Wave beats the Wave ,loses to Wake Forest in OT 23-17

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tpstulane
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Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:48 am

winwave wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:02 am
MicMan wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:25 am
winwave wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:25 pm
Just wanted to clear this up over some public comments by Mack. His memory is a little fuzzy. He didn't work out of a trailer. He worked out of the Ben Weiner building which was a two story metal building. Also, we had a 100 yard field or as golf would point out 12o yards plus some lagniappe beyond that and it was surrounded by the track. it's always been there until they built the stadium there. So players weren't running from natural turf onto artificial turf.
Not Ben Weiner, it was the Monk Simons building when I was there. Played a lot of intramural hoops in Favrot, had my photo on the wall for winning the intramural field goal contest senior year -- 49 yards!
Thanks. I couldn't remember the name and was discussing it with tps and I was thinking Mintz or Weiner. He thought Weiner. Both wrong. :lol:
Lol. I’ve been hanging out with Mack Brown too much. Brain fart. It was called Monk Simons, Ben Weiner donated the money for it. Later they renamed the street after Ben.


Stadiums get old, winning never does.
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winwave
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Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:26 pm

Yulman is where Tulane athletics went to be buried! Tulane is small time for all time. It's time to put Tulane athletics in it's small space in life.
DfromCT
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Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:51 pm

Ok, after having a couple of days to digest what took place, and having watched the game (with the remote and ability to fast forward) again, here's my takeaways:

1. Our offensive line played well in the first half, and wore down to the point where it was downright bad in the 4th quarter.
2. Our passing game is average at best, possibly below average at the skill positions, and needs to have the running game established to be effective.
3. Banks is far from NFL ready, or even considerable for an NFL draft pick.
4. Our play calling left a lot to be desired. We made some big plays turning the corner yet didn't attack the corner often enough.
5. Wake's O-line and D-line controlled the game by the second half. That's why they won.
6. Once their QB found his rythm, in my mind there was no doubt Wake was the better team
7. We lost to a team we were 6 point underdogs in OT. The season is NOT over.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
winwave
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Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:51 pm

As to #'1 and 2 I have to strongly disagree. Our O-line couldn't do anything all night. We started with great field position in the first half several times and went nowhere. They can't pass block and they can't open holes. Hilliard could slip through the slightest crevice . We don't have that anymore.

I agree the season is not over. The conference is not as good this year. We should take advantage of this week's game and then win again before OSU.
Yulman is where Tulane athletics went to be buried! Tulane is small time for all time. It's time to put Tulane athletics in it's small space in life.
DfromCT
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Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:46 am

winwave wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:51 pm
As to #'1 and 2 I have to strongly disagree. Our O-line couldn't do anything all night. We started with great field position in the first half several times and went nowhere. They can't pass block and they can't open holes. Hilliard could slip through the slightest crevice . We don't have that anymore.

I agree the season is not over. The conference is not as good this year. We should take advantage of this week's game and then win again before OSU.
You have to strongly disagree with every post I make. Watch the game.

If you think our passing game is average or above average, I have to ask: Do you watch any other college football? I don't want to name names, but we have 1 legit good D1 WR, 1 that borders average, and a QB that is inaccurate and doesn't make decisions as well as his peers. Since you love to harp about how effective our passing game was the second half of last year, I agree with that but point out we averaged 231 ypg rushing, so the opposition was FORCED to stop the run, which opened up the passing game. That's Fritz's offense.

And it really needs a QB that can change from a running play to a passing play based upon what the D is showing DURING the play. That's what I meant by the true Frosh QB schooling Banks. He made decisions to either leave the ball in the RB's hands, take it himself, or pull it out and hit the quick strike. Something our offense is designed to do, but rarely does effectively. It's called an RPO and guess what the R and P stand for? It calls for a QB to make reads on the fly, and based upon our last two games, (with one of the "reads" leading to a controversial no TD and loss of bowl eligibility) our QB is not very good at making those decisions.

WATCH THE GAME AGAIN. In the first half the O line held it's own. Poor throws and dropped passes, not establishing our running game lead to no points in the first half. So I stand by my points 1 and 2, and the video backs them.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
winwave
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Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:14 am

Willie agrees with me. Says we can't run block and we can't pass block. I was there and can see the whole field not the limited TV view. We don't have the line to just go out and establish the run. We do have a QB that can scramble and create plays which is what happened in the second half. So traditionally you'd like to use the run to establish the pass but we need to do it another way b/c of the continual poor line play. By Willie's account and Dannen's Banks got better at the RPO decision making late last season. All QB's that run that offense sometimes make the wrong reads. Wilie threw Banks under the bus here. He gave too much respect to Wake by not going for it on some of those early possessions. He's got no one to blame but himself.

https://www.nola.com/tulane/index.ssf/2 ... iver_index
Yulman is where Tulane athletics went to be buried! Tulane is small time for all time. It's time to put Tulane athletics in it's small space in life.
DfromCT
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Sun Sep 02, 2018 4:39 pm

1. First drive I don't have on DVR. Second drive I start at the point of the Wake safety getting ejected. Three and out from there: 1st play Banks has time and throws a pass to Clewis that should have been caught, but it was thrown behind him and would have gained no more than 5 yards. Running play goes nowhere then a poor pass by Banks who was NOT under pressure leads to a punt.
BTW: Following possession Hartman throws a beebee on 3rd and 5 in the shadow of his goal line. Throws another strike on 1st down to get Wake out near the 40.
2. Next Tulane possession: 3 running plays including a Huderson 3rd down carry give the Wave a 1st down. Wake puts 7 in the box and Tulane completes a 16 yard pass on first down. Then we mix two pass plays (one incomplete as Banks threw too high for Robertson to come down with it, the other short of the sticks by 4 yards on 3rd down) with a run and punt from inside the 40 yard line. On none of the plays of this series was Wake's D line a factor. Our O-line was playing well against one of the strengths of Wake's D.
BTW: Next Wake Forest drive true Frosh Hartman completes as beautiful a sideline pass from the shadow of his goal line close to mid field, then throws two more impressive passes where only his receiver could make the catch, showing a much stronger arm than Banks' comparably soft tosses, and has Wake into Tulane territory. Although the drive ultimately stalls and Wake doesn't score, Hartman has found his stride, and from here on out, despite the two INT's, he totally outplays Banks.

Do I need to go on play by play? You're wrong contesting my first two points. You will NEVER admit it.
1. Our offensive line played well in the first half, and wore down to the point where it was downright bad in the 4th quarter.
2. Our passing game is average at best, possibly below average at the skill positions, and needs to have the running game established to be effective.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
winwave
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Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:50 pm

Willie and I watched the same game. We both felt we couldn't run block or pass protect.
Yulman is where Tulane athletics went to be buried! Tulane is small time for all time. It's time to put Tulane athletics in it's small space in life.
DfromCT
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Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:57 pm

winwave wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 5:50 pm
Willie and I watched the same game. We both felt we couldn't run block or pass protect.
Yeah, right.

Then I want what you're drinking or smoking. WATCH THE FIRST HALF. You're wrong, In the second half we didn't block. But you're changing the argument in your typical style because you are wrong.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
winwave
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Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:25 pm

I was there and had the full field view not the limited TV view. The O-Line did not play well. Willie's quote says it all. It's the same ole same ole with the line issues. Have at it. I'm going to enjoy the Labor Day weekend.
Yulman is where Tulane athletics went to be buried! Tulane is small time for all time. It's time to put Tulane athletics in it's small space in life.
DfromCT
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Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:41 pm

winwave wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 6:25 pm
I was there and had the full field view not the limited TV view. The O-Line did not play well. Willie's quote says it all. It's the same ole same ole with the line issues. Have at it. I'm going to enjoy the Labor Day weekend.
So, pig headed as always, you won't let the video speak for itself. You argued two points that I made, and you're wrong on both. But "I was there, and I saw more than TV." You won't debate what the replay sees: and proves: That the O-line held it's own in the first half before getting worn out, and that our passing game is nowhere close to D1 average. But you know all, so have a great weekend.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
Dave breslin
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Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:02 pm

After you two quit bitch slapping each other, the wave lost because Wake is more physical than we are. We are p6 with a vanilla offense. A plain offense works if you are more physical than the other team.
ccap05
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Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:04 pm

On the bright side, Beau Rivage was giving 7 points and the Wave covered.
sader24
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Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:20 pm

I was at the game and thought 1) The offensive line was putrid all game. 2) Banks was inaccurate on many throws but also was running for his life all night and was the only reason we were in the game. 3) Playcalling and scheme were absolutely atrocious. Take ur pick, but the only reason we were in OT is bc the defense held their own as long as they could and Banks made two plays under complete duress. The playcalling blew, the offensive line blew, the coaching decision making situationally blew. The game was there to be won, we didn’t win it. I blame the offensive coaching and head coaching. We were not physically overwhelmed to the point we couldn’t compete. Hopefully things get better.
DfromCT
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Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:03 pm

I do not debate that in the second half, our O line was like a matador. Ole! But in the first half it held it's own. I don't care if you had great seats or were in the GD Blimp, if you watch the replay or tape it doesn't change the fact that IN THE FIRST HALF Banks was rarely pressured, and stood for a few seconds before being forced to scramble. Sometimes the receivers were covered and he had to scramble. Part of that was relying on our passing game before we established the run. In the second half he ran for his life almost from the time he got the snap. And the passing game is far from mediocre D1. Those are the two points winwave contended. Then he changes the argument, because the video proves him wrong.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
winwave
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Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:58 pm

sader24 wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:20 pm
I was at the game and thought 1) The offensive line was putrid all game. 2) Banks was inaccurate on many throws but also was running for his life all night and was the only reason we were in the game. 3) Playcalling and scheme were absolutely atrocious. Take ur pick, but the only reason we were in OT is bc the defense held their own as long as they could and Banks made two plays under complete duress. The playcalling blew, the offensive line blew, the coaching decision making situationally blew. The game was there to be won, we didn’t win it. I blame the offensive coaching and head coaching. We were not physically overwhelmed to the point we couldn’t compete. Hopefully things get better.
Yep. Glad someone sane was there too.
Last edited by winwave on Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yulman is where Tulane athletics went to be buried! Tulane is small time for all time. It's time to put Tulane athletics in it's small space in life.
winwave
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Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:02 am

DfromCT wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:03 pm
I do not debate that in the second half, our O line was like a matador. Ole! But in the first half it held it's own. I don't care if you had great seats or were in the GD Blimp, if you watch the replay or tape it doesn't change the fact that IN THE FIRST HALF Banks was rarely pressured, and stood for a few seconds before being forced to scramble. Sometimes the receivers were covered and he had to scramble. Part of that was relying on our passing game before we established the run. In the second half he ran for his life almost from the time he got the snap. And the passing game is far from mediocre D1. Those are the two points winwave contended. Then he changes the argument, because the video proves him wrong.
I never changed the argument. I said the line sucked and it did. Willie agrees. This is like last season when after a loss I said they were the worst . You lost your shit and went on that they were just fine. Then as the season went on you had to admit they were pretty bad. WELL NEWS FLASH THEY'RE STILL BAD AND A MAJOR PROBLEM FOR THIS PROGRAM.
Yulman is where Tulane athletics went to be buried! Tulane is small time for all time. It's time to put Tulane athletics in it's small space in life.
HoustonWave
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Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:30 am

I was to mesmerized by the awful play from Banks and most our receivers to even notice what the OL was doing. The usual sack fest we see from our OL didn’t seem to be as bad. What was clear is that Banks can’t make good RPO decisions, and usually throws inaccurate passes (usually behind or over the receiver). Add the fact that our offensive brain trust didn’t play our best runner very much, and had an awful gameplan, and it’s just too hard to determine whether our OL has it or not. I know we were all expecting a better OL this year—did Noah live up to his pre-season hype?
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
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Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:28 am

HoustonWave wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:30 am
I was to mesmerized by the awful play from Banks and most our receivers to even notice what the OL was doing. The usual sack fest we see from our OL didn’t seem to be as bad. What was clear is that Banks can’t make good RPO decisions, and usually throws inaccurate passes (usually behind or over the receiver). Add the fact that our offensive brain trust didn’t play our best runner very much, and had an awful gameplan, and it’s just too hard to determine whether our OL has it or not. I know we were all expecting a better OL this year—did Noah live up to his pre-season hype?
I was disappointed in the game as well. I haven't commented because I'm just blah on the whole night. There was't too many things that I'm going to remember except the fantastic crawfish mac and cheese that I stole from my daughter until she noticed it and hit me with her crutches......

The OL was a horror, Banks missed the side of the barn a few times...but all was there for the taking if he just cuts up the field on that last possession.....sigh....

Oh Well, we lost to a better team who is mid level ACC. We are definitely at least midlevel AAC. 6-6, 7-5 still well within reach and expected as far as I'm concerned. We do have a good coaching staff who won't make the same mistakes twice. We will get better as the year goes on.
winwave
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Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:34 am

HoustonWave wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:30 am
I was to mesmerized by the awful play from Banks and most our receivers to even notice what the OL was doing. The usual sack fest we see from our OL didn’t seem to be as bad. What was clear is that Banks can’t make good RPO decisions, and usually throws inaccurate passes (usually behind or over the receiver). Add the fact that our offensive brain trust didn’t play our best runner very much, and had an awful gameplan, and it’s just too hard to determine whether our OL has it or not. I know we were all expecting a better OL this year—did Noah live up to his pre-season hype?
Noah didn't look good at all. He capped off his bad night with the face mask penalty that killed us in OT.
Yulman is where Tulane athletics went to be buried! Tulane is small time for all time. It's time to put Tulane athletics in it's small space in life.
DfromCT
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Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:23 pm

winwave wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:02 am
DfromCT wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 10:03 pm
I do not debate that in the second half, our O line was like a matador. Ole! But in the first half it held it's own. I don't care if you had great seats or were in the GD Blimp, if you watch the replay or tape it doesn't change the fact that IN THE FIRST HALF Banks was rarely pressured, and stood for a few seconds before being forced to scramble. Sometimes the receivers were covered and he had to scramble. Part of that was relying on our passing game before we established the run. In the second half he ran for his life almost from the time he got the snap. And the passing game is far from mediocre D1. Those are the two points winwave contended. Then he changes the argument, because the video proves him wrong.
I never changed the argument. I said the line sucked and it did. Willie agrees. This is like last season when after a loss I said they were the worst . You lost your sh*t and went on that they were just fine. Then as the season went on you had to admit they were pretty bad. WELL NEWS FLASH THEY'RE STILL BAD AND A MAJOR PROBLEM FOR THIS PROGRAM.
I never said the line was good. At times last year they did some good things. You don't average 231 yards rushing per game without doing SOME good things. NEWSFLASH: We all need winwave to analyse the games to tell us our O line stinks!

IN THE FIRST HALF of the Wake game they gave Banks time, he either missed the receiver or the receiver dropped the ball. Your refusing to watch the DVR of the game, or find it online to back up your argument reeks of arrogance that typifies your posts and is the reason we're constantly arguing. The line absolutely sucked in the second half. I never debated it. But when your QB is standing with the ball in his hands not being pressured for 4 or 5 seconds, the line is doing ok, which it did FOR MOST OF THE FIRST HALF. You also argued that we have at least a mediocre passing game and at least mediocre skill players in the passing game. We clearly do not.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
winwave
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Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:56 pm

I was at the game with a full view of the field. The line had issues all night long. I'm far from the only one who saw it. Willie saw it . Sader saw it. Wavetime saw it and many more. There are times where pressure is bearing down even though it doesn't get there. Throw in the PTSD a QB has after working behind this incompetent line for a year and said pressure has a great impact on the play. Then throw in their poor run blocking. Other than the Encalde play there wasn't much there. As for the passing game comment of yours I searched this thread and I'm not sure what you are referring to.
Yulman is where Tulane athletics went to be buried! Tulane is small time for all time. It's time to put Tulane athletics in it's small space in life.
DfromCT
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Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:21 pm

DfromCT wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:51 pm
Ok, after having a couple of days to digest what took place, and having watched the game (with the remote and ability to fast forward) again, here's my takeaways:

1. Our offensive line played well in the first half, and wore down to the point where it was downright bad in the 4th quarter.
2. Our passing game is average at best, possibly below average at the skill positions, and needs to have the running game established to be effective.


Here's a quote from you moments after the above (and more) was posted:
As to #'1 and 2 I have to strongly disagree. Our O-line couldn't do anything all night. We started with great field position in the first half several times and went nowhere. They can't pass block and they can't open holes.
You keep insisting that "I was there and had a good view of the entire field, not just what TV shows" is the arrogance I refer to. You don't need a wide angle to see if the qb is pressured or not. When he's standing in the pocket for 4 or 5 seconds, the line is doing at least an ok job. That was the case in the first half but not in the second half. And I'll bet I've been to AT LEAST as many football games in my years as you have. You're not the only one to watch a game from the best seats, which are well above field level (typically about 40-60 feet above) near the middle of the field. Duh.

We punted 4 or 5 times from inside the 40, most of those were in the first half, Very few of those were three and outs. We moved the ball but couldn't convert. There's obviously no confidence in the kicking game. The problems in the first half were that we didn't establish the run, had some terrible passes and I think the number was 5 dropped passes. Encalade had one go through his hands at the goal line. The O-line was the least of the problem areas in the first half, it was downright bad in the second half, when Wake adjusted to our (lousy) game plan.

Again, we need to run the football to be successful. That doesn't mean run 75% of the time. As we saw in the last half of last year, we can be balanced IF WE ESTABLISH THE RUN and make the opponent commit to stopping the run. And yes, our O-line is still dreadful, despite an acceptable first half.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
sader24
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Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:21 pm

We couldn’t run the ball because our Offensive Line in the first half couldn’t block anyone. As for Banks on the read option, am I the only one who watches this offense and thinks the coordinator precalls what read he is going to make. He is either the worst read option qb ever and is making the wrong reads or he is the worst read qb ever and the coaches know it so they don’t give him any reads. It’s a preset call under the disguise of read option to try to keep the defense honest. He’s not even considering the second option most of the time If not all the time. It’s why I think the Wake defense was leaving options open bc they were selling out on the play. I think the coaches are calling the read option as a play with a set option and no read on the qb involved. That’s what it looked like to me all night.
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Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:34 pm

sader24 wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:21 pm
We couldn’t run the ball because our Offensive Line in the first half couldn’t block anyone. As for Banks on the read option, am I the only one who watches this offense and thinks the coordinator precalls what read he is going to make. He is either the worst read option qb ever and is making the wrong reads or he is the worst read qb ever and the coaches know it so they don’t give him any reads. It’s a preset call under the disguise of read option to try to keep the defense honest. He’s not even considering the second option most of the time If not all the time. It’s why I think the Wake defense was leaving options open bc they were selling out on the play. I think the coaches are calling the read option as a play with a set option and no read on the qb involved. That’s what it looked like to me all night.
I’ve said that before and been called crazy but I believe that this does happen. Not every time but sometimes. Gus Malzahn has been known to do that in the past as well.
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