Why can’t a men’s bball coach succeed at Tulane ?

[Bicoastalwave]

The amount of malice, vitriol and maybe more embarrassing, befuddlement, at Ron Hunter for coming here raises this question. Bomoni “wannabe Steven a smith” Jones also very publicly insinuated this was the end of Hunters career, he’d come here and be fired in a few years. A few Tulane fans fired back but he brought up a few recurring facts. Tulane has only been to the ncaa tourney 3 times and all under the same coach (Perry). Now I think this is distorted because the NIT was the premiere tourney for many many years and the ncaa tourney is a relatively modern invention.

I would love some of the historians and active fans to contribute. In my mind I break down our program in the following manner :

Pro’s:

1) Money- We have the financial resources. Since the signing of the AAC TV deal we make $7m a year. Additionally we have a $1.3 Billion endowment. We also have made a relatively massive investment in facilities (New stadiums, weight rooms, bball practice facility)

2) Administration- we have shown with some costly firings and opening the checkbook we are committed to winning under the new administration of Fitz and Dannen. Things HAVE changed. This also plays into the massive donations from board members, benefactors and sports donations. There is resolve. resolve,

3) Geography- we’re in a medium size city. It’s not a basketball hub but at the same time we don’t have several major programs to compete with and we do have a large potential base of fans. Medium recruiting in Louisiana but the south has players. . . We only need a 8 man rotation.

4) Campus & School- our campus Is beautiful and located in the best city in America. I live in La & NYC and I can say that New Orleans in my favorite city. The quality of life and happiness in New Orleans is superior to any other college campus and city. For conversational purposes we can say it’s a push with USC/UCLA/UMiami/UCSD. It’s a top 40 school that has a massive sticker Value (what is it now ? $200k). The connections & alumni at the school are also amazing. Owners of the bucs and Man U as an example.

5) Conference
3-5 ncaa bid conference yearly with major brands- temple/UConn/Memphis/houston/cinci. ESPN and network exposure. We send players to the NBA.

Cons:

1) History/ Perception
We have only been to the ncaa tourney 3 times under 1 coach. As I said this is sckewed, the NIT was the premiere tourney forever (until around 1985 by my research) before the ncaa tourney rose to prominence. Now I will say it is truly amazing we have only been 3 times. I assume that responses to this post from older, wiser fans can do an overlay of previous challenges and why they have been alleviated recently. More recently (post death penalty), Katrina certainly didn’t he’ll and we had the single greatest problem - AN AWFUL ADMINISTRATION. Cowen & Dickson did their best (and it was an impressive best) to run us into the ground. Conference USA and no revenue certainly contributed. We don’t have a history of tradition or success (that’s about to change).

2) Recruiting
We have a higher standard then most universities for admission or recruits, that is irrefutable. Yes you could argue that recruiting is a “pro” because we have athlete friendly majors and exceptions can be made. . . But it’s still a negative. We have yet to see since Honeycutt & Hot Rod we can recruit. We HAD Elijah wood (too 100), but recruiting has been awful forever. I blame this on coaches and assistants. Let’s spend the money for big time recruiters and sell the story of all of those pro’s above. I don’t believe we need 4 & 5 star recruits to be over .500 in conference with a good coach (hunter). As far as academics- Duke, UNC, UCLA, Stanford, Michigan, Wisconsin, UT all have amazing programs and excellent academics. We can too. (To a lesser extent Northwestern, Syracuse, Yale/Harvard).


The Pros far outweighs the Cons. This seems like the easier sport to turn around to Postseason play then football ever was. Roll Wave and welcome Ron Hunter!


Disclaimer: this was composed on an iPhone and there will be misspellings. You are not brilliant for pointing them out, but feel free to edit and send me the corrections and I’ll post it.

[winwave]

We don't have higher standards for student-athletes. Tulane has been accepting them at NCAA minimums since CJ's first year.

As for not needing 4 stars I think one of the GSU fans posted here that he had a 4 star every year.

[ajcalhoun]

the NIT was the premiere tourney forever (until around 1985 by my research) before the ncaa tourney rose to prominence.

I'd love to know where you dug that up. The NIT started dying in the 50's, around the time games started getting televised. And we were never in it in its heyday. By the time we first got in, 1982 (a first-round victory over LSU), it was what it is now; a consolation prize for teams who had a decent season but not good enough to make the NCAAs.

[Bicoastalwave]

I am not disagreeing we just hear and see a great deal of conflicting reports. We do know, that CJ couldn’t keep kids in school (different then getting them into school) and that Willie Fritz said Juco kids are almost impossible for him to get in (Anderson this year had a 4.0 and most of our grad transfers are from elite schools like Brown and Miami, although we did have davenport from LSU).

I wanted to play it on the conservative side and add it as a con because we do see mixed messages on the reality of the situation. So if it Is a non issue and we can get the same players as LSU into Tulane it amplifies my core question: WHY CANT COACHES WIN IN MENS BBALL AT TULANE

[Bicoastalwave]

the NIT was the premiere tourney forever (until around 1985 by my research) before the ncaa tourney rose to prominence.

I'd love to know where you dug that up. The NIT started dying in the 50's, around the time games started getting televised. And we were never in it in its heyday. By the time we first got in, 1982 (a first-round victory over LSU), it was what it is now; a consolation prize for teams who had a decent season but not good enough to make the NCAAs.

I believe 1985 was when the ncaa tourney expanded to 64 teams and the nit had failed in their expansion attempts. I can check in the morning for exact articles. I recall some pointed to earlier dates as the turning point for ncaa dominance, but the expansion to 64 for the ncaa was game, set and match. Those earlier years were before my time, so I do defer to others who lived through this time.

I would love to have others expound upon or challenge my analysis (written late at night with great optimism and a pint in my hand,)

[golfnut69]

the NIT was the premiere tourney forever (until around 1985 by my research) before the ncaa tourney rose to prominence.

I'd love to know where you dug that up. The NIT started dying in the 50's, around the time games started getting televised. And we were never in it in its heyday. By the time we first got in, 1982 (a first-round victory over LSU), it was what it is now; a consolation prize for teams who had a decent season but not good enough to make the NCAAs.

I believe 1985 was when the ncaa tourney expanded to 64 teams and the nit had failed in their expansion attempts. I can check in the morning for exact articles. I recall some pointed to earlier dates as the turning point for ncaa dominance, but the expansion to 64 for the ncaa was game, set and match. Those earlier years were before my time, so I do defer to others who lived through this time.

I would love to have others expound upon or challenge my analysis (written late at night with great optimism and a pint in my hand,)

In the mid 70's the NCAA mandated that all members who receive a Tournament invite must participate...Al McGuire told the NCAA to F#@K themselves when he had one of the best teams and they were going to force him to play in FTW instead of Dayton, OH for the first round..He told them if he was going to have to travel to Texas, he was takin' his team to 'The Garden"..at that time all NIT games were played in NYC, and many teams opted to play in 'The Garden' rather than participate in the ncaa tourney there were no 'Host' ..The NCAA now owns the NIT tournament...pleae read the "preeminence section of the attached link it gives a summary of the Al McGuire situation which I think happened in 1970 or 1971
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_ ... Tournament

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/col ... 93634.html

[winwave]

There is no conflict. We accept athletes at NCAA minimums and have athlete friendly majors. The kids lost under CJ were more for character issues than grades. There is plenty of support staff to help the athletes now also and that should expand even further with the additional money we'll start getting in a year when the new contract kicks in. One of the major reasons we can't get better players is the high schoolish gym we play in.

[DfromCT]

We have a new coach, and an administration that was not afraid to make what was an obviously needed change. I don't want to talk about why we cannot be a good basketball program because I think we can. Bad coaching hires, and lack of accountability, coupled with an administration that didn't care about athletics has given us years of poor on-court performance.

Let's focus on the new day dawning. Be optimistic about Tulane basketball and give Ron Hunter a chance. This is not an overnight fix; Hunter needs time to change the culture and mentality of Tulane basketball.

ROLL WAVE!

[golfnut69]

There is no conflict. We accept athletes at NCAA minimums and have athlete friendly majors. The kids lost under CJ were more for character issues than grades. There is plenty of support staff to help the athletes now also and that should expand even further with the additional money we'll start getting in a year when the new contract kicks in. One of the major reasons we can't get better players is the high schoolish gym we play in.

.Chet Gladchuck had the plans in place knock out the north facing wall of devlin / fogelman and turn the court to run north-south...the seating would have been close to 8,000 if memory serves..my company worked with Tulane in the placing of the concession stands and the infrastrucute required for water, beer and refrigeration.... I trashed my copy of the plans when I transferred back to Houston.......

[tpstulane]

Plain and simple a good basketball coach can and will win at Tulane. Willie Fritz is proving this in FB. No need to give past failures excuses. Not one past coach including Perry Clark that left Tulane is currently a head coach on any level. Not even sure Shawn Finney is still in coaching. Perry assistant at South Carolina, Dickerson assistant at Ohio St, Conroy at Minnesota, and Dunleavy not going to coach for awhile. If Hunter can coach and bring in players like he did at GSU he should be able to win here.

[Profoundwizard]

Plain and simple a good basketball coach can and will win at Tulane. Willie Fritz is proving this in FB. No need to give past failures excuses. Not one past coach including Perry Clark that left Tulane is currently a head coach on any level. Not even sure Shawn Finney is still in coaching. Perry assistant at South Carolina, Dickerson assistant at Ohio St, Conroy at Minnesota, and Dunleavy not going to coach for awhile. If Hunter can coach and bring in players like he did at GSU he should be able to win here.

Dickerson is a head coach again at USC Upstate

[MicMan]

That we still play in Devlin tells outsiders all they need to know about the program.

[anEngineer]

We keep hearing the same complaints from the same people on this site about why we don't win (we all know who they are): the arena, the academics, the financial support, the history, ... To refute these, we don't have to look much farther than 80 miles up river. LSU suffers from none of these issues, yet they have stunk since Dale Brown left, until this year; and look what they had to do to get there. Every time they hired a coach, he had great credentials, was a great recruiter and was a real winner. It never happened.

Hiring a successful coach is hard and there are no guarantees. That's why you need a good AD. I think we have one and have to trust in his judgement. Even with that, I can't help thinkning back to when we had Perry Clark, Dale Brown and Tim Floyd all coaching at the same time in this area and the buzz was much less than it should have been. I have often wondered if basketball just doesn't sell in this part of the country. If we are indeed fighting upstream with college basketball, maybe that's the reason and there is not much that can be really done about it.

[tpstulane]

Plain and simple a good basketball coach can and will win at Tulane. Willie Fritz is proving this in FB. No need to give past failures excuses. Not one past coach including Perry Clark that left Tulane is currently a head coach on any level. Not even sure Shawn Finney is still in coaching. Perry assistant at South Carolina, Dickerson assistant at Ohio St, Conroy at Minnesota, and Dunleavy not going to coach for awhile. If Hunter can coach and bring in players like he did at GSU he should be able to win here.

Dickerson is a head coach again at USC Upstate

Going from memory I forgot that. Thanks.

[nawlinspete]

That we still play in Devlin tells outsiders all they need to know about the program.

As suggested years ago , with McCallister closed to vehicles build a new arena in the old street footprint . And then tear down Tulane Gym/Fogelman/Devlin . It was a total waste to put 10 MM into the dinosaur from our Rose Bowl earnings from fricken 1932 .

Speaking of money, why is Dannen getting a free pass on his failure to raise ANY ?

[nawlinspete]

That we still play in Devlin tells outsiders all they need to know about the program.

To which , unfortunately , we can now add a SEAT TAX....

[DrBox]

Yes we allow coaches to bring in who they want, but graduation is nonnegotiable and many coaches just don’t want to mess with the risks or make the effort to figure out which players with marginal high school grades will handle the academics (like Stockton - it’s all good grades). But basketball only has 13 scholarship athletes And if you figure 50% are risks that’s only six or seven players to carefully manage. An energetic coach should be willing to do that. Hunter will do it.

[winwave]

There is no conflict. We accept athletes at NCAA minimums and have athlete friendly majors. The kids lost under CJ were more for character issues than grades. There is plenty of support staff to help the athletes now also and that should expand even further with the additional money we'll start getting in a year when the new contract kicks in. One of the major reasons we can't get better players is the high schoolish gym we play in.

.Chet Gladchuck had the plans in place knock out the north facing wall of devlin / fogelman and turn the court to run north-south...the seating would have been close to 8,000 if memory serves..my company worked with Tulane in the placing of the concession stands and the infrastrucute required for water, beer and refrigeration.... I trashed my copy of the plans when I transferred back to Houston.......

golf we've discussed that before. That's no longer possible to get it to 8.000. When we brought basketball back the Fire Marshall came in and made Tulane make changes which reduced the the seating from 5,000 to 3,600. Then Tulane spent $10 million to reduce it to 3,200 seats. Then you have the changes to the LBC that limit what could be done in that direction. If we are going to get a modern Arena on campus it has to be done on the Rosen site. In fact SC/RD had the plans done to build the new Arena there along with the practice facility and a parking garage underneath. When they got the $50 million dollar price tag they had sticker shock and said we can build a football stadium for that and then did so. Idiots.

[wavedomer]

One of the greatest high school basketball programs in the history of America, St. Anthony's in Jersey City, had: no money and no gym. What they had was the best high school coach ever. Get the right coach and we win at Tulane. Yeah, high school and college are different, but with television these days, our gym size is only a slight disadvantage, but a huge advantage if we can actually fill it with fans. Tulane Basketball won 4 games this year and was still on TV. They still sent kids to the Association. They still give kids a tremendous education. Get the coach and we win. Georgia State is a commuter school and he won. It's all about coaching.

[golfnut69]

I remember the days when Tulane tried to buy Loyola Fieldhouse when they killed basketball

[Bicoastalwave]

I remember the days when Tulane tried to buy Loyola Fieldhouse when they killed basketball

That’s interesting, I’ve never heard about that before ! Wish they had bought any/all of Loyola’s land.

[golfnut69]

I remember the days when Tulane tried to buy Loyola Fieldhouse when they killed basketball

That’s interesting, I’ve never heard about that before ! Wish they had bought any/all of Loyola’s land.

If I remember the agreement, Tulane would buy the Building and immediate surronding land, Loyola would be given use of the fieldhouse for intramural / student activities until another site was estabilished for use....all Tulane student activies would continue on the Tulane campus.....The Pope killed the deal....

[sader24]

The biggest issue has been bad hires. The gym is a joke. Also if you want to recruit how Perry did back In the day you are going to have to pay kids. Do we have the big money athletic donors for basketball that want to pay up?

[nawlinspete]

I remember the days when Tulane tried to buy Loyola Fieldhouse when they killed basketball

That’s interesting, I’ve never heard about that before ! Wish they had bought any/all of Loyola’s land.

If I remember the agreement, Tulane would buy the Building and immediate surronding land, Loyola would be given use of the fieldhouse for intramural / student activities until another site was estabilished for use....all Tulane student activies would continue on the Tulane campus.....The Pope killed the deal....

The Pope ? Hard to believe that degree of micromanaging .

[galvezwave]

Tulane basketball is whatever it wants to be. The main keys are 1. A president with the balls and the stomach to compete on the hardwood

2. A coach who is an outstanding, charismatic recruiter (Clark).

3. Top flight floor/game coaching (Ron everhardt).

For a brief moment we had all 3.

I get the arena thing , but Perry’s recruits chose to play there and I never heard a complaint from them . In fact it was just the opposite.