Big XII Expansion

[51WaveBG]

I was just wondering if TU would even have a chance to be part of a Big 12 expansion? We may have lost any chance when we didn't appoint a sitting Head Football coach 5 years ago, hired Conroy and let the baseball program slide before making a move. How long can too many years of Rick Dickson and Scott Cowen take to fix? Dannen has the connections and know how, but will that be enough? We have a sub-standard size stadium, a sub-standard basketball playing facility, no IPF, poor conditioning facilities, etc. Other than our academic credentials, what would we really bring to the Big 12. Would appreciate some of your thoughts on this.

[golfnut69]

I was just wondering if TU would even have a chance to be part of a Big 12 expansion? We may have lost any chance when we didn't appoint a sitting Head Football coach 5 years ago, hired Conroy and let the baseball program slide before making a move. How long can too many years of Rick Dickson and Scott Cowen take to fix? Dannen has the connections and know how, but will that be enough? We have a sub-standard size stadium, a sub-standard basketball playing facility, no IPF, poor conditioning facilities, etc. Other than our academic credentials, what would we really bring to the Big 12. Would appreciate some of your thoughts on this.

51....as I understand the training facilities are going to be addressed.... an on campus IPF ( bubble) like the one Texas has can be fit on campus with minimal infrastructure being needed.. Stadium size can be mitigated by moving the Oklahoma and Texas games to the Dome, but Yulman must be expanded to at least 45,000...Basketball game site must be improved, with McAllister Dr now closed to traffic I do not see any reason it cannot be expanded ...I personally would like to see Yulman domed with an inflatable, retractable type roof...this takes care of the IPF issue...and to add a few stats/capacities
Vandy .40,000....Baylor...45,000....Northwestern...47,000...Georgia Tech...57,000.....Duke...41,000....Wake Forest..32,000....TCU...45,000

[jonathanjoseph]

I was just wondering if TU would even have a chance to be part of a Big 12 expansion? We may have lost any chance when we didn't appoint a sitting Head Football coach 5 years ago, hired Conroy and let the baseball program slide before making a move. How long can too many years of Rick Dickson and Scott Cowen take to fix? Dannen has the connections and know how, but will that be enough? We have a sub-standard size stadium, a sub-standard basketball playing facility, no IPF, poor conditioning facilities, etc. Other than our academic credentials, what would we really bring to the Big 12. Would appreciate some of your thoughts on this.

51....as I understand the training facilities are going to be addressed.... an on campus IPF ( bubble) like the one Texas has can be fit on campus with minimal infrastructure being needed.. Stadium size can be mitigated by moving the Oklahoma and Texas games to the Dome, but Yulman must be expanded to at least 45,000...Basketball game site must be improved, with McAllister Dr now closed to traffic I do not see any reason it cannot be expanded ...I personally would like to see Yulman domed with an inflatable, retractable type roof...this takes care of the IPF issue...and to add a few stats/capacities
Vandy .40,000....Baylor...45,000....Northwestern...47,000...Georgia Tech...57,000.....Duke...41,000....Wake Forest..32,000....TCU...45,000

Well, to bring it full circle, is expanding Yulman a realistic possibility? I don't mean structurally, I mean financially. Our major donors have already put up ~$100M. Adding the non-gameday facilities, upgrading Fogelman, etc will run at least $50M and probably closer to $100M. So that's around $150M-$200M that would be donated and spent before getting to Yulman.

Expanding Yulman to 45K will run another $100M minimum. And then you'd be looking at having 1-2 home games per year in the Dome (Texas, OK, etc) so there's no way to justify it financially.

[golfnut69]

I was just wondering if TU would even have a chance to be part of a Big 12 expansion? We may have lost any chance when we didn't appoint a sitting Head Football coach 5 years ago, hired Conroy and let the baseball program slide before making a move. How long can too many years of Rick Dickson and Scott Cowen take to fix? Dannen has the connections and know how, but will that be enough? We have a sub-standard size stadium, a sub-standard basketball playing facility, no IPF, poor conditioning facilities, etc. Other than our academic credentials, what would we really bring to the Big 12. Would appreciate some of your thoughts on this.

51....as I understand the training facilities are going to be addressed.... an on campus IPF ( bubble) like the one Texas has can be fit on campus with minimal infrastructure being needed.. Stadium size can be mitigated by moving the Oklahoma and Texas games to the Dome, but Yulman must be expanded to at least 45,000...Basketball game site must be improved, with McAllister Dr now closed to traffic I do not see any reason it cannot be expanded ...I personally would like to see Yulman domed with an inflatable, retractable type roof...this takes care of the IPF issue...and to add a few stats/capacities
Vandy .40,000....Baylor...45,000....Northwestern...47,000...Georgia Tech...57,000.....Duke...41,000....Wake Forest..32,000....TCU...45,000

Well, to bring it full circle, is expanding Yulman a realistic possibility? I don't mean structurally, I mean financially. Our major donors have already put up ~$100M. Adding the non-gameday facilities, upgrading Fogelman, etc will run at least $50M and probably closer to $100M. So that's around $150M-$200M that would be donated and spent before getting to Yulman.

Expanding Yulman to 45K will run another $100M minimum. And then you'd be looking at having 1-2 home games per year in the Dome (Texas, OK, etc) so there's no way to justify it financially.

There is always a penalty price to be paid when you do not do the job the correct way the First Time

[HoustonWave]

The more one reads about the Big 12 expansion possibilities, and UT's behind the scene efforts to stop expansion, the more you realize just how dysfunctional the Big 12 has become. The expansion talk, has resurfaced the fundamental neuroses that nearly doomed the conference five years ago. I still think the chances of UT and/or OU moving on are quite good. The remaining Big 12 orphans will then start scrambling to hold the Big 12 together--we ought to be strategizing to get into that orphanage.

[Aberzombie1892]

The more one reads about the Big 12 expansion possibilities, and UT's behind the scene efforts to stop expansion, the more you realize just how dysfunctional the Big 12 has become. The expansion talk, has resurfaced the fundamental neuroses that nearly doomed the conference five years ago. I still think the chances of UT and/or OU moving on are quite good. The remaining Big 12 orphans will then start scrambling to hold the Big 12 together--we ought to be strategizing to get into that orphanage.

The Big 12 is really not that dysfunctional - there is a serious ideological disagreement concerning how to determine a champion, and both sides are reasonable, and that does not even go into the money issue.

One camp says, 10 teams, full round robin, and no championship game. This approach is the most fair and logical way to determine a champion, and it bolsters interest in lesser programs since their fans know that the big name programs will come play at their stadium every other year (except for Texas/Oklahoma and Baylor/Tech). So, for example, Iowa State and Kansas still draw a significant amount of fans to their home games because their fans know that they will get to see Baylor/TCU/Texas/Oklahoma/Oklahoma State/WVU/TT/etc. every other year. Not only that, but because of the round robin, virtually every game is worth watching since a random loss to a lower profile team could knock out one of the contenders and there are neither divisions nor a championship game to compensate for that loss.

The other camp says, we should maximize our chances at the playoff and nothing else matters. 12+ teams, 8 conference games, and a championship game. This is probably one of the worst ways to determine a champion, but it ensures that the middle teams in the conference will have solid overall records even though they aren't that great (i.e. win 4 OOC and 4 conference games to arrive at a 8-4 record and a good bowl as opposed to the way it is now where a middling team may not even reach 6 wins since there are only 3 OOC and the teams have to play everyone in order to win 3 more), it provides a cushion for the top team to have one loss and still make the playoff, and it maximizes the chances of the lower profile teams of hitting 6 wins. This method mirrors what the SEC and ACC currently do, and it would be as close as humanly possible to guarantee a no loss or one loss Big 12 team gets included in the final four since the Pac 12 and B1G will have one more conference game that could frequently mean one more loss for a potential playoff team.

More directly to your last point, I believe that if Oklahoma and Texas left and the conference expanded to 14, Tulane would make the 6 team cut.

[golfnut69]

The more one reads about the Big 12 expansion possibilities, and UT's behind the scene efforts to stop expansion, the more you realize just how dysfunctional the Big 12 has become. The expansion talk, has resurfaced the fundamental neuroses that nearly doomed the conference five years ago. I still think the chances of UT and/or OU moving on are quite good. The remaining Big 12 orphans will then start scrambling to hold the Big 12 together--we ought to be strategizing to get into that orphanage.

if UT and OU move on and the rest of the Big 12 left behind, then UH is an auto invite...Cincy to go with WVU looks good.... Tulane has good relations with Baylor and Texas Tech and the Big 12 commish...where UT and OU would land, I guess that would have to be the Pac 12..unless the SEC expands and I doubt Texas A&M would allow Texas to be invited

[ajcalhoun]

The more one reads about the Big 12 expansion possibilities, and UT's behind the scene efforts to stop expansion, the more you realize just how dysfunctional the Big 12 has become. The expansion talk, has resurfaced the fundamental neuroses that nearly doomed the conference five years ago. I still think the chances of UT and/or OU moving on are quite good. The remaining Big 12 orphans will then start scrambling to hold the Big 12 together--we ought to be strategizing to get into that orphanage.

if UT and OU move on and the rest of the Big 12 left behind, then UH is an auto invite...Cincy to go with WVU looks good.... Tulane has good relations with Baylor and Texas Tech and the Big 12 commish...where UT and OU would land, I guess that would have to be the Pac 12..unless the SEC expands and I doubt Texas A&M would allow Texas to be invited

And then we would have a P4 and a G6.

[golfnut69]

The more one reads about the Big 12 expansion possibilities, and UT's behind the scene efforts to stop expansion, the more you realize just how dysfunctional the Big 12 has become. The expansion talk, has resurfaced the fundamental neuroses that nearly doomed the conference five years ago. I still think the chances of UT and/or OU moving on are quite good. The remaining Big 12 orphans will then start scrambling to hold the Big 12 together--we ought to be strategizing to get into that orphanage.

if UT and OU move on and the rest of the Big 12 left behind, then UH is an auto invite...Cincy to go with WVU looks good.... Tulane has good relations with Baylor and Texas Tech and the Big 12 commish...where UT and OU would land, I guess that would have to be the Pac 12..unless the SEC expands and I doubt Texas A&M would allow Texas to be invited

And then we would have a P4 and a G6.

P4 & G6 ?!?!?.... why is that....UT ans OU have been getting their ass kicked on a regular basis, if not for injuries at Baylor and TCU, OU would not have won the Big 12 last year...and UT has been regulated to just another team on the schedule

[Wavetime]

The more one reads about the Big 12 expansion possibilities, and UT's behind the scene efforts to stop expansion, the more you realize just how dysfunctional the Big 12 has become. The expansion talk, has resurfaced the fundamental neuroses that nearly doomed the conference five years ago. I still think the chances of UT and/or OU moving on are quite good. The remaining Big 12 orphans will then start scrambling to hold the Big 12 together--we ought to be strategizing to get into that orphanage.

if UT and OU move on and the rest of the Big 12 left behind, then UH is an auto invite...Cincy to go with WVU looks good.... Tulane has good relations with Baylor and Texas Tech and the Big 12 commish...where UT and OU would land, I guess that would have to be the Pac 12..unless the SEC expands and I doubt Texas A&M would allow Texas to be invited

If Texas and OU were to bolt, I think they would go different ways. I believe that OU and OK St. would go to the Big 10 and Texas and one other would go to the Pac 12. Just my opinion. The AAC could then cherry pick and form a good strong conference. However, I'm sure the remnants of the Big 12 would cherry pick the AAC plus Boise St. and Colorado St. I do think that we would be in that number.

[ajcalhoun]

The more one reads about the Big 12 expansion possibilities, and UT's behind the scene efforts to stop expansion, the more you realize just how dysfunctional the Big 12 has become. The expansion talk, has resurfaced the fundamental neuroses that nearly doomed the conference five years ago. I still think the chances of UT and/or OU moving on are quite good. The remaining Big 12 orphans will then start scrambling to hold the Big 12 together--we ought to be strategizing to get into that orphanage.

if UT and OU move on and the rest of the Big 12 left behind, then UH is an auto invite...Cincy to go with WVU looks good.... Tulane has good relations with Baylor and Texas Tech and the Big 12 commish...where UT and OU would land, I guess that would have to be the Pac 12..unless the SEC expands and I doubt Texas A&M would allow Texas to be invited

And then we would have a P4 and a G6.

P4 & G6 ?!?!?.... why is that....UT ans OU have been getting their ass kicked on a regular basis, if not for injuries at Baylor and TCU, OU would not have won the Big 12 last year...and UT has been regulated to just another team on the schedule

The winner of a Big XII that doesn't include UT or OU won't get within sniffing distance of a spot in a four-team CFP.

[golfnut69]

The more one reads about the Big 12 expansion possibilities, and UT's behind the scene efforts to stop expansion, the more you realize just how dysfunctional the Big 12 has become. The expansion talk, has resurfaced the fundamental neuroses that nearly doomed the conference five years ago. I still think the chances of UT and/or OU moving on are quite good. The remaining Big 12 orphans will then start scrambling to hold the Big 12 together--we ought to be strategizing to get into that orphanage.

if UT and OU move on and the rest of the Big 12 left behind, then UH is an auto invite...Cincy to go with WVU looks good.... Tulane has good relations with Baylor and Texas Tech and the Big 12 commish...where UT and OU would land, I guess that would have to be the Pac 12..unless the SEC expands and I doubt Texas A&M would allow Texas to be invited

If Texas and OU were to bolt, I think they would go different ways. I believe that OU and OK St. would go to the Big 10 and Texas and one other would go to the Pac 12. Just my opinion. The AAC could then cherry pick and form a good strong conference. However, I'm sure the remnants of the Big 12 would cherry pick the AAC plus Boise St. and Colorado St. I do think that we would be in that number.

If they go their seperate ways look for Tech to be bundled with Texas... I do not think the Pac 12 wants any more Private schools...I am not sure the Big 10 wants Okie State...I think they will want Kansas, simply for the KCMO TV Market

[golfnut69]

The more one reads about the Big 12 expansion possibilities, and UT's behind the scene efforts to stop expansion, the more you realize just how dysfunctional the Big 12 has become. The expansion talk, has resurfaced the fundamental neuroses that nearly doomed the conference five years ago. I still think the chances of UT and/or OU moving on are quite good. The remaining Big 12 orphans will then start scrambling to hold the Big 12 together--we ought to be strategizing to get into that orphanage.

if UT and OU move on and the rest of the Big 12 left behind, then UH is an auto invite...Cincy to go with WVU looks good.... Tulane has good relations with Baylor and Texas Tech and the Big 12 commish...where UT and OU would land, I guess that would have to be the Pac 12..unless the SEC expands and I doubt Texas A&M would allow Texas to be invited

And then we would have a P4 and a G6.

P4 & G6 ?!?!?.... why is that....UT ans OU have been getting their ass kicked on a regular basis, if not for injuries at Baylor and TCU, OU would not have won the Big 12 last year...and UT has been regulated to just another team on the schedule

The winner of a Big XII that doesn't include UT or OU won't get within sniffing distance of a spot in a four-team CFP.

If a teams OOC schedule is strong and U win the Big 12 by beating OU and Texas and not given a shot...there is a problem with the committee and I would question their ability to serve....

[ajcalhoun]

The winner of a Big XII that doesn't include UT or OU won't get within sniffing distance of a spot in a four-team CFP.

If a teams OOC schedule is strong and U win the Big 12 by beating OU and Texas and not given a shot...there is a problem with the committee and I would question their ability to serve....

Perhaps I should have worded that better. If the Big XII were to no longer include UT and OU then their champion would not get within sniffing distance of a spot in a four-team CFP.

[jonathanjoseph]

The more one reads about the Big 12 expansion possibilities, and UT's behind the scene efforts to stop expansion, the more you realize just how dysfunctional the Big 12 has become. The expansion talk, has resurfaced the fundamental neuroses that nearly doomed the conference five years ago. I still think the chances of UT and/or OU moving on are quite good. The remaining Big 12 orphans will then start scrambling to hold the Big 12 together--we ought to be strategizing to get into that orphanage.

Correct about both. The Big 12 looks extremely incompetent and unable to make a decision and I've heard very recent rumors that included Texas and OK moving on from the Big 12.

[jonathanjoseph]

The more one reads about the Big 12 expansion possibilities, and UT's behind the scene efforts to stop expansion, the more you realize just how dysfunctional the Big 12 has become. The expansion talk, has resurfaced the fundamental neuroses that nearly doomed the conference five years ago. I still think the chances of UT and/or OU moving on are quite good. The remaining Big 12 orphans will then start scrambling to hold the Big 12 together--we ought to be strategizing to get into that orphanage.

The Big 12 is really not that dysfunctional - there is a serious ideological disagreement concerning how to determine a champion, and both sides are reasonable, and that does not even go into the money issue.

One camp says, 10 teams, full round robin, and no championship game. This approach is the most fair and logical way to determine a champion, and it bolsters interest in lesser programs since their fans know that the big name programs will come play at their stadium every other year (except for Texas/Oklahoma and Baylor/Tech). So, for example, Iowa State and Kansas still draw a significant amount of fans to their home games because their fans know that they will get to see Baylor/TCU/Texas/Oklahoma/Oklahoma State/WVU/TT/etc. every other year. Not only that, but because of the round robin, virtually every game is worth watching since a random loss to a lower profile team could knock out one of the contenders and there are neither divisions nor a championship game to compensate for that loss.

The other camp says, we should maximize our chances at the playoff and nothing else matters. 12+ teams, 8 conference games, and a championship game. This is probably one of the worst ways to determine a champion, but it ensures that the middle teams in the conference will have solid overall records even though they aren't that great (i.e. win 4 OOC and 4 conference games to arrive at a 8-4 record and a good bowl as opposed to the way it is now where a middling team may not even reach 6 wins since there are only 3 OOC and the teams have to play everyone in order to win 3 more), it provides a cushion for the top team to have one loss and still make the playoff, and it maximizes the chances of the lower profile teams of hitting 6 wins. This method mirrors what the SEC and ACC currently do, and it would be as close as humanly possible to guarantee a no loss or one loss Big 12 team gets included in the final four since the Pac 12 and B1G will have one more conference game that could frequently mean one more loss for a potential playoff team.

More directly to your last point, I believe that if Oklahoma and Texas left and the conference expanded to 14, Tulane would make the 6 team cut.

Jeez. That the Big 12 is, in fact, dysfunctional, seems like its fairly well established.

Meanwhile, "alumniwave", who claimed to be affiliated with a Big 12 athletic department and knew things about our AD search before they were known publicly said that there are 8 schools under consideration and Tulane isn't one of them. Team Dickson was quite confident that their Dickson/CJ/Conroy group with a 22K stadium was on the fast track to the Big 12.

[Aberzombie1892]

Any idea which 8?

BYU/Colorado State/Cincinnati/UConn/Memphis/UCF/USF/Houston?

[nawlinspete]

Except, golfnut, the Commissioner is Boren, whom you have taking Oklahoma to The B1G or The BIG XII.

[nawlinspete]

The more one reads about the Big 12 expansion possibilities, and UT's behind the scene efforts to stop expansion, the more you realize just how dysfunctional the Big 12 has become. The expansion talk, has resurfaced the fundamental neuroses that nearly doomed the conference five years ago. I still think the chances of UT and/or OU moving on are quite good. The remaining Big 12 orphans will then start scrambling to hold the Big 12 together--we ought to be strategizing to get into that orphanage.

if UT and OU move on and the rest of the Big 12 left behind, then UH is an auto invite...Cincy to go with WVU looks good.... Tulane has good relations with Baylor and Texas Tech and the Big 12 commish...where UT and OU would land, I guess that would have to be the Pac 12..unless the SEC expands and I doubt Texas A&M would allow Texas to be invited

See above.

[nawlinspete]

It is apparent that Cow/Dick won; we are not even mentioned, let alone relevant, in all of the latest realignment talk.

Please Tulane, do not retain Cow for another year as 'professor.'

[golfnut69]

Except, golfnut, the Commissioner is Boren, whom you have taking Oklahoma to The B1G or The BIG XII.

not sure where you get your info but the Big 12 commish is Bob Bowlsby....however there is a David Boren who is prez at Oklahoma

[Bearwave]

Tulane could garner an invite if it wins quickly in football. Basketball cannot compete with the Big XII, the ladies would be middle of the pack at best. Baseball could compete for the championship in that conference now. Yulman could be a sticking point but the dome is there for big games (Texas, OU, Baylor, TCU). The biggest selling point right now is the city's location and academic reputation. Since this is an athletic conference, getting better in major sports is a must to be taken seriously.

[golfnut69]

Tulane could garner an invite if it wins quickly in football. Basketball cannot compete with the Big XII, the ladies would be middle of the pack at best. Baseball could compete for the championship in that conference now. Yulman could be a sticking point but the dome is there for big games (Texas, OU, Baylor, TCU). The biggest selling point right now is the city's location and academic reputation. Since this is an athletic conference, getting better in major sports is a must to be taken seriously.

Scheduling Texas and OU into NOLA in the same season is not going to happen, they would come to NOLA in alternate years...Tulane would be looking at using the dome at most two times a year, only if TCU, TX Tech or Baylor travel well enough.. Yulman needs an additional 10 to 12,000 seats...rumor has it the stadium can handle a 10,000 seat expansion in it's current state...note I posted RUMOR, since it came from RD's office...anything over 40 to 42,000 max is a waste of money and the ROI is not there ... TCU and Baylor only seat 45,000 MAX ....

[Bearwave]

Baylor seats a little over 45,000 (not counting suites) and has a berm that seats another 1000. I have been to five games at McLane in the last two years, for TCU, OU, UT games tickets were very hard to find. All home games are sold out with the exception of visitor section. They have almost 3600 prime seats blocked off for the Freshman class every year. The design of the stadium would easily allow for expansion adding another 5-6000 seats but that won't happen anytime soon. It would also take away the view of the campus across the river on the open end with the massive scoreboard.

http://www.baylorbears.com/facilities/mclane.html

My mistake was going to McLane before going to a game at Yulman. It made Yulman seem worse than it actually is. Of course Baylor spent about $120 Million more for their stadium.

[nawlinspete]

Baylor seats a little over 45,000 (not counting suites) and has a berm that seats another 1000. I have been to five games at McLane in the last two years, for TCU, OU, UT games tickets were very hard to find. All home games are sold out with the exception of visitor section. They have almost 3600 prime seats blocked off for the Freshman class every year. The design of the stadium would easily allow for expansion adding another 5-6000 seats but that won't happen anytime soon. It would also take away the view of the campus across the river on the open end with the massive scoreboard.

http://www.baylorbears.com/facilities/mclane.html

My mistake was going to McLane before going to a game at Yulman. It made Yulman seem worse than it actually is. Of course Baylor spent about $120 Million more for their stadium.

No need to apologize. Yulman sucks and never should have been built.