Big XII Expansion

Discuss anything else athletic or non-athletic related that doesn't belong on the main Tulane athletics forum.
Wavetime
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:34 am

RobertM320 wrote:
jonathanjoseph wrote:
golfnut69 wrote:I actually vote for the AAC games to be on Home / Garden...The Discovery...or History Channels.....soon all of the Big12 games will be on the "History" channel

Insider Info....The new conference will be called "The Big Tex and a few friends"
Would be very interesting. This means a number of universities are in line to lose their "P5" status and money, which might be enough chaos to set a whole set of changes in motion.
I don't think so, JJ. Word is they're working some behind the scenes agreement with ESPN/FOX and with UT/OU/KU. Let those three schools leave in 2 years with their rights, and networks give the remaining B12 a network and maintain P5 access, with a deal that extends to 2035. Those remaining schools will then have to fill out the conference, which is where our chance would come in. That's what in that last Twitter stream I posted yesterday.

One question that I'm thinking about is where do Oklahoma, Kansas and UT go? Do they join another conference or start their own. If it were to happen today I'd bet that Oklahoma would start up a conference with the other Big 8 schools and add WVU, BYU and Cinn. Texas would start up the old SWC and add Tulane and possibly the Florida schools. Of course, this is all speculation. I just think UT and Oklahoma would rather be the big fish in a small pond instead of going 7-5 every year.

Oklahoma
OK. St
Kansas
K St
Iowa St
Cincinnati
WVU
BYU
Colorado St
Air Force

Texas
TCU
SMU
Houston
T Tech
Baylor
Tulane
Tulsa
UCF
USF


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RobertM320
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:28 am

Wavetime wrote:One question that I'm thinking about is where do Oklahoma, Kansas and UT go? Do they join another conference or start their own. If it were to happen today I'd bet that Oklahoma would start up a conference with the other Big 8 schools and add WVU, BYU and Cinn. Texas would start up the old SWC and add Tulane and possibly the Florida schools. Of course, this is all speculation. I just think UT and Oklahoma would rather be the big fish in a small pond instead of going 7-5 every year.

Oklahoma
OK. St
Kansas
K St
Iowa St
Cincinnati
WVU
BYU
Colorado St
Air Force

Texas
TCU
SMU
Houston
T Tech
Baylor
Tulane
Tulsa
UCF
USF
Here's the rub though. Would either school be willing to do that if it meant losing P5 access? No. And there's probably no chance that both conferences would be granted access and go back to a P6, because they could accomplish that now just by making the AAC a P6. Not sure what would happen if both schools started new conferences. Which of those, if either, do you think would deserve "power" access?
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Wavetime
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 9:21 am

RobertM320 wrote:
Wavetime wrote:One question that I'm thinking about is where do Oklahoma, Kansas and UT go? Do they join another conference or start their own. If it were to happen today I'd bet that Oklahoma would start up a conference with the other Big 8 schools and add WVU, BYU and Cinn. Texas would start up the old SWC and add Tulane and possibly the Florida schools. Of course, this is all speculation. I just think UT and Oklahoma would rather be the big fish in a small pond instead of going 7-5 every year.

Oklahoma
OK. St
Kansas
K St
Iowa St
Cincinnati
WVU
BYU
Colorado St
Air Force

Texas
TCU
SMU
Houston
T Tech
Baylor
Tulane
Tulsa
UCF
USF
Here's the rub though. Would either school be willing to do that if it meant losing P5 access? No. And there's probably no chance that both conferences would be granted access and go back to a P6, because they could accomplish that now just by making the AAC a P6. Not sure what would happen if both schools started new conferences. Which of those, if either, do you think would deserve "power" access?
I don't know how to answer that. Texas is huge and in the top 5 of merchandise sales. Oklahoma is also big but not in UT's league. However, I'm sure Kansas would follow Oklahoma. If the remaining 7 schools can retain their P5 status till 2035 as the blogger indicates by signing away their GOR to the Big 12, then there is a case for both leagues to become P5 or P6.

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Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:11 pm

This is all speculation based upon winks, "on the hush hush" inside info, rumors, etc. I still doubt that there's a breakup of the Big 12 until 2024. Unless the NCAA grants "Power" status to the new conferences, and a whole lot of Universities that may or may not include Tulane get what they want, it's probably not happening. I've been wrong before, but I just don't see a bunch of well respected Universities walking away from the golden goose.
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:22 pm

DfromCT wrote:This is all speculation based upon winks, "on the hush hush" inside info, rumors, etc. I still doubt that there's a breakup of the Big 12 until 2024. Unless the NCAA grants "Power" status to the new conferences, and a whole lot of Universities that may or may not include Tulane get what they want, it's probably not happening. I've been wrong before, but I just don't see a bunch of well respected Universities walking away from the golden goose.
NCAA does not grant conference status to anyone be it "P" or "G". It's a contractual thing among the FBS schools/conferences to set up BCS system. Thus the scenario presented is theoretically possible. Is it reasonable or probable? I doubt it but it's ultimately whatever these folks negotiate.
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:51 pm

DfromCT wrote:This is all speculation based upon winks, "on the hush hush" inside info, rumors, etc. I still doubt that there's a breakup of the Big 12 until 2024. Unless the NCAA grants "Power" status to the new conferences, and a whole lot of Universities that may or may not include Tulane get what they want, it's probably not happening. I've been wrong before, but I just don't see a bunch of well respected Universities walking away from the golden goose.
I don't see anywhere where I suggested anyone would walk away from money. They'd only release OU/UT/KU from their GOR agreement early IF the remaining conference was still guaranteed P5 status. Otherwise, they're all in until 2025.
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 3:56 pm

lurker123 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:This is all speculation based upon winks, "on the hush hush" inside info, rumors, etc. I still doubt that there's a breakup of the Big 12 until 2024. Unless the NCAA grants "Power" status to the new conferences, and a whole lot of Universities that may or may not include Tulane get what they want, it's probably not happening. I've been wrong before, but I just don't see a bunch of well respected Universities walking away from the golden goose.
NCAA does not grant conference status to anyone be it "P" or "G". It's a contractual thing among the FBS schools/conferences to set up BCS system. Thus the scenario presented is theoretically possible. Is it reasonable or probable? I doubt it but it's ultimately whatever these folks negotiate.
Then it's up to TV to designate it P5. :mrgreen:
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:38 pm

ajcalhoun wrote:
RobertM320 wrote: Word is they're working some behind the scenes agreement with ESPN/FOX and with UT/OU/KU. Let those three schools leave in 2 years with their rights, and networks give the remaining B12 a network and maintain P5 access, with a deal that extends to 2035.
I don't buy it. Nobody will consider the Big XII without UT/OU/KU a power conference any more.
I agree. Hard to imagine the little seven getting much of anything. Most of them have decent enrollment and alumni numbers, but most of them also exist in TV wastelands. The AAC's urban-based schools will ultimately have more media potential that those rural state schools that reside in the "big flyover". Only UT and/or OU can salvage new conferences involving the little seven. Additionally, despite their mutual frustrations and disagreements, both OU and UT know they are better off not being in one of the P4, and that is why there is a better chance of those two forming new conferences than any conference built around the little seven. I continue to think the little seven will have to decide between an OU-led world, or a UT-led world.
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:56 pm

OU doesn't have to form it's own conference. As long as it is willing to dump little brother Okie State it can jump to the SEC whenever it wants.

UT could do the same but is much less likely to.
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Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:13 pm

lurker123 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:This is all speculation based upon winks, "on the hush hush" inside info, rumors, etc. I still doubt that there's a breakup of the Big 12 until 2024. Unless the NCAA grants "Power" status to the new conferences, and a whole lot of Universities that may or may not include Tulane get what they want, it's probably not happening. I've been wrong before, but I just don't see a bunch of well respected Universities walking away from the golden goose.
NCAA does not grant conference status to anyone be it "P" or "G". It's a contractual thing among the FBS schools/conferences to set up BCS system. Thus the scenario presented is theoretically possible. Is it reasonable or probable? I doubt it but it's ultimately whatever these folks negotiate.
When the NCAA voted to grant the Power 5 autonomy, they in fact did recognize those five conferences as the "Power" conferences. Yes, it is more about the almighty dollar than anything else, but the NCAA would have to vote to grant the same powers to the new conferences. Again, this talk of two new conferences is all whispers and speculation. If there was real juice behind it, we'd have leaks of discussions with networks and the (holier than thou) NCAA.

Edit: The new conferences would have to be assured that they would be acknowledged as "Power" conferences. Look at what happened to the Big East when a few teams left and the basketball only schools split off. They became the AAC and we're on the outside looking in.
Last edited by DfromCT on Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:06 am

I shiver in fear of the following PEE 5 schools, TD : memo , never schedule the heavy weights....Virginia, Maryland, Duke, Wake, Rutgers, Syracuse, Iowa State, Miss State, indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, Washington St, Arizona, Boston College,Kansas, TX Tech, Boston College, Colorado, Vandy, Jo Pa U, NC State many more who get a krap load of money, for producing piss poor results...if the PEE 5 concept was presented on Shark Tank, Kevin O' Leary wold tell them to take it behind the barn and shoot it....they are now dead to me
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:36 am

golfnut69 wrote:I shiver in fear of the following PEE 5 schools, TD : memo , never schedule the heavy weights....Virginia, Maryland, Duke, Wake, Rutgers, Syracuse, Iowa State, Miss State, indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, Washington St, Arizona, Boston College,Kansas, TX Tech, Boston College, Colorado, Vandy, Jo Pa U, NC State many more who get a krap load of money, for producing piss poor results...if the PEE 5 concept was presented on Shark Tank, Kevin O' Leary wold tell them to take it behind the barn and shoot it....they are now dead to me

I agree 100%. Those P-5 weaker school are more Privileged then Power....
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:18 am

golfnut69 wrote:I shiver in fear of the following PEE 5 schools, TD : memo , never schedule the heavy weights....Virginia, Maryland, Duke, Wake, Rutgers, Syracuse, Iowa State, Miss State, indiana, Illinois, Northwestern, Purdue, Washington St, Arizona, Boston College,Kansas, TX Tech, Boston College, Colorado, Vandy, Jo Pa U, NC State many more who get a krap load of money, for producing piss poor results...if the PEE 5 concept was presented on Shark Tank, Kevin O' Leary wold tell them to take it behind the barn and shoot it....they are now dead to me
I would like to see us schedule more of these P5 schools, though. At least it makes the schedule interesting. For example, would be fun to do a home and home with Purdue or Indiana, even Colorado.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:40 am

DfromCT wrote:
jonathanjoseph wrote:
Ok. So content does not matter, people just turn on their TVs and watch whatever is on their most recognized channels. All these media business executives who have been bidding up sports media rights have obviously been wasting their time and all of the underlying economics of the entire TV industry are wrong. Got it.

Just so you understand, if what you were arguing were remotely true, ESPN would give the AAC a $5M/year/school contract since they can get the same ratings at a fraction of the cost they are paying for SEC/B12/etc. That's what you are arguing.

Your not understanding the issue doesn't make me a troll.
No, Jonathan, you refusing to admit that ESPN draws more viewers than FS1 is what makes you a troll. All this talk about underlying economics and sports media rights have nothing to do with the point I have made. You love to stir up an argument, then throw a different angle on it, ultimately saying that you were not arguing the point in the first place. It's your mode of operating, and by definition it makes you a troll.
So FS1 had 5.7M viewers for Friday night's NLDS SF/Chicago game 1. Don't know what the competing AAC game on ESPN drew, but I think it's less than 5.7M. Please, DfromCT, explain how this can be true. I eagerly await your explanation. Also, for future reference, this is an example of trolling.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:43 am

RobertM320 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:This is all speculation based upon winks, "on the hush hush" inside info, rumors, etc. I still doubt that there's a breakup of the Big 12 until 2024. Unless the NCAA grants "Power" status to the new conferences, and a whole lot of Universities that may or may not include Tulane get what they want, it's probably not happening. I've been wrong before, but I just don't see a bunch of well respected Universities walking away from the golden goose.
I don't see anywhere where I suggested anyone would walk away from money. They'd only release OU/UT/KU from their GOR agreement early IF the remaining conference was still guaranteed P5 status. Otherwise, they're all in until 2025.
But there's no scenario in which this splits up and someone isn't walking away from money. ESPN/FS1 are hemorrhaging money and any split would necessarily require negotiations with a new entity. UT and OU can do better on their own, but every other B12 school has big problems in any such scenario. Guaranteeing them "P5" is meaningless if they are pulling in CUSA money, in which case they won't have the budget to put together a playoff contending roster.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:43 pm

Even if a modified Big 12 w/o OU/UT gets less money per year, it would still get more than AAC. And they'd be better off with 60% of what they're getting now + P5 access for 17 years (2018-2035), than they would be with full Big12 money +P5 access for 6 years (2018-2024) then no access and CUSA/AAC type money for the next 11. At least in 2035 they'd still be relevant because they'd have P5 brand/access, whereas if not, they'd be in the same place we're currently trying to avoid ending up by 2035.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:46 pm

Alot of folks on here are forgetting that it's not up to the networks to decide who's a P5 conference. The rest of the P5 conferences will decide if any new conference is a P5 conference.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:49 pm

lurker123 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:This is all speculation based upon winks, "on the hush hush" inside info, rumors, etc. I still doubt that there's a breakup of the Big 12 until 2024. Unless the NCAA grants "Power" status to the new conferences, and a whole lot of Universities that may or may not include Tulane get what they want, it's probably not happening. I've been wrong before, but I just don't see a bunch of well respected Universities walking away from the golden goose.
NCAA does not grant conference status to anyone be it "P" or "G". It's a contractual thing among the FBS schools/conferences to set up BCS system. Thus the scenario presented is theoretically possible. Is it reasonable or probable? I doubt it but it's ultimately whatever these folks negotiate.
The P5 conferences basically decide who's a P or G. That's how the AAC lost its status.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:53 pm

greenie78 wrote:Alot of folks on here are forgetting that it's not up to the networks to decide who's a P5 conference. The rest of the P5 conferences will decide if any new conference is a P5 conference.


But wasn't that also because technically BCS status was given to the Big East? And when the Catholic 7 split, taking the name with them, they just didn't give the AAC status in the new playoff format. I don't think they can arbitrarily say, "we don't like that OU/UT left the Big 12, so we're dropping the Big 12 from P5 access". I think that's what they're trying to make sure doesn't happen before they'd agree to let OU/UT out of their GOR deal.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:57 pm

RobertM320 wrote:
greenie78 wrote:Alot of folks on here are forgetting that it's not up to the networks to decide who's a P5 conference. The rest of the P5 conferences will decide if any new conference is a P5 conference.


But wasn't that also because technically BCS status was given to the Big East? And when the Catholic 7 split, taking the name with them, they just didn't give the AAC status in the new playoff format. I don't think they can arbitrarily say, "we don't like that OU/UT left the Big 12, so we're dropping the Big 12 from P5 access". I think that's what they're trying to make sure doesn't happen before they'd agree to let OU/UT out of their GOR deal.
It's all based on the football playoffs; When the new contract started, that's when the P5s booted the AAC out of the power status. They'll be able to negotiate again when the current contract runs out. The AAC lost its status because the teams who were responsible for the football Big East to be an automatic BCS conference all left to join other P conferences. Basketball has nothing to do with it.
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RobertM320
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:05 pm

That's basically what I'm saying, greenie. Once the new format came around, and there weren't any of the really good football schools left, they dropped the American from P5 status.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:27 pm

RobertM320 wrote:
greenie78 wrote:Alot of folks on here are forgetting that it's not up to the networks to decide who's a P5 conference. The rest of the P5 conferences will decide if any new conference is a P5 conference.


But wasn't that also because technically BCS status was given to the Big East? And when the Catholic 7 split, taking the name with them, they just didn't give the AAC status in the new playoff format. I don't think they can arbitrarily say, "we don't like that OU/UT left the Big 12, so we're dropping the Big 12 from P5 access". I think that's what they're trying to make sure doesn't happen before they'd agree to let OU/UT out of their GOR deal.
No, it had NOTHING to do with the Catholic 7 taking the Big East name. It had to do with Louisville, Pitt, BC and Rutgers leaving the conference that they were losing "Power" status. It was well known 2 or 3 years before they lost the designation. I'm not sure if it was just all members of D1 football, or all NCAA members, but the vote to grant autonomy to the P5 was by well over 100 universities, obviously lead by the "power conference" members.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:03 pm

P4, P5 or P6--no credible system is going to exclude UT and OU. If the Big XII splits up, these two schools would essentially be doing nothing more than recreating expanded versions of the old Big 8 and SWC--and they would likely be included in a playoff system. Such a change would probably be a big impetus for expansion of the playoffs to eight teams. The TV money is a completely different animal. I suspect if new versions of the Big 8 and SWC do evolve, the allocation models will greatly favor the schools with the most eyes. Also, if expanded versions of the Big 8 and SWC do come about, you can kiss the AAC good bye. In that sense, expanded versions of the Big 8 and SWC will bring more schools into the playoff model, and reduce the gripes and controversies that currently percolate across the country.
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:07 pm

Wavetime wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:
jonathanjoseph wrote:
golfnut69 wrote:I actually vote for the AAC games to be on Home / Garden...The Discovery...or History Channels.....soon all of the Big12 games will be on the "History" channel

Insider Info....The new conference will be called "The Big Tex and a few friends"
Would be very interesting. This means a number of universities are in line to lose their "P5" status and money, which might be enough chaos to set a whole set of changes in motion.
I don't think so, JJ. Word is they're working some behind the scenes agreement with ESPN/FOX and with UT/OU/KU. Let those three schools leave in 2 years with their rights, and networks give the remaining B12 a network and maintain P5 access, with a deal that extends to 2035. Those remaining schools will then have to fill out the conference, which is where our chance would come in. That's what in that last Twitter stream I posted yesterday.

One question that I'm thinking about is where do Oklahoma, Kansas and UT go? Do they join another conference or start their own. If it were to happen today I'd bet that Oklahoma would start up a conference with the other Big 8 schools and add WVU, BYU and Cinn. Texas would start up the old SWC and add Tulane and possibly the Florida schools. Of course, this is all speculation. I just think UT and Oklahoma would rather be the big fish in a small pond instead of going 7-5 every year.

Oklahoma
OK. St
Kansas
K St
Iowa St
Cincinnati
WVU
BYU
Colorado St
Air Force

Texas
TCU
SMU
Houston
T Tech
Baylor
Tulane
Tulsa
UCF
USF
I can readily imagine two such conferences. But I can also see two 12 team conferences, which would also include any four of the following: UConn, Navy, Army, Memphis, Rice or Univ of New Mexico.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
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Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:39 pm

HoustonWave wrote:P4, P5 or P6--no credible system is going to exclude UT and OU. If the Big XII splits up, these two schools would essentially be doing nothing more than recreating expanded versions of the old Big 8 and SWC--and they would likely be included in a playoff system. Such a change would probably be a big impetus for expansion of the playoffs to eight teams. The TV money is a completely different animal. I suspect if new versions of the Big 8 and SWC do evolve, the allocation models will greatly favor the schools with the most eyes. Also, if expanded versions of the Big 8 and SWC do come about, you can kiss the AAC good bye. In that sense, expanded versions of the Big 8 and SWC will bring more schools into the playoff model, and reduce the gripes and controversies that currently percolate across the country.
That's right. If there is some spinout, there's no safety net for the OSU's and KSU's. So UConn and Cincy would move up the totem pole, OSU and KSU would move down the totem pole, and lawsuits would ensue.
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