Teddy Veal... Reinstated!

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sader24
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:12 pm

I'm no lawyer but 20k for rape makes me think the judge didn't think too much of the accusations.


JerseyWave
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:25 pm

Shouldn't Tulane have to explain how a passed out drunk high school girl ended up in one of their dorm rooms?
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OUG
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:38 pm

JerseyWave wrote:Shouldn't Tulane have to explain how a passed out drunk high school girl ended up in one of their dorm rooms?
Why? She was on campus for a visit. She was 18 (e.g., an adult that makes adult decisions).
mbawavefan12
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:40 pm

JerseyWave wrote:Shouldn't Tulane have to explain how a passed out drunk high school girl ended up in one of their dorm rooms?

Apparently she was an athletic chaperone, which makes the situation stranger.

What I don't understand, and this is purely speculative, is how can sex with the first dude be consensual but then with the second she was too drunk?
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 4:55 pm

sader24 wrote:I'm no lawyer but 20k for rape makes me think the judge didn't think too much of the accusations.
Veal is charged with "simple rape" defined for Louisiana law as follows:

§43. Simple rape

A. Simple rape is a rape committed when the anal, oral, or vaginal sexual intercourse is deemed to be without the lawful consent of a victim because it is committed under any one or more of the following circumstances:

(1) When the victim is incapable of resisting or of understanding the nature of the act by reason of a stupor or abnormal condition of mind produced by an intoxicating agent or any cause and the offender knew or should have known of the victim's incapacity.

(2) When the victim, through unsoundness of mind, is temporarily or permanently incapable of understanding the nature of the act and the offender knew or should have known of the victim's incapacity.

(3) When the female victim submits under the belief that the person committing the act is her husband and such belief is intentionally induced by any artifice, pretense, or concealment practiced by the offender.

B. Whoever commits the crime of simple rape shall be imprisoned, with or without hard labor, without benefit of parole, probation, or suspension of sentence, for not more than twenty-five years.

________________________
Always tough to prove for intoxication even with absolute evidence of penetration- i.e. when did the sex occur, how drunk was she when the act occurred, what witnesses are there as to her state or degree of intoxication? And, by definition her memory of the events is in question since she is alleged to have been impaired from voluntary use of alcohol and/or drugs (And, rarely if ever, is there indisputable evidence for state or degree of intoxication - blood test or breathalyzer results; and, by the "next morning" test results of this kind are useless).
Last edited by Wave755 on Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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tpstulane
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:05 pm

Ch 4 just had a very positive report for this young man. I wouldn't be surprised if charges are refused.
His attorney said he was alone in his dorm room and the girl came into his room after a night of partying...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmrafno8wWc
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OUG
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:13 pm

Wave755 wrote:
sader24 wrote:I'm no lawyer but 20k for rape makes me think the judge didn't think too much of the accusations.
Veal is charged with "simple rape" defined for Louisiana law as follows:

§43. Simple rape

A. Simple rape is a rape committed when the anal, oral, or vaginal sexual intercourse is deemed to be without the lawful consent of a victim because it is committed under any one or more of the following circumstances:

(1) When the victim is incapable of resisting or of understanding the nature of the act by reason of a stupor or abnormal condition of mind produced by an intoxicating agent or any cause and the offender knew or should have known of the victim's incapacity.

(2) When the victim, through unsoundness of mind, is temporarily or permanently incapable of understanding the nature of the act and the offender knew or should have known of the victim's incapacity.

(3) When the female victim submits under the belief that the person committing the act is her husband and such belief is intentionally induced by any artifice, pretense, or concealment practiced by the offender.

B. Whoever commits the crime of simple rape shall be imprisoned, with or without hard labor, without benefit of parole, probation, or suspension of sentence, for not more than twenty-five years.

________________________
Always tough to prove for intoxication even with absolute evidence of penetration- i.e. when did the sex occur, how drunk was she when the act occurred, what witnesses are there as to her state or degree of intoxication? And, by definition her memory of the events is in question since she is alleged to have been impaired from voluntary use of alcohol and/or drugs (And, rarely if ever, is there indisputable evidence for state or degree of intoxication - blood test or breathalyzer results; and, by the "next morning" test results of this kind are useless).
I think in her affidavit she concedes that she had been drinking and partying. I don't think she is disputing that.

She says she "awoke" to Veal having sex with her, which means she was VERY drunk (enough to be passed out). So, the question is, how could she have been sober enough to consent to the roommate, but not Veal? Something about this story doesn't add up.

I tend to give the victim the benefit of the doubt, but its hard to see how this all fits together. And the key is that Veal was alone in his room when she came in, so... it isn't like he got her drunk or was being predatory. There are not witnesses indicating that, from what I've seen. There's no circumstantial evidence (and I'm assuming no physical evidence -- we would know at this point) to support her version of events.
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:14 pm

If the DA refuses charges, legal action should be taken against the compliant and the NOLA police dept for false arrest and a civil suit of damage to his reputation. If the charges are refused or dropped Tulane should welcome this man back to the team and the University Student body.. if this is not done, sue Tulane... especially after the Tulane admin allowed a convicted Murderer to be a part of the student body .( I am not an Attorney, but I played one on TV )
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:23 pm

one other question... what was she doing in HIS room... was she kicked out of the roommates room whom she wanted to have sex with? Lucy, somebody got one hell of a lot of 'splannin to do !
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:27 pm

golfnut69 wrote:one other question... what was she doing in HIS room... was she kicked out of the roommates room whom she wanted to have sex with? Lucy, somebody got one hell of a lot of 'splannin to do !
That's the thing -- It's a dorm. I don't think they have their own rooms, I think its a shared room. Which makes this stranger.
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:35 pm

OUG wrote:
golfnut69 wrote:one other question... what was she doing in HIS room... was she kicked out of the roommates room whom she wanted to have sex with? Lucy, somebody got one hell of a lot of 'splannin to do !
That's the thing -- It's a dorm. I don't think they have their own rooms, I think its a shared room. Which makes this stranger.
The Channel 4 interview said he was alone in HIS dorm room and she came in. when I was in college we had a suite..there were 4 rooms which shared a large common bath and shower area.. each player had his own room, but shared the bath suite with three others.
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OUG
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:43 pm

golfnut69 wrote:
OUG wrote:
golfnut69 wrote:one other question... what was she doing in HIS room... was she kicked out of the roommates room whom she wanted to have sex with? Lucy, somebody got one hell of a lot of 'splannin to do !
That's the thing -- It's a dorm. I don't think they have their own rooms, I think its a shared room. Which makes this stranger.
The Channel 4 interview said he was alone in HIS dorm room and she came in. when I was in college we had a suite..there were 4 rooms which shared a large common bath and shower area.. each player had his own room, but shared the bath suite with three others.
It also said he lives in the honors dorm, which is Butler. That dorm is double occupancy.
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Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:54 pm

What football player is he rooming with? Do they have any restrictions on women or men spending the night with the room occupantsin Butler our honors dorm? Who has his attorney represented in the past? Even if he is found not guilty his reputation and career at Tulane is toast. What a great athlete. Let us not form opinions and see where the facts lead us. The DA's office would not have pressed charges unless they had a reasonable case. :lol: Remember under our legal system we are innocent until proven guilty by our peers in a court of law!
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:35 am

Jonathan wrote:What football player is he rooming with? Do they have any restrictions on women or men spending the night with the room occupantsin Butler our honors dorm? Who has his attorney represented in the past? Even if he is found not guilty his reputation and career at Tulane is toast. What a great athlete. Let us not form opinions and see where the facts lead us. The DA's office would not have pressed charges unless they had a reasonable case. :lol: Remember under our legal system we are innocent until proven guilty by our peers in a court of law!
To answer some of the non-sarcastic, actual questions in that post, you can check in a guest to any dorm if you have a chaperone. The guest has to leave their ID at the desk and must be chaperoned at all times. Chick Foret is a very competent attorney and is very experienced. He is a former federal prosecutor. I know he has represented some of the Saints when they have been in trouble over the years. I also saw Robert Jenkins in that video. Jenkins has been involved in a lot of high profile cases and is well connected, but he's not known for his great legal skills. The family was smart to hire Foret. The case hasn't gone through the entire screening process in the DA's office yet. They should have an answer soon on whether or not the DA will pursue the case. I think something is fishy about the girl's story and I don't think they are going to be able to get a conviction in Orleans Parish against Veal unless there is some kind of smoking gun out there (which there doesn't appear to be). It's basically a he said/she said. It took them over a week to arrest Veal which means either this girl took a week to report the alleged rape or the police weren't completely convinced. He talked to the detectives and fully cooperated....that's not something that guilty people usually do. He very well could be guilty but unless there is a lot more evidence out there of guilt (i.e.- what does the roommate say happened?), I don't think you can convict him. But, I agree that this is going to follow Veal whether he did it or not. You can't erase all of this stuff from the internet.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:37 am

Jonathan wrote:What football player is he rooming with? Do they have any restrictions on women or men spending the night with the room occupantsin Butler our honors dorm? Who has his attorney represented in the past? Even if he is found not guilty his reputation and career at Tulane is toast. What a great athlete. Let us not form opinions and see where the facts lead us. The DA's office would not have pressed charges unless they had a reasonable case. :lol: Remember under our legal system we are innocent until proven guilty by our peers in a court of law!
Jonathan, I graduated almost 30 years ago, and there was no restrictions on women spending the night in a man's dorm room when I was on campus freshman year. As a matter of fact, I lived in Monroe most of the year, and it was amusing to see the women come out when we had the ridiculous fire drills (and a real fire in the electrical room) at the wee hours of the morning.

I don't think Teddy is toast at Tulane. If innocent, I think he'll have a stigma that can be overcome by showing his smarts in the classroom and playing good football. I'm hoping the young lady made a mistake, and that he's innocent. If that's the case, it's a really bad deal for Teddy. If he's guilty, on the other hand, his football days are probably over.

Let's hope for Teddy's sake he's innocent.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:23 am

Not that I have an opinion his innocence, but this is terrible timing for this to happen a week after the NY Times investigation about how the Jameis Winston case was handled. No athletic department or DA wants to deal with perceived favoritism in a he said/she said situation because the accused is an Athlete. It sucks that his name is being dragged thru the mud, but it would have sucked a ton more for Tulane if TUPD or the athletic dept had to answer questions about why they didn't follow proper procedures if it turns out he's guilty.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:50 am

Having worked as a law clerk for a judge for 3 years and having seen "up close" these kind of cases, getting a conviction at Tulane & Broad will be very, very difficult if Cannizzaro accepts the charges. And, if the "victim" is in anyway unlikable, forget about it, not guilty; and, most defense attorneys will try to load the jury box with women who are notorious for being really tough on other women. And, the whole "I only agreed to have sex with one of the players stuff" won't play well in court and many jurors, in particular the women, will not want to "ruin a young man's life" for a set of facts the "victim" played such a central role in creating.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:44 am

TU23 wrote:
Jonathan wrote:What football player is he rooming with? Do they have any restrictions on women or men spending the night with the room occupantsin Butler our honors dorm? Who has his attorney represented in the past? Even if he is found not guilty his reputation and career at Tulane is toast. What a great athlete. Let us not form opinions and see where the facts lead us. The DA's office would not have pressed charges unless they had a reasonable case. :lol: Remember under our legal system we are innocent until proven guilty by our peers in a court of law!
To answer some of the non-sarcastic, actual questions in that post, you can check in a guest to any dorm if you have a chaperone. The guest has to leave their ID at the desk and must be chaperoned at all times. Chick Foret is a very competent attorney and is very experienced. He is a former federal prosecutor. I know he has represented some of the Saints when they have been in trouble over the years. I also saw Robert Jenkins in that video. Jenkins has been involved in a lot of high profile cases and is well connected, but he's not known for his great legal skills. The family was smart to hire Foret. The case hasn't gone through the entire screening process in the DA's office yet. They should have an answer soon on whether or not the DA will pursue the case. I think something is fishy about the girl's story and I don't think they are going to be able to get a conviction in Orleans Parish against Veal unless there is some kind of smoking gun out there (which there doesn't appear to be). It's basically a he said/she said. It took them over a week to arrest Veal which means either this girl took a week to report the alleged rape or the police weren't completely convinced. He talked to the detectives and fully cooperated....that's not something that guilty people usually do. He very well could be guilty but unless there is a lot more evidence out there of guilt (i.e.- what does the roommate say happened?), I don't think you can convict him. But, I agree that this is going to follow Veal whether he did it or not. You can't erase all of this stuff from the internet.
I have a friend who engaged in some really bad judgement/bad behavior when he was younger. I didn't know this when I met him. Someone told me to google him, and I did. It's not rape -- but its definitely stuff that I'm sure he'd have to answer well in a job interview.

In the end... I've never discussed it with him, and I don't judge him for hit. We've all done things we're not proud of. And he's got a great job now as an attorney and the bar review board certainly didn't care about it.

People generally like to give you second chances in life. The accusations will always be a part of his life, but they won't define him.

This is all assuming that he doesn't get convicted, and his biggest problem is the accusations on the internet.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:51 am

Wave755 wrote:Having worked as a law clerk for a judge for 3 years and having seen "up close" these kind of cases, getting a conviction at Tulane & Broad will be very, very difficult if Cannizzaro accepts the charges. And, if the "victim" is in anyway unlikable, forget about it, not guilty; and, most defense attorneys will try to load the jury box with women who are notorious for being really tough on other women. And, the whole "I only agreed to have sex with one of the players stuff" won't play well in court and many jurors, in particular the women, will not want to "ruin a young man's life" for a set of facts the "victim" played such a central role in creating.
That is so true -- the majority of women are tougher on rape accusers in a jury box than they are on the defendant. There's been a lot of psychological study into it, but the consensus seems to be that women don't want to feel vulnerable, as if this could happen to them. As a result, it is much easier for them to think "she did something wrong, she shouldn't have put herself in that situation, she got what she should have expected..." Or, they just flat out don't believe her because women are less likely to trust other women. This goes against everything you would assume as a man, but its real. And defense attorneys know it, and know how to exploit it to create reasonable doubt.

As I said above, these cases are very difficult to obtain a conviction on. They're even tougher to obtain a conviction on when the D/A knows that there's a talented defense attorney on the opposite side of the case.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:02 pm

OUG wrote:
Wave755 wrote:Having worked as a law clerk for a judge for 3 years and having seen "up close" these kind of cases, getting a conviction at Tulane & Broad will be very, very difficult if Cannizzaro accepts the charges. And, if the "victim" is in anyway unlikable, forget about it, not guilty; and, most defense attorneys will try to load the jury box with women who are notorious for being really tough on other women. And, the whole "I only agreed to have sex with one of the players stuff" won't play well in court and many jurors, in particular the women, will not want to "ruin a young man's life" for a set of facts the "victim" played such a central role in creating.
That is so true -- the majority of women are tougher on rape accusers in a jury box than they are on the defendant. There's been a lot of psychological study into it, but the consensus seems to be that women don't want to feel vulnerable, as if this could happen to them. As a result, it is much easier for them to think "she did something wrong, she shouldn't have put herself in that situation, she got what she should have expected..." Or, they just flat out don't believe her because women are less likely to trust other women. This goes against everything you would assume as a man, but its real. And defense attorneys know it, and know how to exploit it to create reasonable doubt.

As I said above, these cases are very difficult to obtain a conviction on. They're even tougher to obtain a conviction on when the D/A knows that there's a talented defense attorney on the opposite side of the case.
And, Chick Foret is a great choice to defend this kid! And, Cannizarro already knows the conviction rate for this kind of case is very low even in places like St. Tammany, much less Tulane & Broad where I can't recall in the last 25 years anyone being convicted on these kind of facts. Still, tough for any D.A. to simply Nol Pros the case.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 12:10 pm

Wave755 wrote:
OUG wrote:
Wave755 wrote:Having worked as a law clerk for a judge for 3 years and having seen "up close" these kind of cases, getting a conviction at Tulane & Broad will be very, very difficult if Cannizzaro accepts the charges. And, if the "victim" is in anyway unlikable, forget about it, not guilty; and, most defense attorneys will try to load the jury box with women who are notorious for being really tough on other women. And, the whole "I only agreed to have sex with one of the players stuff" won't play well in court and many jurors, in particular the women, will not want to "ruin a young man's life" for a set of facts the "victim" played such a central role in creating.
That is so true -- the majority of women are tougher on rape accusers in a jury box than they are on the defendant. There's been a lot of psychological study into it, but the consensus seems to be that women don't want to feel vulnerable, as if this could happen to them. As a result, it is much easier for them to think "she did something wrong, she shouldn't have put herself in that situation, she got what she should have expected..." Or, they just flat out don't believe her because women are less likely to trust other women. This goes against everything you would assume as a man, but its real. And defense attorneys know it, and know how to exploit it to create reasonable doubt.

As I said above, these cases are very difficult to obtain a conviction on. They're even tougher to obtain a conviction on when the D/A knows that there's a talented defense attorney on the opposite side of the case.
And, Chick Foret is a great choice to defend this kid! And, Cannizarro already knows the conviction rate for this kind of case is very low even in places like St. Tammany, much less Tulane & Broad where I can't recall in the last 25 years anyone being convicted on these kind of facts. Still, tough for any D.A. to simply Nol Pros the case.
The connection to the NOPD does hurt his chances of avoiding a trial. I just hope all parties are treated fairly, but I have my doubts.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:17 pm

OUG wrote:
sader24 wrote:Stop using the high school girl B.s. The girl is 18 and Veal is 17. She's older than he is, he's only ahead of her in school bc he graduated from high school early.
+1. Funny how language gets thrown around as a way to bias things. By the way, if she was 18 and a student at Tulane, would it change things in anyway? No.
17 is the legal age of consent in Louisiana, so no. Also, obviously in an accusation of rape, the consent laws don't apply anyway.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:23 pm

tpstulane wrote:Ch 4 just had a very positive report for this young man. I wouldn't be surprised if charges are refused.
His attorney said he was alone in his dorm room and the girl came into his room after a night of partying...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmrafno8wWc
Being an honor student, an engineering major, and so forth doesn't mean he's innocent. The fact that she came to his room doesn't mean he didn't rape her. If he had sex with her without consent, and passed out women can't consent, then he's guilty of rape, and needs to serve time in prison.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:27 pm

Before you become so judgemental and convict him; remember he is presumed innocent prior and during trial. We have seen no facts in this case. Witness testimony or DNA etc.
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Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:37 pm

Robert1969 wrote:
tpstulane wrote:Ch 4 just had a very positive report for this young man. I wouldn't be surprised if charges are refused.
His attorney said he was alone in his dorm room and the girl came into his room after a night of partying...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmrafno8wWc
Being an honor student, an engineering major, and so forth doesn't mean he's innocent. The fact that she came to his room doesn't mean he didn't rape her. If he had sex with her without consent, and passed out women can't consent, then he's guilty of rape, and needs to serve time in prison.
No, but if you don't think that this type of circumstantial or character evidence isn't going to matter in pre-trial or trial in a case where for all we know there is no physical evidence, you're being a bit naive.

Remember, they need to prove he did this beyond a reasonable doubt. Most of their evidence is going to be her account, plus circumstantial evidence. The defense will use circumstantial evidence and character evidence to counter that.
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