Temple ends Tulane's season 82-77 in the AAC Tourney

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winwave
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Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:03 pm

Last edited by winwave on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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DfromCT
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:04 am

I hope we knock them out! We beat them at their place, and were very competitive, despite losing Frasier in the first few minutes, at home.

ROLL WAVE!
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

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Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:50 am

Line Temple 6.5 pts. > Wave (Rotation nos. 673-674 for Vegas Sheet).

O/U 143

http://www.vegasinsider.com/college-bas ... las-vegas/
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:18 pm

Hopefully Dunleavy can pull an Ed Conroy-like tournament run starting tonight.
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GreenLantern
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:13 pm

Temple cannot miss from 3.
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:22 pm

Blake Paul having his best game of the year
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:54 pm

huge 3 by Cam. 74-77 temple with 44sec left.
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GreenPuddleSplash
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:59 pm

What a disappointing last possession for the green wave. Ugly shot selection that led to an airball while coach Dunleavy is screaming to foul someone and players checked out.
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tpstulane
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:07 pm

Wave takes two timeouts back home on the flight. Daniels got trapped someone on the bench should have called a TO.
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:37 pm

For once, we wish we could pull one game out of our azz. It just doesn’t happen for us.
winwave
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:58 pm

Glad Reynolds could come out of his slump in his last game. Just wasn't enough. How could Frazier not foul immediately?
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:36 pm

My 3 observations:

1. We played better and more consistently early in the season than late in the season. Though it need not be pointed out that our Conference schedule was much tougher than the non-conference schedule. I just wish we were playing our best at the end of the season, we were not.

2. Ray Ona-Embo might lead the nation in having HIS shot blocked

3. Melvin Frazier's Micky Mouse ears hairdoo didn't help him last weekend or tonight. And, although I cannot fault him if the money is there for him to leave, I don't think he's close to an NBA player at this point in his career. I may be wrong, and I'm not a basketball guru, but I've seen way more than 44 players in the NCAA that are draft eligible that are more impressive. I wish him the best, but don't think he's close to ready.
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:17 pm

I would just like to say that as discouraging as Tulane athletics is, for the most part the athletes give great effort and tonight was another example. They have heart, but lack talent. This losing in all the major sports programs is the result of poor recruiting brought on by a number of issues, most of which are institutionally driven, I.e., academics, facilities, low fan base, lack of funding. I have been watching this for decades and it never changes. I follow the teams as a diversion from every day life, but feel almost nothing whether they win or lose. The overwhelming thoughts are how bad I feel for the coaches and players who go into most games with the deck stacked against them despite the hard work and dedication they put into their careers.
DfromCT
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Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:27 pm

Jaxwave wrote:I would just like to say that as discouraging as Tulane athletics is, for the most part the athletes give great effort and tonight was another example. They have heart, but lack talent. This losing in all the major sports programs is the result of poor recruiting brought on by a number of issues, most of which are institutionally driven, I.e., academics, facilities, low fan base, lack of funding. I have been watching this for decades and it never changes. I follow the teams as a diversion from every day life, but feel almost nothing whether they win or lose. The overwhelming thoughts are how bad I feel for the coaches and players who go into most games with the deck stacked against them despite the hard work and dedication they put into their careers.
I'm sorry, but this low-bar attitude just doesn't cut it in basketball. There's too many programs that turn it around much faster, and, when we had a 9 point lead it was all about how Dunleavy had coached up these kids, and how evenly matched Tulane and Temple are. Then we fall behind by a dozen, and it's about how we lack depth. Sorry, but this was a game that your argument doesn't apply to. Cinci, or even WSU, I would agree, we were over matched. But this Temple team was deeper, but not more talented than the team we put on the court tonight.

Oh yeah, in my observations I posted earlier in the thread, I forgot to mention: Sehic gets away with a LOT of moving picks!
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
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tpstulane
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:42 am

The discouraging thing is how the team regressed in the last half of the season. This was an potential NIT team at mid season. Players regresssed as individuals as well. It almost looked as if we ran a different style of offense. We had the talent to compete with everyone but Cincy on our schedule. Next year we won’t have our top two players coming back. So it may be difficult to improve to the point of getting to postseason play. We’ll miss Cam’s 3’s on offense and Frazier’s solid play on defense.
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:06 am

There was a definite pattern that developed through the year. The team played hard and never gave up. They would fall behind then fight to get back and be in a position to win. The other team would make the big shot and Tulane would respond with a miss. It happened time and time again. We just didn't have that go-to guy who would always come through late. Reynolds or Frazier could have been that guy, but they weren't. Not having a point guard capable of beating his man to the basket probably creates a lot of the trouble from the start.

When the pattern is always the same, it should be easier to address. I still think it's about quicker ball handlers and better shooters, and personnel problems take a lot of time to fix in college sports. There is no free agency, trades or picking up guys off the street.
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:34 am

The reasons behind the poor recruiting have been in place for decades. Don't hold your collective breaths looking for magical recruiting classes all of a sudden. When Dunleavy retires, word will get back to us through the media that he felt like his hands were tied recruiting to Tulane, the same message sent by most of the departing coaches for years.
DfromCT
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:18 am

anEngineer wrote: When the pattern is always the same, it should be easier to address. I still think it's about quicker ball handlers and better shooters, and personnel problems take a lot of time to fix in college sports. There is no free agency, trades or picking up guys off the street.
I agree it's not an easy fix or a quick fix in football. But in basketball I cannot agree. First off, where did we get Caleb Daniels? I believe it was "off the street" as he was playing pick up in our gym without a scholarship offer last summer. Also, just a few key recruits IN ONE SEASON can turn around a program quickly. We have yet to recruit the "one and done" recruits that would make us a legitimate contender for the AAC title. Not that that's the way to build for the long term, but it refutes your assertion. And yes, the "one and done" recruits generally go to a P5 team, but we're in a conference that should (and does elsewhere) attract them.

Basketball can be turned around in two years with the right coach and outstanding recruiting. I'm still behind Dunleavy, but he's not a Calipari/Pitino/Huggins type coach that will get those players in house. He'll get the borderline players and coach them up. It's going to take longer than fast track program others have used. But we'll get there if Dunleavy stays for the long term.

I'm with TPS on this point: The team peaked around the mid point of the season, and didn't play nearly as well down the stretch as our competition did. The trip to Europe last summer (which many on this board panned me for saying it would help bond the team) was a big influence on our early season success. But we never stepped up from there, while our opponents were progressing throughout the season.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:43 am

Look at the freshman Cincinnati had on the court and compare them to our freshman. No comparison. I think as the season went along teams figured out that to beat us all they had to do was play a zone. We beat a good SMU and Houston team and played Wichita St as well as anyone. We just don’t know how to win or what it takes. I think for Dunleavy to elevate the program he is going to have to bring in 4 star players. Frazier was a 4 star kid with some of the rating services. He can only develop the talent that is there. He can’t develop something that isn’t. We need to get stronger physically also. The team seemed to wear down late in the season when the better teams got stronger. We beat Temple on the road in our first meeting then lose twice to them since then. Frazier peeked at mid season as well. I think as he went so did the team. After his injury he was never quite the same. He seemed less aggressive going to the basket. It will hurt his draft stock. But not enough for him to come back to Tulane. Reynolds will be missed more I believe. He was like Jay Hook. Once Hook left we didn’t really have a 3pt guy for a season or two.
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:23 am

I have watched a lot of basketball the last couple weeks and in some of the lower conferences, their bigs would be welcome here. We have no post presence at all and it stretches our defensive players bad. It was the root of so many foul outs. I mean, Paul would be on the bench after 2 possessions because he fouls almost immediately and cant rebound well either. Sehic is a little shifty on offense under the basket, but he cannot rebound and might was well stand out of bounds on defense. The freshmen bigs have a long way to go and really had no business on the court this year. Just pointing out the obvious here. Not questioning their efforts because that was always present.

This killed us. We have Reynolds guarding a post player at times getting fouls and fouling out because all our bigs are on the bench in foul trouble. Also gave us no chance against the 2-3 zone we saw all year because we could not get the ball in and out of zone. Sehic was not so bad at this but I honestly thought he would help stretch us a bit. I thought he would shoot more 3's. I guess he could not sit outside because we had no one to put in the paint. Almost feel like this is where Frazier could have thrived a bit with his length and athleticism but maybe not in his skillset. We need big help there and it doesn't have to be the next Anthony Davis. He can be a role player that can rebound and play some defense and pick up trash points. Just can't get a player whose biggest strength is "tall".
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:20 am

Basketball SHOULD NOT take years to rebuild. I cannot argue that the deck is stacked against any coach that comes here, I honestly don't know how much a coach's hands are tied by the administration, etc., but it seems basketball would have the best opportunity to succeed. Maybe no one can turn this program around as some suggest. But I believe our program could return to the levels Perry Clark had us in the early 90s. But Mike Dunleavy is not the answer. I don't care if he's learning the college game on the job, if he doesn't have a full roster of his guys, or whatever the excuse. The fact is this. He appears to be a good teaching coach but he is a lousy college game coach, and is not drawing recruits based on what was perceived to be his advantage (his name, experience at the NBA level, successes that he's had coaching up individuals, etc.)

Since the death penalty he has the worst winning percentage in the first two years on the job. Clark, Finney, Dickerson and Conroy all had better first two years. And interesingly all of them had winning records in their 3rd year. In AAC play, Conroy's two years (his last two which we all thought were terrible) had as at 27-38 (9-27) with 2 conference tourney wins. Dunleavy by comparison went 20-42 (8-26) with 0 tourney wins. For anyone to say "we're improving" is completely turning a blind eye to the fact that Dunleavy led us to the worse season since Perry Clark's first year of rebuilding from NOTHING. Comparing improvement to last season is the worst case of low bar syndrome.

And yes, you can rebuild in 1 year. As D mentioned, the top programs in the country rebuild every year with their one and dones. That doesn't mean that we should be getting one and dones and competing for national championships like those. It means we could have one elite (for us and compared to our conference) class that could push us into competing in our own conference. It doesn't appear that's the type of class we have coming in. And with Reynolds and Frazier gone, next year looks like more of the same.

Disappointing, as I thought the Dunleavy hire at the time looked like it had a lot of promise. Now, I'm just hoping we don't ride this wave too much longer. I don't have the answer as to who out there I'd rather have. But I know what we're getting with Dunleavy...and it's not a winning program.
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:43 am

Show Me wrote:Look at the freshman Cincinnati had on the court and compare them to our freshman. No comparison. I think as the season went along teams figured out that to beat us all they had to do was play a zone. We beat a good SMU and Houston team and played Wichita St as well as anyone. We just don’t know how to win or what it takes. I think for Dunleavy to elevate the program he is going to have to bring in 4 star players. Frazier was a 4 star kid with some of the rating services. He can only develop the talent that is there. He can’t develop something that isn’t. We need to get stronger physically also. The team seemed to wear down late in the season when the better teams got stronger. We beat Temple on the road in our first meeting then lose twice to them since then. Frazier peeked at mid season as well. I think as he went so did the team. After his injury he was never quite the same. He seemed less aggressive going to the basket. It will hurt his draft stock. But not enough for him to come back to Tulane. Reynolds will be missed more I believe. He was like Jay Hook. Once Hook left we didn’t really have a 3pt guy for a season or two.
Where was Frazier a 4 star rated recruit? He was an under-recruited one-handed HS player. We only beat Temple to start the conference because we went 19-20 from the line, and shoved it down their throats when they tried to call timeouts and press us down a bucket or two at the end of the game.

You are VERY right about this team playing it's best well before the mid point of the season, and Frazier not looking anything like an NBA talent after his injury.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:47 am

DfromCT wrote:
Show Me wrote:Look at the freshman Cincinnati had on the court and compare them to our freshman. No comparison. I think as the season went along teams figured out that to beat us all they had to do was play a zone. We beat a good SMU and Houston team and played Wichita St as well as anyone. We just don’t know how to win or what it takes. I think for Dunleavy to elevate the program he is going to have to bring in 4 star players. Frazier was a 4 star kid with some of the rating services. He can only develop the talent that is there. He can’t develop something that isn’t. We need to get stronger physically also. The team seemed to wear down late in the season when the better teams got stronger. We beat Temple on the road in our first meeting then lose twice to them since then. Frazier peeked at mid season as well. I think as he went so did the team. After his injury he was never quite the same. He seemed less aggressive going to the basket. It will hurt his draft stock. But not enough for him to come back to Tulane. Reynolds will be missed more I believe. He was like Jay Hook. Once Hook left we didn’t really have a 3pt guy for a season or two.
Where was Frazier a 4 star rated recruit? He was an under-recruited one-handed HS player. We only beat Temple to start the conference because we went 19-20 from the line, and shoved it down their throats when they tried to call timeouts and press us down a bucket or two at the end of the game.

You are VERY right about this team playing it's best well before the mid point of the season, and Frazier not looking anything like an NBA talent after his injury.
Frazier 4 star recruit
3rd best player in Louisiana.
Higgins High basketball star Melvin Frazier listed Arkansas, Oklahoma, LSU and Oklahoma State as his final four schools.
http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/ ... 0f067.html
ESPN.com lists Frazier as a four-star recruit, ranking him as the third best prospect in Louisiana, with Rivals.com and 247Sports.com.
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:00 am

Show Me wrote:
DfromCT wrote:
Where was Frazier a 4 star rated recruit? He was an under-recruited one-handed HS player. We only beat Temple to start the conference because we went 19-20 from the line, and shoved it down their throats when they tried to call timeouts and press us down a bucket or two at the end of the game.

You are VERY right about this team playing it's best well before the mid point of the season, and Frazier not looking anything like an NBA talent after his injury.
Frazier 4 star recruit
3rd best player in Louisiana.
Higgins High basketball star Melvin Frazier listed Arkansas, Oklahoma, LSU and Oklahoma State as his final four schools.
http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orleans/ ... 0f067.html
ESPN.com lists Frazier as a four-star recruit, ranking him as the third best prospect in Louisiana, with Rivals.com and 247Sports.com.
Thanks for "Showing me"!

Hard to believe, based upon what we saw his first two years, and the repeated comments that he couldn't go to his left, and shot the ball on the way down, that he was rated that high. But again, thanks for showing me! I still don't think he's NBA ready, or even close, though.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
DfromCT
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Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:05 am

TXWave88 wrote:I have watched a lot of basketball the last couple weeks and in some of the lower conferences, their bigs would be welcome here. We need big help there and it doesn't have to be the next Anthony Davis. He can be a role player that can rebound and play some defense and pick up trash points. Just can't get a player whose biggest strength is "tall".

I agree 100%. We get stopped within inches of the rim regularly. Blake Paul has a hook shot that's more like a flip, and it's not very high percentage shot at all. Our FG percentage, if charted that way, was probably no better from inside the paint than outside the paint, it was really that bad. And watching a lot of other conferences/teams, I don't think any of them have as many close to the rim shots blocked as Tulane.

As far as rebounding goes, as we saw last night, even when the team is committed to rebounding, they're often in position and somehow manage to allow a smaller, quicker player sneak in and either grab the board, tip it in, or tip it out to a teammate. Really frustrating to watch.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
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