More Baseball Schollies?

[NOLABigSteve]

Curious though... why is baseball so much different vs. the other sports when it comes to scholarships, etc.? I mean, I understand how the situation is, but does anyone know the why?

One reason it's like that it is considered a non revenue sport so the number is limited.

FWIW, that explanation makes sense, but then it's like, why does the NCAA care if it's a non-revenue sport? What is it to them if the number is increased?

[winwave]

Regarding financial aid. Tulane meets 80% of total need. At Stanford a family household income less than 125K meets 100% no cost to the young man plus at last report 15K a year for travel cost which the NCAA has no role in. So let's say a player from NOLA had the grades to get in at Stanford and his family's income is less than 125K and he only flys home 3 times a year which is the normal he makes money and doesn't cost any scholarship money at all and they are in a Super Regional. Recently Tulane TOPS was less than 5K. Per NCAA rules coaches can have no involvement in legislative scholarships whatsoever. Whatsoever. The player has to get that on his own.

It's over $5k for TOPS at Tulane. Every little bit helps. As to the legislative scholarships the coaches can certainly explain the availability and the process. They can also establish relationships with legislators.

[winwave]

Curious though... why is baseball so much different vs. the other sports when it comes to scholarships, etc.? I mean, I understand how the situation is, but does anyone know the why?

One reason it's like that it is considered a non revenue sport so the number is limited.

FWIW, that explanation makes sense, but then it's like, why does the NCAA care if it's a non-revenue sport? What is it to them if the number is increased?

We agree. It's a crazy # too with .7 added on. I've never seen anyone post how they formulated that number.

[winwave]

TOPS is an interesting thing. Its called a scholarship, but in a lot of ways its need-based. How many kids at LSU or Southeastern could afford to go to college if they didn't have TOPS? So doesn't that imply a need? So technically TOPS type programs should be considered need based, not academic based, especially since the program was designed for kids who don't have the grades to get a true academic scholarship and can't afford to pay for college.

Maybe someone should sue the NCAA on this issue. If nothing else, it could force LSU, SELa and schools with similar programs to let some players slide. If you can slightly tilt an unlevel playing field just a bit, but do it numerous times, eventually it becomes level.

TOPS started out as need based. it's not anymore. The student just needs to meet a very minimum requirement to get it. The better their grades and score the more they can get from TOPS.

[anEngineer]

I get how it is. I guess my question is why is the NCAA allowed scholarship number so limited for baseball? I understand there are less players, and the teams are smaller. The current setup is just... strange.

On the surface, it does seem strange. Title IX required men's scholarships to get cut in relation to women's. Why would they decide that football and basketball would be fully funded and baseball would individually take the hit? Then you look at the socio-economic makeup of football and basketball rosters and it becomes more obvious. Football and basketball provide more opportunities for individuals who might not otherwise go to college than baseball would. Politics and social doctrine are no doubt key factors.

[RobertM320]

TOPS is an interesting thing. Its called a scholarship, but in a lot of ways its need-based. How many kids at LSU or Southeastern could afford to go to college if they didn't have TOPS? So doesn't that imply a need? So technically TOPS type programs should be considered need based, not academic based, especially since the program was designed for kids who don't have the grades to get a true academic scholarship and can't afford to pay for college.

Maybe someone should sue the NCAA on this issue. If nothing else, it could force LSU, SELa and schools with similar programs to let some players slide. If you can slightly tilt an unlevel playing field just a bit, but do it numerous times, eventually it becomes level.

TOPS started out as need based. it's not anymore. The student just needs to meet a very minimum requirement to get it. The better their grades and score the more they can get from TOPS.

When it started by Pat Taylor it wasn't even a specific amount. If you made a 2.5 GPA in HS, you got free tuition to any state college. Period. Then the legislature got a hold of it. First they capped the amount and allowed schools like LSU to charge over and above. Then they messed with the requirements. Its now just a state funded scholarship, and nothing at all like what Mr. Taylor really intended.

[winwave]

Mr. Taylor is not paying for it either. We are.

[mbawavefan12]

Mr. Taylor is not paying for it either. We are.

...and what has been our return on said investment?

[mbawavefan12]

I get how it is. I guess my question is why is the NCAA allowed scholarship number so limited for baseball? I understand there are less players, and the teams are smaller. The current setup is just... strange.

On the surface, it does seem strange. Title IX required men's scholarships to get cut in relation to women's. Why would they decide that football and basketball would be fully funded and baseball would individually take the hit? Then you look at the socio-economic makeup of football and basketball rosters and it becomes more obvious. Football and basketball provide more opportunities for individuals who might not otherwise go to college than baseball would. Politics and social doctrine are no doubt key factors.

I agree with the socio eco factors with bball and fball but they should be mutually exclusive from baseball. I still see no reason why the NCAA would attempt to limit a school from providing more scholarships regardless of the underlying economics.

[winwave]

Mr. Taylor is not paying for it either. We are.

...and what has been our return on said investment?

One of the rare breaks for the middle class.

[RobertM320]

Mr. Taylor is not paying for it either. We are.

Like I said, "then the legislature got hold of it."

[tpstulane]

Here we go again. Well written article supporting adding more baseball scholarships
https://www.northsidesun.com/opinion-co ... JO1e7.dpbs

[tpstulane]

Jake Mangum on his way out makes final plea to increase the 11.7
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories ... -baseball/

[mbawavefan12]

Jake Mangum on his way out makes final plea to increase the 11.7
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories ... -baseball/

The craziest aspect that is not discussed enough is the fact that the the 11.7 scholarship rule is strangling programs as more and more high school players are willing to take lesser pro offers because there are not enough college scholarships available. This hurts the baseball being played at the college level and thus hurts the NCAA baseball as a whole all while enriching pro teams. Essentially the NCAA is forcing many 18 year olds to take the much bigger gamble that they can make it to the majors as opposed to getting an education that can last a lifetime. Yet the NCAA admin, school presidents and ADs all claim it is all about supporting “student athletes”. They are scum. I try to figure out what is going on and one of the only theories I can come up with is that pro teams are pushing the scholarship limitations behind closed doors. It just doesn’t make sense to limit baseball while almost every other sport has all the scholarships that they would ever need. The other and more likely reality is that large state schools are benefiting from the limitations knowing full well that, comparatively, more baseball players would be drawn to academics so more scholarships would allow elite private academic schools more to sell the common ballplayer.

[tpstulane]

Jake Mangum on his way out makes final plea to increase the 11.7
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories ... -baseball/

The craziest aspect that is not discussed enough is the fact that the the 11.7 scholarship rule is strangling programs as more and more high school players are willing to take lesser pro offers because there are not enough college scholarships available. This hurts the baseball being played at the college level and thus hurts the NCAA baseball as a whole all while enriching pro teams. Essentially the NCAA is forcing many 18 year olds to take the much bigger gamble that they can make it to the majors as opposed to getting an education that can last a lifetime. Yet the NCAA admin, school presidents and ADs all claim it is all about supporting “student athletes”. They are scum. I try to figure out what is going on and one of the only theories I can come up with is that pro teams are pushing the scholarship limitations behind closed doors. It just doesn’t make sense to limit baseball while almost every other sport has all the scholarships that they would ever need. The other and more likely reality is that large state schools are benefiting from the limitations knowing full well that, comparatively, more baseball players would be drawn to academics so more scholarships would allow elite private academic schools more to sell the common ballplayer.

My guess is that diversity plays a role. If more minorities were playing the game there would be a better opportunity to increase them. However I’ve also read because of the lack of baseball scholarships minorities are less interested in the sport.

Title IX legislation and the influence of sports media were primary factors.

http://thesportjournal.org/article/afri ... -baseball/

Ken Williams of the Chicago White Sox, Major League Baseball’s (MLB) only African-American general manager, blamed the small number of collegiate scholarships designated for baseball on the small number of African-American players (Nightengale, 2006). Logan White, the Los Angeles Dodger’s amateur scouting director, noted that in his trips to colleges across the United States, he rarely encounters an African-American baseball player. Not only is the absence of the African-American player obvious at the collegiate level, the population has gone from 27% of Major League Baseball (MLB) players in 1975 to 8% today (Nightengale, 2006).

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories ... -baseball/


These are how many scholarships (full and partial) that an FBS college can offer outside of FB.

Sport Men's Women's
Baseball/softball 11.7 12
Basketball 13 15
Bowling 0 5
Equestrian 0 15
Fencing 4.5 5
Field hockey 0 12
Golf 4.5 6
Gymnastics 6.3 12
Ice hockey 18 18
Lacrosse 12.6 12
Rifle 3.6 0
Rowing 0 20
Rugby 0 12
Sand volleyball 0 3
Skiing 6.3 7
Soccer 9.9 14
Swimming/diving 9.9 14
Tennis 4.5 8
Track and field/
cross-country 12.6 18
Volleyball 4.5 12
Water polo 4.5 8
Wrestling 9.9 0

10,046 players were D1 baseball players but there were only a total of 3,486 Division 1 scholarships available for those guys.