Big XII Expansion

[RobertM320]

Did any of you even read the article?

We're way down the list, and it's not academic powerhouses (BYU and Cinci) that are at the top. If the Big 12 gets the vote needed to have a conference championship game with just 10 teams, they won't expand for the near future anyway. That's our best hope; it gives us time to get our house in order.

http://www.campusrush.com/big-12-confer ... 68401.html

I read the article. Here's the part people tend to dismiss:

Here's an examination of the candidates listed in order of perceived attractiveness. Remember, the margins are slim, and the longer the Big 12 waits to expand the more potential there is for this order to change.

So this is just another speculative article about who's ahead. That being said, they do give some clear information regarding the NCAA vote in January. The way I read it there's a total of 15 votes, so to speak. Each of the votes from the five P5 conferences is worth twice as much as as a vote from the five G5 conferences. They say that three P5 conferences seem to be in favor of letting them have a championship game with a 10 team league, and two against. So that would be 6-4 in favor. So only two of the G5 conferences have to vote in favor for the proposal to pass, 8-7. I would think that CUSA and the Sunbelt for sure have no reason to push the Big XII to expand now, because they have no teams capable of jumping. Its possible the AAC would vote against it, because we have several teams that would be in the mix should expansion be forced upon the Big XII. I also think that most G5 schools would want the status quo to remain as long as possible, to give them a chance to get in the conversation if possible . If you force expansion, that may very well be the end and lock everyone else in as second tier forever.

[RobertM320]

And another question is, who makes the decision for any given conference? For example, the AAC. Is it Aresco, or is it a vote of the University presidents? Aresco would probably want to keep the AAC intact, so voting in favor of the proposal. How would the presidents vote, though?

[jonathanjoseph]

We'd be a bigger bottom feeder in the Big 12 than we are in the AAC. And right now we're really cleaning the bottom of the tank in the AAC. Let's face it, AS WE STAND TODAY we are not an attractive target for P5 expansion. The rest of the country would wonder why a conference wanted a University that hasn't been competitive most of this century and has a small fan base in a mid sized market. And that's putting it politely.

Academics mean NOTHING when a conference looks to expand. Is New Orleans a recruiting hotbed? Yes, but not the top one in the country. It's all about dollars and sense, and right now we bring no dollars and make no sense. Win for the next three or four years, and that can change in a hurry (see Baylor, TCU). But with a tiny fan base and no recent success, we're on the outside looking in.

Well, yes, as we stand today we are not attractive. Duh. But everything has changed in a matter of weeks and our momentum is headed upwards with a quickness.

Meanwhile, yes academics matter. Presidents are involved in expansion discussions, not just ADs.

[jonathanjoseph]

We'd be a bigger bottom feeder in the Big 12 than we are in the AAC. And right now we're really cleaning the bottom of the tank in the AAC. Let's face it, AS WE STAND TODAY we are not an attractive target for P5 expansion. The rest of the country would wonder why a conference wanted a University that hasn't been competitive most of this century and has a small fan base in a mid sized market. And that's putting it politely.

Academics mean NOTHING when a conference looks to expand. Is New Orleans a recruiting hotbed? Yes, but not the top one in the country. It's all about dollars and sense, and right now we bring no dollars and make no sense. Win for the next three or four years, and that can change in a hurry (see Baylor, TCU). But with a tiny fan base and no recent success, we're on the outside looking in.

The notion the academics mean nothing in regard to expansion is pretty silly. Look at the latest round of expansion for evidence to the contrary (Colorado, Utah, Texas A&M, Missouri, Notre Dame, TCU, Rutgers, Maryland, etc.). Louisville was added in response to the unexpected loss of Maryland, and West Virginia was the best of what was left when the Big 12 needed to expand.

Then Rice is ahead of us. And oh by the way, Notre Dame is an independent in football.

Keep telling yourself that Tulane academics are going to get Tulane athletics into a power conference. Maybe it will come true.

Louisville is a great case in point. Their academics can't hold a candle to UConn, yet they got into the ACC while UConn did not. Why? Because Louisville had a better track record of winning football, which meant a bigger fan base.

No, Rice is not ahead of us because they are already in that TV market. So actually Rice doesn't even make the list.

It's not a zero sum game. No one is suggesting academics alone are getting an invite. What people are saying is that it's very relevant if the athletics is attractive.

[golfnut69]

Did any of you even read the article?

We're way down the list, and it's not academic powerhouses (BYU and Cinci) that are at the top. If the Big 12 gets the vote needed to have a conference championship game with just 10 teams, they won't expand for the near future anyway. That's our best hope; it gives us time to get our house in order.

http://www.campusrush.com/big-12-confer ... 68401.html

The Big 12 is not going to invite BYU.... their location is a nightmare, the Big 12 would then have 4 time zones, and many do not like the "Missions" exemptions...Cincy makes sense because of it's location to West Virginia, but is not a really big TV market...Colorado State makes sense because they would be a natural fit for a Northern division and bring the Denver market...Memphis makes some sense since relatively speaking they fit with Cincy and WVU and bring the Memphis TV market and are an easy drive for several of the existing Big 12 schools....most schools in Texas do not want Houston, because quite frankly, they are scared krapless if they were admitted and had P5 money to spend and that goes for Oklahoma and Oklahoma State since about 85 percent of the roster is from Texas....UCF and USF open a totally new can of worms, simply because of geography, who do they fit with ?...do you expand and form 4 divisions of 4 teams each with interlocking schedules and the champ, in the form of best interplay percentage say the SE vs SW division meeting the champ of the NE vs NW division for the championship ?

[jonathanjoseph]

Did any of you even read the article?

We're way down the list, and it's not academic powerhouses (BYU and Cinci) that are at the top. If the Big 12 gets the vote needed to have a conference championship game with just 10 teams, they won't expand for the near future anyway. That's our best hope; it gives us time to get our house in order.

http://www.campusrush.com/big-12-confer ... 68401.html

The Big 12 is not going to invite BYU.... their location is a nightmare, the Big 12 would then have 4 time zones, and many do not like the "Missions" exemptions...Cincy makes sense because of it's location to West Virginia, but is not a really big TV market...Colorado State makes sense because they would be a natural fit for a Northern division and bring the Denver market...Memphis makes some sense since relatively speaking they fit with Cincy and WVU and bring the Memphis TV market and are an easy drive for several of the existing Big 12 schools....most schools in Texas do not want Houston, because quite frankly, they are scared krapless if they were admitted and had P5 money to spend and that goes for Oklahoma and Oklahoma State since about 85 percent of the roster is from Texas....UCF and USF open a totally new can of worms, simply because of geography, who do they fit with ?...do you expand and form 4 divisions of 4 teams each with interlocking schedules and the champ, in the form of best interplay percentage say the SE vs SW division meeting the champ of the NE vs NW division for the championship ?

Which is a verbose way of saying if Tulane can make it's athletic program worthy of an invite it might shoot up that list pretty quick.

[GreenLantern]

I realize that I am bumping a very old thread, but I found this article of particular interest:

Link to SI article "Is the Big 12 on the verge of expansion?"

All of the usual suspects are mentioned. According to the article:

• Cincinnati seems to be the most likely choice.
• BYU is said to have 'issues' such as geography, problem with Sunday games, and their established BYUtv network.
• UConn is mentioned as a strong candidate except for their poor (non-existent) football program.
• Houston's negative is said to be that the other Texas schools don't want to 'prop up another Texas competitor'.
• UCF and USF are said to be 'not in the discussion'.
• Mention is made of the improving Memphis football program but their academics are suspect.
• Finally, Tulane is mentioned with the inherent strengths of location and academics. The downsides are (of course) the recent football record and the fact that we are very close to the shadow of an unfriendly, upstream, redneck (my words) Neighbor[/size].

[golfnut69]

I realize that I am bumping a very old thread, but I found this article of particular interest:

Link to SI article "Is the Big 12 on the verge of expansion?"

All of the usual suspects are mentioned. According to the article:

• Cincinnati seems to be the most likely choice.
• BYU is said to have 'issues' such as geography, problem with Sunday games, and their established BYUtv network.
• UConn is mentioned as a strong candidate except for their poor (non-existent) football program.
• Houston's negative is said to be that the other Texas schools don't want to 'prop up another Texas competitor'.
• UCF and USF are said to be 'not in the discussion'.
• Mention is made of the improving Memphis football program but their academics are suspect.
• Finally, Tulane is mentioned with the inherent strengths of location and academics. The downsides are (of course) the recent football record and the fact that we are very close to the shadow of an unfriendly, upstream, redneck (my words) Neighbor.

The link provided was on page 16 of this discussion

[GreenLantern]

The link provided was on page 16 of this discussion

I humble myself with the sincerest apologies.

[golfnut69]

The link provided was on page 16 of this discussion

I humble myself with the sincerest apologies.

no need to apologize....have a wonderful New Years !!!

[winwave]

Expansion took a hit as the Big 12 got their rule change passed. They can have a championship game while only having 10 teams. The upside is it gives us more time to prove we are worthy.

[RobertM320]

Expansion took a hit as the Big 12 got their rule change passed. They can have a championship game while only having 10 teams. The upside is it gives us more time to prove we are worthy.

Yes, I definitely think this worked in our favor. Otherwise, if they were forced to add teams, we wouldn't be in the mix. I think if we can buy two years, enough for Fritz to take us to two bowls, a new HC in basketball, along with a couple of postseasons in baseball and Womens BBall, and some facility upgrade announcements, we may be more attractive.

[ajcalhoun]

Expansion took a hit as the Big 12 got their rule change passed. They can have a championship game while only having 10 teams. The upside is it gives us more time to prove we are worthy.

Yes, I definitely think this worked in our favor. Otherwise, if they were forced to add teams, we wouldn't be in the mix. I think if we can buy two years, enough for Fritz to take us to two bowls, a new HC in basketball, along with a couple of postseasons in baseball and Womens BBall, and some facility upgrade announcements, we may be more attractive.

Agreed, this buys us some time. I do however think that the Big XII got snookered by the compromise and Oklahoma is not happy about it. I've never thought that the Big XII had a rosy future and I think the OU to SEC rumblings will become louder. While I'm peeing in everybody's Cheerios, I'll also mention that I think if CWF takes us to Bowls in '16 and '17 he will be a gone pecan in '18.

[golfnut69]

Expansion took a hit as the Big 12 got their rule change passed. They can have a championship game while only having 10 teams. The upside is it gives us more time to prove we are worthy.

Yes, I definitely think this worked in our favor. Otherwise, if they were forced to add teams, we wouldn't be in the mix. I think if we can buy two years, enough for Fritz to take us to two bowls, a new HC in basketball, along with a couple of postseasons in baseball and Womens BBall, and some facility upgrade announcements, we may be more attractive.

Agreed, this buys us some time. I do however think that the Big XII got snookered by the compromise and Oklahoma is not happy about it. I've never thought that the Big XII had a rosy future and I think the OU to SEC rumblings will become louder. While I'm peeing in everybody's Cheerios, I'll also mention that I think if CWF takes us to Bowls in '16 and '17 he will be a gone pecan in '18.

Let's go to the video.... http://www.si.com/college-football/vide ... 12-members

I will also post that if OU wants to be included in the SEC, they will be the second coming of Arkansas, on occasion, they will be invited to eat at the adult table....I mean c'mon, U barely get by Tennessee and lose to Texas ?!?!?!?

[jonathanjoseph]

Expansion took a hit as the Big 12 got their rule change passed. They can have a championship game while only having 10 teams. The upside is it gives us more time to prove we are worthy.

Yes, I definitely think this worked in our favor. Otherwise, if they were forced to add teams, we wouldn't be in the mix. I think if we can buy two years, enough for Fritz to take us to two bowls, a new HC in basketball, along with a couple of postseasons in baseball and Womens BBall, and some facility upgrade announcements, we may be more attractive.

Agreed, this buys us some time. I do however think that the Big XII got snookered by the compromise and Oklahoma is not happy about it. I've never thought that the Big XII had a rosy future and I think the OU to SEC rumblings will become louder. While I'm peeing in everybody's Cheerios, I'll also mention that I think if CWF takes us to Bowls in '16 and '17 he will be a gone pecan in '18.

Don't be so sure. We have Dannen, Pierce, NOLA and the opportunity to build one's own legacy. When it was Cowen and Dickson, of course someone would go running at the first opportunity. Now, if the money is close, nothing is so certain. See what Houston is doing with Hermann.

[nawlinspete]

Calm down guys. Let's take it one win a week at a time ! !

[ajcalhoun]

See what Houston is doing with Hermann.

So far all Houston has done is to get Hermann to stay for a second year. P5 money will win out eventually.

[HoustonWave]

Expansion took a hit as the Big 12 got their rule change passed. They can have a championship game while only having 10 teams. The upside is it gives us more time to prove we are worthy.

Yes, I definitely think this worked in our favor. Otherwise, if they were forced to add teams, we wouldn't be in the mix. I think if we can buy two years, enough for Fritz to take us to two bowls, a new HC in basketball, along with a couple of postseasons in baseball and Womens BBall, and some facility upgrade announcements, we may be more attractive.

Agreed, this buys us some time. I do however think that the Big XII got snookered by the compromise and Oklahoma is not happy about it. I've never thought that the Big XII had a rosy future and I think the OU to SEC rumblings will become louder. While I'm peeing in everybody's Cheerios, I'll also mention that I think if CWF takes us to Bowls in '16 and '17 he will be a gone pecan in '18.

Don't be so sure. We have Dannen, Pierce, NOLA and the opportunity to build one's own legacy. When it was Cowen and Dickson, of course someone would go running at the first opportunity. Now, if the money is close, nothing is so certain. See what Houston is doing with Hermann.

On the hope that Dannen, Tulane, and especially high-heeled Tulane alums (who will have to foot the Fritz bill) are willing to pay the freight, the key to keeping Fritz long term may well rest in how much he and his family enjoy living in N.O. If they get hooked on N.O., then I think we have a good chance of keeping him.

[ExileWave]

Expansion took a hit as the Big 12 got their rule change passed. They can have a championship game while only having 10 teams. The upside is it gives us more time to prove we are worthy.

Yes, I definitely think this worked in our favor. Otherwise, if they were forced to add teams, we wouldn't be in the mix. I think if we can buy two years, enough for Fritz to take us to two bowls, a new HC in basketball, along with a couple of postseasons in baseball and Womens BBall, and some facility upgrade announcements, we may be more attractive.

Agreed, this buys us some time. I do however think that the Big XII got snookered by the compromise and Oklahoma is not happy about it. I've never thought that the Big XII had a rosy future and I think the OU to SEC rumblings will become louder. While I'm peeing in everybody's Cheerios, I'll also mention that I think if CWF takes us to Bowls in '16 and '17 he will be a gone pecan in '18.

Don't be so sure. We have Dannen, Pierce, NOLA and the opportunity to build one's own legacy. When it was Cowen and Dickson, of course someone would go running at the first opportunity. Now, if the money is close, nothing is so certain. See what Houston is doing with Hermann.

On the hope that Dannen, Tulane, and especially high-heeled Tulane alums (who will have to foot the Fritz bill) are willing to pay the freight, the key to keeping Fritz long term may well rest in how much he and his family enjoy living in N.O. If they get hooked on N.O., then I think we have a good chance of keeping him.

+1

[JerseyWave]

There will be another round of conference expansion in a few years. The Big 12 will probably expand by two, maybe four. 10 team exemption for a conference playoff buys time for Tulane to get its house in order. They know we are out there. Dannen's mentor knows Tulane is a sleeping Giant. The Force is Awakening!!! When Texas is ready for expansion, (they control the conference) Tulane will be ready.

[golfnut69]

There will be another round of conference expansion in a few years. The Big 12 will probably expand by two, maybe four. 10 team exemption for a conference playoff buys time for Tulane to get its house in order. They know we are out there. Dannen's mentor knows Tulane is a sleeping Giant. The Force is Awakening!!! When Texas is ready for expansion, (they control the conference) Tulane will be ready.

I agree the Big 12 will expand...they have been given a reprieve, so they do not have to make a knee jerk decision, as they did with West Virginia. splitting into two 5 team divisions is a joke...with the cross over games they run the greater possibility of the same two teams meeting for the championship that played in the regular season.... Team A and Team B play in the first regular season league game...A wins the game but begins to tank as the season goes on...team B hit sits stride a mauling everyone...but since they are in different divisions they have to play team A for the "championship'.... team A is not in the top 25 but now have all of their players who were injured during the year back.... Team A pulls the upset...so much for team B being in the final 4

[tpstulane]

Interesting take on the AAC
http://www.news-press.com/story/sports/ ... &autologin

[ajcalhoun]

splitting into two 5 team divisions is a joke...with the cross over games they run the greater possibility of the same two teams meeting for the championship that played in the regular season.... Team A and Team B play in the first regular season league game...A wins the game but begins to tank as the season goes on...team B hit sits stride a mauling everyone...but since they are in different divisions they have to play team A for the "championship'.... team A is not in the top 25 but now have all of their players who were injured during the year back.... Team A pulls the upset...so much for team B being in the final 4

Golf, you've got your information wrong. They are not splitting into two divisions. They will play a round-robin schedule and the two teams with the best records will meet in Championship Game. Yes, it is guaranteed to be a rematch, but the scenario you proposed will never come to pass.

[golfnut69]

splitting into two 5 team divisions is a joke...with the cross over games they run the greater possibility of the same two teams meeting for the championship that played in the regular season.... Team A and Team B play in the first regular season league game...A wins the game but begins to tank as the season goes on...team B hit sits stride a mauling everyone...but since they are in different divisions they have to play team A for the "championship'.... team A is not in the top 25 but now have all of their players who were injured during the year back.... Team A pulls the upset...so much for team B being in the final 4

Golf, you've got your information wrong. They are not splitting into two divisions. They will play a round-robin schedule and the two teams with the best records will meet in Championship Game. Yes, it is guaranteed to be a rematch, but the scenario you proposed will never come to pass.

I agree, but I never said they would be splitting into two divisions... I wrote that spitting into two 5 team divisions is a joke...I do not see the Big 12 having a Championship game until they expand to at least 12 teams.... There is zero need at present for one, except for the added TV bucks and with that comes the issue of Team A and Team B all over again...if this was last season Oklahoma would be playing OK State in the Championship game, a team that just beat a week prior...do you think OU would want that ?...Do you think TV would want that ?

[RobertM320]

Interesting take on the AAC
http://www.news-press.com/story/sports/ ... &autologin

And not so terribly off base, either. I would think it would take legal action for the P5 conference to accept the AAC as a 6th power conference no matter how good the teams get. Even if we reached a point of being equal as far as strength and rankings. However, if the TV money were comparable would that even matter? It would matter I think because the general public perception of the AAC being equal would only come about if they actually became a P6 conference. And we all know perception = reality.