G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

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G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby tpstulane » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:05 am

This could cement the separation Cowen spoke about years ago.
http://www.espn.com/college-football/st ... er-5-teams
"There is absolutely no ability for us (teams in the Group of 5) to be in that national title conversation," Frazier said. "That's just reality. Anyone that says we can: that's a flat-out lie."


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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby DfromCT » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:52 am

Reading the entire article, it seems to me that very few G5 programs are on the same page as Northern Illinois. Most don't want a G5 playoff as they recognize that it would forever perpetuate the division between the haves and the have nots. Mike Aresco's response is "an emphatic no." Others say they don't want to compete for "a Junior Varsity national championship." By the time we're eligible to do so (2025) the playoff should have expanded to 16 teams. They could give every D1 (FBS) conference champion an entry and have a guideline of 4 "wildcard" entries from the P5 and 2 from the G5. Some years the G5 might not get their two wildcards, depending upon strength of the conferences.

I think it's a horrible idea and would, as stated above (and by folks with a whole lot more power and knowledge than me) drive a wedge between the haves and the have nots.


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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby netshorty » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:53 am

tpstulane wrote:This could cement the separation Cowen spoke about years ago.
http://www.espn.com/college-football/st ... er-5-teams
"There is absolutely no ability for us (teams in the Group of 5) to be in that national title conversation," Frazier said. "That's just reality. Anyone that says we can: that's a flat-out lie."


Thanks for posting TPS. Also from that story in case others haven't clicked the link to the story...

American Conference commissioner Mike Aresco has no interest in it either.

"The answer is an emphatic no," Aresco said. "We compete for national championships like anyone else in FBS, including the Power 5, and have no interest in any kind of separate championship."



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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby tpstulane » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:15 am

It's a bad idea for the AAC IMO. Wonder if each conference could vote for themselves what would happen if the other 4 voted for and the AAC voted against.


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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby ajcalhoun » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:25 am

DfromCT wrote: By the time we're eligible to do so (2025) the playoff should have expanded to 16 teams.


I'm sorry, D, but I just don't see that. No way the P5's will carve up the pie that much. I think we'll eventually get to 8, but that's it.


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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby netshorty » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:57 am

ajcalhoun wrote:
DfromCT wrote: By the time we're eligible to do so (2025) the playoff should have expanded to 16 teams.


I'm sorry, D, but I just don't see that. No way the P5's will carve up the pie that much. I think we'll eventually get to 8, but that's it.


8 seems like the logical number as it only adds an additional week to the schedule and would get us to a point where the bubble teams at 9 & 10 are far less deserving than those that are at 5 & 6. Applying to this year would have Penn St., Michigan and Oklahoma in, with other P5 3 loss teams still on the outside. Obviously the American is in a much better position current than the other G5s in that an undefeated American team would have a real chance to make it to Top 8. But as evidenced, an undefeated MAC team (W. Michigan) only rose to 15th. But if left as just TOP 4, I'm not sure an undefeated UH team this year with wins over OU and UL would have gotten them into the playoff. And in that's the case then the AD's are right that there is no way any G5 would be able to compete for a Nat'l championship with the current system. Even so, I'd rather win the American and go to a good bowl game under the current system than compete for a Division 1B (G5) championship.

But we are so far from worrying about that affecting us!



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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby lurker123 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:13 am

Several potentials. You have a twelve team playoff (or whatever number works) where G5s play in among themselves to get the slot. That adds more games for the G5 but at least you have an avenue in and it mirrors what NCAA already does in the MBB tourney. (This is also what England does with FA cup. "Lower" teams play among themselves for several rounds of eliminations while "big boys" have byes.)

Other solution: anti-trust lawsuit. Cowen should have done it in 1998 and it's still as viable today.



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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby HoustonWave » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:50 am

ajcalhoun wrote:
DfromCT wrote: By the time we're eligible to do so (2025) the playoff should have expanded to 16 teams.


I'm sorry, D, but I just don't see that. No way the P5's will carve up the pie that much. I think we'll eventually get to 8, but that's it.


Whether it's 8, 12 or 16, it will expand for two reasons. 1. Make the pie much larger, and 2. Hopefully reduce the number of irrelevant and god-awful bowl games.


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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby lurker123 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:01 pm

HoustonWave wrote:
ajcalhoun wrote:
DfromCT wrote: By the time we're eligible to do so (2025) the playoff should have expanded to 16 teams.


I'm sorry, D, but I just don't see that. No way the P5's will carve up the pie that much. I think we'll eventually get to 8, but that's it.


Whether it's 8, 12 or 16, it will expand for two reasons. 1. Make the pie much larger, and 2. Hopefully reduce the number of irrelevant and god-awful bowl games.


Bowl games do not have to disappear in name. They simply "buy" the playoff games like the existing system does for semifinals or neutral sites do for today's NCAA MBB tournament.

For example we have on Saturday, "College Football Playoff semifinal at the Chick-fil-A Peach Bowl" Say that without taking a breath! I'm looking forward to the "College Football Playoff Round of 24 at the San Diego County Credit Union Poinsettia Bowl." Whew........



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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby Eaglewave » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:51 pm

ajcalhoun wrote:
DfromCT wrote: By the time we're eligible to do so (2025) the playoff should have expanded to 16 teams.


I'm sorry, D, but I just don't see that. No way the P5's will carve up the pie that much. I think we'll eventually get to 8, but that's it.


I agree. I think it should be 6 with the 1&2 having a first round bye. G5 teams should have first dibs on the 5 and 6 seeds if they are undefeated. This would make things much smoother.


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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby winwave » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:03 pm

I'm against it and seriously doubt it happens. If it did though it could help the fans of G5's by lowering the cost of attendance. Right now were told "well the other schools do it so we have to". Well if we are no longer competing w/schools that pay $7 million to coaches then no sense in paying what others pay to see those teams. It would really make it cheap for many like myself that would no longer be interested in a lower level product. That of course is why it won't happen.


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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby DfromCT » Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:50 pm

The reason the playoff expands to 8 and later to 16 is all about money. Even if you only give the G5 champions slots and no "wild card" to the G5, it's a money making tournament that could outdo "March Madness" the biggest tournament in USA sports. Money drives the show, and money will demand that the playoff expands. As it is now, there's really not a big following across the country. Most don't give a hoot if Alabama wins another championship.

Those that argue it will never go to 16 are clueless. Ever other division of NCAA football has at least that many in their playoff.


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Should the G5 Have It's Own Playoff?

Postby DfromCT » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:38 am

This is a topic that the NCAA is keeping behind closed doors. The implications of doing a G5 playoff are huge: it will make for a bigger split between the P5 and G5. At the same time, it would add revenue and viewership for the lesser bowl games, and make the G5 conference championship games more interesting. I don't think a G5 playoff would ever generate the interest of a P5 playoff, but let's be realistic: the G5 will have a tough time placing ANY team into the D1 playoff on any given year. Had Houston gone undefeated last year they probably would have been in, but there's no guarantee.

What do y'all think?


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Re: Should the G5 Have It's Own Playoff?

Postby winwave » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:06 am

Terrible idea. We will then be a part of what we always viewed as 1-AA. Think recruiting is tough now imagine how rough it will be then. Can't see Aresco allowing that to happen.

BTW, what is the source for this supposedly behind closed door scenario?
Last edited by winwave on Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Should the G5 Have It's Own Playoff?

Postby tpstulane » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:09 am

DfromCT wrote:This is a topic that the NCAA is keeping behind closed doors. The implications of doing a G5 playoff are huge: it will make for a bigger split between the P5 and G5. At the same time, it would add revenue and viewership for the lesser bowl games, and make the G5 conference championship games more interesting. I don't think a G5 playoff would ever generate the interest of a P5 playoff, but let's be realistic: the G5 will have a tough time placing ANY team into the D1 playoff on any given year. Had Houston gone undefeated last year they probably would have been in, but there's no guarantee.

What do y'all think?

Until there is no hope left to move into the P5 I think it's in Tulane's best interest not to go that route at this time. Once you do that you basically create a lower division and are forever locked into the "kiddie pool" with no hope of ever getting out. It was a dream of Scott Cowen hence the size of our current stadium. You'll lose support as well. I wouldn't be a interested in supporting a program that doesn't compete at the highest level. I'm sure others would feel the same.


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Re: Should the G5 Have It's Own Playoff?

Postby NOLABigSteve » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:21 am

winwave wrote:Terrible idea. We will then be a part of what we always viewed as 1-AA. Think recruiting is tough now imagine how rough it will be then. Can't see Aresco allowing that to happen.

BTW, what is the source for this supposedly behind closed door scenario?

+10000000000

IF this ever happens, I'm done with Tulane football, because then we will truly be done trying to compete or be big-time.


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Re: Should the G5 Have It's Own Playoff?

Postby lurker123 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:28 am

NOLABigSteve wrote:
winwave wrote:Terrible idea. We will then be a part of what we always viewed as 1-AA. Think recruiting is tough now imagine how rough it will be then. Can't see Aresco allowing that to happen.

BTW, what is the source for this supposedly behind closed door scenario?

+10000000000

IF this ever happens, I'm done with Tulane football, because then we will truly be done trying to compete or be big-time.


You might as well go Div 3, save the money and join the Magnolia Conference or whatever it's called. With luck and nice weather, you would draw 2000 to a homecoming game with Emory.

Why not do this instead? Sue everyone of those folks from ESPN to the P5 consortium for antitrust. It will take 10+years to resolve but by then you will have won and at least opened the door somewhat instead of as noted above willingly jumping into a permanent kiddie pool.



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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby DfromCT » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:36 am

People are responding as if this would be Tulane's decision. It would not. It would be decided at the NCAA level. I think it's a bad idea, but I do think the P5 members would want this to further separate from the G5. I would hope ALL G5 conferences would sue the NCAA if this were to move forward.

It does reek of collusion at the highest levels, but rest assured it has been discussed.


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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby winwave » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:34 pm

Source?


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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby mbawavefan12 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:45 pm

http://www.capitalgazette.com/sports/na ... story.html


"ESPN.com contacted Aresco for reaction and he completely panned the idea.

"The answer is an emphatic no," Aresco said. "We compete for national championships like anyone else in FBS, including the Power 5, and have no interest in any kind of separate championship."

Aresco, who has launched a campaign for the American to be considered a Power 6 conference, elaborated on his thoughts during an interview with The Capital this week.

"From an American Athletic Conference standpoint, this would be a major step backward. It's not the direction we're going. We can consider ourselves a P6 conference," Aresco said."



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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby NOLABigSteve » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:46 pm

DfromCT wrote:People are responding as if this would be Tulane's decision. It would not. It would be decided at the NCAA level. I think it's a bad idea, but I do think the P5 members would want this to further separate from the G5. I would hope ALL G5 conferences would sue the NCAA if this were to move forward.

It does reek of collusion at the highest levels, but rest assured it has been discussed.

We have no one to blame but ourselves for being in this position.


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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby DfromCT » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:02 pm

winwave wrote:Source?


Cannot and will not be revealed, sorry.


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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby winwave » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:18 pm

So no source. Just stirring the hornets nest. :mrgreen:
Last edited by winwave on Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:19 pm

DfromCT wrote:People are responding as if this would be Tulane's decision. It would not. It would be decided at the NCAA level. I think it's a bad idea, but I do think the P5 members would want this to further separate from the G5. I would hope ALL G5 conferences would sue the NCAA if this were to move forward.

It does reek of collusion at the highest levels, but rest assured it has been discussed.


If the G5 hasn't sued yet, why would you think they would if anything changed? Out of the 180+ G5 schedules that have been played over the first 3 years of the playoff, only one was good enough to be even -considered- for the playoff if that G5 team had not lost any games (2016 Houston), so the G5 more or less has no realistic chance of landing in the four team playoff as it is currently structured. If that is not enough to sue, then I don't know what would be.



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Re: G5 conferences now considering having its own playoff

Postby Jaxwave » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:47 pm

Anybody who doesn't realize that P5 vs G5 is already split divisions is pretty naive. Look at the crowds at G5 games. With a few exceptions, the pubic has spoken that P5 is Division I and G5 is Division IAA.
Then look at the money and it looks like G5 is closer to Division III, when compared to P5. How the G5 schools allowed this to happen incrementally over time is almost criminal. And I haven't even touched on what a huge effect the P5 dollars has had on the academic side of all of these schools.



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