to maintain. Currently the gamble is working for them, and has them on the front porch of the Big XII. But if for whatever reason they don't get in the Big XII now, they got big problems, bigger than any of ours. If they don't get in now, Herman is gone, and their athletic budget will start rapidly shrinking by up to $30MM/year--and they will still have to maintain a 42,000 seat $200MM+ stadium that won't have any more fannies in it than ours. For UH, the Big XII decision is monstrously huge--they have put all their chips (including borrowed ones) on the table.

I would be very surprised to see that be the case. The Big12 wasn't going to expand anytime soon as recently as 2 months ago. They couldn't have expected it to fully realize in 2016 with a P5 invite much less it be that or nothing.

No one can sustain massive losses in perpetuity, but unless they are mismanaged they should be able to push forward for years at this rate.

[ajcalhoun]

Why not do something about it if you feel so strongly that there is legal grounds for action?

Yeah, that. Or STFU.

Cool. So unless you want to "do something" about my posting you should STFU. See how that works both ways?

[HoustonWave]

One other thing . If a AAC stadium should seat 35,000 to 40,000 could tulane be forced out of the league.

This is the $64 question left intentionally unaddressed in my post. It does appear that Aresco is dissatisfied with us. It is not a good sign going forward for us; our best course is to return to MBSD, turn Cow/Dick into an IPF and basketball facility or into just an IPF and build new basketball facilities on now closed McCalister Drive.

It was left unaddressed because its a stupid question, probably not worth 64 cents, much less $64. You don't accept a school into a conference knowing they're building a 22K seat stadium, then tell them after the fact its too small and kick them out. Stupidity.

Yeah I agree with this - we shouldn't be worried about being kicked out of the AAC in the foreseeable future and we don't need to worry about changing or modifying our football game day facility until (1) a better conference requires us to make changes in order for us to gain entry in that conference or (2) we consistently sell out Yulman and we need to expand to accommodate the demand for fans.

Ah the proverbial chicken of the egg.

Despite not being abe to fill their previous stadium, the University of Houston went out and built a $130mm stadium that can seat 42k plus and has all the bells and whistles including support assets (meeting rooms, weight room, training rooms, offices etc.). This is a big reason why their recruiting has increased drastically and they were able to retain Tom Herman. A 23k Yulman with crap support assets will leave us with an up hill climb when competing against the rest of the AAC on the field and in recruiting, never mind retaining good coaches.

Yep.

Maybe a bigger reason why they were able to retain Tom Herman is because the University is subsidizing the Athletic Dept to the tune of $28M PER YEAR. 1) We can't afford that, and 2) that's not sustainable for long, even at Houston. If they don't get in now, they're in big trouble.

There's a missing piece here. That subsidy or any deficit has nothing to do with the facilities they've built. That's for their operating budget. They were able to retain Herman because they have the facilities so that he can build as big a football program as he wants.

Second of all, we could absolutely afford $28M if we wanted to, but we don't. Apparently having title to rare book collections at the library takes precedent, and satellite campuses in MS, etc.

Yes, their revenue generated is $26M, while their expenses are $55M. How long do you think they can keep going like that before it implodes? You're the one that keeps saying the education bubble is about to hit and they're going to start seeing declining enrollment. The university can't keep subsidizing them to the tune of $28M/yr forever. It still doesn't change the issue that we're only generating $13M/yr, with expenses of $25M. We need to increase our revenue substantially. But Houston is living on borrowed time.

Their president has publicly acknowledged this very point--they cannot sustain the $28MM/year subsidy. and that deficit includes whatever the net is from their new stadium. While we may worry about the operational profit/loss on Yulman, UH has an even bigger hill to climb in that respect. Historically, they have not drawn a lot more fans than we have, but they have a much more expensive stadium to maintain. Currently the gamble is working for them, and has them on the front porch of the Big XII. But if for whatever reason they don't get in the Big XII now, they got big problems, bigger than any of ours. If they don't get in now, Herman is gone, and their athletic budget will start rapidly shrinking by up to $30MM/year--and they will still have to maintain a 42,000 seat $200MM+ stadium that won't have any more fannies in it than ours. For UH, the Big XII decision is monstrously huge--they have put all their chips (including borrowed ones) on the table.

I would be very surprised to see that be the case. The Big12 wasn't going to expand anytime soon as recently as 2 months ago. They couldn't have expected it to fully realize in 2016 with a P5 invite much less it be that or nothing.

No one can sustain massive losses in perpetuity, but unless they are mismanaged they should be able to push forward for years at this rate.

I'm just telling you what their president has said. She didn't actually say it publicly, I now recall it went public after some journalist was able to hack into the UH email system, and got ahold of some of her emails, wherein she said the current rate of athletic spend and deficits are not sustainable. They need a lot of revenue from somewhere, fast. Filling their 42,000 seat stadium would go along way toward solving the problem--but they don't draw well--never really have. If we can realize the same success on the field that UH has, we would routinely out draw them.

[RobertM320]

Meanwhile, UH has a $1.5B annual budget. $20M is about ~1% of their annual budget. It's not hard to allocate that money at all. They can continue "losing" $20M in cash per year pretty much forever.

It's only 1.3% off the bottom line. Granted, UH is not a wholly profit-driven entity but your statement is a little naïve and sounds as if you've never had to face an angry board of directors. Many people have lost their jobs because of a .1% hit to the bottom line.

Except they clearly believe it's the right thing to do as evidenced by the financial investment. They understand why running the "deficit" is worth it and why investing in the facilities is worth it. I'm not guessing this, this is what they've clearly decided as evidenced by a >$200M capital outlay.

That's what Boards and CEOs do. They make the hard decisions that always leave some parties feeling like they got the short end of the stick. So yes I'm quite familiar with Board dynamics. In my analogy, yes some $60K/year tenured librarians would lose their job.

Yeah, and Cowen and the BOA clearly believed that building a 22.6K seat stadium was the right thing to do, as evidenced by the financial investment. Just be cause they make a financial investment doesn't mean it was a GOOD investment. Who should understand that any better than Tulane fans?

[DfromCT]

Yeah, and Cowen and the BOA clearly believed that building a 22.6K seat stadium was the right thing to do, as evidenced by the financial investment. Just be cause they make a financial investment doesn't mean it was a GOOD investment. Who should understand that any better than Tulane fans?

320, I don't think we're comparing apples to apples, as Cowen is more of a grapefruit. His intentions may have been good, but his execution was horrible especially caving to the NIMBY's. One thing I have to say about the investment UH made: They ended up with a very nice looking P5 caliber stadium. If they don't get into the Big 12, they're still positioned and looking like a solid P5 candidate. Could it be they gambled and lost? Absolutely. But at the same time, we have a stadium that would need to be expanded to be a viable P5 venue. Our investment reflects the ridiculously low ambitions of the President that built it.