Big XII Expansion

[lurker123]

Why in reading this did I think if Dear Great Leader Kim was in charge of Big 12 expansion someone here would have typed in, "This is all Yulman Stadium's fault" ??

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/korea/w ... 60227.html

[HoustonWave]

I was just reading some of his back tweets today. His twitter feed is protected, you have to follow then wait for approval.

The gist of his tweets are: BYU and Cincy are a done deal, and have been for some time. Going to 14 is looking most likely. Houston trying to call in all favors to get picked instead of BYU. If they go to 14, the remaining 5 are UH, UConn, Tulane, AirForce and USF. Presidents are high on Tulane, AF and UConn.

So my opinion is, if they do in fact go to 14: BYU and Cincy are 11 and 12. Houston would be #13 because you can't ignore what they've done on the field in recent years. That leaves one spot for the remaining four schools. Since the presidents are high on UConn, Tulane and AF, I have to figure USF is out. Their academics wont match up to the other three.

Tulane or Air Force or UConn?


And there's these:

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 6h6 hours ago
ESPN and Fox looking to extend B12 deal by 3-4 years, add pro rata, CCG $, and an extra 15% to boot

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 6h6 hours ago
In doing so GOR must be extended and ESPN gets first crack at all schools T3 rights when they expire

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 6h6 hours ago
ESPN exploring an over the top network for B12 in the future

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 6h6 hours ago
Presidents want to go to 14. Presidents very high on Tulane,Air Force, and Uconn

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 6h6 hours ago
Networks want majority eastern expansion.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 6h6 hours ago
Tulane is still very much in the mix

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 6h6 hours ago
UC and BYU are 11 and 12 and still have 5 schools in the mix for 13 and 14

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 6h6 hours ago
Those 5 are USF, Uconn, Houston, Tulane, and Air Force

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 6h6 hours ago
UC and BYU have both been under a non-disclosure agreement with B12 for quite some time now and have had reps at several meetings

If the last two slots are down to USF, UConn, UH, Air Force and us, I really am starting to like our chances. Of those five, we arguably have the fewest negatives. We and Air Force offer both strong academics and good geography. I can't believe that USF would make it--weak academics and poor geography. UH has all kind of emotional pluses and minuses--definitely the remaining candidate with the highest beta factor--and its real hard to find 8 votes for UH. UConn has the geography problem, but I don't doubt that ESPN is probably pimping them real hard. Depending on the UH either/or, it could well come down to Air Force and us--our advantage there would be N.O. over Colo. Springs, better recruiting turf, push back on the SEC, and non-football sports, especially baseball, since the Big XII is a strong baseball conference.

[HoustonWave]

What has happened to CSU? Are they officially out of the running? Or are they just slowly fading off the radar screen? Maybe getting nuked, by CU, on national TV finished them.

[RobertM320]

There was an SMU reporter sitting around where the presentations were being done and tweeting who he saw. I never did see anything confirming a CSU presentation. There was some mention that not all schools were going to actually get to present, so I don't know.

[HoustonWave]

There was an SMU reporter sitting around where the presentations were being done and tweeting who he saw. I never did see anything confirming a CSU presentation. There was some mention that not all schools were going to actually get to present, so I don't know.

If Air Force gets in over CSU, what a massive groin shot for CSU--after spending $240MM for their new 36,000 seat stadium (42,000 capacity). It would also suggest that academics are moving up the list of what's important.

[Aberzombie1892]

I was just reading some of his back tweets today. His twitter feed is protected, you have to follow then wait for approval.

The gist of his tweets are: BYU and Cincy are a done deal, and have been for some time. Going to 14 is looking most likely. Houston trying to call in all favors to get picked instead of BYU. If they go to 14, the remaining 5 are UH, UConn, Tulane, AirForce and USF. Presidents are high on Tulane, AF and UConn.

So my opinion is, if they do in fact go to 14: BYU and Cincy are 11 and 12. Houston would be #13 because you can't ignore what they've done on the field in recent years. That leaves one spot for the remaining four schools. Since the presidents are high on UConn, Tulane and AF, I have to figure USF is out. Their academics wont match up to the other three.

Tulane or Air Force or UConn?

That information is amazing - thank you. I'm actually starting to get my hopes up some.

[JDTulane]

USF wouldn't go without UCF.

Our best case scenario is we get the 14th spot with Houston. They add Houston as a football credibility and us to bolster academics and bring in Louisiana/New Orleans. UH helps fans (who will look at w's and l's) stomach our inclusion.

[golfnut69]

I am shocked AF has made it this far...They bring nothing to the table except "geography'...because of their academic restrictions in all sports they are a non factor on a national basis in any. I know in football they can be somewhat competitive but in everything else they are not on any radar screens, if you are in the AF and not on radar, you are in trouble....we will see in a few weeks

[RobertM320]

USF wouldn't go without UCF.

Our best case scenario is we get the 14th spot with Houston. They add Houston as a football credibility and us to bolster academics and bring in Louisiana/New Orleans. UH helps fans (who will look at w's and l's) stomach our inclusion.

I agree, JD. I can't possibly see them taking one Florida school. Although the schools are different and don't deserve to be lumped together, geography is an issue. I think it would be either both or none.

[tpstulane]

http://www.campusrush.com/aac-football- ... =cr_social

Look at the $3 million annual salary Houston gave Tom Herman last November or the facility improvements underway at Memphis or the new on-campus stadium Tulane opened in 2014. These are programs that want to move to the next level; status is more easily achieved by jumping to a conference that already has it than by idling as your conference grows its own. Would the Big 12 pick off its most talented programs, or would it favor better television markets and take a bottom-dweller like Tulane, which remains in the realignment conversation?

[HoustonWave]

USF wouldn't go without UCF.

Our best case scenario is we get the 14th spot with Houston. They add Houston as a football credibility and us to bolster academics and bring in Louisiana/New Orleans. UH helps fans (who will look at w's and l's) stomach our inclusion.

True. But Tulane's inclusion (and opening up a new fertile recruiting area) might help the non-Texas Big XII schools stomach the loss of recruiting territory if UH gets in. In a number of ways, UH and Tulane may mutually benefit each other in this beauty contest. Of course a Grand Compromise (between the UT led Texas faction and the OU led non-Texas faction) will probably be necessary to get UH and BYU in. Oddly, Tulane and Cincy (or UConn if WVU prefers) may be the easiest two to settle on. In the end, I bet they'll strike the compromise, and that may well be why they are now back to leaning toward a four team expansion.

[golfnut69]

The latest form the Dallas paper...I have used all of my views...so please give a recap

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college ... g-term?f=r

[jonathanjoseph]

USF wouldn't go without UCF.

Our best case scenario is we get the 14th spot with Houston. They add Houston as a football credibility and us to bolster academics and bring in Louisiana/New Orleans. UH helps fans (who will look at w's and l's) stomach our inclusion.

True. But Tulane's inclusion (and opening up a new fertile recruiting area) might help the non-Texas Big XII schools stomach the loss of recruiting territory if UH gets in. In a number of ways, UH and Tulane may mutually benefit each other in this beauty contest. Of course a Grand Compromise (between the UT led Texas faction and the OU led non-Texas faction) will probably be necessary to get UH and BYU in. Oddly, Tulane and Cincy (or UConn if WVU prefers) may be the easiest two to settle on. In the end, I bet they'll strike the compromise, and that may well be why they are now back to leaning toward a four team expansion.

I agree with much of this. I'm not sure I understand why USF/UCF have to be a package. Either/or gets them access to Florida as Orlando and Tampa are about as close as NOLA/Baton Rouge.

For all the whining about how Tulane was a joke on the field and so we'd never be considered, it sure looks like geography and academics are going to be equally important in the end. If Dickson had been anything other than a complete incompetent disaster we'd almost definitely be P5 bound.

[DfromCT]

The latest form the Dallas paper...I have used all of my views...so please give a recap

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/college ... g-term?f=r

Short version: The writer thinks the Big 12 will add two teams: Houston and Cincinnati. He predicts that the conference will make the move focused on the short term, because the long term viability of the conference is questionable. He states that TV deal expiration will likely be the driving force to break up the Big 12, with OU and UT leaving for greener pastures, and a major shuffling of the conferences in the middle of the next decade as media rights deals evolve.

My question is: if the Big 12 is going to focus on the short term, why not flip ESPN the bird and add four teams and enforce the existing contract? He, like many other writers, make no mention of academic concerns in the expansion discussion. The fact that we're still in the running means the Presidents to care about academics.

[RobertM320]

USF wouldn't go without UCF.

Our best case scenario is we get the 14th spot with Houston. They add Houston as a football credibility and us to bolster academics and bring in Louisiana/New Orleans. UH helps fans (who will look at w's and l's) stomach our inclusion.

True. But Tulane's inclusion (and opening up a new fertile recruiting area) might help the non-Texas Big XII schools stomach the loss of recruiting territory if UH gets in. In a number of ways, UH and Tulane may mutually benefit each other in this beauty contest. Of course a Grand Compromise (between the UT led Texas faction and the OU led non-Texas faction) will probably be necessary to get UH and BYU in. Oddly, Tulane and Cincy (or UConn if WVU prefers) may be the easiest two to settle on. In the end, I bet they'll strike the compromise, and that may well be why they are now back to leaning toward a four team expansion.

I agree with much of this. I'm not sure I understand why USF/UCF have to be a package. Either/or gets them access to Florida as Orlando and Tampa are about as close as NOLA/Baton Rouge.

For all the whining about how Tulane was a joke on the field and so we'd never be considered, it sure looks like geography and academics are going to be equally important in the end. If Dickson had been anything other than a complete incompetent disaster we'd almost definitely be P5 bound.

JJ, the Big 12 brass have never said USF/UCF need to be a package. But given all the complaints the conference members have about WVU being out on an island so far away, it wouldn't make sense to placate them with Cincinnati only to create a new island in Florida. And if WVU prefers UConn to Cincy, which is something I'm seeing from time to time, then adding a single Florida school would be even more of a travel nightmare.

[mbawavefan12]

If we were simply a crappy bowl team over the past 4 years we would be right with cincy/byu/uh as the clear front runners. The CJ and to a leaser degree EC may be as big as leaving the SEC.

[RobertM320]

LOL... the only thing I know for sure is that no one knows anything for sure...

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
I am told #BIGXII expansion is closer to NOT happening, OU is adamantly opposed to #Houston while as many as 7 members have said no to Cin

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
The #Houston issue comes down to #Texas controlling the conference and the friction UT has caused by rounding up votes AGAINST Cin #BIGXII

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
I am told #Oklahoma #OkSt and #WV are the only members to support Cin over Houston from the start #BIGXII

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
I am also told if #BIGXII expansion is to move forward #BYU has the support of 8 members and all media partners

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
I am also told Cincinnatti has never had enough votes to gain entry or the support of media partners, digital or broadcast #BIGXII

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
There was a small window where #OU had indicated a willingness to accept a scenario including #Houston but that has now changed #BIGXII

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
Source said "the interview process did not bring any clarity because everyone knew it was #BYU and #Houston ...except the state of Oklahoma"

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
My opinion after talking to several people close to #BIGXII ... #Cincinnati is respected but most members don't see the value they add

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
#Houston is the popular choice but #OU and #OKST could sway other members to not bring an expansion vote during the upcoming meetings

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
As it stands now, I'd put it 70-30 AGAINST expansion in the #BIGXII ...and if it does happen a significant change will have to occur.

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
It's also clear #Texas has been working hard to create a controlling majority of members and #OU 's reaction to that was to dig its heels in

mike chase ‏@adguy59 14h14 hours ago
@TheMontyShow BYU opportunity has always seemed too good to be true.

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 13h13 hours ago
Long conversation w/ a #BYU source who said there is a "plan b" should #BIGXII expansion "go south"

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 12h12 hours ago
Working to confirm a few things but #BYU has had discussions with other #BIGXII members about alternate plans should expansion fail

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 12h12 hours ago
My feeling from talking to people today is #BYU & several CURRENT members of the #BIGXII have been working on plans outside of the #BIGXII

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 12h12 hours ago
"Everyone knows the #BIGXII shld add #Houston and #BYU but can't get along well enough to slice the pie...everyone is watching and waiting"

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
OU & Texas are like two neighbor who hate each other and ruin the block for everyone.Egging each other houses ...calling the cops...so dumb!

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
Texas has leverage because their brand is so massive, OU while significant, is not able to write its own ticket the way Texas can.

[Aberzombie1892]

If we were simply a crappy bowl team over the past 4 years we would be right with cincy/byu/uh as the clear front runners. The CJ and to a leaser degree EC may be as big as leaving the SEC.

Yes and no. No coach wanted to come to Tulane when CJ was hired, so, odds are, whoever Tulane hired that year would have been a shot in dark. It's true that Tulane has hired Fritz now, but the Tulane job was much more attractive in 2014 than it was in 2011 given the commitment to athletics and the new conference affiliation.

[golfnut69]

regarding UCF and USF....this is a Florida political mandate..both or none...same thing that happened here in Texas when the Big 8 took 4 teams from the SWC....Baylor not Houston,( the original 4th member) was taken because of politics

[DfromCT]

LOL... the only thing I know for sure is that no one knows anything for sure...

I think this is the most accurate post in the soon to be 100 page thread! I'm not sure the Presidents of the Big 12 know what they want to do, so how can any "reporter" or fan figure it out?

[golfnut69]

LOL... the only thing I know for sure is that no one knows anything for sure...

I think this is the most accurate post in the soon to be 100 page thread! I'm not sure the Presidents of the Big 12 know what they want to do, so how can any "reporter" or fan figure it out?

This "reporter" has a degree from I.T.T. Tech and should never be questioned...just like the two dumb ass who uncovered "deep throat"

[jonathanjoseph]

USF wouldn't go without UCF.

Our best case scenario is we get the 14th spot with Houston. They add Houston as a football credibility and us to bolster academics and bring in Louisiana/New Orleans. UH helps fans (who will look at w's and l's) stomach our inclusion.

True. But Tulane's inclusion (and opening up a new fertile recruiting area) might help the non-Texas Big XII schools stomach the loss of recruiting territory if UH gets in. In a number of ways, UH and Tulane may mutually benefit each other in this beauty contest. Of course a Grand Compromise (between the UT led Texas faction and the OU led non-Texas faction) will probably be necessary to get UH and BYU in. Oddly, Tulane and Cincy (or UConn if WVU prefers) may be the easiest two to settle on. In the end, I bet they'll strike the compromise, and that may well be why they are now back to leaning toward a four team expansion.

I agree with much of this. I'm not sure I understand why USF/UCF have to be a package. Either/or gets them access to Florida as Orlando and Tampa are about as close as NOLA/Baton Rouge.

For all the whining about how Tulane was a joke on the field and so we'd never be considered, it sure looks like geography and academics are going to be equally important in the end. If Dickson had been anything other than a complete incompetent disaster we'd almost definitely be P5 bound.

JJ, the Big 12 brass have never said USF/UCF need to be a package. But given all the complaints the conference members have about WVU being out on an island so far away, it wouldn't make sense to placate them with Cincinnati only to create a new island in Florida. And if WVU prefers UConn to Cincy, which is something I'm seeing from time to time, then adding a single Florida school would be even more of a travel nightmare.

I hear that, but placating WVU for travel concerns seems to be very far down the list. If travel concerns are a legitimate issue, all the better for our resume. But there's no chance that any decision is made as a way to make WVU feel better about traveling.

[HoustonWave]

LOL... the only thing I know for sure is that no one knows anything for sure...

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
I am told #BIGXII expansion is closer to NOT happening, OU is adamantly opposed to #Houston while as many as 7 members have said no to Cin

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
The #Houston issue comes down to #Texas controlling the conference and the friction UT has caused by rounding up votes AGAINST Cin #BIGXII

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
I am told #Oklahoma #OkSt and #WV are the only members to support Cin over Houston from the start #BIGXII

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
I am also told if #BIGXII expansion is to move forward #BYU has the support of 8 members and all media partners

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
I am also told Cincinnatti has never had enough votes to gain entry or the support of media partners, digital or broadcast #BIGXII

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
There was a small window where #OU had indicated a willingness to accept a scenario including #Houston but that has now changed #BIGXII

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
Source said "the interview process did not bring any clarity because everyone knew it was #BYU and #Houston ...except the state of Oklahoma"

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
My opinion after talking to several people close to #BIGXII ... #Cincinnati is respected but most members don't see the value they add

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
#Houston is the popular choice but #OU and #OKST could sway other members to not bring an expansion vote during the upcoming meetings

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
As it stands now, I'd put it 70-30 AGAINST expansion in the #BIGXII ...and if it does happen a significant change will have to occur.

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 15h15 hours ago
It's also clear #Texas has been working hard to create a controlling majority of members and #OU 's reaction to that was to dig its heels in

mike chase ‏@adguy59 14h14 hours ago
@TheMontyShow BYU opportunity has always seemed too good to be true.

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 13h13 hours ago
Long conversation w/ a #BYU source who said there is a "plan b" should #BIGXII expansion "go south"

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 12h12 hours ago
Working to confirm a few things but #BYU has had discussions with other #BIGXII members about alternate plans should expansion fail

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 12h12 hours ago
My feeling from talking to people today is #BYU & several CURRENT members of the #BIGXII have been working on plans outside of the #BIGXII

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 12h12 hours ago
"Everyone knows the #BIGXII shld add #Houston and #BYU but can't get along well enough to slice the pie...everyone is watching and waiting"

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
OU & Texas are like two neighbor who hate each other and ruin the block for everyone.Egging each other houses ...calling the cops...so dumb!

Tim Montemayor ‏@TheMontyShow 2h2 hours ago
Texas has leverage because their brand is so massive, OU while significant, is not able to write its own ticket the way Texas can.

What a food fight. Sounds like Cincy's blandness (if that's even a word) may have caught up with them. It's interesting, the suggestions that BYU and certain other Big XII members may be plotting a Plan B. Sounds like no expansion might be the death knell of the Big XII. Maybe OU, along with Cincy and BYU and others forms a new conference, and Texas may get it's ultimate wish and form its own Texas-based conference. Which one would be best for Tulane? We might get two offers.

[jonathanjoseph]

LOL... the only thing I know for sure is that no one knows anything for sure...

Wow. What a $hit show. I'd bet it's 70-30 FOR expansion because if this falls through you can bet this conference has little chance in the long term.

[RobertM320]

And here's a different viewpoint from someone who runs a Texas Tech site. He seems to think there was no intent to expand. Just political cover for Texas and OU to leave. But he thinks the league could disband before that, as other schools start getting poached by other P5s.


Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 15h15 hours ago
No. There may have been wind in the wire like that but come nut cutting time, votes not there for any teams ....

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 15h15 hours ago
No offense to any fan of any school, but y'all have been played. A sad opera designed to give an out to #UT & #OU.

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 15h15 hours ago
Ha. Not hardly. Just Occam's Razor in play. Watched this soap opera for years. A dysfunctional marriage gone bad.

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 15h15 hours ago
Ryan Hyatt Retweeted ChrisCarpenter
1.5 to end of current tv deal. Of course deals can always be scuttled and redone so really doesn't matterRyan Hyatt added,
ChrisCarpenter @ChrisCarp22
@RyanHyattMedia so how many more years of existence do you give the big 12

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 14h14 hours ago
Ryan Hyatt Retweeted Russell Smith
First part, yes. All a show. TV not a big deal. All a show to allow #OU & #UT to say they tried to save conference..Ryan Hyatt added,
Russell Smith @kingfish806
@RyanHyattMedia This was all a show. It was meant to get TV to tip their hand on future negotiations.

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 14h14 hours ago
I truly feel bad for teams that thought #Big12Expansion was real and they'd get it. It never was gonna happen. Dog & Pony show. . .

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 14h14 hours ago
The next phase of #Big12Expansion is actually watching other conferences begin to position themselves for the remnants. Who wants whom?.....

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 14h14 hours ago
There are fewer TV networks than conferences.Hence, networks have the power to dictate from here what conferences look like. #Big12Expansion

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 14h14 hours ago
No. Because #OU and #UT never intended to expand. They needed political cover to make their exit easier...

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 14h14 hours ago
Schools/fans need to embrace idea that not all sports will play in same conference/groupings. What works for football, doesn't for golf...

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 14h14 hours ago
Ryan Hyatt Retweeted Barry Propes
No way it lasts that long. In a few weeks the vultures will start picking at the remains.Ryan Hyatt added,
Barry Propes @bpropes30
@RyanHyattMedia hmmm. Ok. Well, I guess this dumb league will R.I.P. circa 2023.

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 14h14 hours ago
Ryan Hyatt Retweeted Nathan Rigler
No. Just no expansion announcement. Then it sets in motion the other leagues moving on Big 12 teams. . . .
Nathan Rigler @nrig_tx
@RyanHyattMedia @bpropes30 A few weeks? So you expect some kind of exit announcement by UT and OU in the near future.

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 14h14 hours ago
Ryan Hyatt Retweeted Barry Propes
No.
Barry Propes @bpropes30
@RyanHyattMedia won't teams forfeit all their $ prior to the GOR expiration?

Ryan Hyatt ‏@RyanHyattMedia 13h13 hours ago
Ryan Hyatt Retweeted Barry Propes
More or less. The GOR is on shaky legal ground no matter what. It's merely a contract & contracts get changed.EasilyRyan Hyatt added,
Barry Propes @bpropes30
@RyanHyattMedia so the majority will vote to disband? Isn't that what it takes?