Art Briles - Gone

[DfromCT]

I know we'd all like to believe that we have another route to "P" status by the AAc becoming #6. Sorry but that's not going to happen. There are no schools that the conference can realistically get that are going to have anyone bump the current #2 million in TV money to over $20 million. We need to hope the Big 12 waits and our new leaders are as successful as we think they will be .

I don't think that the playoff system has rules that would allow a non-P5 conference to become an access conference like the P5 the way that the BCS system rules did, and, as such, no matter what happens, we will not be a P5 conference in terms of access. Access is important because it signals that a conference is relevant and that it's champion has a good shot at the playoffs or a great bowl.

That doesn't mean that the AAC cannot be awesome. It's just we won't be considered a peer of the ACC (as it is currently structured) no matter how many of its teams we beat every year.

This is a serious thread drift.

At the same time, I'd like to add that if Hermann were to go undefeated in 2016, the Cougars would be in the discussion for making the playoff. They open against an OU team that many are picking to be the best in the nation.

[RobertM320]

I know we'd all like to believe that we have another route to "P" status by the AAc becoming #6. Sorry but that's not going to happen. There are no schools that the conference can realistically get that are going to have anyone bump the current #2 million in TV money to over $20 million. We need to hope the Big 12 waits and our new leaders are as successful as we think they will be .

I don't think that the playoff system has rules that would allow a non-P5 conference to become an access conference like the P5 the way that the BCS system rules did, and, as such, no matter what happens, we will not be a P5 conference in terms of access. Access is important because it signals that a conference is relevant and that it's champion has a good shot at the playoffs or a great bowl.

That doesn't mean that the AAC cannot be awesome. It's just we won't be considered a peer of the ACC (as it is currently structured) no matter how many of its teams we beat every year.

This is a serious thread drift.

At the same time, I'd like to add that if Hermann were to go undefeated in 2016, the Cougars would be in the discussion for making the playoff. They open against an OU team that many are picking to be the best in the nation.

I thinkone of the points is, OU could lose that game and still make the playoff. Houston can't.

[DfromCT]

I know we'd all like to believe that we have another route to "P" status by the AAc becoming #6. Sorry but that's not going to happen. There are no schools that the conference can realistically get that are going to have anyone bump the current #2 million in TV money to over $20 million. We need to hope the Big 12 waits and our new leaders are as successful as we think they will be .

I don't think that the playoff system has rules that would allow a non-P5 conference to become an access conference like the P5 the way that the BCS system rules did, and, as such, no matter what happens, we will not be a P5 conference in terms of access. Access is important because it signals that a conference is relevant and that it's champion has a good shot at the playoffs or a great bowl.

That doesn't mean that the AAC cannot be awesome. It's just we won't be considered a peer of the ACC (as it is currently structured) no matter how many of its teams we beat every year.

This is a serious thread drift.

At the same time, I'd like to add that if Hermann were to go undefeated in 2016, the Cougars would be in the discussion for making the playoff. They open against an OU team that many are picking to be the best in the nation.

I think one of the points is, OU could lose that game and still make the playoff. Houston can't.

I agree 100%, Robert. Houston MUST win that game to have any chance, and even if they do, if there's 4 undefeated P5 squads, they're probably on the outside looking in. It's going to be very tough for the AAC to get elevated to a P6 status. But it's also going to be equally tough to make a case for Tulane getting an invite when there's other schools out there with better resumes. As Winwave points out, we need to be as successful as we all hope this regime can be AND we need the next round of re-alignment to be pushed out at least 3 or 4 years to have a shot.

But there is nothing written that says only P5 champions can play in the playoff.

[Aberzombie1892]

Houston would need most, if not all, of the following to occur to have a serious chance at the playoff:
1. Oklahoma wins the Big 12.
2. No other G5, BYU or Notre Dame are undefeated.
3. The AAC has a season that rivals 2015.
4. Louisville has a great season.
5. Go undefeated.
6. Exhibit solid game control - blow out opponents that never spend time in the top 25.
7. BYU and Notre Dame have more than one loss.
8. At least one of the champs from the ACC/B1G/PAC have more than one loss.
9. Oklahoma has more than one loss.

[DfromCT]

Houston would need most, if not all, of the following to occur to have a serious chance at the playoff:
1. Oklahoma wins the Big 12.
2. No other G5, BYU or Notre Dame are undefeated.
3. The AAC has a season that rivals 2015.
4. Louisville has a great season.
5. Go undefeated.
6. Exhibit solid game control - blow out opponents that never spend time in the top 25.
7. BYU and Notre Dame have more than one loss.
8. The champs from the ACC/B1G/PAC/SEC are not all undefeated.
9. At least one of the champs from the ACC/B1G/PAC have more than one loss.
10. Oklahoma has more than one loss.

First of all, last year, (as happens most years) there was only one undefeated team before the bowl games and playoffs. IF Houston beats OU to open the season, they'll be ranked in the top 10, if not the top 5. Their last two victories will have been against Florida State and OU. If there's 4 P5 teams undefeated (or 3 plus ND) Houston won't get in. But if they're undefeated and there's only one or two other undefeated teams, they'll have a very serious shot.

So I don't agree with your 10 points at all. I agree with point 5, the other 9 are things that will help, but are not mandatory. Some of your 10 points contradict one another. BYU has less of a shot than Houston does, not sure why you included them. Any other G5 team that goes undefeated probably won't have played the schedule Houston plays.

The bigger picture is that a G5 team can make it into the playoff, it's just going to be very difficult to do. On that we can agree.

[RobertM320]

Again you're missing the point. Unless we can ever get the AAC OFFICIALLY recognized as one of the "P" conferences, it will always be much more difficult for our champion than it is for teams in the P5 conferences. And that's not right. If the AAC builds their brand where they are across the board competitive with the P5 conferences, then they should be recognized as such and give equal access to what the other "P" conferences get.

[Aberzombie1892]

I hear you, but it is a most list not an all list (as indicated).

Which part contradicts? An item may be more specific than another, but nothing contradicts.

Several assumptions are made:

1. An undefeated Houston would not pass a one loss P5 champ even if Houston beat that champ (Oklahoma). As such, Oklahoma would need to lose at least twice for an undefeated Houston to have a shot if it is the Big 12 Champ - which seems to be around a 30-50% chance at this point given the uncertainty at Baylor. Regardless, Houston would still need for the ACC/B1G/PAC/SEC to produce at least one two loss champ even if Oklahoma wins the Big 12 with two losses, and I'm not sure that a two loss SEC champ would be left out - so it would have to be a two loss champ from the ACC/B1G/PAC. If Oklahoma doesn't win the Big 12, Houston would need two conferences out of Big 12/B1G/PAC/ACC to produce two loss champs.

2. A one loss Notre Dame or BYU would likely be given preference over a G5 team due to their designations as P5 programs and their schedules are solid in terms of generally strong P5 opponents (not to mention their TV draws - it may be Ohio State 2014 all over again).

3. Other G5 teams going undefeated would impact Houston as well. However, it's impossible to have a discussion about this without knowing which teams we would be examining.

4. Houston needs its schedule to be solid, and that includes the AAC performing well and Louisville performing well as the Playoff Committee is really big on that and game control (i.e. destroying weak opponents).

[DfromCT]

I hear you, but it is a most list not an all list (as indicated).

Which part contradicts? An item may be more specific than another, but nothing contradicts.

Several assumptions are made:

1. An undefeated Houston would not pass a one loss P5 champ even if Houston beat that champ (Oklahoma). As such, Oklahoma would need to lose at least twice for an undefeated Houston to have a shot if it is the Big 12 Champ - which seems to be around a 30-50% chance at this point given the uncertainty at Baylor. Regardless, Houston would still need for the ACC/B1G/PAC/SEC to produce at least one two loss champ even if Oklahoma wins the Big 12 with two losses, and I'm not sure that a two loss SEC champ would be left out - so it would have to be a two loss champ from the ACC/B1G/PAC. If Oklahoma doesn't win the Big 12, Houston would need two conferences out of Big 12/B1G/PAC/ACC to produce two loss champs.

2. A one loss Notre Dame or BYU would likely be given preference over a G5 team due to their designations as P5 programs and their schedules are solid in terms of generally strong P5 opponents (not to mention their TV draws - it may be Ohio State 2014 all over again).

3. Other G5 teams going undefeated would impact Houston as well. However, it's impossible to have a discussion about this without knowing which teams we would be examining.

4. Houston needs its schedule to be solid, and that includes the AAC performing well and Louisville performing well as the Playoff Committee is really big on that and game control (i.e. destroying weak opponents).

I don't necessarily agree. If Houston starts out ranked, say 8th, and beats #1 OU the first week, and goes undefeated, I think they go to the playoff ahead of OU, though both could end up there. It's all hypothetical, but I see your points as well.

Except for BYU. When have they ever been in a P5? What makes them considered a power school? Their schedule, as discussed above, is not all that strong. With all the other Utah schools, plus UMass, etc. it's really only got 4 games that are top 30 type teams.

[Aberzombie1892]

I see the logic of saying that a Houston that beats Oklahoma would be above Oklahoma, but that is not how it would play out since Oklahoma has more opportunities to accrue quality wins than Houston does. Even if Houston beats Oklahoma, if Oklahoma beats Ohio State, it would very likely be ranked above Houston. Regardless of how that plays out, Oklahoma plays in the Big 12, which means it will face about 4 ranked teams in conference play. Houston, on the other hand, doesn't have a clear path to beating other ranked teams, and, even if it does manage to beat several ranked teams, odds are when the final playoff rankings come out, Oklahoma will have beaten more ranked teams on the final list than Houston has - this is because the playoff committee has shown that it prefers to rank P5s over G5s if both teams have the same record.

And this is before factoring in access status.

[DfromCT]

I see the logic of saying that a Houston that beats Oklahoma would be above Oklahoma, but that is not how it would play out since Oklahoma has more opportunities to accrue quality wins than Houston does. Even if Houston beats Oklahoma, if Oklahoma beats Ohio State, it would very likely be ranked above Houston. Regardless of how that plays out, Oklahoma plays in the Big 12, which means it will face about 4 ranked teams in conference play. Houston, on the other hand, doesn't have a clear path to beating other ranked teams, and, even if it does manage to beat several ranked teams, odds are when the final playoff rankings come out, Oklahoma will have beaten more ranked teams on the final list than Houston has - this is because the playoff committee has shown that it prefers to rank P5s over G5s if both teams have the same record.

And this is before factoring in access status.

Aberzombie, I totally get your point. But my point assumes (and we know where that gets us!) that UH is in the top 10 pre-season and gets into top 5 with a win over #1 OU. If that happens, and they never lose (which means they don't leave the top 5) they're in. It's not a totally objective nor subjective process. If you are ranked in the top 5, you're in the discussion. If you're undefeated and ranked that high, chances are 9 years out of 10, there aren't enough other undefeated teams to take you out of the equation. It's not like Houston is playing the Tulane 1998 schedule. Unless they take a significant step back, Navy, Temple and Memphis will be in or close to the top 25. UH plays a tougher schedule than BYU.

[golfnut69]

Former Wake Forest Coach...Jim Grobe has been hired by Baylor

[Aberzombie1892]

Former Wake Forest Coach...Jim Grobe has been hired by Baylor

I saw. It looks like they are keeping all of the assistant coaches in an effort to not experience a drop off in performance. It will certainly be an interesting season for the Bears.

[golfnut69]

Former Wake Forest Coach...Jim Grobe has been hired by Baylor

I saw. It looks like they are keeping all of the assistant coaches in an effort to not experience a drop off in performance. It will certainly be an interesting season for the Bears.

Coach Jim ...better be looking for a Briles disciple to run that offense....

[golfnut69]

The chaos in Waco.....read thru the article and many more article / links can be opened....this is some mess and some signees are not showing up

http://www.wacotrib.com/sports/baylor/f ... ea861.html

[GreenPuddleSplash]

It doesn't seem like this Waco thing will die down anytime and I expect more fall-out occurring. I know this is o/t, but in the same tune, next on the chopping block will be University of Tennessee and Butch Jones.

[Aberzombie1892]

Aberzombie, I totally get your point. But my point assumes (and we know where that gets us!) that UH is in the top 10 pre-season and gets into top 5 with a win over #1 OU. If that happens, and they never lose (which means they don't leave the top 5) they're in. It's not a totally objective nor subjective process. If you are ranked in the top 5, you're in the discussion. If you're undefeated and ranked that high, chances are 9 years out of 10, there aren't enough other undefeated teams to take you out of the equation. It's not like Houston is playing the Tulane 1998 schedule. Unless they take a significant step back, Navy, Temple and Memphis will be in or close to the top 25. UH plays a tougher schedule than BYU.

I understand that. I guess my argument is that a team in the top 4 can be dropped out of the top 4 even if they keep winning if teams beneath them accrue more quality wins (i.e. Ohio State and TCU in 2014 - TCU won by 52 points and fell out since it didn't have that additional quality win). For a hypothetical example, let's say Oklahoma loses only to Houston and Houston doesn't lose. Let's also say that Oklahoma goes 5-1 against ranked teams (not unrealistic considering 2 OOC teams will be ranked and it's not unreasonable to suggest that Oklahoma State/TCU/Baylor [yes Baylor with all of its assistant coaches still in place] and one of Texas/Texas Tech/West Virginia could be ranked) and Houston goes 4-0 against ranked teams (including the AAC Championship). Before the release of the final playoff rankings, the Committee would have to compare these two teams, and, while Houston did defeat Oklahoma, Oklahoma has a tougher schedule so it would be more fair to forgive a loss. That's before taking into account the strength of the non-ranked teams on Oklahoma's and Houston's schedule which the Committee also looks at, and it's unlikely that Houston's unranked opponents would have a leg up on Oklahoma's unranked opponents. Of course, this doesn't factor in access status and P5 bias, which will certainly be present in the debate room since putting Houston in the final four means that at least 2 P5 Champs will be left out.

At this point, all of this is academic since Houston will probably lose at least one game.

[Robert1969]

The best case for AAC to become a P6 league would be for the Big-12 not to expand, and for the AAC to continue to put distance between itself and the rest of the G5 in terms of football and basketball performance, while building its brand enough to build TV ratings where those TV dollars will be a given. Power conference designation is as much about money as anything else. The money comes with ratings. With ratings, high performance on the field/court, and money, Power conference designation would result.

Instead, the Big 12 is likely to expand to take Houston and one other AAC team. And then the AAC would become CUSA after Big East expansion, or, best case scenario some kind of AAC/MWC merger.

[nawlinspete]

The best case for AAC to become a P6 league would be for the Big-12 not to expand, and for the AAC to continue to put distance between itself and the rest of the G5 in terms of football and basketball performance, while building its brand enough to build TV ratings where those TV dollars will be a given. Power conference designation is as much about money as anything else. The money comes with ratings. With ratings, high performance on the field/court, and money, Power conference designation would result.

Instead, the Big 12 is likely to expand to take Houston and one other AAC team. And then the AAC would become CUSA after Big East expansion, or, best case scenario some kind of AAC/MWC merger.

There will not again be a P6. The media does not want more places to have to pay. The AAC, and all other G6 conferences will be totally unable to 'build themselves and their ratings up' because the media will not fund another 12 or 14 or 16 universities as it does the existing P structure now.

Our only path is to be selected by a P5 conference when it expands by 2 or 4 or 6.

[Aberzombie1892]

The best case for AAC to become a P6 league would be for the Big-12 not to expand, and for the AAC to continue to put distance between itself and the rest of the G5 in terms of football and basketball performance, while building its brand enough to build TV ratings where those TV dollars will be a given. Power conference designation is as much about money as anything else. The money comes with ratings. With ratings, high performance on the field/court, and money, Power conference designation would result.

Instead, the Big 12 is likely to expand to take Houston and one other AAC team. And then the AAC would become CUSA after Big East expansion, or, best case scenario some kind of AAC/MWC merger.

There will not again be a P6. The media does not want more places to have to pay. The AAC, and all other G6 conferences will be totally unable to 'build themselves and their ratings up' because the media will not fund another 12 or 14 or 16 universities as it does the existing P structure now.

Our only path is to be selected by a P5 conference when it expands by 2 or 4 or 6.

More or less this. We can become the "+1" conference and make a lot more money than the rest of the G5 (which will take awhile if we lose two good programs to the Big 12), but becoming a Power conference means gaining access, and and there is no way to achieve that access without intervention from a third party that could force the powers to be to make the AAC an access conference (i.e. the Federal Government). Theoretically, if Oklahoma and Texas leave the Big 12, which would trigger another major round or realignment, the remaining Big 12 members that aren't snatched by another access conference will likely raid the AAC for members, but, if that occurs, it is unclear if that Big 12 would remain a access conference.

[Robert1969]

The best case for AAC to become a P6 league would be for the Big-12 not to expand, and for the AAC to continue to put distance between itself and the rest of the G5 in terms of football and basketball performance, while building its brand enough to build TV ratings where those TV dollars will be a given. Power conference designation is as much about money as anything else. The money comes with ratings. With ratings, high performance on the field/court, and money, Power conference designation would result.

Instead, the Big 12 is likely to expand to take Houston and one other AAC team. And then the AAC would become CUSA after Big East expansion, or, best case scenario some kind of AAC/MWC merger.

There will not again be a P6. The media does not want more places to have to pay. The AAC, and all other G6 conferences will be totally unable to 'build themselves and their ratings up' because the media will not fund another 12 or 14 or 16 universities as it does the existing P structure now.

Our only path is to be selected by a P5 conference when it expands by 2 or 4 or 6.

More or less this. We can become the "+1" conference and make a lot more money than the rest of the G5 (which will take awhile if we lose two good programs to the Big 12), but becoming a Power conference means gaining access, and and there is no way to achieve that access without intervention from a third party that could force the powers to be to make the AAC an access conference (i.e. the Federal Government). Theoretically, if Oklahoma and Texas leave the Big 12, which would trigger another major round or realignment, the remaining Big 12 members that aren't snatched by another access conference will likely raid the AAC for members, but, if that occurs, it is unclear if that Big 12 would remain a access conference.

The case for anti-trust suit becomes so much better if you have the results on the field, the TV ratings, and no access. Also, I am still a strong believer in "money talks, bullshit walks." So here are the if, thens.

If the league is not poached...

If the league continues to put two or three teams in the top 25...

If the league continues its dominance of the G5...

If the league dominates the G5 slot in the New Years six games...

If the league continues to improve its TV ratings...

Then the next time TV contracts come up, NBCSN (which desperately needs quality college football) will NOT lowball the league, and ESPN will match or let us go, and NBC Sports would then have every financial incentive to lobby loudly for the league, and may even have to buy one of the access bowls, and what the media wants will change dramatically, and the case for an ati-trust suit will be made, and either the AAC will be granted P6 status (or would now have the money to wage such a protracted legal battle) and the legal wrangling will begin.

That is a lot of ifs. But the then, as a result of the ifs, are huge. There would almost be no justification for excluding the AAC. And folks are talking about cord-cutting. Cord-cutting may be just the thing that forces ESPN to play nicer here, and volunatrily reduce their monopoly on college football. When that happens, the other leagues will likely get in line. Again, yes, it would be very hard to do, but no, it is not impossible.

[Aberzombie1892]

Well, this is quite the about face.

(keep it classy Baylor)

http://larrybrownsports.com/college-foo ... les/308069

[tpstulane]

Well, this is quite the about face.

(keep it classy Baylor)

http://larrybrownsports.com/college-foo ... les/308069

Well that didn't take long.

[RobertM320]

Its all about the money.

The big donors that forked up all the money for their new stadium don't want to waste their investment.

[Bearwave]

Maybe the BOR finally read the report and found out that it implicated Starr and McCaw but cleared Art?

[Aberzombie1892]

Maybe the BOR finally read the report and found out that it implicated Starr and McCaw but cleared Art?

Maybe. The argument for keeping Briles (from the information available to far) is that Starr didn't not follow Title IX laws by hiring a Title IX Coordinator to assist with issues like those that affected Baylor and with training academic/athletic faculty/staff, so Briles should not be blamed for Title IX failures since he neither had the ability to hire a Title IX Coordinator nor did he receive Title IX training.

If this is the path that Baylor wanted to take, they should have said this immediately instead of waiting so long.