Big XII Expansion

Discuss anything else athletic or non-athletic related that doesn't belong on the main Tulane athletics forum.
JerseyWave
Riptide
Posts: 3833
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:09 pm
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:48 pm

RobertM320 wrote:Blackout 11/5
‏@TwittCommit
The XII seems to be as unsettled as ever & if there's a power struggle between OU & UT my bet is the conference will fall apart quickly.


Blackout 11/5
@TwittCommit
Reports this morning confirm OU may be looking to leave XII due to "rift" with UT. PAC 12 or SEC mentioned as possible destinations. - ESPN
Are Oklahoma and Oklahoma St tied at the hip?


User avatar
RobertM320
Tsunami
Posts: 6524
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:18 pm
Location: Destrehan, LA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Fri Sep 30, 2016 5:51 pm

I don't know. I've always heard that, Jersey. But that one guy seems to think that if OU/UT go their own ways and the Big 12 fails, they won't be moving as a package deal with anyone. Seems to me that means schools like OSU and Texas Tech, who have ridden coattails on those two for years, will end up being dumped.
"ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE! HANG EM AND BANG EM! HANG EM AND BANG EM!"-- Todd Graffagnini
User avatar
RobertM320
Tsunami
Posts: 6524
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:18 pm
Location: Destrehan, LA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:42 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:I was shocked when they announced the invite. I don't know if they're "not even as good as Tulane across the board" but certainly Rutgers was not any athletic gem. They do have tremendous upside, particularly being the state "flagship University" and in the largest media market in the US.
This. Rutgers wasn't added to the B1G because of the strength of its athletics or even because of the potential of the strength of its athletics - Rutgers was added in order to move the B1G into the New Jersey/New York market (exposure and the B1G Network) and it was 100% worth it.
You know, you have to question this. Does it still count as exposure if no one's watching? I can't believe there's very many TV sets in NJ/NY market tuned in to the beat down Rutgers is currently taking from Ohio State. Its 51-0, end of 3. At some point, just like everyone likes to point out about Tulane, don't you have to be somewhat relevant in order for your "market size" to matter? Houston's the 4th largest city in the country, but can you say Houston Baptist brings you the Houston Market for recruiting/exposure? Not really sure Rutgers is relevant enough in that market to give them the credit you do. I'd bet half or more of the people in NJ don't consider Rutgers their "flagship" university.
"ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE! HANG EM AND BANG EM! HANG EM AND BANG EM!"-- Todd Graffagnini
JerseyWave
Riptide
Posts: 3833
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:09 pm
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline

Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:10 pm

RobertM320 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:I was shocked when they announced the invite. I don't know if they're "not even as good as Tulane across the board" but certainly Rutgers was not any athletic gem. They do have tremendous upside, particularly being the state "flagship University" and in the largest media market in the US.
This. Rutgers wasn't added to the B1G because of the strength of its athletics or even because of the potential of the strength of its athletics - Rutgers was added in order to move the B1G into the New Jersey/New York market (exposure and the B1G Network) and it was 100% worth it.
You know, you have to question this. Does it still count as exposure if no one's watching? I can't believe there's very many TV sets in NJ/NY market tuned in to the beat down Rutgers is currently taking from Ohio State. Its 51-0, end of 3. At some point, just like everyone likes to point out about Tulane, don't you have to be somewhat relevant in order for your "market size" to matter? Houston's the 4th largest city in the country, but can you say Houston Baptist brings you the Houston Market for recruiting/exposure? Not really sure Rutgers is relevant enough in that market to give them the credit you do. I'd bet half or more of the people in NJ don't consider Rutgers their "flagship" university.
You are correct. Rutgers is only relevant in the NY/NJ market to alums and students of the University. They get very little coverage from the media too. All the sports talk shows are about Pro Sports. Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, NBA and NHL. There's never any Rutgers talk in New York, New Jersey. Notre Dame gets better coverage in this market than Rutgers.
DfromCT
Tsunami
Posts: 6311
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: Stamford, CT
Status: Offline

Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:17 pm

JerseyWave wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:I was shocked when they announced the invite. I don't know if they're "not even as good as Tulane across the board" but certainly Rutgers was not any athletic gem. They do have tremendous upside, particularly being the state "flagship University" and in the largest media market in the US.
This. Rutgers wasn't added to the B1G because of the strength of its athletics or even because of the potential of the strength of its athletics - Rutgers was added in order to move the B1G into the New Jersey/New York market (exposure and the B1G Network) and it was 100% worth it.
You know, you have to question this. Does it still count as exposure if no one's watching? I can't believe there's very many TV sets in NJ/NY market tuned in to the beat down Rutgers is currently taking from Ohio State. Its 51-0, end of 3. At some point, just like everyone likes to point out about Tulane, don't you have to be somewhat relevant in order for your "market size" to matter? Houston's the 4th largest city in the country, but can you say Houston Baptist brings you the Houston Market for recruiting/exposure? Not really sure Rutgers is relevant enough in that market to give them the credit you do. I'd bet half or more of the people in NJ don't consider Rutgers their "flagship" university.
You are correct. Rutgers is only relevant in the NY/NJ market to alums and students of the University. They get very little coverage from the media too. All the sports talk shows are about Pro Sports. Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, NBA and NHL. There's never any Rutgers talk in New York, New Jersey. Notre Dame gets better coverage in this market than Rutgers.
But if Rutgers were to win, and win regularly that would change. I think, because they have a MUCH bigger alumni base in this market than Tulane in any market, they're a sleeping giant more so than Tulane. It's just that Rutgers is not newsworthy when there's so much more in this market that is newsworthy.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
winwave
Wild Pelican
Posts: 12480
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:34 am
Status: Offline

Sat Oct 01, 2016 4:19 pm

They are not more of a sleeping giant than Tulane as they don't have the recruiting area advantage we have.
High School Stadium Gets You High School Football
User avatar
RobertM320
Tsunami
Posts: 6524
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:18 pm
Location: Destrehan, LA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:04 pm

winwave wrote:They are not more of a sleeping giant than Tulane as they don't have the recruiting area advantage we have.
A better description would be, they maybe more of a sleeping giant, but due to lack of recruiting area they're less likely to wake up.
"ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE! HANG EM AND BANG EM! HANG EM AND BANG EM!"-- Todd Graffagnini
DfromCT
Tsunami
Posts: 6311
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: Stamford, CT
Status: Offline

Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:35 pm

winwave wrote:They are not more of a sleeping giant than Tulane as they don't have the recruiting area advantage we have.
Don't be too sure. There's not that big of a difference between D1 football players from Louisiana vs. New Jersey. Not nearly as much as from Louisiana and the # 2 3 or 4 states in the country, Florida, California and Georgia. Per capita is one thing; numbers are numbers.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
winwave
Wild Pelican
Posts: 12480
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:34 am
Status: Offline

Sat Oct 01, 2016 6:49 pm

DfromCT wrote:
winwave wrote:They are not more of a sleeping giant than Tulane as they don't have the recruiting area advantage we have.
Don't be too sure. There's not that big of a difference between D1 football players from Louisiana vs. New Jersey. Not nearly as much as from Louisiana and the # 2 3 or 4 states in the country, Florida, California and Georgia. Per capita is one thing; numbers are numbers.
It's more than just La. Texas next door and when we have tried Florida we have done well.
High School Stadium Gets You High School Football
greenie78
High Tide
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:35 am
Status: Offline

Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:15 pm

No expansion would be good for Tulane. Our shot was outside at best. The Big 12 is a falling conference. The quality of play has diminished the last few years. It's not that much better than the AAC right now.
User avatar
RobertM320
Tsunami
Posts: 6524
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:18 pm
Location: Destrehan, LA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:54 pm

greenie78 wrote:No expansion would be good for Tulane. Our shot was outside at best. The Big 12 is a falling conference. The quality of play has diminished the last few years. It's not that much better than the AAC right now.
EDITED

Truer now than ever... latest massey conference ratings (58 rankings)

Big 12 is almost closer to us than they are to the rest of the P5. AAC is light years ahead of any other G5, and closer to B12 than the next G5. We're -8.48 behind the B12, but +23.01 ahead of the MWC. I'm assuming at some point these rankings will become factors in future TV deals. The downside is, preconceived conference bias will rear its ugly head as we head into conference play. Since the B12 will be playing each other, they can't drop much lower, and AAC cant move much higher.

SEC 37.29
ACC 42.96
PAC12 43.36
B1G 48.87
B12 54.40

AAC 62.88

FBSI 77.38 (FBS Independents)

MWC 85.89
SBC 86.39
MAC 86.59
CUSA 99.98

http://masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
"ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE! HANG EM AND BANG EM! HANG EM AND BANG EM!"-- Todd Graffagnini
lurker123
Swell
Posts: 1300
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:01 pm
Status: Offline

Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:10 pm

RobertM320 wrote:
greenie78 wrote:No expansion would be good for Tulane. Our shot was outside at best. The Big 12 is a falling conference. The quality of play has diminished the last few years. It's not that much better than the AAC right now.
EDITED

Truer now than ever... latest massey conference ratings (58 rankings)

Big 12 is almost closer to us than they are to the rest of the P5. AAC is light years ahead of any other G5, and closer to B12 than the next G5. We're -8.48 behind the B12, but +23.01 ahead of the MWC. I'm assuming at some point these rankings will become factors in future TV deals. The downside is, preconceived conference bias will rear its ugly head as we head into conference play. Since the B12 will be playing each other, they can't drop much lower, and AAC cant move much higher.

SEC 37.29
ACC 42.96
PAC12 43.36
B1G 48.87
B12 54.40

AAC 62.88

FBSI 77.38 (FBS Independents)

MWC 85.89
SBC 86.39
MAC 86.59
CUSA 99.98

http://masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
The bottom six of the MWC are not ballast this season. They are like an anchor that has dropped through the bottom of the wooden hulled conference boat. With or without Big XII expansion, that conference could perhaps feed several teams if needed to AAC. Obviously MWC will be trying to do the same thing but unless AAC loses four teams I can't see any AAC teams running there to be conference mates with USU and SJSU and UH. Remember the Texas schools and Tulsa tried that once already.
mbawavefan12
Tsunami
Posts: 5210
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:17 pm
Status: Offline

Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:45 pm

RobertM320 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:I was shocked when they announced the invite. I don't know if they're "not even as good as Tulane across the board" but certainly Rutgers was not any athletic gem. They do have tremendous upside, particularly being the state "flagship University" and in the largest media market in the US.
This. Rutgers wasn't added to the B1G because of the strength of its athletics or even because of the potential of the strength of its athletics - Rutgers was added in order to move the B1G into the New Jersey/New York market (exposure and the B1G Network) and it was 100% worth it.
You know, you have to question this. Does it still count as exposure if no one's watching? I can't believe there's very many TV sets in NJ/NY market tuned in to the beat down Rutgers is currently taking from Ohio State. Its 51-0, end of 3. At some point, just like everyone likes to point out about Tulane, don't you have to be somewhat relevant in order for your "market size" to matter? Houston's the 4th largest city in the country, but can you say Houston Baptist brings you the Houston Market for recruiting/exposure? Not really sure Rutgers is relevant enough in that market to give them the credit you do. I'd bet half or more of the people in NJ don't consider Rutgers their "flagship" university.
In this situation it doesn't matter who is watching rutgers, the. Alue of adding RU is selling the per customer charge for the B10 network. Some have no clue they r paying it but there are also plenty of b10 grads in the nyc market who have no issue adding the b10 network to their package (giggity).
golfnut69
Green Wave
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:38 am
Status: Offline

Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:00 am

I am going to get off of the media train....you also add schools, so your conference has game day exposure in that city, each year you will send 5 or 6 teams in for a visit..kids get to see OU, UT up close not on the TV...there is nothing better than seeing it in person if you are being recruited
Be a Hero Today.... Adopt a Shelter Pet... The Beatles once sang "Can't Buy Me Love"... I disagree, unconditional Love can be bought, for the nominal adoption fee at your local Pet Shelter !
HoustonWave
Swell
Posts: 1619
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:27 pm
Status: Offline

Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:49 pm

RobertM320 wrote:
greenie78 wrote:No expansion would be good for Tulane. Our shot was outside at best. The Big 12 is a falling conference. The quality of play has diminished the last few years. It's not that much better than the AAC right now.
EDITED

Truer now than ever... latest massey conference ratings (58 rankings)

Big 12 is almost closer to us than they are to the rest of the P5. AAC is light years ahead of any other G5, and closer to B12 than the next G5. We're -8.48 behind the B12, but +23.01 ahead of the MWC. I'm assuming at some point these rankings will become factors in future TV deals. The downside is, preconceived conference bias will rear its ugly head as we head into conference play. Since the B12 will be playing each other, they can't drop much lower, and AAC cant move much higher.

SEC 37.29
ACC 42.96
PAC12 43.36
B1G 48.87
B12 54.40

AAC 62.88

FBSI 77.38 (FBS Independents)

MWC 85.89
SBC 86.39
MAC 86.59
CUSA 99.98

http://masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
CUSA sure has crashed and burned. Thank heavens we got off that sinking ship when we did.
Tulane is the University of Louisiana
jonathanjoseph
Green Wave
Posts: 9299
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:54 pm
Status: Offline

Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:25 pm

HoustonWave wrote: CUSA sure has crashed and burned. Thank heavens we got off that sinking ship when we did.
Ya don't say. I wonder who was steering the ship for CUSA a few short year ago....
"The Presidents and Chancellors of Conference USA universities are pleased to include Old Dominion in our future plans," said Dr. Scott Cowen, Tulane University president and Chair of Conference USA's Board of Directors. "They possess all the attributes of a tremendous University and will make a great addition to our Conference. With the six new members in place, we are stable and poised for great things in the future."
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2 ... n/2257895
Conference USA Board of Directors Chair and Tulane president Scott Cowen said, "We are very pleased to be moving forward with the Mountain West Conference on this high potential, unique partnership. Together, we will better position our conferences and member universities for the future with its appeal and its reach across the United States."
http://www.mwcboard.com/index.php?/topi ... s-release/
Aberzombie1892
Swell
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 8:16 pm
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline

Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:46 am

HoustonWave wrote:CUSA sure has crashed and burned. Thank heavens we got off that sinking ship when we did.
Of course. All of the good teams left. It's the same principle that applies if OU/UT leave the Big 12 and Tulane is extended an offer, Tulane should jump for it even if most of the remaining Big 12 teams get absorbed into other Power conferences (literally the exact same thing that happened with the Big East and CUSA). If Tulane doesn't, it will end up staying in a dead conference (a la Rice).

Also, I'm all for blaming Cowen for certain things, but it's not his fault that CUSA imploded - a bunch of CUSA teams thought they were joining a Power conference but all of the Power teams left once the access designation was removed from that conference. However, that being said, the new/old conference was able to cherry pick the best programs from the CUSA and Independents to create a league that was much better than what the last 4 or so years of CUSA were.
User avatar
RobertM320
Tsunami
Posts: 6524
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:18 pm
Location: Destrehan, LA
Contact:
Status: Offline

Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:48 am

B10 49.07
B12 54.08
AAC 62.80
MWC 85.95

This is the final after all 93 rankings are in.
"ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE! HANG EM AND BANG EM! HANG EM AND BANG EM!"-- Todd Graffagnini
User avatar
wave97
Swell
Posts: 1307
Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:08 pm
Status: Offline

Tue Oct 04, 2016 11:04 am

DfromCT wrote:
JerseyWave wrote:
RobertM320 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
DfromCT wrote:I was shocked when they announced the invite. I don't know if they're "not even as good as Tulane across the board" but certainly Rutgers was not any athletic gem. They do have tremendous upside, particularly being the state "flagship University" and in the largest media market in the US.
This. Rutgers wasn't added to the B1G because of the strength of its athletics or even because of the potential of the strength of its athletics - Rutgers was added in order to move the B1G into the New Jersey/New York market (exposure and the B1G Network) and it was 100% worth it.
You know, you have to question this. Does it still count as exposure if no one's watching? I can't believe there's very many TV sets in NJ/NY market tuned in to the beat down Rutgers is currently taking from Ohio State. Its 51-0, end of 3. At some point, just like everyone likes to point out about Tulane, don't you have to be somewhat relevant in order for your "market size" to matter? Houston's the 4th largest city in the country, but can you say Houston Baptist brings you the Houston Market for recruiting/exposure? Not really sure Rutgers is relevant enough in that market to give them the credit you do. I'd bet half or more of the people in NJ don't consider Rutgers their "flagship" university.
You are correct. Rutgers is only relevant in the NY/NJ market to alums and students of the University. They get very little coverage from the media too. All the sports talk shows are about Pro Sports. Yankees, Mets, Giants, Jets, NBA and NHL. There's never any Rutgers talk in New York, New Jersey. Notre Dame gets better coverage in this market than Rutgers.
But if Rutgers were to win, and win regularly that would change. I think, because they have a MUCH bigger alumni base in this market than Tulane in any market, they're a sleeping giant more so than Tulane. It's just that Rutgers is not newsworthy when there's so much more in this market that is newsworthy.
College football will never be newsworthy in the major markets of the Northeast. Why do you think Penn State dominated recruiting (of non-quarterbacks), for decades in NY, Nj, PA, MD & Northern VA? The area between Pittsburgh & Philadelphia in terms of entertainment options may as well be Mississippi. For prospective recruits, the sun would rise and set before the altar of Joe Paterno and Penn State Football.
Aberzombie1892
Swell
Posts: 1727
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 8:16 pm
Location: Houston, TX
Status: Offline

Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:10 pm

Rutgers was added because of everything in the below article. Tulane will never be able to provide that - New Orleans will likely never be a top 10 tv market, New Orleans isn't home to a ton of successful alumni from any conference (at least in part because it's such a small metroplex), etc. Basically, Rutgers would be a more valuable addition to any conference with a TV Network than Tulane and there is not a scenario in the era of college conference TV deals where that wouldn't be true.

http://adage.com/article/media/east-you ... rk/300748/
golfnut69
Green Wave
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:38 am
Status: Offline

Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:12 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:Rutgers was added because of everything in the below article. Tulane will never be able to provide that - New Orleans will likely never be a top 10 tv market, New Orleans isn't home to a ton of successful alumni from any conference (at least in part because it's such a small metroplex), etc. Basically, Rutgers would be a more valuable addition to any conference with a TV Network than Tulane and there is not a scenario in the era of college conference TV deals where that wouldn't be true.

http://adage.com/article/media/east-you ... rk/300748/
But it is a "Destination City"...that has to mean something !!!!
Be a Hero Today.... Adopt a Shelter Pet... The Beatles once sang "Can't Buy Me Love"... I disagree, unconditional Love can be bought, for the nominal adoption fee at your local Pet Shelter !
DfromCT
Tsunami
Posts: 6311
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:50 pm
Location: Stamford, CT
Status: Offline

Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:38 pm

golfnut69 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:Rutgers was added because of everything in the below article. Tulane will never be able to provide that - New Orleans will likely never be a top 10 tv market, New Orleans isn't home to a ton of successful alumni from any conference (at least in part because it's such a small metroplex), etc. Basically, Rutgers would be a more valuable addition to any conference with a TV Network than Tulane and there is not a scenario in the era of college conference TV deals where that wouldn't be true.

http://adage.com/article/media/east-you ... rk/300748/
But it is a "Destination City"...that has to mean something !!!!
New York City falls into that category. To get to Rutgers, you typically fly into Newark Airport, which is closer to Downtown Manhattan than JFK.
" For every alum, no matter where they are...I want a football coach that's going to make Saturday something you anticipate and look forward to." --Troy Dannen

Thank you all for your support as my son Zach continues to beat leukemia
golfnut69
Green Wave
Posts: 8005
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:38 am
Status: Offline

Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:54 pm

DfromCT wrote:
golfnut69 wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:Rutgers was added because of everything in the below article. Tulane will never be able to provide that - New Orleans will likely never be a top 10 tv market, New Orleans isn't home to a ton of successful alumni from any conference (at least in part because it's such a small metroplex), etc. Basically, Rutgers would be a more valuable addition to any conference with a TV Network than Tulane and there is not a scenario in the era of college conference TV deals where that wouldn't be true.

http://adage.com/article/media/east-you ... rk/300748/
But it is a "Destination City"...that has to mean something !!!!
New York City falls into that category. To get to Rutgers, you typically fly into Newark Airport, which is closer to Downtown Manhattan than JFK.
hmmmm...Newark or Kennah ?!?!?!?!
Be a Hero Today.... Adopt a Shelter Pet... The Beatles once sang "Can't Buy Me Love"... I disagree, unconditional Love can be bought, for the nominal adoption fee at your local Pet Shelter !
greenie78
High Tide
Posts: 459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:35 am
Status: Offline

Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:30 am

I say forget about the Big 12 and see if we can snag one of the remaining two spots in the ACC eventually in a couple of years. We could be a great fit for that conference.
anEngineer
High Tide
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:26 pm
Status: Offline

Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:57 am

greenie78 wrote:I say forget about the Big 12 and see if we can snag one of the remaining two spots in the ACC eventually in a couple of years. We could be a great fit for that conference.
There is no doubt that the ACC would be the absolute best fit for Tulane but I don't imagine them expanding unless they lose someone. I know the SEC has always valued Florida State and Clemson but I don't see that happening. FL St. and Clemson in the SEC East would allow Missouri to move to the West where they belong.
Post Reply