Big XII Expansion

[Robert1969]

And let's not pretend that that Sugar Bowl thing is no big deal. Some pretty gargantuan college football games have been played in that game.

[Robert1969]

The city has been a remarkable big event sports host. There is no question about that. It's small market so it doesn't have all four major sports. All of the cities listed above it are many times larger than New Orleans, except Ann Arbor which is only is about the distance between Laplace and New Orleans from Detroit.

It is a great place to host a major event of anykind and no one really disputes that. It's not noted for its hometown college athletics program but that can always be rectified.

[Jaxwave]

Because of the national perception that Tulane athletics HAVE BEEN a joke for a long time, it is going to be difficult to PROVE that our future will be better. It will take a gargantuan effort on behalf of Fitts and TD to get not only the Big XXII decision makers to believe it, but also television partners (who look at regional interest and historical ratings) to believe it. Those partners will also need very large gonads to put up with the blowback of picking Tulane.

For those reasons I am very very hopeful that we will be picked but am tempering my excitement level so as not to be extremely let down if it doesn't happen. IMHO this is long term make or break for Tulane athletics. It's either continued small crowds, poor recruiting, low support from New Orleans fans and alumni or a revitalization of the greatest magnitude of all of those factors.

Personally, I feel I am a microcosm of the Tulane Fan base. I have been a 50 year supporter who has seen some good but mostly bad over the years. I have lived but mostly died with the Wave for a long time. Should we be picked I will continue to support them enthusiastically, but if not, I am not interested in following what is left of the AAC conference and am ready to move onto other interests. I am too old to put up with more disappointing seasons in an irrelevant league.

[HoustonWave]

Funny, I think around the same time you were speaking to your OU buddy, I was speaking to two friends, one is a UT alum, the other an OU alum. They work together in the DFW area. The UT alumnus is VERY active in UT Athletics and Big 12 sports. He was shocked that I thought Tulane was even being considered. He laughed when I mentioned AAU status, geography, etc. He thinks Tulane is probably a small mark way down on a long list. The OU guy felt that OU would get out of the Big 12 if it added teams "like Tulane".

DfromCT, talk to your UT friend again. Ask him if he's willing to pay the expenses to send his volleyball team, softball team, swim team, baseball team and other minor sports to UConn every year. Don't forget to let him know that UConn's baseball field doesn't have lights. As for your OU guy, sounds like the typical fan that doesn't understand the workings of college athletic conferences.

They didn't bring up UConn at all. But they pointed out that there's at least a handful of FCS institutions that invest more in Athletics than Tulane. Specifically, he mentioned James Madison University, which is 60th in the country in Athletics Spending. (He is NOT advocating JMU to the Big 12, but thinks they'll move up to D1 in the next few years.) I brought up our recent $150 million investment in facilities and improvements, they were shocked our stadium alone didn't cost that much.

Just because I live in the fine state of Connecticut doesn't mean I'm pushing UConn. I know they're an geographic nightmare for the Big 12. But they're light years ahead of us in terms of fan base and competitiveness across the board.

Do your friends typically keep up with the athletic spends at Tulane and JMU?

[golfnut69]

D from CT, we are laughing at you and your obvious disdain for Tulane and your obvious opposition to Tulane becoming a BIG XII member.

Pete...who krapped in your sno ball ?...First you attack me and now Dave (D/CT)...Tulane can only wish all of it's long distanced Grads supported Tulane in the manner Dave does. He contributes, buy's season tickets and travels to Games.. he and his family did so even though they were experciencing a difficult personal time with his Son....Please elaborate why you are posting these attacks

Please, either get back on the meds or go visit Sader's business and get in a happy mood !!!!

Have a wonderful week end !!!

[RobertM320]

Interesting radio interview with AP writer Ralph Russo. He does a good job of explaining the B12 Expansion situation. He basically says, they're not looking for someone to build up their brand as much as they're looking for schools to build up their numbers.

http://cdn.stationcaster.com/stations/w ... 198905.mp3

cdn.stationcaster.com/stations/wjox/media/mp3/Ralph_Russo-1469198905.mp3

[DfromCT]

Funny, I think around the same time you were speaking to your OU buddy, I was speaking to two friends, one is a UT alum, the other an OU alum. They work together in the DFW area. The UT alumnus is VERY active in UT Athletics and Big 12 sports. He was shocked that I thought Tulane was even being considered. He laughed when I mentioned AAU status, geography, etc. He thinks Tulane is probably a small mark way down on a long list. The OU guy felt that OU would get out of the Big 12 if it added teams "like Tulane".

DfromCT, talk to your UT friend again. Ask him if he's willing to pay the expenses to send his volleyball team, softball team, swim team, baseball team and other minor sports to UConn every year. Don't forget to let him know that UConn's baseball field doesn't have lights. As for your OU guy, sounds like the typical fan that doesn't understand the workings of college athletic conferences.

They didn't bring up UConn at all. But they pointed out that there's at least a handful of FCS institutions that invest more in Athletics than Tulane. Specifically, he mentioned James Madison University, which is 60th in the country in Athletics Spending. (He is NOT advocating JMU to the Big 12, but thinks they'll move up to D1 in the next few years.) I brought up our recent $150 million investment in facilities and improvements, they were shocked our stadium alone didn't cost that much.

Just because I live in the fine state of Connecticut doesn't mean I'm pushing UConn. I know they're an geographic nightmare for the Big 12. But they're light years ahead of us in terms of fan base and competitiveness across the board.

Do your friends typically keep up with the athletic spends at Tulane and JMU?

JMU yes (he's got a degree from there, too and is advising them on a move to D1, having advised them last year to turn down an invite from the Sun Belt, which they did.) Tulane, no. Though he did tell me we were going to hire Mike Dunleavy before I read it anywhere else. He wanted to know if I could find out how much we were offering him, I had no clue. He is very plugged in to what most schools Athletics Department's budgets are. Tulane, however, being a Private School, has less of that information available to the public. I'm sure he could tell you off the top of his head what the Athletics Budget is for each of the 10 schools in the Big 12.

[winwave]

It came at regularly scheduled meetings. He had it on the agenda before that announcement.

[nawlinspete]

D from CT, we are laughing at you and your obvious disdain for Tulane and your obvious opposition to Tulane becoming a BIG XII member.

Pete...who krapped in your sno ball ?...First you attack me and now Dave (D/CT)...Tulane can only wish all of it's long distanced Grads supported Tulane in the manner Dave does. He contributes, buy's season tickets and travels to Games.. he and his family did so even though they were experciencing a difficult personal time with his Son....Please elaborate why you are posting these attacks

Please, either get back on the meds or go visit Sader's business and get in a happy mood !!!!

Have a wonderful week end !!!

DfromCT is the krapper; everything about Tulane athletics demands that we not be considered, let alone be admitted, according to him.

You have a great weekend, too....

[jonathanjoseph]

Thank you! I've been looking for that, off and on, since it's become one of JJ's go to arguments. New Orleans was named top city in North America for sports destinations based upon hosting the Super Bowl, Final Four, PGA Golf, Pelicans Basketball, and a WWE event the following year. They mention everything except college athletics. Has the City won or been a top 5 since?

Personally, having been to three Super Bowls, I think the NFL should consider the SuperDome as the permanent host to the Super Bowl. It would also make a great place to play a Power Conference Championship game!

OMG dude. Not only did they mention Final Fours, but there are two Bowl games including a major NYE/NYD bowl game played there annually. This idea that "the Superdome is great, unless we're talking Tulane football in which case it's intolerably bad" is residual Dickson Disease. Yes Dickson believed that and Dickson also believed a 22K stadium was a game changing "crown jewel".

[jonathanjoseph]

I guess you missed the articles and headlines in June saying the Big 12 had postponed expansion, most suggested it was postponing expansion for a number of years. Then the ACC TV deal came out, their TV consultants were called back to make another presentation and less than 48 hours after the ACC TV network was announced, all of the sudden Big 12 expansion is now being explored. It is about money. Why do they desperately want an in to the playoff? Money. Why do they want to have a Big 12 Network? Money.

Insanity. So consultants were called, they revised their presentation, a meeting involving 10 major university presidents was called, coordinated and held where these revised findings were presented, acted on fundamentally altering the conference makeup and all this happened in 48 hours? This doesn't pass a basic smell test of possible. It would take more than 48 hours for consultants to agree on what they should be paid for the project and it would likely take 2-3 weeks to get 10 university president's schedules lined up and that may be generous.

[jonathanjoseph]

So, you don't think that the ACC network, which will add roughly $8 million/year to each school ABOVE AND BEYOND what they're currently getting from TV rights deals, had anything to do with Big 12 re-considering expansion? Or the fact that the ACC deal means the Big 12 is the only "Power" conference without a TV network of it's own had nothing to do with re-opening expansion talks less than 48 hours after it was announced? If that is the case, you're opinion is much different from the mass media, which thinks the ACC network announcement brought the Big 12 back to the expansion table.

Oklahoma president David Boren said the ACC Network "indicates that we live in a very fast-changing world" and the Big 12 needs to be proactive. It was a complete reversal from Boren's comments a month earlier and ran counter to the idea many people in the Big 12 had that expansion would be tabled for now.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-footba ... a-channel/

The Big 12 was actually one of the first to have a conference network it's just all Texas all the time. There can't possibly be another Big 12 network without first settling on the future of the Longhorn Network and that's not reasonably possible inside of a few years. Also, it was the ACC's extension of the grant of rights that has more impact on the Big12 than the ACC Network.

[jonathanjoseph]

It is a great place to host a major event of anykind and no one really disputes that. It's not noted for its hometown college athletics program but that can always be rectified.

That's exactly the right point. The disconnect is that the "hometown college athletics program" has not been involved in "major events". But this was highly intentional by Cowen/Dickson, i.e. the Tulane Model. If the hometown college athletics program were regularly involved in major events, like say Big 12 football games, the Dome would be a great place.

[jonathanjoseph]

JMU yes (he's got a degree from there, too and is advising them on a move to D1, having advised them last year to turn down an invite from the Sun Belt, which they did.) Tulane, no. Though he did tell me we were going to hire Mike Dunleavy before I read it anywhere else. He wanted to know if I could find out how much we were offering him, I had no clue. He is very plugged in to what most schools Athletics Department's budgets are. Tulane, however, being a Private School, has less of that information available to the public. I'm sure he could tell you off the top of his head what the Athletics Budget is for each of the 10 schools in the Big 12.

LOL this is the gentleman whose forgotten more than I know? Perhaps you can help cretins like me understand why an FCS program with a large budget would turn down an FBS invite. It's probably a 5X-10X increase in revenue and exposure. What are they holding out for the AAC or MWC?

[DfromCT]

I guess you missed the articles and headlines in June saying the Big 12 had postponed expansion, most suggested it was postponing expansion for a number of years. Then the ACC TV deal came out, their TV consultants were called back to make another presentation and less than 48 hours after the ACC TV network was announced, all of the sudden Big 12 expansion is now being explored. It is about money. Why do they desperately want an in to the playoff? Money. Why do they want to have a Big 12 Network? Money.

Insanity. So consultants were called, they revised their presentation, a meeting involving 10 major university presidents was called, coordinated and held where these revised findings were presented, acted on fundamentally altering the conference makeup and all this happened in 48 hours? This doesn't pass a basic smell test of possible. It would take more than 48 hours for consultants to agree on what they should be paid for the project and it would likely take 2-3 weeks to get 10 university president's schedules lined up and that may be generous.

Please see previous post about your ability to read and comprehend a post by someone with a different viewpoint from yours.

[lurker123]

JMU yes (he's got a degree from there, too and is advising them on a move to D1, having advised them last year to turn down an invite from the Sun Belt, which they did.) Tulane, no. Though he did tell me we were going to hire Mike Dunleavy before I read it anywhere else. He wanted to know if I could find out how much we were offering him, I had no clue. He is very plugged in to what most schools Athletics Department's budgets are. Tulane, however, being a Private School, has less of that information available to the public. I'm sure he could tell you off the top of his head what the Athletics Budget is for each of the 10 schools in the Big 12.

LOL this is the gentleman whose forgotten more than I know? Perhaps you can help cretins like me understand why an FCS program with a large budget would turn down an FBS invite. It's probably a 5X-10X increase in revenue and exposure. What are they holding out for the AAC or MWC?

The answer is basically economic. Even though JMU may have a large budget perhaps it did not want a larger one. Perhaps they saw the marginal revenue from joining the Sun Belt would not offset the admittance cost of joining the Sunbelt and departing its existing conference, cost of 40 additional full scholarships (20 for difference in football between FCS and FBS plus Title IX match for women athletes), cost of additional sport(s) for women, "matching" Sunbelt pay scale for coaches which is almost certainly more than what they are paying today, additional recruiting costs for going after higher caliber athletes, additional travel costs for a more geographically dispersed conference and additional payments for Cost of Attendance to scholarship athletes. (Yes this is optional but most/all FBS schools have adopted it for competitive protection.)

This assumes no investment required for enhanced facilities. Maybe they were looking at their peer institution ODU which has spent a fortune since joining CUSA and only seeing its TV revenue share drop dramatically a couple of years after joining.

In other words, they saw a lot more cost and not enough benefit.

Perhaps to use your favorite term, the Board of Trustees properly exercised its fiduciary duty.

[lurker123]

I guess you missed the articles and headlines in June saying the Big 12 had postponed expansion, most suggested it was postponing expansion for a number of years. Then the ACC TV deal came out, their TV consultants were called back to make another presentation and less than 48 hours after the ACC TV network was announced, all of the sudden Big 12 expansion is now being explored. It is about money. Why do they desperately want an in to the playoff? Money. Why do they want to have a Big 12 Network? Money.

Insanity. So consultants were called, they revised their presentation, a meeting involving 10 major university presidents was called, coordinated and held where these revised findings were presented, acted on fundamentally altering the conference makeup and all this happened in 48 hours? This doesn't pass a basic smell test of possible. It would take more than 48 hours for consultants to agree on what they should be paid for the project and it would likely take 2-3 weeks to get 10 university president's schedules lined up and that may be generous.

Please see previous post about your ability to read and comprehend a post by someone with a different viewpoint from yours.

JJ assumes the Presidents all participated. Perhaps they did but anyone ever heard of use of proxies?

If one of my main competitors announced a dramatic expansion (in this case the ACC Network) which provides dramatically enhanced revenue advantage to it, I might clear my schedule on little notice to discuss how to respond.

Does he think Bowlsby just fell off the turnip truck? Maybe the Big XII presidents had previously authorized its Commissioner to study this issue and the work was finished or almost so. Instead of being filed away in a drawer or simply await the next scheduled meeting for a presentation, the ACC announcement might have just might have given possible Big XII action much more urgency.

What would have been more amazing is to do and say nothing. This is all called strategic planning and preparation (for all significant eventualities) which all first class organizations do.

What is more interesting is that this poster would rather hang out on the grassy knoll with the tin foil hat crowd because what occurred doesn't fit his preferred narrative.

If it doesn't pass the smell test, please provide credible third party proof like from a reputable journalist who covers Big XII and/or its members closely that supports the vast conspiracy going on here.

[DfromCT]

The funny thing is how he reads my post as if I'm saying that they Big 12 wasn't already going to meet, that it was all pulled together in reaction to the ACC announcement. It didn't happen that way. For those paying attention (like Winwave) the meetings were already scheduled, but took a markedly different tone scrambling in response to the ACC announcement. The consultants, whom were pushing for expansion to begin with, had more ammo and delivered a more compelling argument than they did a month earlier. The Universities were much more receptive; in sales it's referred to as "a sense of urgency was created." That's what the ACC announcement did to the Big 12. It created the sense of urgency (as, lets face it, the Big 12 is the most vulnerable if the landscape goes to 4 "Power Conferences" of 16 teams) that wasn't there the day before the announcement.

[Show Me]

SEC going after Oklahoma and Oklahoma St?
If so that would open up 2 more spots.
http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2016/ ... e_home_pop

It's why Sankey needs to convince the presidents and chancellors of all the SEC members he needs to make strong recruiting pitches to Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to become the league's 15th an 16th members.

The schools fit the SEC demographic in every possible way, and not just the obvious fact both have great football programs that gave us College Football Hall of Fame coaches like Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switizer, and Heisman Trophy winners such as Barry Sanders and Billy Sims.

[Jaxwave]

That writer is an idiot. Louisville is already placed in the ACC and of course despite being a writer for a NO newspaper he conveniently leaves the hometown school out of the Big XXII possible expansion schools. If anybody doubts the conspiracy for the BR team and against The local team, look no further than this article.

[lurker123]

That writer is an idiot. Louisville is already placed in the ACC and of course despite being a writer for a NO newspaper he conveniently leaves the hometown school out of the Big XXII possible expansion schools. If anybody doubts the conspiracy for the BR team and against The local team, look no further than this article.

Amen. As you note it's the New Orleans reporter not even feeling the need of mentioning Tulane says it all.

[Jonathan]

Please do not call a poster an idiot if you disagree with him. We all have our rights under the Constitution to our opinions. It is beneath you to act so rude.

[winwave]

The writers motive is very clear. He wants Alabama out of the SEC west.

[ajcalhoun]

The answer is basically economic. Even though JMU may have a large budget perhaps it did not want a larger one. Perhaps they saw the marginal revenue from joining the Sun Belt would not offset the admittance cost of joining the Sunbelt and departing its existing conference, cost of 40 additional full scholarships (20 for difference in football between FCS and FBS plus Title IX match for women athletes), cost of additional sport(s) for women, "matching" Sunbelt pay scale for coaches which is almost certainly more than what they are paying today, additional recruiting costs for going after higher caliber athletes, additional travel costs for a more geographically dispersed conference and additional payments for Cost of Attendance to scholarship athletes. (Yes this is optional but most/all FBS schools have adopted it for competitive protection.)

This assumes no investment required for enhanced facilities. Maybe they were looking at their peer institution ODU which has spent a fortune since joining CUSA and only seeing its TV revenue share drop dramatically a couple of years after joining.

In other words, they saw a lot more cost and not enough benefit.

Thank you. Right or wrong you brought something new to this thread.

[winwave]

lurker-thanks for expounding on my theory elsewhere.