Message to Graff

[TURVS71]

Heard you mention the "forum" on the Marshall broadcast today. I think you are aware of this site and just wanted you to know that we LOVE Tulane here(I am at almost every event!). It's just that we allow all thoughts and opinions and we all desire that Tulane have success and become the best athletic program possible.

Hope you will keep us in mind!!

Thanks and ROLL WAVE!!

[RWR]

I heard that too. As an employee of Tulane athletics if he post on one site he should copy it to all sites such as this one and nola.com. It's the only proffesional way to handle it.

[jonathanjoseph]

This is why I will continue to note that YOGWF is a problem for Tulane athletics. Rightly or wrongly, it does have the most traffic and is perceived to be the official forum of Tulane Athletics. That's why the hypocrisy and dishonest admins need to be called out.

[Fred Dowler]

This is why I will continue to note that YOGWF is a problem for Tulane athletics. Rightly or wrongly, it does have the most traffic and is perceived to be the official forum of Tulane Athletics. That's why the hypocrisy and dishonest admins need to be called out.

The main people who operate that site and have been operating it since about 2001, I think, are much too close to the Tulane administration.

The original creator of that site was, let's just say, a character and not someone that anyone and everyone might have been comfortable around all of the time but that person did strive to both get the story on what was going on with the main sports programs and maintain some degree of independence as well as fairness to players and coaches.

The ones who operate it now, even they aren't paid Tulane employees, might as well be paid Tulane employees -- because all that they ever do is attempt to relate how great things are.

Moreover, in the midst of all of the hullabaloo in 2003 these people seemed to want to be portraying themselves as independent "voices of the people" when in fact all along they were anything but that and in fact really were facilitating the administration insiders essentially co-opting the whole movement.

Instead of the movement really having been about fixing the issues -- and heaven knows that there are plenty of very serious issues that need to be fixed and all of that has already been gone over over and over, e.g. academics, spending, facilities and so on -- to make the Tulane athletics product one that is more marketable to more people, i.e. place the teams on a better footing where they win games, they made everything all about donating, donating, donating -- which is essentially offering up blind, unquestioning support to the administration. And they NEVER ever have had a critical word or even just a "this is questionable" statement to make about President Cowen or Rick Dickson. And if someone does offer criticism or a "this is questionable" statement then they are quickly told that they need to "shut up with their personal agenda."

[sader24]

If we're waiting for the people that run that site to suddenly have a complete change of heart we will be waiting till Tulane Athletics no longer exists. Building this site as the REAL site of Tulane Athletics is the only option. It seems that since it's started there's been a steady increase in people posting on this site. At least I hope there is. I still troll over there just to see what people over there are talking about, but that site will never get IT. It's just not going to happen. Hopefully, as most totalitarian regimes that site falls apart someday. At some point enough people will get banned and that site will become obsolete. Hopefully. I've enjoyed this site more than I ever enjoyed over there cause just one misstep and someone was threatening to ban you. It's ridiculous. It's a free country and people have opinions.

[Fred Dowler]

The story in 2003 should have been all about making the Tulane athletics product into an item that attracts a lot more paying customers, about forcing the Tulane administration to acknowledge that the financial problems that they were whining about were there at least in large part because of Tulane's own lack of commitment to winning games in the two important revenue-generating sports programs and about making the administration make necessary changes in order to give the programs a better chance to win.

And were aren't talking purely packaging-type issues, kickoff times, advertising strategy, etc.

Let's tell it like it is. There is only so far you can go to dress up a product that essentially is a poor product.

If the teams aren't winning games you really can't blame anyone for not wanting to spend their money on buying tickets. It's that simple.

However, that certain group of people, that self-appointed cabal, if you will, who still seem to want to portray themselves as the "voice of the masses" twisted the whole movement around and instead made the constant hard-sell and pressure tactics to make everyone just donate their money "because if you don't then Tulane will quit being in Div. 1..." and not even ask questions and of course they still do that.

Well, guess what, Tulane is hardly a legit Div. 1 operation now as we speak. It isn't that in its heart of hearts. And no "Big Announcement" or "Playbook" is about to change that fact. Really, those events just make them look sillier. The only thing that can be done is to win games, win very consistently and beat teams that people think are good teams along the way.

Tulane had just better do those things. Starting yesterday. Or else they really will have to call it a day both nominally and in every way for being in Div. 1. The fan base is very small -- no doubt that interest in Tulane sports other than maybe baseball is at or very near an all-time low -- and shrinking. OTOH in order for Tulane sports to be financially viable going forward in the 21st century, instead of the current group of regulars giving more and more as a result of the squeeze being placed on them by the cabal we're talking about, the number of regular paying customers is going to have to be at least, let's say, tripled in size, if not quadrupled.

Is there any chance of that happening with Cowen and Dickson around? I think we know the answer on that.

The only hope is that Cowen will retire very soon and then the next school administration will, deep in its heart, truly want to have winning Div. 1 football and/or men's basketball (as opposed to just playing a con game).

[RWR]

Fred- Good post and I agree w/all but the very end. There is no place for "or" . We have to have winning football or they can shut it down. If the implication is to do away w/football and just have basketball remember that means leaving cusa and going sunbelt or southland and we ain't going there. Not saying you said that but just in case I want it to be clear what that would mean.

[sader24]

If Tulane Athletics were a restaurant would anyone ever go back? Outside of baseball when's the last time anyone has left a game and felt like they got their money's worth or satisfied? They can dress it up any way they like but at the end of the day business is about the product and the product sucks. Like I said a month ago, I completed 4 business plans in my last semester at LSU that were far more thought out, in-depth, extensive, and detailed than THE PLAYBOOK. I didn't get A's for all those plans either. I also didn't show up 15 minutes late for any of my presentations of these plans to the class. They take a Division 1 college football program way less seriously than a B student took his LSU Management class that was 1 grade out of 120 or so in college. The fact is that playbook would've gotten a D in a LSU Business class. Cowen is supposed to be the head of a top 50 university and that was the piece of sh*t he rolled out. That was in essence supposed to be a Business Plan/Playbook about how to fix Tulane Football and they completely half-a$$ed it if not quarter-a$$ed it. I wish I had the oppurtunity to write a business plan about how to fix Tulane Football. I would do it for free and I guarantee whether or not everyone agreed with every point they would agree that it was well thought out, feasible and backed up with actual figures and statistics. I would do a great job with it because it's something I care about and I've been obsessed with my whole life. These guys are making hundreds of thousands of dollars per year and this is their job and they treated this "oppurtunity" like an aggravation. I saw very little heart, effort, or just giving a sh*t in that thing.

[Fred Dowler]

Fred- Good post and I agree w/all but the very end. There is no place for "or" . We have to have winning football or they can shut it down. If the implication is to do away w/football and just have basketball remember that means leaving cusa and going sunbelt or southland and we ain't going there. Not saying you said that but just in case I want it to be clear what that would mean.

That is a discussion for another day...but...since I have brought this thought out there are in fact several examples of private universities where basketball is the de facto featured sport and they do well year after year and have a decent following. I can name Duke and Wake Forest right away.

I will be honest about this. It's going to take a LOT to get football going to the point where the team is winning year after year and not just that but really being a force as in posting 8 and 9-win or better seasons and beating solid opponents year after year and the point is that posting such seasons year after year after year for at least 4-5 years is what it's going to take to make Tulane football relevant. I just happen to believe that the odds are right now pretty solidly stacked against this ever happening. I have a really hard time envisioning it.

No, football does NOT need to be completely done away with...but...it would be much easier (a lot fewer players, less resources required) to get basketball going to the point where that program is a solid consistent winner and becomes the de facto "featured" sport on campus IF Tulane wants to do something.

But right now, though, what's the de facto featured Tulane sports program? Baseball is. Not only that I see that circumstance as a product of design, i.e. Tulane wants this. And that's just not going to work even if the baseball program were doing big things, which it hasn't been doing lately. Tulane invested in the baseball stadium and has yet to be hosting an NCAA regional tournament there. Neither one of main two sports programs is getting anything done and so if basketball for its part was doing something, going somewhere, then that would definitely be a plus.

When Cowen and Dickson were taking over, basketball was making it to the postseason and having decent seasons and there was interest in it, i.e. it was doing well as a product of design. Remember when there were 10,000 people to see Tulane play Cincinnati (and Kenyon Martin) in the New Orleans arena? Where has that sport gone since then? And, again, basketball is the less challenging item to deal with between that and football. And I see this as what Tulane since 2000 has wanted to do.

The main point, though, is that the only thing one can do is hold on and wait until the next school administration takes over and see what they want to do (I just can't see how Cowen and Dickson are ever, ever actually going to want the football program to be winning year after year as a product of design and even if they somehow they did they've been so incompetent that it's still unlikely that they could bring the desired successful outcome about and especially given the strarting point even if they were competent it's still just not going to be that easy to get it done with football) and no one should be blamed for being reticent about buying tickets and making donations and if anyone is following a personal agenda it's the same old cabal who operate the other forum (their only agenda is to make Pres. Cowen and Rick Dickson look good).

[sader24]

I really don't think making football that competitive in this conference is as big of an uphill battle as we've made it. Many would've agree with your statements after 96. 24 months later we were #7 in the country. We have a weak schedule in a talent rich area. I think if you give up on football and focus on basketball you would lose most of whatever's left of this tiny fanbase. At the end of the day there's no reason a competent administration couldn't field a very competitive football and basketball program at this University in this conference. Our problem is that we have an administration that is not only completely incompetent, they also don't really want a successful Division 1 athletic program. I really don't see any program succeeding on a consistent basis under this leadership. Cincinnati was #1 for that bball game and the Hornets didnt exist and Kenyon Martin was the best player in the country. It was much more of a crowd interested in seeing Kenyon Martin than a Tulane crowd.

[RWR]

I really don't think making football that competitive in this conference is as big of an uphill battle as we've made it. Many would've agree with your statements after 96. 24 months later we were #7 in the country. We have a weak schedule in a talent rich area. I think if you give up on football and focus on basketball you would lose most of whatever's left of this tiny fanbase. At the end of the day there's no reason a competent administration couldn't field a very competitive football and basketball program at this University in this conference. Our problem is that we have an administration that is not only completely incompetent, they also don't really want a successful Division 1 athletic program. I really don't see any program succeeding on a consistent basis under this leadership. Cincinnati was #1 for that bball game and the Hornets didnt exist and Kenyon Martin was the best player in the country. It was much more of a crowd interested in seeing Kenyon Martin than a Tulane crowd.

+1

[Fred Dowler]

I really don't think making football that competitive in this conference is as big of an uphill battle as we've made it. Many would've agree with your statements after 96. 24 months later we were #7 in the country. We have a weak schedule in a talent rich area. I think if you give up on football and focus on basketball you would lose most of whatever's left of this tiny fanbase. At the end of the day there's no reason a competent administration couldn't field a very competitive football and basketball program at this University in this conference. Our problem is that we have an administration that is not only completely incompetent, they also don't really want a successful Division 1 athletic program. I really don't see any program succeeding on a consistent basis under this leadership. Cincinnati was #1 for that bball game and the Hornets didnt exist and Kenyon Martin was the best player in the country. It was much more of a crowd interested in seeing Kenyon Martin than a Tulane crowd.

My point is that as for the resources that are required, the talent and the depth of talent in players that Tulane will need to recruit, there's no question that "getting there" to the point of being a consistent winner and a generator of interest/regular following in football is a much more daunting task than getting there in basketball.

Also, there's the fact that getting there in basketball can be accomplished more quickly. I have my doubt that Tulane is in much of a position to be taking years to gradually build a consistent winner in football.

Some are optimistic that the school can turn football around and make that program into a consistent winner but have doubts that Tulane could be a "basketball school." I understand about the second part. I realize that the deep south and south LA is football country.

I just happen to not have that optimism about football. Rather, I have a lot of doubt that, especially given the starting point of where things stand right now in terms of interest in and respect for the program, Tulane can get it done in football or get it done within the time frame that I perceive that there is to work with until the school will have to make a decision for real on whether it's viable to keep going in Div. 1 (with the size of the regular following and the interest that there is in the main Tulane sports program, which we agree are Div. 1 pretty much in name only, and also the interest that there is in C-USA in general there's probably a more serious financial situation either at the present or else looming on the near term horizon than anyone is letting on) and not just fool around.

And by "get it done" I am talking about the program becoming a force that really and truly compels anyone and everyone to be interested in it and/or have respect for it.

If the football team wins 6-7 games this fall that's just not going to do it.

Let's be honest. C-USA is not highly-regarded. The statement that Tulane plays a weak schedule hit the nail on the head. That's exactly the way people see it.

Tulane has been losing games and also losing games against this weak schedule and thus that makes for a double-whammy.

Tulane will need, if they really want to have people respecting the program, instead to roll through the C-USA schedule and dominate the league like never before and then also take on the big name SEC, whoever programs (not just Ole Miss) and really show that they can stand up and play those teams tough time in and time out.

The more I think about what would really have to be done in football and where things stand right now the larger my doubts become.

That's just my own perception of the situation and I know others have their own thoughts but right now that difference of perceptions of the situation -- we can agree that things are fairly dire -- should not overshadow the point that this current school administration and the group who constantly butters up to them have done exceedingly great damage to the cause.

[sader24]

I agree that basketball can become an overnight top 30 team with one recruiting class. You can turn a basketball program around ASAP. That's been my problem with DIckson when he treats bball coaches like football coaches giving them 5 years or so to "build" a program. You don't really build a program in basketball like football. You build name recognition, but in today's game a bench player is a bench player and a starter is a starter from the day they step on campus. It's not like football where you need depth and redshirts. On that sentiment I totally agree with you. However, I think it's gonig to be hard to recruit in a weak basketball state with Fogleman. I think kids are more worried about the building they are going to play in than the building they are going to practice in. I've been away from basketball for a while, but I still don't understand the basketball practice facility when we have a rinky dink gym. I'm not saying its the wrong move I just need to have it explained. I've also never played on a team that had to contend with a women's basketball team and volleyball team so I could be categorized as ignorant on the situation, I'm just talking from a strictly Men's Basketball Perspective.

I disagree on football. I think the rewards for a successful football program in this area of the country far exceeds the risk and money put into it. A successful football program can increase the Tulane fanbase 10X what a successful basketball program can do. The amount of money, national recognition, publicity, and growth in fanbase and charitable giving to the University a successful football program can bring in in Louisiana is not even remotely comparable to what basketball can do. We traveled 25-30,000 to Memphis for the 12-0 season. How many did we travel to Memphis for Honeycutt and Crew in the NCAA Tourney? I agree it would be a tougher road to build it, but it's completely worth it and then some. The excitement a Top 25 program at this University would create as opposed to a top 10 basketball program (which ain't happenin with Fogleman in my opinion) isnt in the same stratosphere. It's worth the investment.

We both agree none of this is currently happening and the guys in charge probably couldn't make it happen even if they wanted to because they don't know what they're doing.

[jonathanjoseph]

This is a great discussion and all have good points. That no mention of this discussion or the reality of it's contents is even mentioned on the forum that TG portrayed as "the" Tulane forum is a huge disservice and badly damaging to Tulane University.