Visualizing the education bubble

Discuss anything else athletic or non-athletic related that doesn't belong on the main Tulane athletics forum.
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jonathanjoseph
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Anyone who doesn't think Tulane's stratospheric tuition is a major problem is going to find out otherwise. What does Tulane offer that can justify its costs?

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jonathanjoseph wrote:Anyone who doesn't think Tulane's stratospheric tuition is a major problem is going to find out otherwise. What does Tulane offer that can justify its costs?

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JJ economics is not a one sided endeavor. You show the rise in cost for education but fail to show what makes for the rise (supply and demand).
The data is clear," said Anthony P. Carnevale, the center's director and co-author of the report. "The demand for college-educated workers is growing much faster than the supply. In recession and recovery, we remain fixated on the high school jobs that are lost and not coming back. We are hurtling into a future dominated by college-level jobs unprepared."
http://www.usnewsuniversitydirectory.co ... 2XDNmdOW70

I suggest in the future you research the whole idea as opposed to the part that fits your beliefs.

Thanks for playing. :mrgreen:
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Dr. Rosenrosen
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JJ economics is not a one sided endeavor. You show the rise in cost for education but fail to show what makes for the rise (supply and demand).

Yes, but there are thousands of schools that do not charge $63K annually for said education. And those that do are generally ranked among the elite.
jonathanjoseph
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Green Wave wrote:
JJ economics is not a one sided endeavor. You show the rise in cost for education but fail to show what makes for the rise (supply and demand).
The data is clear," said Anthony P. Carnevale, the center's director and co-author of the report. "The demand for college-educated workers is growing much faster than the supply. In recession and recovery, we remain fixated on the high school jobs that are lost and not coming back. We are hurtling into a future dominated by college-level jobs unprepared."
http://www.usnewsuniversitydirectory.co ... 2XDNmdOW70

I suggest in the future you research the whole idea as opposed to the part that fits your beliefs.

Thanks for playing. :mrgreen:
:lol: :lol: Ok, Mr. Economics professor. Please explain how Tulane's >$60K tuition will be impacted by increasing price deflation.

I'll wait....
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Dr. Rosenrosen wrote:JJ economics is not a one sided endeavor. You show the rise in cost for education but fail to show what makes for the rise (supply and demand).

Yes, but there are thousands of schools that do not charge $63K annually for said education. And those that do are generally ranked among the elite.
Yes and thousands of schools ranked below Tulane too.

Tuition as whole is responding to the demand. If the demand was not there, the enrollment as well as the amount of tuition would reflect that.
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mbawavefan12
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Green Wave wrote:
Dr. Rosenrosen wrote:JJ economics is not a one sided endeavor. You show the rise in cost for education but fail to show what makes for the rise (supply and demand).

Yes, but there are thousands of schools that do not charge $63K annually for said education. And those that do are generally ranked among the elite.
Yes and thousands of schools ranked below Tulane too.

Tuition as whole is responding to the demand. If the demand was not there, the enrollment as well as the amount of tuition would reflect that.
That is really not entirely true, the rise in tuition has to do with ease of capital as much as demand. There is no greater threat to our economy than bad student loan debt. Unfortunately it is very similar to the housing crisis, only not as deeply entrenched and levered within the major banks.
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mbawavefan12 wrote:
Green Wave wrote:
Dr. Rosenrosen wrote:JJ economics is not a one sided endeavor. You show the rise in cost for education but fail to show what makes for the rise (supply and demand).

Yes, but there are thousands of schools that do not charge $63K annually for said education. And those that do are generally ranked among the elite.
Yes and thousands of schools ranked below Tulane too.

Tuition as whole is responding to the demand. If the demand was not there, the enrollment as well as the amount of tuition would reflect that.
That is really not entirely true, the rise in tuition has to do with ease of capital as much as demand. There is no greater threat to our economy than bad student loan debt. Unfortunately it is very similar to the housing crisis, only not as deeply entrenched and levered within the major banks.
Funding is tied to the demand. If there was not a need for jobs then, You would not have the funding.
The Georgetown report shows that about 55 million new job openings will be generated in the next decade. Approximately 24 million of these open positions will be for new jobs, while 31 million openings will be due to baby boomer retirements.

A majority of these new jobs - or 65% - will demand some type of postsecondary education, compared to only 59% in 2010. Specifically, 5 million jobs will require a postsecondary certificate, 7 million will demand an associate's degree, 13 million will mandate a bachelor's degree and 6 million will require a graduate degree.

Higher education will be particularly important for individuals who want to work in fast-growing fields like healthcare, information technology and government, as 80% of jobs in these industries will demand more than a high school diploma.
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mbawavefan12
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Green Wave wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Green Wave wrote:
Dr. Rosenrosen wrote:JJ economics is not a one sided endeavor. You show the rise in cost for education but fail to show what makes for the rise (supply and demand).

Yes, but there are thousands of schools that do not charge $63K annually for said education. And those that do are generally ranked among the elite.
Yes and thousands of schools ranked below Tulane too.

Tuition as whole is responding to the demand. If the demand was not there, the enrollment as well as the amount of tuition would reflect that.
That is really not entirely true, the rise in tuition has to do with ease of capital as much as demand. There is no greater threat to our economy than bad student loan debt. Unfortunately it is very similar to the housing crisis, only not as deeply entrenched and levered within the major banks.
Funding is tied to the demand. If there was not a need for jobs then, You would not have the funding.
The Georgetown report shows that about 55 million new job openings will be generated in the next decade. Approximately 24 million of these open positions will be for new jobs, while 31 million openings will be due to baby boomer retirements.

A majority of these new jobs - or 65% - will demand some type of postsecondary education, compared to only 59% in 2010. Specifically, 5 million jobs will require a postsecondary certificate, 7 million will demand an associate's degree, 13 million will mandate a bachelor's degree and 6 million will require a graduate degree.

Higher education will be particularly important for individuals who want to work in fast-growing fields like healthcare, information technology and government, as 80% of jobs in these industries will demand more than a high school diploma.
Enrollment is not rising at the same rate as the costs tmk. Adding enrollment in education, a non-profit pursuit, should not result in such an increase in cost, this is not a typical capitalistic environment. Not to mention, salaries for said jobs has not risen with the cost of education, which frankly destroys your argument. The amount of bad debt is staggering and bad debt indicates a cost structure that is not sustainable.....for the gov't to simply give out a loan regardless of academic quality and major, is absurd and schools have taken advantage. There is higher demand, which should result inmodest price increases and increased enrollment, instead it has resulted in huge price increases and massive bad debt, that indicates that traditional supply/demand priciples are being ignored. There cost increases also correlate with the endowment obsession, which has nothing to do with demand. i would also argue that college profs are hugely overpaid and many just pile on degrees and the schools are made up of similar folks so they justify the cost increases.

Like some liberal arts prof should be making $150k+ to teach two classes and have the summers off, please.
Dr. Rosenrosen
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i would also argue that college profs are hugely overpaid and many just pile on degrees and the schools are made up of similar folks so they justify the cost increases.

Absolutely. And the key factor here is that administrators remain in hot pursuit of federally- backed student loan dollars. The money is easy for virtually any student (in any program) to obtain and the schools just want more revenue. Therefore, you have mediocre schools charging $40K/year with no end in sight.
JDTulane
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The average Tulane science professor goes through 4 years of undergrad, maybe a 2 year masters, 5 years of PhD, and 4 years of Post Doc. All of which at either no salary or at most 45k as a post doc.

So that's roughly 13-15 years of education. Explain to me how that person is overpaid? Especially when you consider a lot of the grants these professors get pay part of their salary so the university doesn't have to? I think claiming professors are overpaid is insanity. It's like claiming doctors are overpaid. Oh wait, most professors are doctors ;]
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mbawavefan12
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JDTulane wrote:The average Tulane science professor goes through 4 years of undergrad, maybe a 2 year masters, 5 years of PhD, and 4 years of Post Doc. All of which at either no salary or at most 45k as a post doc.

So that's roughly 13-15 years of education. Explain to me how that person is overpaid? Especially when you consider a lot of the grants these professors get pay part of their salary so the university doesn't have to? I think claiming professors are overpaid is insanity. It's like claiming doctors are overpaid. Oh wait, most professors are doctors ;]
Just because someone spends a ton of time/money on a given persuit, does not mean they are entitled to a salary that is correlated to their personal sacrafices, it's about what value they provide. The fact that there is so much bad debt indicates that the model is flawed. Again bad stdent loan debt is a major threat to our economy and this cannot be debated. Why is it that this reality has occured?
Dr. Rosenrosen
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I certainly would not make a blanket statement that professors are overpaid, but there are many tenured, six-figure PHDs at universities nationwide who produce very little. The bloated salaries of said faculty and administrators are at a minimum partially to blame for today's astronomical tuitions and corresponding student loan debts.
jonathanjoseph
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Green Wave wrote:
mbawavefan12 wrote:
Green Wave wrote:
Dr. Rosenrosen wrote:JJ economics is not a one sided endeavor. You show the rise in cost for education but fail to show what makes for the rise (supply and demand).

Yes, but there are thousands of schools that do not charge $63K annually for said education. And those that do are generally ranked among the elite.
Yes and thousands of schools ranked below Tulane too.

Tuition as whole is responding to the demand. If the demand was not there, the enrollment as well as the amount of tuition would reflect that.
That is really not entirely true, the rise in tuition has to do with ease of capital as much as demand. There is no greater threat to our economy than bad student loan debt. Unfortunately it is very similar to the housing crisis, only not as deeply entrenched and levered within the major banks.
Funding is tied to the demand. If there was not a need for jobs then, You would not have the funding.
The Georgetown report shows that about 55 million new job openings will be generated in the next decade. Approximately 24 million of these open positions will be for new jobs, while 31 million openings will be due to baby boomer retirements.

A majority of these new jobs - or 65% - will demand some type of postsecondary education, compared to only 59% in 2010. Specifically, 5 million jobs will require a postsecondary certificate, 7 million will demand an associate's degree, 13 million will mandate a bachelor's degree and 6 million will require a graduate degree.

Higher education will be particularly important for individuals who want to work in fast-growing fields like healthcare, information technology and government, as 80% of jobs in these industries will demand more than a high school diploma.
Not sure where these numbers are coming from, but there is certainly not a rising demand for undergraduate degrees across the board. The demand for liberal arts majors are crumbling while the demand for CS grads is skyrocketing. Tulane/Cowen has doubled down and focused Tulane on the majors that are crumbling.

The correct analysis would measure Tulane's tuition in comparison to the demand for/salaries for graduates of the majors Tulane offers. That would be an ugly picture.
jonathanjoseph
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JDTulane wrote:The average Tulane science professor goes through 4 years of undergrad, maybe a 2 year masters, 5 years of PhD, and 4 years of Post Doc. All of which at either no salary or at most 45k as a post doc.

So that's roughly 13-15 years of education. Explain to me how that person is overpaid? Especially when you consider a lot of the grants these professors get pay part of their salary so the university doesn't have to? I think claiming professors are overpaid is insanity. It's like claiming doctors are overpaid. Oh wait, most professors are doctors ;]
It's called supply and demand.
wavemania
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Not to worry about sending my kid to Tulane. If the Professors are like Melissa Harris Perry or James Carville, with the crap they are throwing out, I don't want my son attending a University with a one-sided agenda
JDTulane
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wavemania wrote:Not to worry about sending my kid to Tulane. If the Professors are like Melissa Harris Perry or James Carville, with the crap they are throwing out, I don't want my son attending a University with a one-sided agenda
MHP is no longer at Tulane. James Carville may be liberal but he's incredibly intelligent and married to a staunch conservative. I'm sure he gives a well rounded education.
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mbawavefan12
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JDTulane wrote:
wavemania wrote:Not to worry about sending my kid to Tulane. If the Professors are like Melissa Harris Perry or James Carville, with the crap they are throwing out, I don't want my son attending a University with a one-sided agenda
MHP is no longer at Tulane. James Carville may be liberal but he's incredibly intelligent and married to a staunch conservative. I'm sure he gives a well rounded education.
I know both teachers had a long waiting list for classes, as a TU grad shouldn't you be happy that there are high demand profs on campus? What if Rush and Hannity were profs, would you send them to TU then?
mbawavefan12
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Dr. Rosenrosen wrote:I certainly would not make a blanket statement that professors are overpaid, but there are many tenured, six-figure PHDs at universities nationwide who produce very little. The bloated salaries of said faculty and administrators are at a minimum partially to blame for today's astronomical tuitions and corresponding student loan debts.
To be clear, I did not make such blanket statements. Even in the business school, many profs are overpaid. I couldn't believe how many of them rely on grad students to teach and complete a ton of their research. I remember teaching a number of classes in the full GWII lecture hall to around 100 students and thinking to myself, what a return TU is getting paying me something like $12/hr.

The thought process that one spends a ton of time in school means really nothing. The fact is that the higher education model is flawed with few checks and balances. Many profs are going to find this out the hard way IMHO......and btw a neuroscience PhD most likely deserves a high salary, just as they could probably get a great salary working in a lab or research group.
JDTulane
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mbawavefan12 wrote:
Dr. Rosenrosen wrote:I certainly would not make a blanket statement that professors are overpaid, but there are many tenured, six-figure PHDs at universities nationwide who produce very little. The bloated salaries of said faculty and administrators are at a minimum partially to blame for today's astronomical tuitions and corresponding student loan debts.
To be clear, I did not make such blanket statements. Even in the business school, many profs are overpaid. I couldn't believe how many of them rely on grad students to teach and complete a ton of their research. I remember teaching a number of classes in the full GWII lecture hall to around 100 students and thinking to myself, what a return TU is getting paying me something like $12/hr.

The thought process that one spends a ton of time in school means really nothing. The fact is that the higher education model is flawed with few checks and balances. Many profs are going to find this out the hard way IMHO......and btw a neuroscience PhD most likely deserves a high salary, just as they could probably get a great salary working in a lab or research group.
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mbawavefan12
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Not kidding, I really think Loyola is in trouble and TU knows it. Could be huge to add parking and space for IPF or new Bball. Also, will be a tangible reminder to TU to make sure they are prepared. Loyola, at the very least IMO, will have to downsize and sell some assets. Their law school remains very viable and I think they have a quality library. However, though their law school remains popular, lawyers are not in demand.....they are really F-ed IMHO.
Dr. Rosenrosen
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Their law school remains very viable and I think they have a quality library. However, though their law school remains popular, lawyers are not in demand.....they are really F-ed IMHO.
Last edited by Dr. Rosenrosen on Thu May 08, 2014 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
mbawavefan12
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Dr. Rosenrosen wrote:Their law school remains very viable and I think they have a quality library. However, though their law school remains popular, lawyers are not in demand.....they are really F-ed IMHO.

I wouldn't go that far. They take virtually anyone and their rankings are abysmal. They are in trouble.
Locally it feels like they are respected and have a presence as I always am meeting people who went there. It was more of a gut feeling as I do think there are people who want to go to law school in a fun/warm place and either can't get into TU or want a cheaper option.
jonathanjoseph
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mbawavefan12 wrote:
Dr. Rosenrosen wrote:Their law school remains very viable and I think they have a quality library. However, though their law school remains popular, lawyers are not in demand.....they are really F-ed IMHO.

I wouldn't go that far. They take virtually anyone and their rankings are abysmal. They are in trouble.
Locally it feels like they are respected and have a presence as I always am meeting people who went there. It was more of a gut feeling as I do think there are people who want to go to law school in a fun/warm place and either can't get into TU or want a cheaper option.
Loyola's inevitable problems may or may not be a positive for Tulane. Whether or not Tulane can remain viable itself is far from determined.
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GreenLantern
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Where is jj and his alarmist posts about the coming education bubble?

Check out this link: Alarming Stats About the Increasing Cost of College Tuition and the Skyrocketing Growth of Student Loans.
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