ESPN subscriber collapse

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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby mbawavefan12 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:16 pm

ajcalhoun wrote:I cut the cord to save money but I dropped ESPN The Magazine because of their politics.

I don't doubt that their biggest losses are due to cord-cutters but to say ESPN's politics are irrelevant to their troubles is just being stubborn.


I know dozens of cord cutters and numerous people who hate ESPN, never heard of the political stuff. ESPN the mag is crap and half the stories can be found online. ESPN, outside of sports and documentaries, is crap. I just think those factors are leading the way.



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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby Pepper » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:18 pm

Profoundwizard wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
tpstulane wrote:Political carnage now
http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017/02 ... left-turn/


Absolute nonsense article. They are losing subscribers because of cord cutters not politics. The vast majority of cord cutters are younger people who are more left than right.

I am very independent, but Breitbart is complete $hit.


Breitbart has turned to sh*t since Andrew Breitbart died, he was a Tulane alum too. However, Clay Travis at outkick the coverage, the site linked in all the other posts in this thread, also argues that ESPN's move left has hurt them. Obviously cord cutters is the majority of it but he may have a point or it could be BS. I don't really know or care too much. I pretty much only watch live games on ESPN.


ESPN, the NFL, etc should stick to what they know. I do like Clay Travis.


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby mbawavefan12 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:33 pm

Pepper wrote:
Profoundwizard wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
tpstulane wrote:Political carnage now
http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017/02 ... left-turn/


Absolute nonsense article. They are losing subscribers because of cord cutters not politics. The vast majority of cord cutters are younger people who are more left than right.

I am very independent, but Breitbart is complete $hit.


Breitbart has turned to sh*t since Andrew Breitbart died, he was a Tulane alum too. However, Clay Travis at outkick the coverage, the site linked in all the other posts in this thread, also argues that ESPN's move left has hurt them. Obviously cord cutters is the majority of it but he may have a point or it could be BS. I don't really know or care too much. I pretty much only watch live games on ESPN.


ESPN, the NFL, etc should stick to what they know. I do like Clay Travis.


The problem is there are two sides. If the NFL/ESPN doesn't some of these issues then the wacky left would stop watching. I mean how hard is it to just avoid shows that get political? All I watch is live sports, occasional sportcenter and documentaries, it's simple.



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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby Wavetime » Thu Feb 16, 2017 4:34 pm

mbawavefan12 wrote:
lurker123 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
tpstulane wrote:Political carnage now
http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017/02 ... left-turn/


Absolute nonsense article. They are losing subscribers because of cord cutters not politics. The vast majority of cord cutters are younger people who are more left than right.

I am very independent, but Breitbart is complete $hit.


I agree that cord cutting is more about economics than politics but then pray tell why were NFL ratings down this year?

Meanwhile ESPN dilemma may be good for G5. As noted in all reporting on this, ESPN content fees are mainly fixed for years and subscription revenue is declining. It may need to push for more CFB playoff games for more content/ad revenue before existing 12 year contract expires in mid-2020s. Pro leagues don't offer same opportunity for adding playoff games to already existing bloated playoff schedule.

If CFB significantly expands early then we'll see what G5 can do to participate in it. Meanwhile ESPN will look to cut costs where possible and this may be hard on G5 content fees in short term.


NFL ratings were down mainly for a few reasons: 1) the debates 2) bad games (particularly on Thursday) 3) over saturation and the fact that growth would stymie at some point 4) cord cutters and the inability to assess who was watching games on other media. 5) people fed up with managements antics (you can only crap on so many fanbases before people revolt).

Was the kneeling for the anthem a factor, maybe but really that was tiny compared to other issues.

ESPN was slow to embrace ESPN3 and streaming services so they are struggling to monetize those outlets but are pushing them hard. They got greedy with their fees and the cable companies had to charge stupid rates and people are sick of it. The most hated companies in America are the cable companies and they are getting crushed now with the future looking even worse. It reminds me of the taxi industry, the most currupt greedy group in the nation, well now they are getting what they deserve.

ESPN is still the king and they are slowly making adjustments. For Tulane this is real bad news as the AAC got flat out screwed on the last TV deal and by the time the next one comes up for bid ESPN will be in a bad spot which equals a potentially even worse deal.



mbawavefan12, I'm not criticizing your point of view, however, we are on opposite sides of the fence on many things. I am a Saints season ticket holder and have been for many years. I found myself not watching as many games (non-Saints) on TV this year (and I sold many Saints home game tickets) because I am getting tired of the Player antics. A player makes a tackle and he runs to the middle of the field and acts like he discovered the cure for cancer. Give me a break. There are many players that are humble etc, but it appears that the majority are acting like primadonnas so to speak. I can't stand it and I honestly believe that I'm not alone in this assumption.



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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby tpstulane » Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:42 pm

ajcalhoun wrote:I cut the cord to save money but I dropped ESPN The Magazine because of their politics.

I don't doubt that their biggest losses are due to cord-cutters but to say ESPN's politics are irrelevant to their troubles is just being stubborn.

The last thing I want to hear about on a Sports Network is politics. I tune into sports and entertainment to escape that. I drastically cut back watching the NFL because of the politics. And now it's almost impossible to watch a live entertainment/music award show without being subjected to someone else's politics.
I now only watch Tulane events on ESPN's Networks.


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby RobertM320 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:44 pm

Another nail in the coffin of ESPN...


http://footballscoop.com/news/youtube-m ... l-economy/

But one doesn’t have to squint too hard to see how the best part for consumers could be the worst news for conferences. ESPN’s business model is funded by a $7 per month per subscriber fee charged to each cable and satellite provider, a cost which providers then pass along to consumers. But, as we know, cable subscriptions are dropping — 40 percent of millennials do not have cable — and, as a result, ESPN subscriptions are dropping by about 300,000 per month (other networks are also losing subscribers; they just don’t have as many subscribers to lose). We haven’t seen how much of that $35 monthly subscription will make its way to Bristol, but if ESPN doesn’t get 20 percent of the overall take, the entire college football ecosystem becomes an expensive game of If You Give a Mouse a Cookie:

If ESPN makes less money, it will have less money to pay conferences
If conferences make less money from TV, they will have less money to give their schools
If schools bring home less money, they’ll have less money to pay coaches


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:58 pm

As long as more people watch the most popular P5 teams, the conferences that those teams reside in will make a lot more money than G5 conferences. So, even if the overall pie gets smaller, it will likely be some form of proportional decrease that would make G5 payouts proportionally smaller slices while P5s would still command proportionally larger slices.



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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby winwave » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:12 pm

G5 payouts are so small a cut wouldn't make much difference. The cuts will come from the P5's b/c that's where the money is and it will make a difference .


It's the facilities stupid!

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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby DfromCT » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:22 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:As long as more people watch the most popular P5 teams, the conferences that those teams reside in will make a lot more money than G5 conferences. So, even if the overall pie gets smaller, it will likely be some form of proportional decrease that would make G5 payouts proportionally smaller slices while P5s would still command proportionally larger slices.


This is dead on right, 'zombie. Many on this board have been predicting that the next round of media rights contracts will reward the AAC because of competition for content across a broader number of delivery channels. I would argue that if ESPN has to cut back, then the other outlets, whether they be cable, network or streaming, will also cut back and buy "on the cheap."

The bottom line is that the viewership is ultimately a finite group, regardless of how many ways it's sliced or delivered. Broadcast rights may be competitive with more bidders, but the bidders know they have to be able to make a profit. Advertisers ultimately won't pay four, five or ten different times to reach the same viewers who can only watch so much.

Should the AAC get more than we do now? Absolutely. Will it approach P5 money ($20-30 million/school/year) absolutely not. $6-8 million is more realistic.


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby winwave » Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:44 pm

Sorry but $6-$8 million for the AAC is not happening. I wish it was but it's not.


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby ajcalhoun » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:57 am

winwave wrote:G5 payouts are so small a cut wouldn't make much difference. The cuts will come from the P5's b/c that's where the money is and it will make a difference .


That's adorable if you think when the big dogs get hungry that they'll leave our crumbs alone.


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby mbawavefan12 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:41 am

ajcalhoun wrote:
winwave wrote:G5 payouts are so small a cut wouldn't make much difference. The cuts will come from the P5's b/c that's where the money is and it will make a difference .


That's adorable if you think when the big dogs get hungry that they'll leave our crumbs alone.

B10 just got a significant bump and the SEC just set records for TV revenue.



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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby winwave » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:54 am

ajcalhoun wrote:
winwave wrote:G5 payouts are so small a cut wouldn't make much difference. The cuts will come from the P5's b/c that's where the money is and it will make a difference .


That's adorable if you think when the big dogs get hungry that they'll leave our crumbs alone.


That's not what I said. I said the cut to the G5's would be made too but it's so small the affect won't be that great. Big cuts will come to the P5 b/c that's where the money is. The little they would take from G5's to make up for those cuts wouldn't help much. That's all based on IF the cuts even materialize.


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby RobertM320 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:32 am

winwave wrote:
ajcalhoun wrote:
winwave wrote:G5 payouts are so small a cut wouldn't make much difference. The cuts will come from the P5's b/c that's where the money is and it will make a difference .


That's adorable if you think when the big dogs get hungry that they'll leave our crumbs alone.


That's not what I said. I said the cut to the G5's would be made too but it's so small the affect won't be that great. Big cuts will come to the P5 b/c that's where the money is. The little they would take from G5's to make up for those cuts wouldn't help much. That's all based on IF the cuts even materialize.


Yes. If they reach a point where they need to cut $250M+/yr from TV contracts, they're not going to make that up by taking $10M from the AAC, although they'll do that as well. Its going to be more like $50-75M each from the five P5 conferences, which would be a hit of $4-6M/yr per school in those conferences.


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby tpstulane » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:41 pm

Massive layoffs coming to ESPN
http://trib.al/E69Hc3o
Reports say that ESPN management is being tasked with cutting “tens of millions” of dollars of staff salary from its payroll, meaning that on-air personalities are on the chopping block, according to Sports Illustrated.


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby RobertM320 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:57 am

http://www.outkickthecoverage.com/espn- ... ent-030617

Here's another article on the same thing. $100M in on-air talent to be cut at some point.

Hypothetical question here. What happens to those P5 schools that have already spent money counting on future rights monies to cover debt should ESPN choose to just go bankrupt?


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:29 am

RobertM320 wrote:http://www.outkickthecoverage.com/espn-cutting-nearly-100-million-in-on-air-talent-030617

Here's another article on the same thing. $100M in on-air talent to be cut at some point.

Hypothetical question here. What happens to those P5 schools that have already spent money counting on future rights monies to cover debt should ESPN choose to just go bankrupt?


They would just make payments on it over time just like they do now. The difference would be that the universities would likely have to extend the term of the repayment and/or adjust the university budget to account for more resources currently allocated elsewhere being redirected to repayment of athletic debt.



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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby lurker123 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:41 am

Everyone understandably is focusing on cutting costs. That certainly is the more interesting story. However ESPN can still raise revenues the old fashioned sports broadcast way. Expand the CFB playoffs. Make it 16, 24 or even 32 teams and revenues explode for all. No one anywhere has ever reduced playoff inventory. They always go the other way including NBA, NFL, MLB, NCAA MBB and NCAA baseball.

Why does this matter? G5s will be given automatic slots for conference winners just like MBB. Access matters where "mid-majors" won MBB, WBB and Baseball NCAA championships last year.

P5s will accept expanded playoffs before they accept a haircut in revenues. Existing bowls will be integrated into the system the same way they already have for current four team playoffs. You can book it.



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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby NOLABigSteve » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:08 am

lurker123 wrote:Everyone understandably is focusing on cutting costs. That certainly is the more interesting story. However ESPN can still raise revenues the old fashioned sports broadcast way. Expand the CFB playoffs. Make it 16, 24 or even 32 teams and revenues explode for all. No one anywhere has ever reduced playoff inventory. They always go the other way including NBA, NFL, MLB, NCAA MBB and NCAA baseball.

Why does this matter? G5s will be given automatic slots for conference winners just like MBB. Access matters where "mid-majors" won MBB, WBB and Baseball NCAA championships last year.

P5s will accept expanded playoffs before they accept a haircut in revenues. Existing bowls will be integrated into the system the same way they already have for current four team playoffs. You can book it.

Not trying to thread hijack here, but do you think some of those teams who make it all the way are going to want to play even more games, or if that is even a good idea for the kids??? As it is, Bama played 15 games last season. Just wondering.


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby golfnut69 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:23 am

NOLABigSteve wrote:
lurker123 wrote:Everyone understandably is focusing on cutting costs. That certainly is the more interesting story. However ESPN can still raise revenues the old fashioned sports broadcast way. Expand the CFB playoffs. Make it 16, 24 or even 32 teams and revenues explode for all. No one anywhere has ever reduced playoff inventory. They always go the other way including NBA, NFL, MLB, NCAA MBB and NCAA baseball.

Why does this matter? G5s will be given automatic slots for conference winners just like MBB. Access matters where "mid-majors" won MBB, WBB and Baseball NCAA championships last year.

P5s will accept expanded playoffs before they accept a haircut in revenues. Existing bowls will be integrated into the system the same way they already have for current four team playoffs. You can book it.

Not trying to thread hijack here, but do you think some of those teams who make it all the way are going to want to play even more games, or if that is even a good idea for the kids??? As it is, Bama played 15 games last season. Just wondering.


Steve, U actually act like those kids go to class !!!... what are U thinking !!!!!...or are U thinking ?...maybe U are in deeper thought than most !!!!


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby lurker123 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:40 pm

NOLABigSteve wrote:
lurker123 wrote:Everyone understandably is focusing on cutting costs. That certainly is the more interesting story. However ESPN can still raise revenues the old fashioned sports broadcast way. Expand the CFB playoffs. Make it 16, 24 or even 32 teams and revenues explode for all. No one anywhere has ever reduced playoff inventory. They always go the other way including NBA, NFL, MLB, NCAA MBB and NCAA baseball.

Why does this matter? G5s will be given automatic slots for conference winners just like MBB. Access matters where "mid-majors" won MBB, WBB and Baseball NCAA championships last year.

P5s will accept expanded playoffs before they accept a haircut in revenues. Existing bowls will be integrated into the system the same way they already have for current four team playoffs. You can book it.

Not trying to thread hijack here, but do you think some of those teams who make it all the way are going to want to play even more games, or if that is even a good idea for the kids??? As it is, Bama played 15 games last season. Just wondering.


Friend, I agree with your general point but when everyone starts looking at a pay cut the rationality declines. How many games did Texas high school champions play this year? Answer is sixteen. FCS Champions James Madison played 15 games and it received a bye in 24 team bracket. Someone without a bye could have played sixteen if it had won to the finals. So it's not impossible to envision sixteen or seventeen for a "few" current FBS teams. How will they justify it? Make spring football no contact.

I know I'm being cynical but I don't see colleges taking pay cuts amounting to tens of millions of dollars for "safety and academic" reasons.



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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby golfnut69 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:22 pm

Wavetime wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
lurker123 wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
tpstulane wrote:Political carnage now
http://www.breitbart.com/sports/2017/02 ... left-turn/


Absolute nonsense article. They are losing subscribers because of cord cutters not politics. The vast majority of cord cutters are younger people who are more left than right.

I am very independent, but Breitbart is complete $hit.


I agree that cord cutting is more about economics than politics but then pray tell why were NFL ratings down this year?

Meanwhile ESPN dilemma may be good for G5. As noted in all reporting on this, ESPN content fees are mainly fixed for years and subscription revenue is declining. It may need to push for more CFB playoff games for more content/ad revenue before existing 12 year contract expires in mid-2020s. Pro leagues don't offer same opportunity for adding playoff games to already existing bloated playoff schedule.

If CFB significantly expands early then we'll see what G5 can do to participate in it. Meanwhile ESPN will look to cut costs where possible and this may be hard on G5 content fees in short term.


NFL ratings were down mainly for a few reasons: 1) the debates 2) bad games (particularly on Thursday) 3) over saturation and the fact that growth would stymie at some point 4) cord cutters and the inability to assess who was watching games on other media. 5) people fed up with managements antics (you can only crap on so many fanbases before people revolt).

Was the kneeling for the anthem a factor, maybe but really that was tiny compared to other issues.

ESPN was slow to embrace ESPN3 and streaming services so they are struggling to monetize those outlets but are pushing them hard. They got greedy with their fees and the cable companies had to charge stupid rates and people are sick of it. The most hated companies in America are the cable companies and they are getting crushed now with the future looking even worse. It reminds me of the taxi industry, the most currupt greedy group in the nation, well now they are getting what they deserve.

ESPN is still the king and they are slowly making adjustments. For Tulane this is real bad news as the AAC got flat out screwed on the last TV deal and by the time the next one comes up for bid ESPN will be in a bad spot which equals a potentially even worse deal.



mbawavefan12, I'm not criticizing your point of view, however, we are on opposite sides of the fence on many things. I am a Saints season ticket holder and have been for many years. I found myself not watching as many games (non-Saints) on TV this year (and I sold many Saints home game tickets) because I am getting tired of the Player antics. A player makes a tackle and he runs to the middle of the field and acts like he discovered the cure for cancer. Give me a break. There are many players that are humble etc, but it appears that the majority are acting like primadonnas so to speak. I can't stand it and I honestly believe that I'm not alone in this assumption.


I personally love it when an overpaid dumb ass moron, who has not made on tackle all game, his team is getting drilled and with 1:30 left in the game he finally makes a tackle and runs to the middle of the filed to celebrate...


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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby Show Me » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:18 am

Disney owns ESPN. They are not going to try to generate new revenue. They are going to cut expenses. Their other properties are making up for their ESPN flop. I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to sell it off. They also own ABC which is tanking on it Bowl viewership since the playoff was instituted.



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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby lurker123 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:07 am

Show Me wrote:Disney owns ESPN. They are not going to try to generate new revenue. They are going to cut expenses. Their other properties are making up for their ESPN flop. I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to sell it off. They also own ABC which is tanking on it Bowl viewership since the playoff was instituted.


What bowl games are on ABC? They have a large regular season schedule of CFB with declining ratings but I thought all bowl games including FBS playoff games were on ESPN but perhaps I am mistaken.



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Re: ESPN Loses 4M subs in the past year

Postby Show Me » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:14 am

lurker123 wrote:
Show Me wrote:Disney owns ESPN. They are not going to try to generate new revenue. They are going to cut expenses. Their other properties are making up for their ESPN flop. I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to sell it off. They also own ABC which is tanking on it Bowl viewership since the playoff was instituted.


What bowl games are on ABC? They have a large regular season schedule of CFB with declining ratings but I thought all bowl games including FBS playoff games were on ESPN but perhaps I am mistaken.

LSU was on ABC with the Citrus Bowl. The Las Vegas Bowl Was another I remember. Best to google the entire TV 2016 schedule to get the rest. Most were on ESPN but ABC did carry a few.



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