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Big XII Expansion

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:02 am
by golfnut69
sadly and or correctly, Tulane is not mentioned

http://cfn.scout.com/2/1434222.html

Re: CFN's take on the Big 12 and expansion

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:35 am
by OUG
sadly and or correctly, Tulane is not mentioned

http://cfn.scout.com/2/1434222.html
That's just speculation based on conventional wisdom.

We KNOW that we were considered by the people that mattered (along with BYU and Cincy) last time. We don't know that the UCF and USF have ever been considered by the people that matter.

Re: CFN's take on the Big 12 and expansion

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:57 am
by mbawavefan12
The B12 currently has the highest per team TV payout because they have less mouths to feed. For TU, the best scenario is for the NCAA to allow a championship game with only ten schools, the current rule is just flat out dumb. We can only hope that the lack of championship game doesn't hurt them this year as far as the playoffs, as they will immediately take one or two AAC schools (and TU will certainly not be one of them). They have a nice little nine game conference schedule and are making money, the only reason to expand is the championship game as no G5 currently would add money to the per team revenues.

Re: CFN's take on the Big 12 and expansion

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:39 pm
by CN Hide & Seek Team
My understanding was that we were one of five under consideration for Big12 expansion a couple of years ago. Cincy, WVU, UL, one other i cannot remember + us. Texas and OU are in the drivers seat, and looked at us because of academics(read: AAU member) + geography.
UL went to the ACC, and WVU got an offer. We obviously needed to upgrade facilities and get serious about recruiting.
Do not ignore the glaring fact that Orangebloods broke the story on us headed to the Big East somehow.

Re: CFN's take on the Big 12 and expansion

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:42 pm
by JDTulane
IMO for sure the next Big12 call up is UCF. I hope we'd get the other spot over maybe Houston/SMU.

Re: CFN's take on the Big 12 and expansion

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:49 pm
by jonathanjoseph
IMO for sure the next Big12 call up is UCF. I hope we'd get the other spot over maybe Houston/SMU.
There is very little chance that Houston or SMU would be in line for an invite. Those TV markets are already accounted for by the Big 12. It's pretty much us, Cincy or UCF.

Here we are with the discussion starting again and we have 1 less BCS-ready facility than we did the last time we had this conversation.

Re: CFN's take on the Big 12 and expansion

Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 1:50 pm
by Fred Dowler
"Being considered"=a moral victory.

Heck, I remember talk about TU supposedly "being considered" for an ACC invitation right after the winding up of the athletics review episode and yet here a decade later with a whole bunch of programs having joined the ACC and TU not one of them.

I can't see that anything, in the end, would trump, in the minds of the decision-makers, whatever your program that's "being considered" would be bringing to the table in terms of additional revenue. Because if you can't bring it it can't be a win-win situation for everyone if they bring you on board and that's what it all boils down to and why the Big 12 has been happy to stay 10 teams.

Re: CFN's take on the Big 12 and expansion

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:19 am
by JDTulane
IMO for sure the next Big12 call up is UCF. I hope we'd get the other spot over maybe Houston/SMU.
There is very little chance that Houston or SMU would be in line for an invite. Those TV markets are already accounted for by the Big 12. It's pretty much us, Cincy or UCF.

Here we are with the discussion starting again and we have 1 less BCS-ready facility than we did the last time we had this conversation.


We'll just have to agree to disagree here. That won't change.

IMO we have the Superdome when we need it and Yulman when we need it. You and I won't ever see eye to eye on that... and thats ok.

Re: CFN's take on the Big 12 and expansion

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:52 pm
by #41
Cincinnati makes the most sense if they expand -- it's a top-30 media market and it helps connect the conference geographically to WVU.

But, fortunately for us, conference expansion frequently doesn't take the route that makes the most sense.

Re: CFN's take on the Big 12 and expansion

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2014 2:09 pm
by jonathanjoseph
Cincinnati makes the most sense if they expand -- it's a top-30 media market and it helps connect the conference geographically to WVU.

But, fortunately for us, conference expansion frequently doesn't take the route that makes the most sense.
If they take one, they'll take two. So that leaves us and UCF as the logical candidates.

Did we prepare or position ourselves for this possibility or did we shoot for a boutique program that can generate enough revenue to eliminate the university subsidy?

Big 12 Expansion

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:05 pm
by tpstulane
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... tml?pg=all
Everyone else is expanding, why not the Big 12?

However, not a single media outlet seems to understand exactly why the Big 12 isn’t interested in expansion. Most simply state that the more the conference grows, the more it would have to share its TV revenue, and they imply that’s all there is to it.

Why, then, did the Big Ten, SEC, Pac-12 and ACC expand while the Big 12 stood pat?

It all boils down to the TV revenue model. Conferences can make money televising their product in three distinct categories. First, they sign lucrative contracts with ESPN, ABC, CBS, and Fox to air their top matchups. These are called Tier 1 games. For example, when LSU and Wisconsin play Saturday, Aug. 30, the game will be on prime time on ESPN.

Next, conferences offer rights to Tier 2 games, which are typically shown on lesser but still “national” sports networks. They get significantly lower ratings than the tier 1 games and are often on channels that deliver limited exposure like Fox Sports 1.

Finally, what’s left is considered Tier 3 programming. Conferences typically retain the rights to these games for themselves. Here’s where it gets confusing and where a general lack of understanding exists in the sports landscape.

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:03 am
by jonathanjoseph
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... tml?pg=all
Everyone else is expanding, why not the Big 12?

However, not a single media outlet seems to understand exactly why the Big 12 isn’t interested in expansion. Most simply state that the more the conference grows, the more it would have to share its TV revenue, and they imply that’s all there is to it.

Why, then, did the Big Ten, SEC, Pac-12 and ACC expand while the Big 12 stood pat?

It all boils down to the TV revenue model. Conferences can make money televising their product in three distinct categories. First, they sign lucrative contracts with ESPN, ABC, CBS, and Fox to air their top matchups. These are called Tier 1 games. For example, when LSU and Wisconsin play Saturday, Aug. 30, the game will be on prime time on ESPN.

Next, conferences offer rights to Tier 2 games, which are typically shown on lesser but still “national” sports networks. They get significantly lower ratings than the tier 1 games and are often on channels that deliver limited exposure like Fox Sports 1.

Finally, what’s left is considered Tier 3 programming. Conferences typically retain the rights to these games for themselves. Here’s where it gets confusing and where a general lack of understanding exists in the sports landscape.
Um, what? LSU vs Wisconsin isn't a conference game.

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:03 am
by tpstulane
Bottom line, let's finally end any talk of Tulane going to the Big 12.
The best chance is that the AAC beats all the P5 schools and forces a P6 to be included.

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:42 am
by ccap05
Bottom line, let's finally end any talk of Tulane going to the Big 12.
The best chance is that the AAC beats all the P5 schools and forces a P6 to be included.
I disagree. The article is interesting but things have a way of changing in ways we do not expect. The article paints a great reason why the Big XII will not expand in the very near future, but if the rest of the Bix XII teams end up suffering too much (in comparison to other P5 conferences) eventually Texas will be forced to relent or the other teams will need to look for a new home, one which could possibly include a team on the normal geographic outskirts of the existing conference with good academics, a football team that has done well in the AAC for the past 4 or 5 years, an administration which has just overseen the expansion of the on campus stadium to 40K and a big upgrade to the on campus BB arena, and which is located in a football/basketball rich area which is attractive to both fan traveling supporters and producers of tv athletics. In this rosy hypo I am not suggesting that Tulsa is a natural candidate.

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:04 am
by tpstulane
Bottom line, let's finally end any talk of Tulane going to the Big 12.
The best chance is that the AAC beats all the P5 schools and forces a P6 to be included.
I disagree. The article is interesting but things have a way of changing in ways we do not expect. The article paints a great reason why the Big XII will not expand in the very near future, but if the rest of the Bix XII teams end up suffering too much (in comparison to other P5 conferences) eventually Texas will be forced to relent or the other teams will need to look for a new home, one which could possibly include a team on the normal geographic outskirts of the existing conference with good academics, a football team that has done well in the AAC for the past 4 or 5 years, an administration which has just overseen the expansion of the on campus stadium to 40K and a big upgrade to the on campus BB arena, and which is located in a football/basketball rich area which is attractive to both fan traveling supporters and producers of tv athletics. In this rosy hypo I am not suggesting that Tulsa is a natural candidate.
The only hope I see is one of the other P5 conf raids the Big 12 to get a Texas TV market. Then the Big 12 will come looking. But it's a real longshot.

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:50 am
by DfromCT
Bottom line, let's finally end any talk of Tulane going to the Big 12.
The best chance is that the AAC beats all the P5 schools and forces a P6 to be included.
I disagree. The article is interesting but things have a way of changing in ways we do not expect. The article paints a great reason why the Big XII will not expand in the very near future, but if the rest of the Bix XII teams end up suffering too much (in comparison to other P5 conferences) eventually Texas will be forced to relent or the other teams will need to look for a new home, one which could possibly include a team on the normal geographic outskirts of the existing conference with good academics, a football team that has done well in the AAC for the past 4 or 5 years, an administration which has just overseen the expansion of the on campus stadium to 40K and a big upgrade to the on campus BB arena, and which is located in a football/basketball rich area which is attractive to both fan traveling supporters and producers of tv athletics. In this rosy hypo I am not suggesting that Tulsa is a natural candidate.

Every school in the AAC thinks they have a better shot at a P5 invite than Tulane. Think about that. As much as we like to think that AAU status, Academic quality, and rich tradition (and not being a "directional" University) are important, most recognize Tulane as a small school that hasn't won much over the past 50 years, with a shrinking fan base.

I do think we have a better shot of Aresco making the AAC the 6th "Power" Conference than getting a bid. But at the same time, we need to change the perception throughout the conference and throughout the country.

ROLL WAVE!

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:53 am
by jonathanjoseph
They will eventually be forced to put together a TV network and being able to add the NOLA and Cincy markets will be very attractive when negotiating that deal.

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:49 pm
by DfromCT
The other thing to keep in mind is the Big 12 made it clear months ago they were happy with the status quo. This is not new information! When they told BYU to hit the bricks, they made it clear that having 10 schools splitting the pie was preferable to being able to have a conference championship game but splitting the $$ 12 ways. Right now Tulane would be a Big 12 bottom feeder. We would take more than we'd contribute. Grow the fan base (and this isn't a discussion about Yulman Capacity PLEASE DON"T GO THERE) and sell out Yulman for a few years, force expansion and WIN. 52nd TV Market and fertile recruiting ground are NOT going to get us in. Go bowling 4 or 5 years in a row and take some P5 scalps (GaTech would be a good one!) along the way. Then, and only then, will Tulane have a chance.

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:00 pm
by jonathanjoseph
The other thing to keep in mind is the Big 12 made it clear months ago they were happy with the status quo. This is not new information! When they told BYU to hit the bricks, they made it clear that having 10 schools splitting the pie was preferable to being able to have a conference championship game but splitting the $$ 12 ways. Right now Tulane would be a Big 12 bottom feeder. We would take more than we'd contribute. Grow the fan base (and this isn't a discussion about Yulman Capacity PLEASE DON"T GO THERE) and sell out Yulman for a few years, force expansion and WIN. 52nd TV Market and fertile recruiting ground are NOT going to get us in. Go bowling 4 or 5 years in a row and take some P5 scalps (GaTech would be a good one!) along the way. Then, and only then, will Tulane have a chance.
D, The math changes with the TV network. You may not be impressed by the 52nd TV market, but the alternative is zero. When they are negotiating the media rights, either they will be able to add the 52nd size TV market (which is #1 for college football) or nothing. Do you want a bigger audience for your product or no? That's the math. Even if Tulane athletics sucks, we'd bring them a TV market and combined with ability to hold a conference championship game (and very possibly the location of that championship game), which means we would bring plenty to the table.

The fan base has apparently TRIPLED since the last time you said we had no chance until we grow the fan base. Bowling 4 or 5 years in a row? If we go bowling this year we're going to be top 25 vote getting to start next season, the fan base will grow yet again and Tulane will be a prime candidate soon.

Do we have the facilities we need?

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:55 pm
by ccap05
Bottom line, let's finally end any talk of Tulane going to the Big 12.
The best chance is that the AAC beats all the P5 schools and forces a P6 to be included.
I disagree. The article is interesting but things have a way of changing in ways we do not expect. The article paints a great reason why the Big XII will not expand in the very near future, but if the rest of the Bix XII teams end up suffering too much (in comparison to other P5 conferences) eventually Texas will be forced to relent or the other teams will need to look for a new home, one which could possibly include a team on the normal geographic outskirts of the existing conference with good academics, a football team that has done well in the AAC for the past 4 or 5 years, an administration which has just overseen the expansion of the on campus stadium to 40K and a big upgrade to the on campus BB arena, and which is located in a football/basketball rich area which is attractive to both fan traveling supporters and producers of tv athletics. In this rosy hypo I am not suggesting that Tulsa is a natural candidate.

Every school in the AAC thinks they have a better shot at a P5 invite than Tulane. Think about that. As much as we like to think that AAU status, Academic quality, and rich tradition (and not being a "directional" University) are important, most recognize Tulane as a small school that hasn't won much over the past 50 years, with a shrinking fan base.

I agree with everything you wrote (except I would probably say that Tulsa does not delude itself about an P5 membership). I would also hazard to guess that if there was a generic P5 offer going out Tulane would probably be in the middle to bottom middle of the AAC pack right now (debatable exactly where but who cares). However, Tulane is in a position to make some big changes very quickly which are simply not going to happen at other schools. 1) Actual Football attendance very well may increase dramatically for the foreseeable future with bigger name opponents, a much improved team, a decent record and an on campus stadium. 2) A few years of increased attendance may be a catalyst for Stadium expansion. Hopefully the powers that be are buying out the Nimbys so that this can be maximised. 3) Improved status of the football program and increased ticket sales should allow Tulane to turn its focus to improving/rebuilding Devlin. 4) RD will not be here that much longer and hopefully his replacement will be an upgrade. 5) Conroy will either win in the next two seasons or be gone. Even if RD is still around there is no way Tulane will keep this guy unless he finally produces. Either way is a win for Tulane- if Conroy manages to turn things around good for him and us. If Conroy does not turn things around, the excitement around the FB program makes it the perfect time to pressure Tulane to put out the bucks to hire a top notch coach. 6) The Sand Vollyball team is poised for greatness.

I do think we have a better shot of Aresco making the AAC the 6th "Power" Conference than getting a bid. But at the same time, we need to change the perception throughout the conference and throughout the country.

ROLL WAVE!

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:50 am
by JDTulane
I'm just hoping they're choosing to bide their time until Tulane is worth inviting.

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:48 am
by jonathanjoseph
I'm just hoping they're choosing to bide their time until Tulane is worth inviting.
That's sort of the issue. Even if Tulane is "making the investment", that's still 10+ years out.

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:03 am
by lurker123
The one unstated advantage that Tulane has over every other potential candidate for Big 12 is its ability to put dent in LSU recruiting if it is "elevated" in status. OK and UT want to win national championships in football. Helping someone/anyone diminish a nearby competitor that has a lock on top recruits from a top recruiting state like Louisiana might appeal to OU/UT as a tie breaker.

Obviously all the other things (on field success, facilities, fan support, TV ratings, etc.) must come first but UC or UConn or BYU won't help OU or UT improve the odds to win the BCS championship.

All moot though. Nothing will happen until 2020 or so unless litigation/govt regulation breaks up the BCS cartel before then and that's even a longer shot then Tulane joining the Big 12.

I do agree with consensus here. Better route (but still very hard) is to build the AAC into P6.

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:30 pm
by tpstulane
The one unstated advantage that Tulane has over every other potential candidate for Big 12 is its ability to put dent in LSU recruiting if it is "elevated" in status. OK and UT want to win national championships in football. Helping someone/anyone diminish a nearby competitor that has a lock on top recruits from a top recruiting state like Louisiana might appeal to OU/UT as a tie breaker.

Obviously all the other things (on field success, facilities, fan support, TV ratings, etc.) must come first but UC or UConn or BYU won't help OU or UT improve the odds to win the BCS championship.

All moot though. Nothing will happen until 2020 or so unless litigation/govt regulation breaks up the BCS cartel before then and that's even a longer shot then Tulane joining the Big 12.

I do agree with consensus here. Better route (but still very hard) is to build the AAC into P6.
Good points, Texas A&M is making noise in these parts with recruiting. (Speedy Noil) for one since they got the SEC invite....

Re: No future expansion planned for the Big 12

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:34 pm
by jonathanjoseph
The one unstated advantage that Tulane has over every other potential candidate for Big 12 is its ability to put dent in LSU recruiting if it is "elevated" in status. OK and UT want to win national championships in football. Helping someone/anyone diminish a nearby competitor that has a lock on top recruits from a top recruiting state like Louisiana might appeal to OU/UT as a tie breaker.

Obviously all the other things (on field success, facilities, fan support, TV ratings, etc.) must come first but UC or UConn or BYU won't help OU or UT improve the odds to win the BCS championship.

All moot though. Nothing will happen until 2020 or so unless litigation/govt regulation breaks up the BCS cartel before then and that's even a longer shot then Tulane joining the Big 12.

I do agree with consensus here. Better route (but still very hard) is to build the AAC into P6.
Right. We have the intangibles (recruiting ground). We have the geography (SEC country). The on field success appears to be coming, if not this year then next year. It sure seems like fan support is changing almost overnight.

Uh, do we have the facilities? That's a $100M problem we've got to solve.