New AAC TV deal

UCF, Cincinnati, UConn, ECU, Houston, Memphis, South Florida, SMU, Temple, Tulsa
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tpstulane
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I remember when we were in talks to add FB to the powerful Metro League. Unfortunately Florida St wanted like 50% of the money the league was to get and so it never really had a shot to get off the ground. Would have easily been a power conference today.

In 1990 this Metro Super Conference was proposed but never happened:
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tpstulane wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:39 pm I remember when we were in talks to add FB to the powerful Metro League. Unfortunately Florida St wanted like 50% of the money the league was to get and so it never really had a shot to get off the ground. Would have easily been a power conference today.

In 1990 this Metro Super Conference was proposed but never happened:
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Now that would have been a "Power Conference" from the get-go. Was the Big East not yet in existence? A lot of those schools were charter members of the Big East which was very quickly THE basketball conference ahead of the ACC and Big 10 (B1G for those that don't remember!)

One problem: Tulane wouldn't have sniffed a division title for a very long time in that conference. But who knows, maybe the money it attracted and the recruiting benefits (a whole lot of those games would have been televised) would have changed our tides.

But it never came close to happening. We were closer when Cowen messed up everything by hiring Chris Scelfo instead of Rich Rod. That, along with Cowen's reign of error, set us back not just 20 years, but really into an almost impossible to get out of "afterthought" category for Athletic Relevance.
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DfromCT wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:20 pm

Now that would have been a "Power Conference" from the get-go. Was the Big East not yet in existence? A lot of those schools were charter members of the Big East which was very quickly THE basketball conference ahead of the ACC and Big 10 (B1G for those that don't remember!)

One problem: Tulane wouldn't have sniffed a division title for a very long time in that conference. But who knows, maybe the money it attracted and the recruiting benefits (a whole lot of those games would have been televised) would have changed our tides.

But it never came close to happening. We were closer when Cowen messed up everything by hiring Chris Scelfo instead of Rich Rod. That, along with Cowen's reign of error, set us back not just 20 years, but really into an almost impossible to get out of "afterthought" category for Athletic Relevance.

D, this was all pre Big East. But you need to look at when that was, 1990. In 1990, we beat Syracuse, we beat Cincinnati, we lost to Memphis by 7 and LSU by 3. Florida St was #2 in the country when we played them, and we lost 31-13. The big money wasn't rolling for most of these schools because they were all independents. South Carolina was 6-5, as was Virginia Tech. Pitt was 3-7-1, Boston College was 4-7, just like Tulane that year. The powerhouse at the time were Fla St and Miami, who was in the last season of Dennis Erickson's coaching tenure and were consistently winning 10 games. If this would have ever come about, I think there's a good chance we'd have made it into one of the P5s by now.
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I have nothing against Tulsa (or Ecu for that matter ) but it’s interesting when people mock the aac it’s usually those two that are first mentioned. I like that ecu seems to be turning things around with $20m diverted in new funds to athletics and a new ad and coach to turn around their program. We are usually third in that list. And while you can mention our records in the aac, you should probably also look at our ceilings and benefits as well. Tulsa is a tiny private college with a 900m endowment and an enrollment of 4,300 students total. Tulane is more than 3 times that’s size with an endowment about 400m larger. Their tv market is 63rd ours is 53rd. That’s not drastic but definetly worth noting. And yes I’m sure we would be in the conversation to be kicked out right after Tulsa and ecu
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Bicoastalwave wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:02 pm I have nothing against Tulsa (or Ecu for that matter ) but it’s interesting when people mock the aac it’s usually those two that are first mentioned. I like that ecu seems to be turning things around with $20m diverted in new funds to athletics and a new ad and coach to turn around their program. We are usually third in that list. And while you can mention our records in the aac, you should probably also look at our ceilings and benefits as well. Tulsa is a tiny private college with a 900m endowment and an enrollment of 4,300 students total. Tulane is more than 3 times that’s size with an endowment about 400m larger. Their tv market is 63rd ours is 53rd. That’s not drastic but definetly worth noting. And yes I’m sure we would be in the conversation to be kicked out right after Tulsa and ecu
ECU has won a whole lot more since the turn of the century than Tulane has. in 2013 we were very lucky to face them with key injuries: they OWNED us to that point. A year or two later, they made a terrible decision to fire their coach. Before that, they were consistently in the second twenty five or so of FBS programs. They were a proud program representing Eastern Carolina, a region that crosses both North and South Carolina. They put way WAY more fannies in their stands than Tulane and had better TV ratings. Remember our TV ratings STINK.

And your comparisons of endowments doesn't work. Sorry, but if a school (Tulsa) that's a fraction of Tulane's size has an endowment that's a much larger fraction (and that statistic laughs in the face of academic ranking no less) than that of Tulane's, then they're winning.the endowment contest by a wide margin. What P5 expansion and Media Contracts is really about is how many WATCH THE GAMES. I think we're DFL in the conference in that category.

The fact of the matter is we're going to be lumped with both Tulsa and ECU if the contract includes clauses that the bigger draws don't leave the conference. Because of a lack of fan base, we don't get paid as much as those that do have a fan base under the terms being discussed in the two articles which this thread is predicated upon.
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Yawn. My comment spoke more to our potential then our current position. We have done our absolute best to discover our floor, and only now beginning to reverse that trend. You are accurate that Tulsa & ecu has shown us their ceiling. As I recall ECU & Tulsa actually were not only the last teams invited but they were only invited because the conference had Boise and SDSU at the last moment pull out.

Endowment per student is a metric that could be used but “sorry”, that’s not some end all be all stat and can be very misleading. Using an extreme example- what’s the endowment per student for UCF ? We can point to examples on both sides of this argument, it’s a single data point.
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Didn’t Memphis get eliminated before Tulane a few years ago when several AAC schools made their presentation for a Big 12 invitation? Seems to me that expansion won’t be coming up for another five years and we still have time to put ourselves in a position for a Big 12 invite especially if we see big improvements in football. Tulane should adamantly say no to an unequal distribution of revenue. We need to be on an equal playing field with our conference mates financially as we will be competing with them for a future Big 12 invite.
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Sunamiwave wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:21 am Didn’t Memphis get eliminated before Tulane a few years ago when several AAC schools made their presentation for a Big 12 invitation? Seems to me that expansion won’t be coming up for another five years and we still have time to put ourselves in a position for a Big 12 invite especially if we see big improvements in football. Tulane should adamantly say no to an unequal distribution of revenue. We need to be on an equal playing field with our conference mates financially as we will be competing with them for a future Big 12 invite.
Memphis was eliminated from consoideation becasue of it's academc standings, these college Prez's need to show up at athletic type things and have some input
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tpstulane wrote: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:47 am TV money across the board probably going to shrink.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... tributions
I agree with this—thanks to Cowen, we have missed the financial Golden Era for college athletics. Relative revenue in total will decrease for all. That in turn will do two things, within each conference revenue sharing will increasingly be based on a combination of on-field success and eyeballs watching the games (in the stands and on the tube) —sorry P5 parasites, your free ride will be ending. Secondly, the reduced revenue will drive cost-cutting efforts by all schools and conferences—which might create an impetus for four-division sixteen team conferences—which would reduce travel costs, improve geographic rivalries, and provide each conference with a natural three-game playoff. Big changes are coming for all conferences, but just getting into a P5 isn’t going to be a license to print money any longer—every school will have to earn what it gets.
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Bicoastalwave wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:17 pm Just for fun speculation: What is the minimum yearly revenue per team we would like to see from our next TV deal ?

I think the question boils down to what is the next goal ? Separate from rest of G5 further ? Enough revenue to entice BYU/Boise/SDSU to join ? Enough $$ to protect our teams from having their HC’s poached?

Obviously close the gap with P5 & have pay equality is the ultimate goal but what’s realistic and what would we be happy with ? $6m ? 10m ? 15m ?

I was in Newport and had conversations with Troy & WF, but was mostly focused on being appalled by the LSU’s hubris. They were extremely transparanet. I wish I had asked how much money will be required to keep our current Athletic department spending where it is and furthermore how big does the deal need to be to keep our conference solvent ? It sure as shit isn’t $1.9m per team with the Big East pay outs coming to an end.

I look forward to hearing everyone’s insights
Aresco could really strengthen his negotiating hand if he could get BYU, BSU, SDSU and Colo. St to form an AAC West Division. Put Tulane, UH, SMU and Tulsa in an AAC Midwest Division, Memphis, Cincy, Temple and UConn in an AAC North and UCF, USF, ECU and Navy in an AAC South Division. Three-game playoff and a much bigger TV contract. This would also sink the Mountain West, and clearly put the AAC in a real P6 position. Once the college football playoff expands to 8 teams, all the P6 conferences will get a team in—plus two at larges. Once conferences start allocating revenue based on eyeballs and wins, there will be little resistance by the football factories to restructuring all the conferences.
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HoustonWave wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:28 am
tpstulane wrote: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:47 am TV money across the board probably going to shrink.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... tributions
I agree with this—thanks to Cowen, we have missed the financial Golden Era for college athletics. Relative revenue in total will decrease for all. That in turn will do two things, within each conference revenue sharing will increasingly be based on a combination of on-field success and eyeballs watching the games (in the stands and on the tube) —sorry P5 parasites, your free ride will be ending. Secondly, the reduced revenue will drive cost-cutting efforts by all schools and conferences—which might create an impetus for four-division sixteen team conferences—which would reduce travel costs, improve geographic rivalries, and provide each conference with a natural three-game playoff. Big changes are coming for all conferences, but just getting into a P5 isn’t going to be a license to print money any longer—every school will have to earn what it gets.
Maybe, maybe not.

There is serious money in play for the right content, and, as long P5 football is the second most valuable TV rights after NFL, it will be the right content. As an example, Netflix just paid $100M to hold the rights of the show Friends for one year, and, as another example, Amazon paid $130M to stream Thursday night NFL games this season.
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Also, the AAC made a mistake by adding Tulsa and ECU, as those programs were added solely for their on the field performance - which is something that should never be done - and look how that has turned out for the conference. Those two slots are extremely valuable and will come back to haunt the conference for years to come.

Expelling them and trying to get any two (or 4) of Army, Air Force, BYU, Boise State, SDSU, or even UNLV with a grant of rights deal on top would be huge.
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Aberzombie1892 wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:49 am Also, the AAC made a mistake by adding Tulsa and ECU, as those programs were added solely for their on the field performance - which is something that should never be done - and look how that has turned out for the conference. Those two slots are extremely valuable and will come back to haunt the conference for years to come.

Expelling them and trying to get any two (or 4) of Army, Air Force, BYU, Boise State, SDSU, or even UNLV with a grant of rights deal on top would be huge.
And Tulane might be kicked out with them, as our TV ratings are absolutely no better, regardless of the size of the New Orleans market. And if you read those article closely, Tulane is NOT among the schools that the next media deal would require to sign a grant of rights agreement. We have no following so we're meaningless to the media deal. Literally, our games barely register on the ratings scale, and sometimes don't even draw a decimal number.
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Aberzombie1892 wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:54 am
HoustonWave wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:28 am
tpstulane wrote: Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:47 am TV money across the board probably going to shrink.
https://www.sbnation.com/college-footba ... tributions
I agree with this—thanks to Cowen, we have missed the financial Golden Era for college athletics. Relative revenue in total will decrease for all. That in turn will do two things, within each conference revenue sharing will increasingly be based on a combination of on-field success and eyeballs watching the games (in the stands and on the tube) —sorry P5 parasites, your free ride will be ending. Secondly, the reduced revenue will drive cost-cutting efforts by all schools and conferences—which might create an impetus for four-division sixteen team conferences—which would reduce travel costs, improve geographic rivalries, and provide each conference with a natural three-game playoff. Big changes are coming for all conferences, but just getting into a P5 isn’t going to be a license to print money any longer—every school will have to earn what it gets.
Maybe, maybe not.

There is serious money in play for the right content, and, as long P5 football is the second most valuable TV rights after NFL, it will be the right content. As an example, Netflix just paid $100M to hold the rights of the show Friends for one year, and, as another example, Amazon paid $130M to stream Thursday night NFL games this season.
P5 content isn’t doing much for ESPN because they simply paid way too much for it. Amazon, Netflix, or others could make the same mistake, but there is a strong lesson to be learned from the ESPN financial hemmorage. A hemmoraging that could have easily been worse if the Big XII had expanded a couple years ago. There will be plenty of bidding for future content, but I doubt the $/hour rates will be anything like what they have been—and that is what will trigger the domino effect of revenue reallocation and cost cutting. Revenue Reallocation + Cost cutting = Conference Realignment.
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Bicoastalwave wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:19 am Yawn. My comment spoke more to our potential then our current position. We have done our absolute best to discover our floor, and only now beginning to reverse that trend. You are accurate that Tulsa & ecu has shown us their ceiling. As I recall ECU & Tulsa actually were not only the last teams invited but they were only invited because the conference had Boise and SDSU at the last moment pull out.

Endowment per student is a metric that could be used but “sorry”, that’s not some end all be all stat and can be very misleading. Using an extreme example- what’s the endowment per student for UCF ? We can point to examples on both sides of this argument, it’s a single data point.
You brought up the Endowment argument, I simply pointed out that a school with inferior academics and 1/4 to 1/3 the size of Tulane has an Endowment that's 3/4 as large as Tulane's. If you're going to argue about endowment, we lose.
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DfromCT wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:15 am
Aberzombie1892 wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:49 am Also, the AAC made a mistake by adding Tulsa and ECU, as those programs were added solely for their on the field performance - which is something that should never be done - and look how that has turned out for the conference. Those two slots are extremely valuable and will come back to haunt the conference for years to come.

Expelling them and trying to get any two (or 4) of Army, Air Force, BYU, Boise State, SDSU, or even UNLV with a grant of rights deal on top would be huge.
And Tulane might be kicked out with them, as our TV ratings are absolutely no better, regardless of the size of the New Orleans market. And if you read those article closely, Tulane is NOT among the schools that the next media deal would require to sign a grant of rights agreement. We have no following so we're meaningless to the media deal. Literally, our games barely register on the ratings scale, and sometimes don't even draw a decimal number.
Possibly. Tulane would likely not be kicked out before them, as Tulsa's situation in particular seems dire due to its resources for athletics (i.e. cutting athletic programs recently and retaining a lame-duck coach.)
HoustonWave wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:32 am P5 content isn’t doing much for ESPN because they simply paid way too much for it. Amazon, Netflix, or others could make the same mistake, but there is a strong lesson to be learned from the ESPN financial hemmorage. A hemmoraging that could have easily been worse if the Big XII had expanded a couple years ago. There will be plenty of bidding for future content, but I doubt the $/hour rates will be anything like what they have been—and that is what will trigger the domino effect of revenue reallocation and cost cutting. Revenue Reallocation + Cost cutting = Conference Realignment.
We will see. Regardless, the first round of streaming bidding will likely overpay, so the Big 12 would stand to benefit from that - especially if it can expand.
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Sunamiwave wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:21 am Didn’t Memphis get eliminated before Tulane a few years ago when several AAC schools made their presentation for a Big 12 invitation? Seems to me that expansion won’t be coming up for another five years and we still have time to put ourselves in a position for a Big 12 invite especially if we see big improvements in football. Tulane should adamantly say no to an unequal distribution of revenue. We need to be on an equal playing field with our conference mates financially as we will be competing with them for a future Big 12 invite.
And I think this should really apply to all conference members. How can you expect to compete in a conference if you willingly allow your competitors to have more resources at their disposal than you do? To me, any school NOT expected to sign a GOR deal should be AGAINST anything other than an equal split of the pie. See how far UCF or Cincy could get if they had to be an indy for a few years. Ask BYU how that worked for them.
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RobertM320 wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:20 pm
Sunamiwave wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:21 am Didn’t Memphis get eliminated before Tulane a few years ago when several AAC schools made their presentation for a Big 12 invitation? Seems to me that expansion won’t be coming up for another five years and we still have time to put ourselves in a position for a Big 12 invite especially if we see big improvements in football. Tulane should adamantly say no to an unequal distribution of revenue. We need to be on an equal playing field with our conference mates financially as we will be competing with them for a future Big 12 invite.
And I think this should really apply to all conference members. How can you expect to compete in a conference if you willingly allow your competitors to have more resources at their disposal than you do? To me, any school NOT expected to sign a GOR deal should be AGAINST anything other than an equal split of the pie. See how far UCF or Cincy could get if they had to be an indy for a few years. Ask BYU how that worked for them.
First I'd caution that the article doesn't say what D has implied it says. He has said if you read it closely Tulane is not being asked to sign a GOR. He needs to post the portion that gives him that impression. It appeared to me that they want all to sign it so there is stability to the contract.

Aresco is a good commissioner and he clearly knows that an unequal distribution would hurt the conference. I'll trust him on that issue. also as I said above I don't think that's an issue.
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He’s the man.
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There is no doubt bringing in two of army/BYU/SDSU/Boise as was the original and preferred plan would help the conference from a $$ Point of view and cripple MW solidifying our position as best of g5/p6.

There was an interesting paragraph that discusses that if/when the playoff expands to 8 teams and one is an auto best of G5 spot, that would actually make it a far easier path for one of the current aac dominant teams to make the playoff than if they joined a traditional P5. For example would it be easier for UCF/houston to make the playoff being in the big 12 or if they were in the aac with an auto include from the best of G5.
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Bicoastalwave wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:33 pm ...would it be easier for UCF/houston to make the playoff being in the big 12 or if they were in the aac with an auto include from the best of G5.
That would mean each of them would have to get past Tulane each year. :roll:
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winwave wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:06 pm
First I'd caution that the article doesn't say what D has implied it says. He has said if you read it closely Tulane is not being asked to sign a GOR. He needs to post the portion that gives him that impression. It appeared to me that they want all to sign it so there is stability to the contract.

Aresco is a good commissioner and he clearly knows that an unequal distribution would hurt the conference. I'll trust him on that issue. also as I said above I don't think that's an issue.
You asked, ww, here it is:
A bigger check might help keep UCF and Cincinnati around for now, but what about the next time they need Tulane or Temple to vote a certain way?
That's where the article IMPLIES that Tulane might not be asked to sign a GOR, and would thus receive less money. Think about it as a business decision: If a company has an opportunity to buy 12 items, and 3 or 4 of them are going to do a lot more to contribute to the bottom line for the buyer than the other 8 or 9, should that company pay the inflated amount to the 8 or 9 that they pay for the 3 or 4 that will actually contribute? This is a business, and it's important that we not lose sight of that. Aresco may save us, but until we build a fan base, are we really safe?

I don't know that it's going to be an unequal split, and I really hope not. I'm just saying there's a danger that it could. Didn't we NOT collect the same payout from the AAC our first few years that the others did? Just as folks like to talk about kicking out other schools, there's a danger that Tulane could be kicked out of the AAC. Our ratings are no better than ECU or Tulsa. We need a fan base. Without one, we're really not offering anything more than the city of New Orleans (which a conference can play games in without us) as our calling card.
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D- this was in the article I read:

'The conference is asking schools to sign a grant-of-rights agreement that theoretically would lock them into the conference for the duration of the next media rights deal.

The AAC’s current seven-year, $126 million package with ESPN expires in 2020. A new deal could be three to four times higher, but only if the top AAC schools commit to stay in the conference, sources said.'

They want all to sign to help with the next deal. More importantly no matter what any writer put out there it was shot down by Aresco.
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This was in the other article:

"The conference is asking schools to sign a grant-of-rights agreement that theoretically would lock them into the conference for the duration of the next media rights deal."

That again says that all schools are being asked to sign GOR's.
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