The Never Ending Gift of Cowen

Discuss anything else athletic or non-athletic related that doesn't belong on the main Tulane athletics forum.
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tpstulane
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Mon May 14, 2018 2:49 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 1:43 pm
tpstulane wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:02 am
Glad he finally admitted he wanted to go DIII and regrets his decision not to go DIII to this day. Everyone around at that time knew it. Hard to believe he still doesn’t understand what a successful athletic program does for the University as a whole. Ask Alabama and others.
Maybe, but Alabama is an unfair comparison as the two institutions are quite different as Tulane has a number of factors that it has to account for that make its situation more limited.

Enrollment is a good example of this. Tulane is landlocked, but requires freshmen and sophomores to live on campus, and, while that rule could be removed, doing so would negatively impact Tulane's retention and graduation rates. Because of that, Tulane wants its enrollment to grow but not if that increase in enrollment would not be sustainable regardless as to whether Tulane won or lost games, as any notable increases in enrollment would result in hard decisions being made - repurposing buildings, building on limited land already on campus, acquiring a new residential hall off campus, removing the requirement and risking academic ranking, etc.. That's not even taking into account that Tulane would want any students that are part of an increase in enrollment to have standardized test scores in line with what the university already admits. In contrast, Alabama could expand whenever it needs to since it's not land locked, it does not require sophomores to live on campus, it really doesn't matter much to its rank if its median ACT goes up or down by one or two points in a given year, and there are a lot more prospective students with lower standardized scores it admits than the higher ones that Tulane does.
I use Bama because it hits home with me. They now attract more Jesuit students than ever. I promise you is not their academics doing this. In the past many of these Honor Society Scholars would attend Tulane. They are attracting better students because of their athletic success.


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Mon May 14, 2018 2:50 pm

Wave755 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:15 pm
I wonder if Cowen now believes it was a mistake to overrule Sandy Barbour and say no to RR in 1998? But, then of course, Chris Scelfo, Georgia's OL coach, did agree to $350K a year and "promise to stay"" ? :lol:
I wonder if Cowen now believes it was a mistake to pull the rug out on Scelfo in the spring of 2003 for the review after we had just won the Hawaii Bowl in December, 2002 before a large TV audience?
I wonder if Cowen now believes for his entire 16 tenure as Tulane president it was a mistake to refuse to pay a Div. 1 salary for our football coach and in doing so limited our choices for coach to "washed up" people like "Buffet" Bob Toledo or "shots in the dark" like Scelfo and CJ?
And, I wonder if Cowen now believes it was a mistake to totally neglect our potentially revenue producing Men's basketball program?


Thank God Michael Fiits is our new president and he and Hertz and Dannen decided to hire a real coach in WF and came up with the money for a competitive salary to do so. In 2018 we will reap the dividends for football of their leadership,

Cowen never really understood and still doesn't to this day understand football is the engine that pulls the train for Div. 1 athletics.

Happily, Cowen is no more! :thumbup:
I agree with 99.99% of this, I'll let you know about the other .01% later this year. But damn, back to the topic, go away Scott.
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Mon May 14, 2018 2:52 pm

IM42lane wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:42 pm
Wave755 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:15 pm
I wonder if Cowen now believes it was a mistake to overrule Sandy Barbour and say no to RR in 1998? But, then of course, Chris Scelfo, Georgia's OL coach, did agree to $350K a year and "promise to stay"" ? :lol:
I wonder if Cowen now believes it was a mistake to pull the rug out on Scelfo in the spring of 2003 for the review after we had just won the Hawaii Bowl in December, 2002 before a large TV audience?
I wonder if Cowen now believes for his entire 16 tenure as Tulane president it was a mistake to refuse to pay a Div. 1 salary for our football coach and in doing so limited our choices for coach to "washed up" people like "Buffet" Bob Toledo or "shots in the dark" like Scelfo and CJ?
And, I wonder if Cowen now believes it was a mistake to totally neglect our potentially revenue producing Men's basketball program?


Thank God Michael Fiits is our new president and he and Hertz and Dannen decided to hire a real coach in WF and came up with the money for a competitive salary to do so. In 2018 we will reap the dividends for football of their leadership,

Cowen never really understood and still doesn't to this day understand football is the engine that pulls the train for Div. 1 athletics.

Happily, Cowen is no more! :thumbup:
Cowen will NEVER admit that he was wrong about anything, period.
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Mon May 14, 2018 4:49 pm

Wow, what an "influential" guy! Probably singlehandedly kept Tulane from being a "P5" university which would have brought prestige and recognition to the City of New Orleans not to mention the MILLIONS of DOLLARS that "P5's" earn each year. Add to that the fans that would have travelled here for games along with the prime time TV exposure and press coverage.

Cowen , please take Dickson and just join the French Foreigh Legion or something. You and your white hair are now irrelevant so just ride off into the sunset.......
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Mon May 14, 2018 5:23 pm

i consulted with a friend in the Medical profession, he compared Cowen to Herpes, it is the gift that keeps on giving, and while there are times u don't see them, U always know it's not far away
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Mon May 14, 2018 5:48 pm

Cowen was penny wise and dollar foolish. He could never see the big picture. He really set Tulane athletics back for the ages.
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Mon May 14, 2018 8:26 pm

And, the Superdome was never our problem, but instead Scott Cowen was our problem for foootball.
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Tue May 15, 2018 3:16 am

Show Me wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 5:48 pm
Cowen was penny wise and dollar foolish. He could never see the big picture. He really set Tulane athletics back for the ages.
He set Tulane back for the ages, not just Tulane Athletics. He still is clueless. The gift that keeps on taking.
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Tue May 15, 2018 5:14 am

Total ass who, with his wife, raped Tulane to the tune of $ 1,000,000 + annually while doing everything wrong: the deficits, the rape of Newcomb, the rape of the Engineering School, the REDUCTION of the Endowment let alone trying, with his ass kisser Dickson, to destroy our Athletics with every ounce of his misguided energy
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Tue May 15, 2018 8:04 am

tpstulane wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 2:49 pm
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 1:43 pm
tpstulane wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 11:02 am
Glad he finally admitted he wanted to go DIII and regrets his decision not to go DIII to this day. Everyone around at that time knew it. Hard to believe he still doesn’t understand what a successful athletic program does for the University as a whole. Ask Alabama and others.
Maybe, but Alabama is an unfair comparison as the two institutions are quite different as Tulane has a number of factors that it has to account for that make its situation more limited.

Enrollment is a good example of this. Tulane is landlocked, but requires freshmen and sophomores to live on campus, and, while that rule could be removed, doing so would negatively impact Tulane's retention and graduation rates. Because of that, Tulane wants its enrollment to grow but not if that increase in enrollment would not be sustainable regardless as to whether Tulane won or lost games, as any notable increases in enrollment would result in hard decisions being made - repurposing buildings, building on limited land already on campus, acquiring a new residential hall off campus, removing the requirement and risking academic ranking, etc.. That's not even taking into account that Tulane would want any students that are part of an increase in enrollment to have standardized test scores in line with what the university already admits. In contrast, Alabama could expand whenever it needs to since it's not land locked, it does not require sophomores to live on campus, it really doesn't matter much to its rank if its median ACT goes up or down by one or two points in a given year, and there are a lot more prospective students with lower standardized scores it admits than the higher ones that Tulane does.
I use Bama because it hits home with me. They now attract more Jesuit students than ever. I promise you is not their academics doing this. In the past many of these Honor Society Scholars would attend Tulane. They are attracting better students because of their athletic success.
Well, there is no question that Alabama is increasing its academic profile due to its academic success. The issue is whether that has impacted Tulane. Considering that less than 12%* of Tulane's incoming freshmen classes come from Louisiana as a whole, that's not as significant as an issue as it sounds even if it's true - I'm not saying it's not, but I don't think there is a way that I could verify how many Jesuit students went to Tulane and Alabama both before and after around 2011 and the high school GPAs and test scores for those students. Further, as evidenced by the small percentage of Louisiana students and the details of Tulane's Louisiana resident guaranteed admission program (a 31+ on the ACT, a 3.6+ GPA, no disciplinary record, and an early decision application), Tulane clearly is not targeting in-state prospective students and has not done so for a long time, but, yet, Tulane just admitted it's most statistically "qualified" class ever while simultaneously increasing yield and decreasing its admission rate, and, as a result, it should see a better rank in the undergraduate rankings in the next edition of US News.

Because of that, it's unclear what the issue is on that front even if some Jesuit students went elsewhere - a handful of Jesuit students that potentially could have been admitted to Tulane choosing to go to Alabama, even if that happened every year, would have a negligible impact on Tulane.


*https://admission.tulane.edu/apply/getting-into-tulane
Note that with the above link, it is unclear whether Louisiana students in the School of Professional Advancement are included, but, given the ambiguity concerning how they are categorized as "New Undergraduates", odds are they are. As a result, the percentage of full time, first time freshmen admitted to Newcomb-Tulane college from Louisiana is likely notably lower than that 11.7%.
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Tue May 15, 2018 8:13 am

The Flutie Effect
Ever since, marketing experts and school deans have acknowledged the power of the Flutie Effect's ability to transfer a successful collegiate athletic program into a hot ticket for admission. Georgetown University applications multiplied 45 percent between 1983 and 1986 following a surge of basketball success. Northwestern University applications advanced 21 percent after winning the Big Ten Championship in football.


Enter Chung, whose recent research paper, The Dynamic Advertising Effect of Collegiate Athletics, shows how on-field heroics can benefit schools by increasing both the quantity and the quality of students they can expect to attract.

His findings include:

When a school rises from mediocre to great on the gridiron, applications increase by 18.7 percent.
To attain similar effects, a school has to either lower tuition by 3.8 percent or increase the quality of its education by recruiting higher-quality faculty, who are paid 5 percent more than their average peers in the academic labor market.
Students with lower-than-average SAT scores tended to have a stronger preference for schools known for athletic success, while students with higher SAT scores preferred institutions with greater academic quality. Also, students with lower academic prowess valued the success of intercollegiate athletics for longer periods of time than the high SAT achievers.
Even students with high SAT scores are significantly affected by athletic success—one of the biggest surprises from the research, Chung says.
Schools become more academically selective with athletic success.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworking ... 4cb4cc6e96
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tpstulane
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Tue May 15, 2018 8:21 am

Ruski wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:13 am
The Flutie Effect
Ever since, marketing experts and school deans have acknowledged the power of the Flutie Effect's ability to transfer a successful collegiate athletic program into a hot ticket for admission. Georgetown University applications multiplied 45 percent between 1983 and 1986 following a surge of basketball success. Northwestern University applications advanced 21 percent after winning the Big Ten Championship in football.


Enter Chung, whose recent research paper, The Dynamic Advertising Effect of Collegiate Athletics, shows how on-field heroics can benefit schools by increasing both the quantity and the quality of students they can expect to attract.

His findings include:

When a school rises from mediocre to great on the gridiron, applications increase by 18.7 percent.
To attain similar effects, a school has to either lower tuition by 3.8 percent or increase the quality of its education by recruiting higher-quality faculty, who are paid 5 percent more than their average peers in the academic labor market.
Students with lower-than-average SAT scores tended to have a stronger preference for schools known for athletic success, while students with higher SAT scores preferred institutions with greater academic quality. Also, students with lower academic prowess valued the success of intercollegiate athletics for longer periods of time than the high SAT achievers.
Even students with high SAT scores are significantly affected by athletic success—one of the biggest surprises from the research, Chung says.
Schools become more academically selective with athletic success.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworking ... 4cb4cc6e96
Thank You. That sums up my point. It also happened to Tulane after the 1998 Unbeaten year and 2005 baseball CWS. Applications surged.
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Tue May 15, 2018 10:04 am

The issue is that it's not as simple as it is being made out to be as there are variables that the study does not consider.

For example:
1. Does whether or not a university meets 100% of demonstrated need impact enrollment gains?
2. What is the impact on enrollment of winning a power conference (P5+Big East) versus winning a different conference?
3. Is there a discernible difference between the gains, if any, between public or private schools and urban versus suburban or rural schools?
4. Does the cost of tuition impact potential enrollment gains?
5. Does the geography of university recruiting impact enrollment gains?
6. Given that prospective students with higher test scores care less about athletics, what type of gains do high academic institutions experience in the modern high tuition era?
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Tue May 15, 2018 10:15 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:04 am
6. Given that prospective students with higher test scores care less about athletics, what type of gains do high academic institutions experience?
The two are not mutually exclusive. No way, no how. There are PLENTY of smart students (high test scores, scholarships, etc.) that also like athletics, just as there are PLENTY of average students (loans, mom/dad money, etc.) who could care less. An increased applicant pool because of the attention athletics brings to a school is across the board on all intelligence levels.
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Tue May 15, 2018 10:20 am

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... l-four-run

Donations up 660% at Loyola Chicago after a final four run, wait till they release their increase in applications. Ya Scotty Boy, athletics are not profitable.

and......

"Gonzaga's run in the NCAA tournament, beginning as Cinderellas in 1999 and now being perennial contenders, has done wonders for the small school. Between 1999 and 2017, the school saw its endowment grow from $67 million to $213 million (up 218 percent), annual fundraising grow from $13.4 million to $31.1 million (up 127.7 percent) and total donors grow from 7,006 to 13,261 (up 89.3 percent)."
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Tue May 15, 2018 10:30 am

NOLABigSteve wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:15 am
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:04 am
6. Given that prospective students with higher test scores care less about athletics, what type of gains do high academic institutions experience?
The two are not mutually exclusive. No way, no how. There are PLENTY of smart students (high test scores, scholarships, etc.) that also like athletics, just as there are PLENTY of average students (loans, mom/dad money, etc.) who could care less. An increased applicant pool because of the attention athletics brings to a school is across the board on all intelligence levels.
I agree, but the study cited says that students with higher academics care less, so, if the study is being used to support a point, it's fair game to question.
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Tue May 15, 2018 10:39 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:30 am
NOLABigSteve wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:15 am
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:04 am
6. Given that prospective students with higher test scores care less about athletics, what type of gains do high academic institutions experience?
The two are not mutually exclusive. No way, no how. There are PLENTY of smart students (high test scores, scholarships, etc.) that also like athletics, just as there are PLENTY of average students (loans, mom/dad money, etc.) who could care less. An increased applicant pool because of the attention athletics brings to a school is across the board on all intelligence levels.
I agree, but the study cited says that students with higher academics care less, so, if the study is being used to support a point, it's fair game to question.
Just an FYI, I do some work with Tulane as far as recruiting students. Strangely, I have found that many are actually not considering Tulane vs say an Emory, SMU, Vandy type school but in fact are considering whether to attend a large public school vs Tulane. Now this is not a big enough dataset but the last two students I talked to were considering Tulane vs Penn St, Pitt, Ole Miss, LSU, UT Austin and I believe Florida. Both cited athletics as part of their decision making and were weighing spending four years enjoying NOLA vs four years of a big time college experience. Just sayin.
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Tue May 15, 2018 10:47 am

mbawavefan12 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:20 am
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... l-four-run

Donations up 660% at Loyola Chicago after a final four run, wait till they release their increase in applications. Ya Scotty Boy, athletics are not profitable.

and......

"Gonzaga's run in the NCAA tournament, beginning as Cinderellas in 1999 and now being perennial contenders, has done wonders for the small school. Between 1999 and 2017, the school saw its endowment grow from $67 million to $213 million (up 218 percent), annual fundraising grow from $13.4 million to $31.1 million (up 127.7 percent) and total donors grow from 7,006 to 13,261 (up 89.3 percent)."
That's great, but neither Loyola Chicago nor Gonzaga are similar enough to Tulane to really make that point. Gonzaga's average ACT is 27 and Loyola's is 26, and, assuming that the study is correct that students with lower test scores care a lot more about athletics than those with higher scores, those programs would see a huge boost compared to what Tulane would experience given that Tulane's average is now 32. That also ignores that those two programs recruit new students locally and regionally unlike Tulane, which does so nationally with an emphasis on the northeast.
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:39 am
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:30 am
NOLABigSteve wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:15 am
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:04 am
6. Given that prospective students with higher test scores care less about athletics, what type of gains do high academic institutions experience?
The two are not mutually exclusive. No way, no how. There are PLENTY of smart students (high test scores, scholarships, etc.) that also like athletics, just as there are PLENTY of average students (loans, mom/dad money, etc.) who could care less. An increased applicant pool because of the attention athletics brings to a school is across the board on all intelligence levels.
I agree, but the study cited says that students with higher academics care less, so, if the study is being used to support a point, it's fair game to question.
Just an FYI, I do some work with Tulane as far as recruiting students. Strangely, I have found that many are actually not considering Tulane vs say an Emory, SMU, Vandy type school but in fact are considering whether to attend a large public school vs Tulane. Now this is not a big enough dataset but the last two students I talked to were considering Tulane vs Penn St, Pitt, Ole Miss, LSU, UT Austin and I believe Florida. Both cited athletics as part of their decision making and were weighing spending four years enjoying NOLA vs four years of a big time college experience. Just sayin.
That's the point of the questions I put up. It would be great if Tulane was better at athletics, but, given that it is not in a P5+Big East like Northwestern and Georgetown, given it has high academic standards unlike Loyola Chicago and Gonzaga, given that it does not recruit much locally/regionally unlike the overwhelming majority of other public and private schools, and given other similar issues, would it really experience the type of enrollment gains other schools private schools experienced even if it started winning?
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Tue May 15, 2018 10:59 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:47 am
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:20 am
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... l-four-run

Donations up 660% at Loyola Chicago after a final four run, wait till they release their increase in applications. Ya Scotty Boy, athletics are not profitable.

and......

"Gonzaga's run in the NCAA tournament, beginning as Cinderellas in 1999 and now being perennial contenders, has done wonders for the small school. Between 1999 and 2017, the school saw its endowment grow from $67 million to $213 million (up 218 percent), annual fundraising grow from $13.4 million to $31.1 million (up 127.7 percent) and total donors grow from 7,006 to 13,261 (up 89.3 percent)."
That's great, but neither Loyola Chicago nor Gonzaga are similar enough to Tulane to really make that point. Gonzaga's average ACT is 27 and Loyola's is 26, and, assuming that the study is correct that students with lower test scores care a lot more about athletics than those with higher scores, those programs would see a huge boost compared to what Tulane would experience given that Tulane's average is now 32. That also ignores that those two programs recruit new students locally and regionally unlike Tulane, which does so nationally with an emphasis on the northeast.
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:39 am
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:30 am
NOLABigSteve wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:15 am
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:04 am
6. Given that prospective students with higher test scores care less about athletics, what type of gains do high academic institutions experience?
The two are not mutually exclusive. No way, no how. There are PLENTY of smart students (high test scores, scholarships, etc.) that also like athletics, just as there are PLENTY of average students (loans, mom/dad money, etc.) who could care less. An increased applicant pool because of the attention athletics brings to a school is across the board on all intelligence levels.
I agree, but the study cited says that students with higher academics care less, so, if the study is being used to support a point, it's fair game to question.
Just an FYI, I do some work with Tulane as far as recruiting students. Strangely, I have found that many are actually not considering Tulane vs say an Emory, SMU, Vandy type school but in fact are considering whether to attend a large public school vs Tulane. Now this is not a big enough dataset but the last two students I talked to were considering Tulane vs Penn St, Pitt, Ole Miss, LSU, UT Austin and I believe Florida. Both cited athletics as part of their decision making and were weighing spending four years enjoying NOLA vs four years of a big time college experience. Just sayin.
That's the point of the questions I put up. It would be great if Tulane was better at athletics, but, given that it is not in a P5+Big East like Northwestern and Georgetown, given it has high academic standards unlike Loyola Chicago and Gonzaga, given that it does not recruit much locally/regionally unlike the overwhelming majority of other public and private schools, and given other similar issues, would it really experience the type of enrollment gains other schools private schools experienced even if it started winning?
https://www.tcu360.com/2016/12/success- ... niversity/

"In a spring 2003 edition of the Boston College Magazine, the director of communications for the Lynch School of Education, Bill McDonald, determined that applications to the school surged 16 percent in 1984 (from 12,414 to 14,398), and another 12 percent (to 16,163) in 1985."

"After winning in Pasadena, California, TCU gained over 5,000 more applicants than the previous fall. According to data provided by ir.tcu.edu, in the fall of 2010, 14,079 first-year students applied to TCU, while the fall of 2011 saw 19,166 applicants."

"From fall 2014 to fall 2015, applications rose from 17,029 to 18,422, which would have followed the stomping of Ole Miss in the 2014 Peach Bowl. They then rose again in fall 2016 to 19,960 after the miraculous triple-overtime comeback against Oregon in the 2016 Alamo Bowl. "

"“I think athletic success has been a big factor in bringing people to visit and look at TCU,” Associate Director of Admission David Stein said. “We do meet a lot of people on the road who say they first heard of TCU by watching us play football or baseball on national TV.”

BC US News #32 Endow $2.4 billion
TCU Us News #78 Endow $1.5 billion

A successful athletic program at Tulane would absolutely result in growth for the university. Nevermind that TU offers several competitive advantages vs other potential B12/ACC expansion candidates. I mean we got an AAC invite despite being a putrid atheltics program for decades, think about that.
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Tue May 15, 2018 12:06 pm

Saban has not only transformed the Unv of Alabama but the entire state of Alabama because of a successful football program.
https://www.seccountry.com/alabama/deca ... t-football
It took former university president Dr. Robert Witt and Moore to make football a priority again, and nearly every athletic facility was upgraded, including Bryant-Denny Stadium with the north-end zone expansion for $45 million.

Without that initial undertaking, Alabama never would have lured Saban from the NFL’s Miami Dolphins.
Before Saban arrived, the school had already begun an enrollment push, topping 20,000 in 2003 (20,333), and reaching a then-record 23,878 for the 2006-07 academic school year. For that fall, it received 15,761 applications.

For the fall of 2016, it received 42,802 applications. Enrollment was 37,665.

Normally when a school significantly expands the quality of its student applications dips. That wasn’t the case at Alabama. The average ACT score went from 24.2 in 2006 to 27.07 a decade later. The average GPA for the incoming freshmen rose from 3.4 to 3.69.

The geographical makeup of the student body also has changed dramatically. In 2004, 72 percent of freshmen came from within the state. Just four years after Saban arrived the university had more students from out-of-state for the first time.

That’s a huge boon in the bottom line. In 2006, tuition was $4,864 in-state, $13,516 for those from somewhere else. Following a steady stream of tuition hikes, the latest announced just last month, it’ll be $11,580 in-state, and $28,900 out-of-state for the 2017-2018 academic year. Room and board is another $13,224.
Stadiums get old, winning never does.
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Tue May 15, 2018 12:13 pm

During most of the periods listed, BC and TCU were in P5s.

Further, TCU primarily recruits locally (TX) and BC primarily recruits regionally (MA/NY/CT/PA/NH), unlike Tulane. For context, in Fall 2017, ~22% of Tulane's total undergraduate newcomb-tulane enrollment came from the South Central region (from TX through AL/TN/KY and below MO and KS).

It's easy for universities to expand recruiting efforts locally and regionally (based on athletic success and otherwise), but the issue is whether Tulane could parlay athletic success to recruiting more academically qualified students from outside of the South Central region.

At the outset, the answer would not be to change recruiting to focus more on regional recruiting, as MS, LA, AR, AL, etc. are not home to the highest ACT/SAT scores, among other issues. TX is neat, but Tulane's in a bind in recruiting in TX due to the top 10% rule for UT-Austin and Texas A&M along with competition from SMU, Baylor, Rice, and TCU. As a result, modifying the recruiting approach to focus on regionality would be a waste. However, that inability to focus on regional students could have a negative impact on athletic department performance gains as most students that would end up at Tulane are coming from outside of the region that would most keep track of Tulane's performance.
mbawavefan12
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Tue May 15, 2018 1:35 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 12:13 pm
During most of the periods listed, BC and TCU were in P5s.

Further, TCU primarily recruits locally (TX) and BC primarily recruits regionally (MA/NY/CT/PA/NH), unlike Tulane. For context, in Fall 2017, ~22% of Tulane's total undergraduate newcomb-tulane enrollment came from the South Central region (from TX through AL/TN/KY and below MO and KS).

It's easy for universities to expand recruiting efforts locally and regionally (based on athletic success and otherwise), but the issue is whether Tulane could parlay athletic success to recruiting more academically qualified students from outside of the South Central region.

At the outset, the answer would not be to change recruiting to focus more on regional recruiting, as MS, LA, AR, AL, etc. are not home to the highest ACT/SAT scores, among other issues. TX is neat, but Tulane's in a bind in recruiting in TX due to the top 10% rule for UT-Austin and Texas A&M along with competition from SMU, Baylor, Rice, and TCU. As a result, modifying the recruiting approach to focus on regionality would be a waste. However, that inability to focus on regional students could have a negative impact on athletic department performance gains as most students that would end up at Tulane are coming from outside of the region that would most keep track of Tulane's performance.
I really don't understand your point. The fact remains that athletic success = huge marketing gains. If TU put together multiple bowl games and NCAA bids, you don't think students from around the country would notice? The cherry is NOLA, every 18 year old would love to spend 4 years going to school in this town, and athletics would be what would drive their decision making over the top. Currently athletics are almost a detriment. Now, is it too late for TU to capitalize, IDK. Cowen blew our chances to move to the P5. Consider this, if TU and TCU had the same success between 2005 - 2010, would the B12 want TCU over TU? The conference had the dallas market well before TCU, they were just solidifying their claim and taking the school that would compete the best in conference. TU would offer better academics and a whole new market that is desirable from both a recruiting and fan standpoint (e.g. fans love to come to NOLA).

I don't know the solution but do believe it is all in or all out. Look at the investments the top AAC expansion candidates (Cinci, Memphis, UCF, USF, UConn) are making, Yulman and the Bball practice barely caught us up.

I appreciate the conversation, it is difficult to determine where we lie. What I will say is that Cowen blew a huge opportunity and did not properly read the T leaves in 1998. Not to mention he cancelled several STEM programs as a way to "save" TU when STEM was where universities were growing.
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Tue May 15, 2018 2:18 pm

Whether it's right or not (almost certainly not), you market your university with your athletic dept (predominantly football). That's just the way it is. Cowen was swimming upstream to the egghead elites that would pat him on the head and tell him what a noble guy he was even though it bankrupted his school.
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tpstulane
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Tue May 15, 2018 2:54 pm

I would bet if we had a successful football program ranked in the top 20 consistently our fundraising efforts would increase at least 3 fold.
Stadiums get old, winning never does.
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Aberzombie1892
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Tue May 15, 2018 3:25 pm

tpstulane wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 2:54 pm
I would bet if we had a successful football program ranked in the top 20 consistently our fundraising efforts would increase at least 3 fold.
Of course, but that's not realistically possible from a G5 for the same reason that Fuente, Herman, Rhule, Morris, Taggart and Frost are no longer coaches in the AAC, Fleck and Campbell no longer coach in the MAC, and Petersen no longer coaches in the MWC.

If Fritz ever gets the wheels rolling, he'll be gone as well.
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